Joining Military after residency?

[NeedToStudy]

I know that US IMGs can't do a military residency but what about joining after residency? Is there generally a large demand for board certified Physicians in the military? How hard is it to get in if you haven't through the military's medical school or were in FAP? Is it easier for some specialties than others?

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[NavyFP]

It depends on the specialty. FPs, Surgeons, Psychiatrists. Good chance. Peds, OB, Occ Med....not so much.
It varies year to year. If you apply to join, it can take 6 to 9 months to actually get in.

 

[NeedToStudy]

It depends on the specialty. FPs, Surgeons, Psychiatrists. Good chance. Peds, OB, Occ Med....not so much.
It varies year to year. If you apply to join, it can take 6 to 9 months to actually get in.

Actually that's good. The specialties I'm thinking of are FM, IM (you didn't mention the chances for IM), and Psych. Also can you direct commission into active duty? I've done some research and I'm getting the impression that if you join try to join the military after residency you can only do reserve. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[cgk]

It depends on the specialty. FPs, Surgeons, Psychiatrists. Good chance. Peds, OB, Occ Med....not so much.
It varies year to year. If you apply to join, it can take 6 to 9 months to actually get in.

A friend of mine is finishing a civilian residency in a very small specialty field and has been going through the process of joining active military army as a direct commission/accession for the past 5 months. He went through the MEPS process and failed the hearing test in one ear. My friend was shocked, as he never perceived any hearing difficulties in his 32 years. The MEPS physician recommended a waiver based on the level of impairment in his hearing and the job description he would be doing in his chosen specialty, which apparently is in very great need presently in the army. The MEPS physician assured him that he would get the waiver in approx 1 week. A few weeks later his recruiter informed him that the next level to approve the waiver wants the medical record sent to the surgeon generals office for an audiology consult for an opinion before issuing a waiver. In your honest opinion, do you think this bodes badly for my friend to get the waiver, or do you think the physician simply wants documentation in the file to rubber stamp the waiver? i would think that if the MEP physician could see how the impairment would be a non issues for my friend to do his chosen job he will be hired for, that the audiologist who has seen the gammet of hearing handicaps could surely see it as being a non issue. Your thoughts would bee much appreciated.

 

[pokerslut]

American IMG here; Starting Family Medicine residency in July 2015 and currently applying for AF and Army FAP. Will post back as things progress.

I am also prior military service.

 

[NeedToStudy]

American IMG here; Starting Family Medicine residency in July 2015 and currently applying for AF and Army FAP. Will post back as things progress.

I am also prior military service.

So how's your application going?

 

[IlDestriero]

Actually that's good. The specialties I'm thinking of are FM, IM (you didn't mention the chances for IM), and Psych. Also can you direct commission into active duty? I've done some research and I'm getting the impression that if you join try to join the military after residency you can only do reserve. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong. But you probably figured that out by now. I'm posting to help other readers.

 

[pokerslut]

So how's your application going?

Army said they want me to finish PGY-1 year first. Air Force I am waiting for my interview and day now to get scheduled and then get boarded.

 

[thepoopologist]

I've been turning this over in my mind. I was wondering if it was possible to negotiate a higher rank in some branches? Maybe not straight out of residency, but 1-2 years out of it. Psychiatry here.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

I've been turning this over in my mind. I was wondering if it was possible to negotiate a higher rank in some branches? Maybe not straight out of residency, but 1-2 years out of it. Psychiatry here.

Very possible. A buddy of mine told me about a physician that commissioned directly as an O-4 and went through ODS as a Lieutenant Commander. This is for the Navy but beyond that little quip I do not know the details. Saw his picture along the rest of his ODS class on the picture wall though so I know he actually exists.

 

[backrow]

I've been turning this over in my mind. I was wondering if it was possible to negotiate a higher rank in some branches? Maybe not straight out of residency, but 1-2 years out of it. Psychiatry here.

Yes, rank comes with commensurate experience. If you want LCDR better come with several years of post-GME time, not 1-2 years. I would bet it's like 6-10 years of post-GME but I don't know for sure. There may be an instruction somewhere that covers it.

 

[notdeadyet]

For Army, it's a bit negotiable. Generally, you get one year of credit for every two years of professional experience. So someone with 8 years could potentially negotiate coming in as an O-4.

 

[deuist]

I don't think that it is negotiable in the Air Force. However your years spent in residency and civilian practice do count – typically on a 1:1 basis. In your example, if you did a four-year psychiatry residency and then practiced two years, you could conceivably come in at the rank of major. When I went through officer training school there was a practicing physician who joined at major. If you should commission 12 years after graduating medical school, you could theoretically come in at Lt. Col.

 

[NeedToStudy]

Can somebody coming in straight from residency negotiate his own rank?

 

[Shikima]

Can somebody coming in straight from residency negotiate his own rank?

No.

 

[DeadCactus]

My understanding of the rank issue is more a formula based on years of experience than negotiation. If you're borderline, you might be able to bump to the higher rank but it's not like "I'm Dr. Fancypants, look at my great CV and make me an O5!"

 

[deuist]

My understanding of the rank issue is more a formula based on years of experience than negotiation. If you're borderline, you might be able to bump to the higher rank but it's not like "I'm Dr. Fancypants, look at my great CV and make me an O5!"

And therein lies one of the great frustrations with being a physician in the military. Your rank – and therefore your authority – depend solely upon the number of years that have passed since graduating medical school. It has NOTHING to do with being an excellent physician or leader. You could be a neurosurgeon who performs the world's very first brain transplant and at best you might get an achievement medal to go alongside of your Nobel Prize. What you won't get is a promotion, protected research time, a bigger research budget, lab assistants, or any of the other perks typically associated with doing a great job. What is really frustrating in the Air Force in particular is that no non-flight surgeons can become flag officers. In the example of our world-famous neurosurgeon, if he were to spend 30 years in the Air Force, the highest rank theoretically achievable is Colonel.

 

[NREMTP]

How much in student loans will the AF actually pay when you come in after residency and fellowship and is this negotional as well?

 

[deuist]

How much in student loans will the AF actually pay when you come in after residency and fellowship and is this negotional as well?

The AF will not pay your loans, and there are no parts of the salary or benefits that are negotiable. You can get a signing bonus that you can put toward the loan repayment, however.

 

[jabreal00]

The AF will not pay your loans, and there are no parts of the salary or benefits that are negotiable. You can get a signing bonus that you can put toward the loan repayment, however.

It depends. If someone comes in through FAP, I think they pay $50K/yr for 4 years or so. There is obviously a time obligation owed, active and reserve. However, if just joining via direct accession and not through a scholarship program then one will get their active duty pay and all the other bonuses that physicians are entitled to. I don't even know whether a signing bonus would be given.

 

[TheEarDoc]

A friend of mine is finishing a civilian residency in a very small specialty field and has been going through the process of joining active military army as a direct commission/accession for the past 5 months. He went through the MEPS process and failed the hearing test in one ear. My friend was shocked, as he never perceived any hearing difficulties in his 32 years. The MEPS physician recommended a waiver based on the level of impairment in his hearing and the job description he would be doing in his chosen specialty, which apparently is in very great need presently in the army. The MEPS physician assured him that he would get the waiver in approx 1 week. A few weeks later his recruiter informed him that the next level to approve the waiver wants the medical record sent to the surgeon generals office for an audiology consult for an opinion before issuing a waiver. In your honest opinion, do you think this bodes badly for my friend to get the waiver, or do you think the physician simply wants documentation in the file to rubber stamp the waiver? i would think that if the MEP physician could see how the impairment would be a non issues for my friend to do his chosen job he will be hired for, that the audiologist who has seen the gammet of hearing handicaps could surely see it as being a non issue. Your thoughts would bee much appreciated.

Hmmm interesting. That would be a significant hearing loss if they required a waiver. One that I am sure your friend had to have noticed previously. So either I would say they think he didn't mention it in his health assessment and got busted (which isn't going to go well for him), or they truly want him and decided a full eval in a sound attenuated booth would give them better results than the little screening they do at MEPS run by a tech.

 

[TheEarDoc]

I've been turning this over in my mind. I was wondering if it was possible to negotiate a higher rank in some branches? Maybe not straight out of residency, but 1-2 years out of it. Psychiatry here.

Yes and no. I think you can possibly come in as O-4 rather than O-3 if you have enough civilian years experience. It would take a significant number of years to jump to O-4 as direct commissioned officer over an O-3. I'm guessing at least 10.

 

[deuist]

Yes and no. I think you can possibly come in as O-4 rather than O-3 if you have enough civilian years experience. It would take a significant number of years to jump to O-4 as direct commissioned officer over an O-3. I'm guessing at least 10.

Promotion to O-4 is guaranteed after six years of practice following medical school. Residency counts as medical practice. After another six years, promotion to O-5 is guaranteed in the Air Force. There are doctors that can come in at the rank of Lt. Col. via direct accession as a result.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Why would you ever want to do this?? Just find a dod contract spot or even dod civilian. The highest rank in the military is civilian, and you get paid so much more for the same damn job.