Judging Residency match lists

[somethingpositi]

I've been hearing from SDNers that it's important to look at match lists for medical schools to judge them. I don't know what makes a match list "good." Which specialties are hard to get into? Which schools/residencies are hard to get into? How do you really differentiate between match lists for a school that is ranked, for example, #2 and #20. Are they visibly different?

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[TheRealMD]

Specialties hard to get into are (in no specific order): dermatology, orthopaedics, neurosurgery. Easy lifestyle, nice pay, and few spots each respectively make them hard to get into.

 

[riceman04]

I've been hearing from SDNers that it's important to look at match lists for medical schools to judge them. I don't know what makes a match list "good." Which specialties are hard to get into? Which schools/residencies are hard to get into? How do you really differentiate between match lists for a school that is ranked, for example, #2 and #20. Are they visibly different?

And 90% of the time you will go wrong by NOT taking a SDNers advice with a grain of salt. These people are going through the same process as you and are attempting to impart knowledge as if they are already experienced.

 

[JacobSilge]

Specialties hard to get into are (in no specific order): dermatology, orthopaedics, neurosurgery. Easy lifestyle, nice pay, and few spots each respectively make them hard to get into.

Orthopedic surgery and neurosurgery do NOT have an "easy lifestyle." In fact, neurosurg is one of the hardest. Also very competitive are plastic surgery (most selective), radiation oncology, ENT, opthamology and radiology.

 

[HreComesTheSun]

Orthopedic surgery and neurosurgery do NOT have an "easy lifestyle." In fact, neurosurg is one of the hardest. Also very competitive are plastic surgery (most selective), radiation oncology, ENT, opthamology and radiology.

thank you!! i was going to say, what is he smoking??? unless being in training until you're nearly 40 is considered easy these days

 

[TheRealMD]

Orthopedic surgery and neurosurgery do NOT have an "easy lifestyle." In fact, neurosurg is one of the hardest. Also very competitive are plastic surgery (most selective), radiation oncology, ENT, opthamology and radiology.

Er... that's why I said RESPECTIVELY.

Basically:

Derm - easy lifestyle (40 hr/wk, $200k/year) - you can have a "normal" life.
Ortho - nicely paid
Neruo- few spots, lots of respect.

Definitely neuro and ortho do NOT have easy lifestyles. I just didn't feel like making a list but it looks like I did anyway.

 

[diosa428]

Orthopedic surgery and neurosurgery do NOT have an "easy lifestyle." In fact, neurosurg is one of the hardest. Also very competitive are plastic surgery (most selective), radiation oncology, ENT, opthamology and radiology.

Actually, if you READ what he wrote, the use of the word "respectively" suggests that he meant:
Derm = easy lifestyle
Ortho = good money
Neuro = relatively few spots.

 

[TheRealMD]

Oh, another thing. Residencies closer to your medical school are much more familiar with your program and know what to expect from you. Residencies tend to have a region bias. If you're going to an east coast school, you probably aren't going to go searching for west coast residencies. It's just the nature of the game.

 

[moomix906]

i feel like ive read a billion posts arguing that you actually shouldn't pay much attention to the match list, because your performance is the biggest factor of where you match, except maybe the general location that graduates place. The match list between #2 and #20 are very visibly different, but that's a result of so many factors (the major one being #2 is hopkins), and I think plenty of people will tell you that outside of the the tip top of the rankings, there is not really a quantifiable difference in terms of quality or prestige amongst schools that differ in maybe even up to 20 spots in ranking. Match lists are so dependent on the people who are doing the match - where they want to live, what kind of career they want, blah blah. plus, its so hard to read a match list because as premeds you are really only accustomed to knowing the famous colleges, how do you read a kaiser or a christiana care match?

 

[somethingpositi]

Ok. Sounds like some great comments so far. One more question:

Are there particular schools that have a reputation of matching wherever they want? I know that Yale is supposed to be incredible (their viewbook says that 73% of graduates receive their first choice and 93% receive one of their first three choices). Do schools like Harvard, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, etc have the same reputation?

 

[Vizsla]

Ok. Sounds like some great comments so far. One more question:

Are there particular schools that have a reputation of matching wherever they want? I know that Yale is supposed to be incredible (their viewbook says that 73% of graduates receive their first choice and 93% receive one of their first three choices). Do schools like Harvard, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, etc have the same reputation?

yes..but in my opinion a lot of "reputation" in the medical field comes from the calber of students you graduate. schools like the ones you listed have already selected extremely competent students to attend their institutions, so its no surprise that they have amazing matches yr afte yr. its been said over and over, you MUST put in the work no matter where you go. Its not like someone gets accepted to UPenn and then says "eh, i will just coast and let my schools name take care of things"...these applicants have already shown that they are accomplished students and they are likely to continue that trend in med school. i guess what im trying to say is that the student has a large role to play in what a match list looks like, thus giving the school its reputation for a great match. if you are part of a high performing class in any school, you will undoubtedly have an impressive match.

 

[Instatewaiter]

First of all, reading a match list as a pre-med is like trying to read hieroglyphics. Even as a medical student it is near impossible to know, w/o an advisor, which hospitals have good programs and which have bad ones. That is why you get an advisor.

A lot of the 'top schools' put out impressive match lists year after year. This is not because of prestige but because they have students who perform well on standardized tests and are dedicated to their studies. You can match into any field from any schools. For example Vizla and my school, MCV is a middle of the pack school. In the last match it had 3 people go into plastics and 2 into neurosurg. There are only ~88 spots for plastics and ~77 for neuro so we got more than 'our share.' Your match, in however many years that is, is more likely to be affected by how happy you are at a given school than by what their previous matches were/prestige is.

I feel that looking at match lists is not very productive for pre-meds since the lists are so variable from year to year and a pre-med just can't have the insight to interpret a list.

 

[JacobSilge]

Actually, if you READ what he wrote, the use of the word "respectively" suggests that he meant:
Derm = easy lifestyle
Ortho = good money
Neuro = relatively few spots.

Whoops! I think I'll choose to blame that one on lack of sleep . Actually, I think I got thrown off by the fact that derm has all three and the other two have two of the three. Plus I've always wondered that if the lifestyle of derm is what makes it so competitve, then why aren't fields like Path, Psych, and some of the IM subspecialties like endocrinology and rheumatology competitive? My guess is that other factors like patient population, exposure during med school (and before), and the job itself has more to do with it.

 

[TheRealMD]

Whoops! I think I'll choose to blame that one on lack of sleep . Actually, I think I got thrown off by the fact that derm has all three and the other two have two of the three. Plus I've always wondered that if the lifestyle of derm is what makes it so competitve, then why aren't fields like Path, Psych, and some of the IM subspecialties like endocrinology and rheumatology competitive? My guess is that other factors like patient population, exposure during med school (and before), and the job itself has more to do with it.

Derm is more popular because patients usually pay you upfront for your work instead of needing to go through the system. It's a lot less hassle. Plus, you get to "make people beautiful". Isn't that nice?

 

[Vizsla]

For example Vizla and my school, MCV is a middle of the pack school. In the last match it had 3 people go into plastics and 2 into neurosurg.

also 3 into derm...Im sure we will double these numbers in our match

 

[JacobSilge]

Derm is more popular because patients usually pay you upfront for your work instead of needing to go through the system. It's a lot less hassle. Plus, you get to "make people beautiful". Isn't that nice?

Hmm, interesting. This is probably region dependent, but it seems like in my area most derm practices take medicare and at least a few insurance plans and most do well because of high volume, in office procedures, and an easily planned schedule (few emergencies). And don't most physicians hire people to do their billing anyway so it's not a direct hassle (but rather a hit in income to pay the billing service).