Judicial Affairs Inquiry

[reluctantoptimism]

Hey guys!

I recently was called to my school's judicial affairs body and I'm in the process of dealing with the appropriate parties, When I inquired as to whether an IA would be on my transcript, I as informed that this information is not sent in general but IS sent when it is requested. With the former information considered, am I screwed when it comes to admission?

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[ProudMD]

Hey guys!

I recently was called to my school's judicial affairs body and I'm in the process of dealing with the appropriate parties, When I inquired as to whether an IA would be on my transcript, I as informed that this information is not sent in general but IS sent when it is requested. With the former information considered, am I screwed when it comes to admission?

If that's the case, then it is a reportable IA on the AMCAS.

Now, the nature and severity of your IA is incredibly important. If it is a minor incident like alcohol/noise violation, then you have nothing to worry about. But if it is related to academic dishonesty, then things will be much more serious.

The mere act of REPORTING an IA will NOT keep you from medical school. It all depends on what the IA is about.

If you want to get feedback on the possible impact of this incident, you'll need to provide more details. You can PM me if you don't want to post publicly.

 

[baxt1412]

Ya we would need to know what it concerns to give u any advice beyond yes definitely report it

 

[Goro]

It indeed sounds like an IA, but if you're judged not guilty, then this would not go onto your transcript/file, and it won't be an issue.

I'll give you a warning: if this was about cheating, or an act of violence against someone, and you're found guilty, your medical career is over. Beer in your dorm room? That we can let slide.

PM me if you need to get into details.

Hey guys!

I recently was called to my school's judicial affairs body and I'm in the process of dealing with the appropriate parties, When I inquired as to whether an IA would be on my transcript, I as informed that this information is not sent in general but IS sent when it is requested. With the former information considered, am I screwed when it comes to admission?

 

[ProudMD]

@reluctantoptimism

I just responded to your PM. Read through what I said, and feel free to PM Goro above as well. He is an adcom member and will be able to offer you good advice.

 

[reluctantoptimism]

I responded to you, ProudMD, and I sent a message to Goro as well.

 

[ProudMD]

I responded to you, ProudMD, and I sent a message to Goro as well.

Good luck!

You can contact these individuals as well, they are also adcoms:
@LizzyM
@gyngyn

 

[reluctantoptimism]

Thanks for your input ProudMD and Goro!

 

[ProudMD]

Thanks for your input ProudMD and Goro!

No problem!

Let us know if you have any other questions.

 

[Overanxious]

It indeed sounds like an IA, but if you're judged not guilty, then this would not go onto your transcript/file, and it won't be an issue.

I'll give you a warning: if this was about cheating, or an act of violence against someone, and you're found guilty, your medical career is over. Beer in your dorm room? That we can let slide.

PM me if you need to get into details.

How about a diversion...would that show up? Let's say Overanxious was threatened with an MIP back in the 90's (ignore my posted age). And let's say instead of wanting an MIP on the record Overanxious paid for a diversion...did the community service etc. Supposedly the MIP would be wiped clean following a period of 6 mo without any infractions but does the diversion stay? Or at least that's my understanding of the way it worked. When I applied to undergrad and graduate school no one made any mention of it and it didn't come up on a standard background check but i'm starting to get nervous that Med schools do a more thorough check and it might show up/it may be something i should have reported. Now, technically i was never found guilty of an MIP so i haven't put forth that info.

 

[ProudMD]

How about a diversion...would that show up? Let's say Overanxious was threatened with an MIP back in the 90's (ignore my posted age). And let's say instead of wanting an MIP on the record Overanxious paid for a diversion...did the community service etc. Supposedly the MIP would be wiped clean following a period of 6 mo without any infractions but does the diversion stay? Or at least that's my understanding of the way it worked. When I applied to undergrad and graduate school no one made any mention of it and it didn't come up on a standard background check but i'm starting to get nervous that Med schools do a more thorough check and it might show up/it may be something i should have reported. Now, technically i was never found guilty of an MIP so i haven't put forth that info.

The most detailed background check question that a secondary application can possibly ask would be "have you ever been arrested, charged, or convicted of any crime in your life". Most secondaries, however, don't ask about arrests or even charges.

I am not sure if your situation involved any arrests or charges. And if you truthfully answered the secondary application background check question (if applicable), then I don't really see any problems. Even if this incident comes up during some super extensive background check, you should be alright as long as you disclosed all the information that was asked for. Not disclosing something that was never asked should not be a problem.

 

[Overanxious]

The most detailed background check question that a secondary application can possibly ask would be "have you ever been arrested, charged, or convicted of any crime in your life". Most secondaries, however, don't ask about arrests or even charges.

I am not sure if your situation involved any arrests or charges. And if you truthfully answered the secondary application background check question (if applicable), then I don't really see any problems. Even if this incident comes up during some super extensive background check, you should be alright as long as you disclosed all the information that was asked for. Not disclosing something that was never asked should not be a problem.

Oh i truthfully answered the one 2dary that asked to the best of my knowledge which is NO. No arrest was made, no charges filed (bc of the diversion), and no conviction (bc of the diversion). Now, had i not had a diversion then they would have filed charges and i would have been convicted. It just seems sticky to me and i'd feel more at rest knowing whether or not i answered correctly.

 

[ProudMD]

Oh i truthfully answered the one 2dary that asked to the best of my knowledge which is NO. No arrest was made, no charges filed (bc of the diversion), and no conviction (bc of the diversion). Now, had i not had a diversion then they would have filed charges and i would have been convicted. It just seems sticky to me and i'd feel more at rest knowing whether or not i answered correctly.

It looks like you got nothing to worry about then! As long as you answered the question that was asked, you should be good!

 

[IlDestriero]

My fraternity was in trouble all the time. All the time. The university loved to hand out community service punishment to the fraternities. We always did the same community service at the local food bank. Listing all that community service made me look like a superstar, with a real multi year commitment to my local charity. You just have to put the right spin on it.
-"You really liked volunteering at that food bank."
"Yes, the whole fraternity would go. We were partnered with them for many years. They loved us there. We would do everything from stocking shelves, to picking up donated goods from around the city. I unusually tried to go 50-100 hrs every semester."
Nobody ever asked if it was mandatory or not.

 

[DokterMom]

Oh i truthfully answered the one 2dary that asked to the best of my knowledge which is NO. No arrest was made, no charges filed (bc of the diversion), and no conviction (bc of the diversion). Now, had i not had a diversion then they would have filed charges and i would have been convicted. It just seems sticky to me and i'd feel more at rest knowing whether or not i answered correctly.

Do please check on the 'charges filed' bit. Charges may have been filed, then dismissed; and it's possible there's even a charge or arrest record that needs to be expunged. If you worked with an attorney before, please get him/her involved again now just to be sure.

Much too important to leave to chance, especially considering how little a MIP charge long ago would hurt you, and how much falsely stating that you've never been charged would hurt. The 'technicality' angle ("I thought the charges disappeared entirely" doesn't play well when you're accused of covering up something they asked for very specifically.)

 

[Overanxious]

Do please check on the 'charges filed' bit. Charges may have been filed, then dismissed; and it's possible there's even a charge or arrest record that needs to be expunged. If you worked with an attorney before, please get him/her involved again now just to be sure.

Much too important to leave to chance, especially considering how little a MIP charge long ago would hurt you, and how much falsely stating that you've never been charged would hurt. The 'technicality' angle ("I thought the charges disappeared entirely" doesn't play well when you're accused of covering up something they asked for very specifically.)

True true... I was 15. The least fun i have had not drinking... I was so sassy about it I'm surprised i wasn't arrested. Oof i was like...can i at least drink a beer, if you're going to ticket me... then i feel i should at least earn it. It's a ticket...like a speeding ticket (clearly more serious), they don't haul you in for that, so no arrest you're just made to go home. And i did drive home bc i hadn't been drinking. Are juvenile offenses sealed or expunged? I'll just be sure not to attend the school that asked. Only one secondary asked. But i think I'll get a copy of the background check prior to it going out to schools then i'll know.

The real lesson here though is if you're going to get caught make it worth it. /s

 

[DokterMom]

If a cop just took your beer and sent you home, then it doesn't sound like anything official. Did you have to appear before a judge and go through a bunch of paperwork to officially complete a diversion program? Did you have to check in with a probation officer? With the court? With a court-appointed program of some sort? In other words, how 'official' did things get?

 

[Overanxious]

If a cop just took your beer and sent you home, then it doesn't sound like anything official. Did you have to appear before a judge and go through a bunch of paperwork to officially complete a diversion program? Did you have to check in with a probation officer? With the court? With a court-appointed program of some sort? In other words, how 'official' did things get?

Well i had a written ticket...that was pretty official for me at the time. Went to the judge's office the following week if memory serves right (caught over the weekend). My parents and the judge discussed appropriate punishment. Lot's of community service a hefty fine (i'd be paying) and an alcohol program. I do not recall any paperwork or a probation officer (I feel like i'd remember having to meet with one). Never appeared before the court unless that's what the office meeting with the judge was supposed to be. It's a small town...official isn't really how things are done.

 

[ProudMD]

Well i had a written ticket...that was pretty official for me at the time. Went to the judge's office the following week if memory serves right (caught over the weekend). My parents and the judge discussed appropriate punishment. Lot's of community service a hefty fine (i'd be paying) and an alcohol program. I do not recall any paperwork or a probation officer (I feel like i'd remember having to meet with one). Never appeared before the court unless that's what the office meeting with the judge was supposed to be. It's a small town...official isn't really how things are done.

So it doesn't appear that you were arrested/charged. But you might want to consult a lawyer just to be 100% safe. Can you contact the actual courthouse/judge and ask them?

 

[DokterMom]

Truly, with something this minor, much better safe than sorry... Disclose if asked, double check on the official legalities.

 

[Overanxious]

Really what good would that do? To contact the courthouse, judge (if he's still alive), etc... ? I will gain the knowledge by waiting post Jan 1st to receive the official report prior to it being sent out to schools. What's done is done. Primary is done...secondary is done...and acceptances have been awarded. Sending an update to schools with btw 20 years ago...just sounds ridiculous and unnecessary. My past reports have always been clean but who knows how vigorous those were. I will update post January. I am excited to see how thorough this check will be. But bottom line, even if i call and find out and there is something there the damage is done wouldn't you say? And then...only to schools who asked in the secondary which Pritzker is really the only one that stands out in my mind as having asked.

 

[Snakes]

True true... I was 15. The least fun i have had not drinking... I was so sassy about it I'm surprised i wasn't arrested. Oof i was like...can i at least drink a beer, if you're going to ticket me... then i feel i should at least earn it. It's a ticket...like a speeding ticket (clearly more serious), they don't haul you in for that, so no arrest you're just made to go home. And i did drive home bc i hadn't been drinking.

This is going to be completely state-dependent, but you can definitely be ticketed for a misdemeanor criminal offense in my state and released ROR without being fingerprinted or hauled into the jailhouse. If you don't appear for your arraignment/court date, a bench warrant goes out for you and then you have a lot of other problems, but the ticket itself counts as an arrest. I had to make an appearance for the mother of a friend of mine who was "ticketed" for parking in a handicap space without her disabled mother with them. She thought it was a regular ticket until I took a look at it. It was a criminal citation with an arraignment date, but looked like any other traffic ticket.

Whatever state your situation happened in, its rules for diversion may have allowed you to avoid an arrest altogether, none of us has any way to know, but I would want to find out. Whether or not you follow up on this is, of course, up to you.

 

[Snakes]

By the way, you really should find out either way because it could become an issue when it's time to get licensed eventually. You will definitely have to disclose all in your licensing app if that arrest is out there.

EDITED TO ADD: Since you were a minor when that diversion happened, you might not have to disclose--I really have no idea. But you should follow up.

 

[Overanxious]

By the way, you really should find out either way because it could become an issue when it's time to get licensed eventually. You will definitely have to disclose all in your licensing app if that arrest is out there.

EDITED TO ADD: Since you were a minor when that diversion happened, you might not have to disclose--I really have no idea. But you should follow up.

I'll find out in January when the report comes out. Other than delaying the time necessary to obtain a license it will NOT prevent one from obtaining a license.

 

[Snakes]

I'll find out in January when the report comes out. Other than delaying the time necessary to obtain a license it will NOT prevent one from obtaining a license.

I didn't say it would prevent you from getting a license. Nor should it. But you posted here because you were afraid you should have disclosed it in your med school app. It's the "not disclosing" that's the problem if you were actually arrested, not the arrest itself.

 

[DesertTortoise]

So, I don't know much about IA's or academic dishonesty - but a friend of mine is a freshman in college. Right after school started, he was pretty stressed about being off on his own for the first time, and just adjusting to school, etc. He's a smart guy, ethical, and a strait A honors student (in high school).

The first exam he had in a chem class was an open book, online quiz. One of the questions was short answer - straight out of the book - so he used the answer from the book, since it was an open book quiz. He changed the words slightly, but basically being chem, there weren't really many other ways to answer the question. The next day after submitting the quiz, he got called in by the professor, accused of academic dishonesty (unintentional plagiarism), and told to sign a paper saying he had committed academic dishonesty, and told that this would go on his permanent record. He was completely flustered and devastated, as he had never cheated in his life, and couldn't believe that this was happening. But he was intimidated by the professor and didn't want to argue, so he signed the form. Is this something now that would impact him if he ever wanted to go to medical school? He's still in the class and worried about confronting the professor, because the professor basically said that she could have failed him in the class, but instead chose to give him a zero on the quiz.

Just looking for any advice to pass on to him. I told him it seems ridiculous that the professor didn't just take him aside and talk to him personally - being that he was new to the whole college thing, but not sure what his options are at this point. Thanks.

 

[Overanxious]

I didn't say it would prevent you from getting a license. Nor should it. But you posted here because you were afraid you should have disclosed it in your med school app. It's the "not disclosing" that's the problem if you were actually arrested, not the arrest itself.

You are right...i'm second guessing myself as to whether or not i should have disclosed this information on Pritzker's secondary. Now, after looking back over the primary app the question is have you ever been convicted of a felony or misdemeanor. Clearly the answer is no. So there is no problem with my app at any other school. Pritzker is unique in that they ask about arrests, charges, and convictions as pointed out previously. Thank you all for your input. I believe at this point I should, in fact, have disclosed this to Pritzker. However, I also believe that i am under no obligation to have disclosed this to any other school as they did not ask in such detail.

A diversion agreement shall provide that if the defendant fulfills the obligations of the program described therein, as determined by the attorney general or county or district attorney, such attorney shall act to have the criminal charges against the defendant dismissed with prejudice. In return for successful completion of the program and listed sanctions, the State agrees to drop the participant's criminal charges in that specific case, which enables them to avoid a conviction and ultimately a criminal record.

 

[ProudMD]

So, I don't know much about IA's or academic dishonesty - but a friend of mine is a freshman in college. Right after school started, he was pretty stressed about being off on his own for the first time, and just adjusting to school, etc. He's a smart guy, ethical, and a strait A honors student (in high school).

The first exam he had in a chem class was an open book, online quiz. One of the questions was short answer - straight out of the book - so he used the answer from the book, since it was an open book quiz. He changed the words slightly, but basically being chem, there weren't really many other ways to answer the question. The next day after submitting the quiz, he got called in by the professor, accused of academic dishonesty (unintentional plagiarism), and told to sign a paper saying he had committed academic dishonesty, and told that this would go on his permanent record. He was completely flustered and devastated, as he had never cheated in his life, and couldn't believe that this was happening. But he was intimidated by the professor and didn't want to argue, so he signed the form. Is this something now that would impact him if he ever wanted to go to medical school? He's still in the class and worried about confronting the professor, because the professor basically said that she could have failed him in the class, but instead chose to give him a zero on the quiz.

Just looking for any advice to pass on to him. I told him it seems ridiculous that the professor didn't just take him aside and talk to him personally - being that he was new to the whole college thing, but not sure what his options are at this point. Thanks.

This incident will have to be reported on the AMCAS application.

The good news is that a minor incident of UNINTENTIONAL plagiarism during freshman year is not going to have a lethal effect. Not all academic honesty violations are viewed equally, and your friend's incident is probably the most minor form of academic "dishonesty" there can be. Given the circumstances that you just described and the fact that your friend had absolutely no malicious intent, I doubt that this incident will significantly harm his medical school prospects.

 

[DesertTortoise]

This incident will have to be reported on the AMCAS application.

The good news is that a minor incident of UNINTENTIONAL plagiarism during freshman year is not going to have a lethal effect. Not all academic honesty violations are viewed equally, and your friend's incident is probably the most minor form of academic "dishonesty" there can be. Given the circumstances that you just described and the fact that your friend had absolutely no malicious intent, I doubt that this incident will significantly harm his medical school prospects.

Thank you. I'll let him know - I think that will make him feel better. It just seemed unreasonable for a minor issue like this to go on his academic record, given the circumstances. Now he's worried about answering ANY short answer questions. He says he doesn't use the book now ever when taking a quiz, and he's getting an A (even with the zero on the first quiz) in the class.

 

[Overanxious]

As a followup...should anyone require this information or wish to know for their own peace of mind and/or may help when deciding what to disclose on a medical school application. Taken from the Certiphi background check.

Felonies:
Have you ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a Felony crime, excluding 1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, or 2) convictions which have been expunged or sealed by a court (in states where applicable)?

You need NOT disclose any instance where you:
were arrested but not charged;
were arrested and charged, but the charges were dropped;
were arrested and charged, but found not guilty by a judge or jury;
were arrested and found guilty by a judge or jury, but the conviction was overturned on appeal; or
received an executive pardon.

Misdemeanors:
Have you ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a Misdemeanor crime, excluding 1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, 2) any convictions which have been expunged or sealed by a court, or 3) any misdemeanor convictions for which any probation has been completed and the case dismissed by the court (in states where applicable)?

You need NOT disclose any instance where you:
were arrested but not charged;
were arrested and charged, but the charges were dropped;
were arrested and charged, but found not guilty by a judge or jury;
were arrested and found guilty by a judge or jury, but the conviction was overturned on appeal; or
received an executive pardon.