Just be honest, was I right in applying anyway?

[TulaneUnderdog]

I am so committed to putting my whole life in being a doctor that I can willingly wait my whole life, although with astronomical amounts of impatience, since being a doctor is a lifetime endeavor anyway that makes holding a year back insignificant, but it is very significant for me.

As a result, I decided to apply this year while still in college trying to frantically increase my GPA. I know I could do much more when I graduated so I'm not afraid of trying to do so this year, but consequently, I forgot to ask the professors to write me a letter of recommendation the year before when I was so immersed in doing so well in their class that I forgot to do the most important thing that I was too myopic to notice. The bonus is that I can perform better in my senior year and have a more meaningful letter with the professors in my senior year.

I have only applied only within my home state (Louisiana) because I also cannot consider any other state as my home whatsoever. That means both LSUs are the only colleges I applied with a "reach" Tulane because a guy can dream right?

Now here's the issue. My LoRs will NOT be written till November which is a month before the deadline. but I DID RECEIVE 2ndary applications that I will fill out much sooner. LSU has explicitly stated that they will not REVIEW these applications until LORS ARE RECEIVED.

This has cut my chances by a lot, that is a mistake that I will acknowledge because I not only want to be a doctor but I want to also be a worthy applicant who doers not beg for mercy, only retribution to build character. BUT it did not hurt to apply this year's cycle regardless other than it hurting my wallet? It was still worth applying rather than living a full year wondering if I still had a chance or not? Am I correct on this? My definition of what's worth it is this: If it was enriching to me, if my chances were still "viable" even though it was sharply cut by the delay (By viable i mean I had about still at least a 10% chance rather than 0.01% where the AdCom still was considering me for at least a minute rather than discarding it altogether because it was just too late).

If you want more information on my stats: 28 MCAT, 3.6cGPA, 100 hours hosptial Volunteer, same number hours for Radiologist Shadowing, and 50 hours of tutoring.

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[V5RED]

I'm willing to be a reapplicant, but we all know the feeling where you truly realize that being a doctor is what you dream of being and all you ever wanted to be so you rather apply now rather than put off a year.

On the other hand, I am so committed to putting my whole life in being a doctor that I am willing to wait my whole life as well since it's a lifetime endeavor that I can endure even after I hardly can lift a scalpel.

I have only applied only within my home state (Louisiana) because I also cannot consider any other state as my home whatsoever. That means both LSUs are the only colleges I applied with a "reach" Tulane because a guy can dream right?

Now here's the issue. My LoRs will NOT be written till November which is a month before the deadline. but I DID RECEIVE 2ndary applications that I will fill out much sooner. LSU has explicitly stated that they will not REVIEW these applications until LORS ARE RECEIVED.

This has cut my chances by a lot, that is a mistake that I will acknowledge because I not only want to be a doctor but I want to also be a worthy applicant who doers not beg for mercy, only retribution to build character. BUT it did not hurt to apply this year's cycle regardless other than it hurting my wallet? Am I correct on this?

If you want more information on my stats: 28 MCAT, 3.6cGPA, 100 hours hosptial Volunteer, same number hours for Radiologist Shadowing, and 50 hours of tutoring.

A few things stand out to me as disconcerting or incongruous.

You imply that if you never get an acceptance, you will spend the rest of your life applying each year. It seems somewhat disconcerting that you would be so set on medicine that you would refuse to do anything else if you got a hard no.

Your reasoning for only applying to Louisiana schools is poor for a multitude of reasons and is incongruous with your "medicine at any cost" theme. Going to medical school outside of Louisiana does not mean that you cannot return to Louisiana for your residence, and going to medical school in Louisiana does not guarantee you a residency in Louisiana.

Why are your LoR's so late? Did you wait until recently last minute to ask for them? If so, why?

Being a reapplicant is not a good thing. You will need to show improvement over the last cycle, especially at schools you previously applied to. Since you already applied to all Louisiana schools, you will need to show them why you are a better candidate the second time if they reject you this cycle.

All that aside, based on the MSAR, your stats are below average for all the schools you applied to, and unless you have more ECs than what you listed, you aren't really bringing much to the table to get an acceptance. You are actually closer to the average DO matriculant [+.08GPA, +1MCAT (3.52/27)] than the average MD matriculant [-.09 GPA, -3.3 MCAT (3.69/31.3)]

 

[TulaneUnderdog]

It seems somewhat disconcerting that you would be so set on medicine that you would refuse to do anything else if you got a hard no.

Why did you get the assumption that I would lazily sit after a rejection rather than be emotionally motivated by it? I never said anything that implies that I would stop putting every fiber in my being towards improvement in an effort to prove the committee that I am in fact viable. I don't know how you painted yourself the worst image of an applicant who just sits around when I just said that I acknowledged my mistakes and make every effort to prove them afterwards. And no, I "won't refuse to do anything else" which I don't know how you derived that as well; what I would do instead is a Master's Program or 500 hours of research especially since I'm still in the process of graduating with Neuroscience and I will have so much time on my hands which you ignorantly assume that I would be inspired to use for nothing else but just sitting around?

Your reasoning for only applying to Louisiana schools is poor for a multitude of reasons and is incongruous with your "medicine at any cost" theme.

It's not incongruous with "medicine at any cost" if I'm getting preferential treatment inside my own state by public state schools that only accept 2% out of state applicants, and there is no such preference to me anywhere else so thank you for encouraging me to make my situation bleaker by living as a non-state resident in another state that would take years to develop residency for rather than live in the state that I already spent my whole life in and have so much friends and family within (YOU SURE GIVE OUT THE MOST CARING AND CONSIDERATE ADVICES DON'T YOU?). If you ever lived in Louisiana you would never say such a statement either out of respect for how beautiful New Orleans is and how alluring it dynamically is on a day-to-day basis. And a third argument against your ignorant statement (as if the 1st 2 was not enough) is that it is not the same if I go somewhere else and come back home; I can get homesick, my familly might call me and need me; and the community that I have bonded for such a long time through Tutoring/Volunteering might sometimes call me asking for more help.

Why are your LoR's so late? Did you wait until recently last minute to ask for them? If so, why?

I said last post that it was a mistake I take fully responsibility over so you can infer from that it is a situation that was not precarious but fully under my control the whole time and I screwed up. I was a junior last year in college where I was frantically just trying to get my GPA up and lost sight what I should have seen in the horizon. Yes, that is not a valid excuse since I know that's what you were going to say, and that is not the excuse I mentioned in my secondary either. Instead I admitted the mistake.

Being a reapplicant is not a good thing. You will need to show improvement over the last cycle, especially at schools you previously applied to.

Thank you for finally answering this question. Well, that is the price I am willing to take and as you already mentioned after that statement, my stats are so low that I feel I can work really hard to make them even go slightly higher. You could say that because my stats are low; it's easier to show improvement, but with the mindset you showed earlier, something encouraging is never something you would say no matter how rational it sounds.

You are actually closer to the average DO matriculant [+.08GPA, +1MCAT (3.52/27)] than the average MD matriculant [-.09 GPA, -3.3 MCAT (3.69/31.3)]

Finally, I can say something that you would agree with. That statement you just said is a national average that does not apply to me if my safeties are 2 public schools in my state with only 1 private school that applies. 66% of all the schools I applied pretty much has no preference to the national out of state application and even the MSAR shows their average to be lower than that (WHICH YOU ADMITTED THAT YOU READ) yet you still somehow found that stat to be relevant for me.

 

[chemguy79]

Given the generally hostile nature of your response to V5RED (a frequent and very helpful poster on SDN), I'm curious if you'll get any additional feedback.

 

[TulaneUnderdog]

Given the generally hostile nature of your response to V5RED (a frequent and very helpful poster on SDN), I'm curious if you'll get any additional feedback.

I acknowledge that V5RED provides good advice and help because in his defense, he did motivate me into working very hard in proving that I'm a worthy applicant and for that, I thank him. However, it's plain to see that that was not his true intention due to the wrong assumptions he made.

I'm sorry if it came out hostile. But I do believe in many of the points I made in that post and consider it valid. He was recommending me to leave my state and even called it incongruous with my ambitions. I think everything involving the gesture of staying within my state is anything but incongruous such as applying to 2 in-state public schools, both with heavy in-state preference and average of 29 MCAT Score on LSU- Shreveport and 30 on LSU-New Orleans due to only 2% out of state acceptance (something that he should see in MSAR which he admitted he read) as well as still working with the community in my home that I have longed developed connections with and therefore have very easy access to opportunities to achieve the many things that he pointed out that I lacked and I agree that I must committ to and therefore will committ to. I think "incongruous" was a bad assumption to make.

 

[TulaneUnderdog]

And one final pointI would like to add is the implication he made that a "Hard No" from AdComm should validate who you really are. I want to speak in behalf of all applicants, both underqualified and overqualified, that nothing the AdComm can say in some letter should define you in any way; only you can do that yourself. Although whatever they dictated is something you should heed and to a certain extent, be impacted by, it is not something that should make you drop your dreams that you have for so long felt like pursuing. Instead, what it means is that you need to invoke more effort in proving to them wrong by making your ambitions manifest more into reality.

 

[Ismet]

First of all, cool your jets. SDN is a place for constructive criticism, and V5RED did so quite courteously. In fact, you will be receiving constructive criticism like this from higher ups throughout your medical career, so start learning not to take it personally and look at it objectively. You're going to have a bad time if you have these hostile outbursts at attendings, who can sometimes be rather blunt and harsh in their feedback.

As a result, I decided to apply this year while still in college trying to frantically increase my GPA. I know I could do much more when I graduated so I'm not afraid of trying to do so this year, but consequently, I forgot to ask the professors to write me a letter of recommendation the year before when I was so immersed in doing so well in their class that I forgot to do the most important thing that I was too myopic to notice. The bonus is that I can perform better in my senior year and have a more meaningful letter with the professors in my senior year.

Now here's the issue. My LoRs will NOT be written till November which is a month before the deadline. but I DID RECEIVE 2ndary applications that I will fill out much sooner. LSU has explicitly stated that they will not REVIEW these applications until LORS ARE RECEIVED.

This has cut my chances by a lot, that is a mistake that I will acknowledge because I not only want to be a doctor but I want to also be a worthy applicant who doers not beg for mercy, only retribution to build character. BUT it did not hurt to apply this year's cycle regardless other than it hurting my wallet? It was still worth applying rather than living a full year wondering if I still had a chance or not? Am I correct on this? My definition of what's worth it is this: If it was enriching to me, if my chances were still "viable" even though it was sharply cut by the delay (By viable i mean I had about still at least a 10% chance rather than 0.01% where the AdCom still was considering me for at least a minute rather than discarding it altogether because it was just too late).

It did more than hurt your wallet. You will now be labelled a "reapplicant" at both LSU's and Tulane. Reapplicants have an uphill battle as not only do they have to compete with the rest of the applicant pool, they also have to demonstrate how they are a better applicant than before. Since I am assuming you will have all your ducks in a row next year -- higher GPA, actually having your LORs in, applying early -- you will theoretically have an improved application. Failing to remember to get LORs shows a lack of responsibility and lack of attention to detail. You need to demonstrate that you are a responsible person and do not lack an attention to detail. Sorry, you would have been better off waiting a year and making sure your LORs were in over the summer, not in November. Even though schools have a December deadline, you have a very minimal chance of getting in if you are complete that late.

I have only applied only within my home state (Louisiana) because I also cannot consider any other state as my home whatsoever. That means both LSUs are the only colleges I applied with a "reach" Tulane because a guy can dream right?

It's not incongruous with "medicine at any cost" if I'm getting preferential treatment inside my own state by public state schools that only accept 2% out of state applicants, and there is no such preference to me anywhere else so thank you for encouraging me to make my situation bleaker by living as a non-state resident in another state that would take years to develop residency for rather than live in the state that I already spent my whole life in and have so much friends and family within (YOU SURE GIVE OUT THE MOST CARING AND CONSIDERATE ADVICES DON'T YOU?). If you ever lived in Louisiana you would never say such a statement either out of respect for how beautiful New Orleans is and how alluring it dynamically is on a day-to-day basis. And a third argument against your ignorant statement (as if the 1st 2 was not enough) is that it is not the same if I go somewhere else and come back home; I can get homesick, my familly might call me and need me; and the community that I have bonded for such a long time through Tutoring/Volunteering might sometimes call me asking for more help.

While I understand the importance of home and family, if you 100% truly want to be a doctor, it's going to involve sacrifice, either now or later or (most likely) both. I luckily stayed in-state for medical school, and my family is important to me as well, but in order to increase my chances of acceptance, I applied to schools across 7 surrounding states. Applying to 3 medical schools with below average numbers is a gamble that you are more likely to lose than to win.

This road also requires a bit of selfishness. Of course if there is a family emergency or big family event, or if there is an emergency in your community, it is not out of the question to have an excused absence from school to deal with these things. But if you want to become a doctor, the choices you make also have to benefit YOU. If you can get into LSU or Tulane next year, perfect, everything will work out and you'll be close to home. But what about schools in surrounding states? I understand not wanting to be across the country in California or New York, but perhaps consider Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, etc. What V5RED meant was that if you wanted to be a doctor no matter what, location would not be an issue. Obviously location is an issue, and that's okay, but I'm sorry, you're going to have to cast a slightly wider net if you want a better shot. Again, maybe you'll get into a Louisiana school and your application to those other schools was in vain. But if you don't get into a Louisiana school again next year, what would you do?

There are many alluring cities other than New Orleans. Many people use medical school to explore other regions or get out of the same bubble they lived in for their whole lives. It's only 4 years. You can easily return to Louisiana for residency.

 

[TulaneUnderdog]

Thank you that was a great answer, and precisely what I need to hear. I surely will be at a better position next year especially if I go for Early Action in LSU-New Orleans with at least a 30 MCAT score and committee letter instead of my LORs (in Tulane undergrad u need 3 LORs first before you get a committee letter by spring). As a Tulane undergrad, there is also a Tulane Master's Program that I can do as well that involves taking medical courses with 2nd year med students. That is something that I will definitely do when I finally graduate from Tulane with Neuroscience BS and have more "time on the clock" since you mention now I need more to prove as reapplicant but I am ready to accept that as a thrilling challenge because I do have a lot more to prove.

 

[Goro]

OK, by next year you've improved your numbers so that you're competitive for the LA schools. You apply, get interviews at two, and are rejected from all three.

Then what will you do?

Thank you that was a great answer, and precisely what I need to hear. I surely will be at a better position next year especially if I go for Early Action in LSU-New Orleans with at least a 30 MCAT score and committee letter instead of my LORs (in Tulane undergrad u need 3 LORs first before you get a committee letter by spring). As a Tulane undergrad, there is also a Tulane Master's Program that I can do as well that involves taking medical courses with 2nd year med students. That is something that I will definitely do when I finally graduate from Tulane with Neuroscience BS and have more "time on the clock" since you mention now I need more to prove as reapplicant but I am ready to accept that as a thrilling challenge because I do have a lot more to prove.

 

[TulaneUnderdog]

I did think about it since what you predict is quite a likely possibility: I planned the following things out

1) Take advantage of my senior year to add at least another 0.1 to my GPA and add more ECs, particularly research since other than my LORs, that's another important component I lack.
2) Reapply for Early Action the next year (LSU not Tulane) this time with Preadvisory Committee Letter from Tulane on top of the LORs
3) Apply for next year's Special Masters Program, there's 2 in particular that I have my eye on.
4) I would consider applying beyond the 3 Allopathics but the truth is: 1) Louisiana is still my home 2) I wouldn't have any better chance anyways at anywhere else other than right here (other than DO and Caribbean which I'm not interested in at this very moment).
5) Also I'll begin studying for the new version of MCAT and start pursuing publications in case my reapplication does get rejected. Once again I come in terms that that is a possibility (less so than this year definitely) of getting rejected but unlike what the first poster said, that doesn't mean I should consider giving up if this is all I ever wanted to pursue but I'll make sure that I can manifest my ambitions into a reality this time rather than make it seem just like I'm talking out my booty.

 

[CrimsonKing]

I read the first reply thinking this was a troll. It makes me sad to think that this guy is serious

You should take the advice given to heart. Apply more broadly and make your application strong. Have a back-up plan in place, you may well be asked about it if you get some interviews.

Ask yourself what is more important to you: becoming a physician OR never leaving Louisiana? You can always return to your state for residency, fellowship, or practice as an attending.

 

[basketcase0a0]

I did think about it since what you predict is quite a likely possibility: I planned the following things out

1) Take advantage of my senior year to add at least another 0.1 to my GPA and add more ECs, particularly research since other than my LORs, that's another important component I lack.
2) Reapply for Early Action the next year (LSU not Tulane) this time with Preadvisory Committee Letter from Tulane on top of the LORs
3) Apply for next year's Special Masters Program, there's 2 in particular that I have my eye on.
4) I would consider applying beyond the 3 Allopathics but the truth is: 1) Louisiana is still my home 2) I wouldn't have any better chance anyways at anywhere else other than right here (other than DO and Caribbean which I'm not interested in at this very moment).
5) Also I'll begin studying for the new version of MCAT and start pursuing publications in case my reapplication does get rejected. Once again I come in terms that that is a possibility (less so than this year definitely) of getting rejected but unlike what the first poster said, that doesn't mean I should consider giving up if this is all I ever wanted to pursue but I'll make sure that I can manifest my ambitions into a reality this time rather than make it seem just like I'm talking out my booty.

The bolded is very flawed reasoning. Are there any schools where your odds of acceptance are better than in state? No. Does applying to more schools increase your chances of getting in somewhere? Yes. If you followed your logic, everyone should only apply to the one school where their odds are statistically the greatest and disregard all others schools as not improving their chances. If you apply to only three schools you might get lucky. But you've got a way better shot by adding more schools to that list. Bottom line: More schools = more chances at acceptance. I'm not saying add a bunch of reaches. But add a few strategic OOS schools. By a few I mean at least 7 more.

 

[RedRaider11]

I am so committed to putting my whole life in being a doctor that I can willingly wait my whole life, although with astronomical amounts of impatience, since being a doctor is a lifetime endeavor anyway that makes holding a year back insignificant, but it is very significant for me.

You make it pretty clear that you are willing to put everything you have/wait your entire life to become a physician, which is great. If this is true, is there any particular reason you would not consider becoming an osteopathic PHYSICIAN if you were given the chance?