KCUMB to offer MD,DO degree?????

[MedStudentWanna]

Could someone explain to me how giving a dual MD/DO degree would serve to alleviate this problem? If any program director/program/hospital is going to have an anti-DO bias, won't that bias remain even if we throw the coveted MD initials at the end of the names along with the DO?

A lot of the bias is from accreditation, not the degree. If DO schools were LCME accredited, I think a lot of PDs, etc. would be more accepting.

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[JaggerPlate]

John Crosby, the CEO or whatever of the AOA posted his thoughts on the issue in the do-online AOA daily report blogs. I don't want to repost without permission, but it's the newest comment here:

http://blogs.do-online.org/dailyreport.php?itemid=37001#comments

I personally find it sort of frustrating.

 

[HopefulDoc2007]

i dont think there are enough DO spots for all the DO graduates.

I don't think there are. And in some specialties there are very few.

 

[ncguy2005]

John Crosby, the CEO or whatever of the AOA posted his thoughts on the issue in the do-online AOA daily report blogs. I don't want to repost without permission, but it's the newest comment here:

http://blogs.do-online.org/dailyreport.php?itemid=37001#comments

I personally find it sort of frustrating.

I think its going to take a lot of work to help them realize how dire the situation is. If things are bad now, JaggerPlate, think about how it will be for our class when RVU is filling GME spots in addition to the newer MD schools (Commonwealth, Carilion, the Florida schools)... thats a couple hundred more spots that are filled up.

I understand that even now primary care spots are unfilled, which will be awesome if I decide I want to pursue a career in primary care. What if I don't? What if I end up wanting to do EM or Surgery or ophtho?

 

[Taurus]

Why not just merge LCME and COCA into one accrediting body that accredits institutions awarding either the MD or DO degree? DO accreditation standards could still include OPP/OMT, etc. The new accreditation body would be coordinated between both the AMA and AOA.

Because of politics. People will lose their coveted titles.

It's the same reason why the banking regulators in Washington, DC are fighting against the new banking regulations. They don't want to give up their power.

It's a shame that DO's are put at a disadvantage compared to US MD's because of politics and greed for power.

DO's and MD's are the same. They're both physicians. They should share a common degree. MD makes the most sense. If you poll all the DO's out there, I'm sure that majority of DO's would to change all DO's to MD's. Yet, the AOA and COCA refuse to listen to their constituents because they don't want to lose their power.

Nothing will happen until it's nearly too late. Kinda like this financial crisis we are going through. By then, the damage may be irreversible. It's too bad that KCUMB fired visionaries like Karen Pletz. You need more people like her who have the courage to take DO's into the future, not paper-pushers who are primarily interested in their own careers.

Physicians need to unite. We have non-physician groups like the NP's who have come out with "doctorates" like the DNP. They will try to carve up medicine for themselves, especially primary care where DO's are strong in. This is what the AOA and COCA need to think about in the future. Physicians are stronger if all groups unite under a common umbrella.

 

[LSU Alex]

Because of politics. People will lose their coveted titles.

It's the same reason why the banking regulators in Washington, DC are fighting against the new banking regulations. They don't want to give up their power.

It's a shame that DO's are put at a disadvantage compared to US MD's because of politics and greed for power.

DO's and MD's are the same. They're both physicians. They should share a common degree. MD makes the most sense. If you poll all the DO's out there, I'm sure that majority of DO's would to change all DO's to MD's. Yet, the AOA and COCA refuse to listen to their constituents because they don't want to lose their power.

Nothing will happen until it's nearly too late. Kinda like this financial crisis we are going through. By then, the damage may be irreversible. It's too bad that KCUMB fired visionaries like Karen Pletz. You need more people like her who have the courage to take DO's into the future, not paper-pushers who are primarily interested in their own careers.

Physicians need to unite. We have non-physician groups like the NP's who have come out with "doctorates" like the DNP. They will try to carve up medicine for themselves, especially primary care where DO's are strong in. This is what the AOA and COCA need to think about in the future. Physicians are stronger if all groups unite under a common umbrella.

It's gonna take help from the MDs to make this happen... you're right about the AOA/COCA, so they aren't gonna do anything to our benefit.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

and lots of people are saying that MD students only use VSAS to see where they want to rotate, then get spots the old fashioned way.

That is really just because this was the first "real" year for VSAS and it frankly didn't work very well - when people figured out that you could go directly through the schools with success they avoided the hassle of the new system.

Also, the main (purported) advantage of VSAS was going to be a reduction in application fees for aways - that didn't happen (at least among the people I know) so people didn't have much incentive to use it.

I anticipate that it will become more highly used in the next year or two as the kinks get worked out and schools "close the loop" and start using VSAS more exclusively.

 

[allopurinol]

I spoke with a friend at a MD school in the same area who said not to worry about the whole VSAS system. He said he only used it to decide where he wanted to rotate and then set up all his 4th year rotations outside of the system (the old way).

The key is that your friend is in a MD school. The VSAS system is designed to give preferential treatment to US allopathic students, and being an MD student, he will not have a problem setting up rotations outside of VSAS, if he chooses. My hypothesis is that allopathic schools want to give preferential treatment to the increasing numbers of allopathic students, hence VSAS. Again, it is ulitmately up to the individual schools to decide whether or not to allow DO students to rotate there, but VSAS has widened the playing field, not in the favor of osteopathic medical students.

 

[ncguy2005]

The key is that your friend is in a MD school. The VSAS system is designed to give preferential treatment to US allopathic students, and being an MD student, he will not have a problem setting up rotations outside of VSAS, if he chooses. My hypothesis is that allopathic schools want to give preferential treatment to the increasing numbers of allopathic students, hence VSAS. Again, it is ulitmately up to the individual schools to decide whether or not to allow DO students to rotate there, but VSAS has widened the playing field, not in the favor of osteopathic medical students.

I would assume the first people to get hit hardest would be the Caribbean students, followed by the DO students. Am I wrong in thinking this?

 

[JaggerPlate]

It's going to be interesting if headway is made towards getting DOs involved in VSAS before it is made towards expanding OMGE and establishing schools with solid 3/4 year rotations.

 

[IMDoc607]

I mentioned this prior....The AOA sent out a survey regarding the use of VSAS for DO students.

 

[exPCM]

The omission of DO students from VSAS is not a coincidence and it will not change even if the AOA wants it. It was not the AOA's decision to exclude DO students initially but that doesn't matter since this is a line in the sand for the AAMC and the allopathic schools. They are going to preserve good rotation sites/selection for their burgeoning numbers of students no matter what. The DO students will have to be satisfied with the leftover slots (which are going to decrease as allo enrollment increases) as far as VSAS goes. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool IMHO.
What the AOA should be doing is working on their own to beef up clinical opportunties for DO students around the country instead of unrealistic hopes of getting DO students in VSAS.
Dr. Pletz was right on the money on this issue.

 

[babdoc]

I think its going to take a lot of work to help them realize how dire the situation is. If things are bad now, JaggerPlate, think about how it will be for our class when RVU is filling GME spots in addition to the newer MD schools (Commonwealth, Carilion, the Florida schools)... thats a couple hundred more spots that are filled up.

I understand that even now primary care spots are unfilled, which will be awesome if I decide I want to pursue a career in primary care. What if I don't? What if I end up wanting to do EM or Surgery or ophtho?

Answer to the bold: work your a** off. That's the only variable that you can control

 

[DrMeditrina]

Here's what I don't get:

1. Many of you have mentioned you would have gone to an MD school, had you been accepted (but you weren't because you weren't competitive enough)
2. You state clinical rotations and basic science coursework at DO schools is often inferior to that of MD schools
3. Yet, you deserve an MD degree and
4. You are equal as physicians to your MD colleagues.

My comments aren't to imply I feel DOs are inferior physicians, but it is DO students perpetuating the DO-stigma.

Your arguments contradict one another.

 

[ncguy2005]

Here's what I don't get:

1. Many of you have mentioned you would have gone to an MD school, had you been accepted (but you weren't because you weren't competitive enough)
2. You state clinical rotations and basic science coursework at DO schools is often inferior to that of MD schools
3. Yet, you deserve an MD degree and
4. You are equal as physicians to your MD colleagues.

My comments aren't to imply I feel DOs are inferior physicians, but it is DO students perpetuating the DO-stigma.

Your arguments contradict one another.

I think the main argument is that getting something like LCME accreditation would open up doors for more rotations/residencies. I think most people say they deserve the MD title not because its better, but because it reflects the training more clearly to patients and colleagues. At least thats how I understand it. Some people may feel how you've stated.

 

[thepoopologist]

This is from the other thread:

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/7041

Top university executives placed on paid leave in Karen Pletz case


By Yael T. Abouhalkah, Kansas City Star Editorial Page columnist
The fallout continues from the sudden firing of Karen Pletz as CEO of the Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences. Two top university officials are on paid leave, reportedly as of last Friday, when Pletz was ousted.
They are:
-- Richard Hoffine, executive vice president for finance and administration.
-- Doug Dalzell, executive vice president for institutional development and academic affairs.
When I learned of this development, I requested a statement Thursday morning from Parris Communications on behalf of KCUMB.
Here is the statement from Parris senior vice president Laurie Roberts:
"I can confirm that Richard Hoffine and Doug Dalzell have been placed on administrative leave with pay, but since this is a personnel matter, I cannot comment further. The investigation is ongoing."
I am attempting to reach both men for further comment.
Obviously, this shows that the firing of Pletz may have involved the actions of more than just a single individual at the school.
In once sense, it ratchets up the possibility that the board and school could become involved in legal matters in the future over the firings and the placing of other executives on administrative leave.
It also creates an even higher level of public interest in what actually happened with Pletz -- a highly praised civic leader for years -- and the two other men at KCUMB.
From my earlier postings on this subject:
Here is a statement from Pletz, which she gave me Monday morning.
And here is the statement from the KCUMB board Monday afternoon in response to Pletz's statement.

 

[thepoopologist]

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/7005

Here's statement from Karen Pletz: Lawsuit ahead over her firing


By Yael T. Abouhalkah, Kansas City Star Editorial Page columnist
Karen Pletz returned my call Monday morning about her sudden firing Friday night as CEO of the Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences. One highlight: Litigation is ahead.
(And here is the university's response to Pletz's comment.)
Pletz told me in a statement:
"I do want to take the opportunity to thank all of the many friends and community leaders who have reached out to me with their support. It matters and it is very deeply appreciated.
"I also have great love and respect for the faculty, staff, students and alumni at KCUMB with whom I have worked for 14 years. That will not change.
"However, I have initiated litigation and cannot comment further at this time."
She added at the end of her message to me:
"It's a beautiful sunny day and I am going to enjoy my little new granddaughter who was born July 30th and is almost five months old."

 

[thepoopologist]

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/7012

University releases disturbing details of Karen Pletz investigation


By Yael T. Abouhalkah, Kansas City Star Editorial Page columnist
The board of directors for the Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences on Monday released details of its version of the sudden firing of CEO Karen Pletz last Friday. The disturbing information shows this fight could get very nasty.
Earlier Monday, Pletz gave me a statement in which she said litigation has been filed in her firing.
The university's release makes for compelling reading, although it doesn't contain enough information at this point to state what's really at dispute here.
In its statement later Monday, here's what the board had to say about that threat:
"As such, should Karen Pletz elect to file suit against the University, the Board, which has to date not released the reasons for her termination, will provide them to the court at that time."
Here is the complete statement from the board of directors:
"December 21, 2009
Statement from the Board of Trustees of Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences
Following the termination of its former President and CEO, the Board of Trustees of Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences would like to provide additional information about the process by which action was taken on Friday, December 18, 2009.
Recently, a series of issues were confidentially brought to the Board by several sources. The Trustees had a fiduciary responsibility to examine each issue in detail.
A special committee of the board was formed to investigate the issues in a fair and impartial manner. The University and the special committee retained special counsel, which had no ties or business relationship with management of the University, to lead the independent investigation.
During that process, Karen Pletz and her attorney had multiple communications with special counsel in order to understand the issues, review the same documents presented to the special committee, ask questions and provide responses. Karen Pletz also had the opportunity to address the Trustees at their meeting on Friday, December 18. She and her attorney are well aware of the reasons for her termination.
Based upon the findings as presented by the special committee on Friday, December 18, all voting members reached the same decision. There were no dissenting votes to the special committee's recommendation of immediate termination.
The University's Trustees are committed to protecting and preserving the reputation of this outstanding institution through prudence and a system of strong governance.
The Trustees are also committed to a new and higher standard of transparency. As such, should Karen Pletz elect to file suit against the University, the Board, which has to date not released the reasons for her termination, will provide them to the court at that time. The Trustees are confident that should those reasons be released, the decision of the Board to terminate Karen Pletz's employment will be completely understood and validated.

 

[medhacker]

Here's what I don't get:

1. Many of you have mentioned you would have gone to an MD school, had you been accepted (but you weren't because you weren't competitive enough)

That's quite a misconception, there just aren't enough med school seats even for some "competitive enough" applicants.

2. You state clinical rotations and basic science coursework at DO schools is often inferior to that of MD schools

Obviously anyone making such a statement is rather stating an opinion or even an anecdote rather than a fact.

3. Yet, you deserve an MD degree and
4. You are equal as physicians to your MD colleagues.

My comments aren't to imply I feel DOs are inferior physicians, but it is DO students perpetuating the DO-stigma.

Most of the bozos participating on SDN osteo do not represent the majority of DO students nationwide

 

[Fly Army]

What could Pletz personnally have to gain by having the school obtain LCME accreditation and award a DO/MD? More applicants for already full classes? So I think it's fair to say she was looking forward; anticipating future issues that KCUMB students and grads may likely have to face and trying to take care of them sooner vs. later.

Do any of you really think the AOA will go to bat and tell the mean ol' allopathic schools they can't use the VSAS unless DO students are given equal footing? I don't think so. I tend to believe that many at KCUMB (and other schools) feel like they have to take care of these kind of situations on their own (w/o AOA help/assistance). I really don't see any reason for the senior DO attendings/program directors to be motivated to assist the students. An increase in students rotating with their DO programs would be viewed as good and help to increase competition for rez slots; especially the primary care slots that go unfilled or are filled with weaker folks.


When Pletz took over the school was in a poor fiscal state. Any one who has seen the campus lately knows that is no longer the case. At the same time the school has continued to raise the bar academically. Doctors take great care of their patients... that does not make them well qualified to run schools or hospitals for that matter.

IF (and still a big if) the Board terminated Pletz for the DO/MD thing, then they are the typical room full of old crusty blue hair DOs who still have a chip on their shoulder's about some old inferiority complex hidden by "I'm a better doctor than those allopaths because I can manipulate"..... whatever. OMM is an excellent tool that can be used to help your patients regardless of your degree... it is not a reason to go around firing people.

I'm sure it will be some time before we know all the details... but the timing of the above mentioned emails is concerning.

 

[MomRNtoDO]

Thanks medhacker. That is all the response that one needed. Most of the osteopathic students I know feel like we are getting a great education. We don't need to be told we are better than anyone else either. All we have to do is prove ourselves on rotations.

 

[spicedmanna]

One fired, one resigns at KCUMB | Midwest Voices

 

[mowtnman]

They'd probably get more applicants and probably attract students that would up the stats. What's the average MCAT/GPA stats now?

For the Class of 2013 at KCUMB... the average MCAT was 27 w/ a 3.65 GPA I believe is what they told us during orientation week.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

One fired, one resigns at KCUMB | Midwest Voices

Hmm, now I'm wondering if it's some sort of financial/fraud type of deal.

 

[chels02]

More information regarding the firing. The new acting president said it had nothing to do with the dual degree and if Pletz decides to file a lawsuit, then they would release more details which would "stand on its own".

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/7179

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/7203

 

[ncguy2005]

More information regarding the firing. The new acting president said it had nothing to do with the dual degree and if Pletz decides to file a lawsuit, then they would release more details which would "stand on its own".

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/7179

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/7203

Part of me wonders... if it had nothing to do with the dual degree issue... then are the still researching the possibility?

If the process stopped cold, then I would wonder...

 

[IDBasco]

Well if the firing had nothing to do with offering a dual degree, then certainly the school will keep working toward that goal, right?

Edit- get up to make some food before replying and ncguy beats me to the punch.

 

[HopefulDoc2007]

For the Class of 2013 at KCUMB... the average MCAT was 27 w/ a 3.65 GPA I believe is what they told us during orientation week.

I spoke with one of the instructors once and was told that the average MCAT score for the class of 2012 was a 28 or 29 (it's been a while since the conversation). I'm sure it varies a little every year.

 

[MomRNtoDO]

So, after having met with the new interim President at KCUMB, I want to say that so far, there is no attempt being made to go for dual accreditation at this time. The focus is on keeping things running as smoothly as possible through the transitions and listening to student suggestions on how things can change for the better at KCUMB. I am very impressed with the open door policy between the new admin and students. It is a refreshing change.

We also broached the question of residency spots and we were told that likely the first thing that needs to be done is reorganization of the current numbers of residency spots that go unfilled. That might include taking a few away from highly specific residencies that are often unfilled or slightly decreasing some specialty spots and putting them into primary care roles that need more.

Interestingly, I went to a residency symposium last year at UNO in Omaha, NE, and sat in on a lecture on family medicine, and they showed data on residency spots filled and available. In Family medicine, (these are approximate #s) say there were 1100 spots available, and only 1045 filled, just over 50% with allo residents, then the next fraction with FMGs and then DOs were only 10% or so of the total. It is not the DOs that are 'soaking up spots', as the speaker said. Then one of my first DO bias experiences came when he said, "You MD students need to take these spots, we'd rather give them to you than the FMGs and DOs." He apparently didn't realize that they had invited us DOs to the symposium.

 

[IDBasco]

So, after having met with the new interim President at KCUMB, I want to say that so far, there is no attempt being made to go for dual accreditation at this time.

Gee, I didn't see that coming...

We also broached the question of residency spots and we were told that likely the first thing that needs to be done is reorganization of the current numbers of residency spots that go unfilled. That might include taking a few away from highly specific residencies that are often unfilled or slightly decreasing some specialty spots and putting them into primary care roles that need more.

That also doesn't surprise me. Hey, lets take from residencies that have ~2 applicants/spot (most all AOA non-PC specialties) and change them to residencies that already have ~2 spots/applicant (most AOA PC specialties). Good plan.

 

[HopefulDoc2007]

Gee, I didn't see that coming...



That also doesn't surprise me. Hey, lets take from residencies that have ~2 applicants/spot (most all AOA non-PC specialties) and change them to residencies that already have ~2 spots/applicant (most AOA PC specialties). Good plan.

My understanding is that most students don't want to go to the PC AOA spots because of a perceived (or real?) lack of quality of those programs. I don't know if that is true or not but that is what I have heard. Probably something to ask PC providers in those residencies I suppose.

 

[IDBasco]

My understanding is that most students don't want to go to the PC AOA spots because of a perceived (or real?) lack of quality of those programs. I don't know if that is true or not but that is what I have heard. Probably something to ask PC providers in those residencies I suppose.

I think you missed my point. It is simply dumb to take spots away from non-PC residencies when there are roughly 2 people trying to match per spot, just to add more PC spots when half of them aren't filling anyway. I wasn't commenting on the quality or location. Rather, I question the thought that the answer would be taking from specialites, most of which have <30 seats a year anyway. There are something like 11 for urology and 16 for ENT. Doesn't sound like a real excess to me.

If the powers that be want to yank PC spots and move them to better locations, have at it. But the last thing they should do is reduce the small number of non-PC spots to do it.

 

[HopefulDoc2007]

I think you missed my point. It is simply dumb to take spots away from non-PC residencies when there are roughly 2 people trying to match per spot, just to add more PC spots when half of them aren't filling anyway. I wasn't commenting on the quality or location. Rather, I question the thought that the answer would be taking from specialites, most of which have <30 seats a year anyway. There are something like 11 for urology and 16 for ENT. Doesn't sound like a real excess to me.

If the powers that be want to yank PC spots and move them to better locations, have at it. But the last thing they should do is reduce the small number of non-PC spots to do it.

I actually agree with you. I meant to add to your argument but I don't think I worded it very well.

 

[Laryngophed]

Any more news on the expansion of the campus to SW Missouri?

 

[MomRNtoDO]

Any more news on the expansion of the campus to SW Missouri?

Only that it is on the back burner and the whole arrangement needs reviewed.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Any more news on the expansion of the campus to SW Missouri?

Both Cox and St. John's hospitals are actively working out an educational agreement with the University of Missouri School of Medicine. From what I understand, the plan is to have 3rd and 4th years rotate through Springfield as a way to handle the increased class size (University Hospital is basically saturated with students and to increase class size you need a place for the extra students to rotate).

With an agreement between Mizzou Med and the two largest health systems in Springfield, I'm not sure that leaves a lot of room for a campus expansion from other medical schools. Only time will tell.

http://som.missouri.edu/Alumni/News71.aspx

 

[HarveyCushing]

Anyone in KC catch this Kansas City Star front page on Sunday?

http://media.kansascity.com/static/page_one_pdfs/SUNDAY.pdf

 

[JaggerPlate]

Anyone in KC catch this Kansas City Star front page on Sunday?

http://media.kansascity.com/static/page_one_pdfs/SUNDAY.pdf

At least they put a picture up there that doesn't make her look like an evil mastermind, plotting world domination ...







psyche.

 

[Laryngophed]

Both Cox and St. John's hospitals are actively working out an educational agreement with the University of Missouri School of Medicine. From what I understand, the plan is to have 3rd and 4th years rotate through Springfield as a way to handle the increased class size (University Hospital is basically saturated with students and to increase class size you need a place for the extra students to rotate).

With an agreement between Mizzou Med and the two largest health systems in Springfield, I'm not sure that leaves a lot of room for a campus expansion from other medical schools. Only time will tell.

http://som.missouri.edu/Alumni/News71.aspx

Thanks for the heads up! I think we both know there are other limitations to an increase in class size at MU. They'll need more space and more tutors and those won't be free.

This sounds like a good thing for all parties though. I'm sure Mizzou will throw a little coin at the hospitals for the spots and the school gets to meet the AAMC's mandate (ok, ok more like suggestion) and its mission by providing more docs for Missouri.

I do find it kind of stunning that more and more schools are adopting the osteopathic model of medical education. Teach 'em for two years in house and farm 'em out for two years.

 

[HarveyCushing]

At least they put a picture up there that doesn't make her look like an evil mastermind, plotting world domination ...







psyche.

If you only knew, if you only knew.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I do find it kind of stunning that more and more schools are adopting the osteopathic model of medical education. Teach 'em for two years in house and farm 'em out for two years.

It's just an unfortunate reality. I think you'll see this, among other things, more and more as time goes on.

 

[JaggerPlate]

If you only knew, if you only knew.

Hahaha, maybe ... but I seriously don't even know where the hell they got that picture. It's just not the most flattering by any means, and I don't think that's an accident.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Hahaha, maybe ... but I seriously don't even know where the hell they got that picture. It's just not the most flattering by any means, and I don't think that's an accident.

Maybe they should have taken a picture of her in her Lexus LS with her 20 karat diamond ring blinding the photographer. That would have been more life like.

 

[On the Loose]

Karen Pletz found dead.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/22/3280401/karen-pletz-found-dead-in-florida.html

 

[thepoopologist]

AOA sent out another hit squad

 

[Fergison2]

Any updates on this issue or information as to whether Karen Pletz was indeed fired for attempting to spearhead the MD, DO at KCUMB?

This is a sad state of affairs. It seems KCUMBs termination of the pursuit of this degree designation did correlate with her firing from what I have read.

I don't understand why DO's continue to shoot themselves in the feet on attempts at progress in this area. We are seeing real issues here in terms of DO students being shut out of residencies and ACGME/LCME doing more and more to restrict our access to training and opportunities.

A degree that a designation change is not the ultimate solution but believe that it is a step in the right direction. A step toward more broad recognition of our training and what we actually do vs being represented by a small part of our training.

I have heard a program director state that he wanted to not have as high a number of DO's in the next residency class as to not send a signal of being a weak program.

We are sold the line of "strengthening the DO brand". People, we're not merchandise, we're doctors.

This is not about confidence in ourselves or or training. This is about a designation that recognizes what our training really is. And for those of you impassioned first and second year students being trained in OMM. I know it seems like its really going to be something you use a lot of and that is really significant. I've been hard on OMM, I'll admit for acute musculoskeletal strains I think it has a place in soft tissue work but it's effects and capacities are far overstated and as practicing doctors this one small area of out training should not define our degree designation outright.
I for one have always been in favor of the title MDO as it adds the medical designation but retains the osteopathic portion. I think it is a more accurately representative title.

OK back to the issue:
Any updates on this issue or information as to whether Karen Pletz was indeed fired for attempting to spearhead the MD, DO at KCUMB?

 

[DocEspana]

Any updates on this issue or information as to whether Karen Pletz was indeed fired for attempting to spearhead the MD, DO at KCUMB?

This is a sad state of affairs. It seems KCUMBs termination of the pursuit of this degree designation did correlate with her firing from what I have read.

.....

OK back to the issue:
Any updates on this issue or information as to whether Karen Pletz was indeed fired for attempting to spearhead the MD, DO at KCUMB?

what have you read? I'm pretty sure she was fired for *embezzling money*. Occam's razor here seems to suggest thats the simplest explanation.

 

[WDeagle]

Any updates on this issue or information as to whether Karen Pletz was indeed fired for attempting to spearhead the MD, DO at KCUMB?

This is a sad state of affairs. It seems KCUMBs termination of the pursuit of this degree designation did correlate with her firing from what I have read.

I don't understand why DO's continue to shoot themselves in the feet on attempts at progress in this area. We are seeing real issues here in terms of DO students being shut out of residencies and ACGME/LCME doing more and more to restrict our access to training and opportunities.

A degree that a designation change is not the ultimate solution but believe that it is a step in the right direction. A step toward more broad recognition of our training and what we actually do vs being represented by a small part of our training.

I have heard a program director state that he wanted to not have as high a number of DO's in the next residency class as to not send a signal of being a weak program.

We are sold the line of "strengthening the DO brand". People, we're not merchandise, we're doctors.

This is not about confidence in ourselves or or training. This is about a designation that recognizes what our training really is. And for those of you impassioned first and second year students being trained in OMM. I know it seems like its really going to be something you use a lot of and that is really significant. I've been hard on OMM, I'll admit for acute musculoskeletal strains I think it has a place in soft tissue work but it's effects and capacities are far overstated and as practicing doctors this one small area of out training should not define our degree designation outright.
I for one have always been in favor of the title MDO as it adds the medical designation but retains the osteopathic portion. I think it is a more accurately representative title.

OK back to the issue:
Any updates on this issue or information as to whether Karen Pletz was indeed fired for attempting to spearhead the MD, DO at KCUMB?

Umm yea she was fired for embezzling millions and millions of dollars from the school. The MD/DO thing was apparently some diversion she came up with to make it appear as though she was being forced out unfairly by the AOA. Pretty clever if you ask me. When she was fired most of the students at the school were furious as we though it was due to the MD/DO thing. Turns out she is an evil lady who could have done some serious damage to the school and osteopathic medicine in general.

 

[DocEspana]

Umm yea she was fired for embezzling millions and millions of dollars from the school. The MD/DO thing was apparently some diversion she came up with to make it appear as though she was being forced out unfairly by the AOA. Pretty clever if you ask me. When she was fired most of the students at the school were furious as we though it was due to the MD/DO thing. Turns out she is an evil lady who could have done some serious damage to the school and osteopathic medicine in general.

While youre correct as to why she was fired, the AOA hit squad who finally did her in and ended her life probably sent mixed messages.

 

[WDeagle]

While youre correct as to why she was fired, the AOA hit squad who finally did her in and ended her life probably sent mixed messages.

Could have sworn it was a botox overdose