Know any practicing vets or fellow vet students in wheelchairs? And my chances this cycle?

[wheelin2vetmed]

Hey eveyone,

I did post over in the "What Are My Chances?" thread, but I have a specific question as well so I felt like consolidating both into my own thread.

Do any of you know a practicing veterinarian or a fellow student in a wheelchair? I had a traumatic Spinal Cord Injury in 2012 that paralyzed me from the waist down (T12/L1 paraplegic). I'm curious about the specific disability-related experiences in vet school and the strategies one uses for mobility in lab/class/learning settings. Everything I need to do can be done with a little ingenuity; 60% of the time, it works all the time.

For those of you without a physical disability and in vet school: if you were in a wheelchair, what do you think would be the hardest tasks to accomplish?

------------------------------------------

Now on to my other question, what are my chances for this cycle? I'm a 28 y/o non-trad and started my VMCAS a few weeks back.

Academic:

Degree: B.Sc Nutritional Sciences w/ Biochemistry Minor (Graduate this fall)

Overall GPA (3 different schools): 3.73

Last 45+ GPA: 4.0

GRE: Studying now and will take in August before application submission

Experience:

-- Beginning to shadow a vet in surgeries in the next 2 weeks. Otherwise, none since I was a wee lad

-- ~500 hours research in cancer biology lab (Radiation-induced salivary gland dysfunction)

-- ~100 hours training and instruction with service dog organization

eLORs:

-- Head of the lab I volunteer at

-- Animal Sciences Anatomy & Physiology Professor (had 100% overall grade in the class for both semesters)

-- The vet I’ll be shadowing (plan on hitting him up after about a month of volunteering ***WHAT’S BEST WAY TO APPROACH THIS?***)

------------------------------------------

Without going into exhaustive detail of my story, my path towards vet school is definitely non-traditional. I’m curious how much admissions committees look at an individual and their story vs simply statistics. I wanted to be a vet when I was a little kid and volunteered throughout my young life, but that dream eventually fell by the wayside. Out of high school (2005) I started college and left after 2 weeks because the rock band I was in got some amazing exposure. Toured the country for 2 years, then returned to school in a different state (2007). Was the sole caregiver for my father in another state battling cancer, constantly traveled back and forth, and then took a leave of absence to nurse him until he passed away (2009). Returned to school but wasn’t mentally fit to study, traveled the world and became a professional skydiver. Was fast tracking towards the US Army Golden Knights, working in the sport, and taking a few classes to progress my degree (2010). I was planning to finish my degree on the GI Bill once I was out of the military. 2 weeks before entering the Army, prior to a skydiving competition, I impacted the ground and was paralyzed immediately (2012). I spent 2012-2013 in surgeries, healing, rehabilitating, and adapting to a new life. In January 2014 I returned to school in a different state, once again, and will be graduating this December. I’ve pushed hard to maintain the last 45+ 4.0 and still deal with various medical issues that knock me down for extended periods of time, but I don’t let that stop me.

I realize my experience is quite low compared to others that have been on the vet sci path their whole lives. Rekindling this dream was a very recent decision, and I haven’t had much time (in all honesty) to get experience. Do you think I stand a chance this application cycle with potentially ~100 hours of experience under a vet (I start in 2 weeks)? Will a school like UC Davis throw my application out immediately? I really have no clue where I want to apply; I’m not gung ho about any particular school.

Thanks guys and gals, hope to be studying with some of you soon!

---

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[jmstroup]

I would say you have nothing to worry about academically. Especially for UCD. I feel like UCD is pushing really hard to increase their academic statistics (to surpass Cornell in the 'rankings' that don't mean anything). Davis tends to cut off applications at very high GPAs and GRE percentiles, and then they start to consider experience and interview scores. As far as experience, if you only have 100 vet hours while applying for this cycle, that could likely be a deal-breaker, even with your impressive academics and life experiences. Personally, I think your best course of action might be to spend a gap year gaining as much experience as you can in small and large animal medicine (and wildlife/exotic if possible). This will also be a good indicator to you as to whether you can handle a career in veterinary medicine in a wheelchair. I honestly don't see any reason why a physically disable person could not be a veterinarian, depending on the emphasis they desire in the field. For example, lab research would be completely doable (especially since you already have great lab experience).

Best of luck!

 

[that redhead]

A couple of things:

More veterinary experience. Especially since this is such a new decision for you, schools are going to want to see that you understand what you're getting yourself into. The service dog work will count as animal experience, which is certainly part of an application, but it isn't "worth" as much as veterinary experience. If you're able to shadow the surgeon all summer and get a few hundred hours, that would be better. But many schools do like to see some variety, especially to include some large animal experience.

As for your disability, I'll be honest: I don't know any veterinarians in a wheelchair nor students. Many schools that I applied to had a blurb about "skills and abilities" (see Cornell's here: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/admissions/EssentialSkills.cfm) that were sort of vague but seem as though could be used against you. For example, how will you restrain a patient? How will you palpate a cow or jog out a lame horse? I understand that you've probably developed many strategies to get things done, and maybe I lack creativity, but I'm not sure how you'll be able to do these things safely for you, the patient and any colleagues around you. Probably best to contact the schools you'd want to apply to and see how receptive they are to students with substantial physical disabilities. Good luck!

 

[LyraGardenia]

@eventualeventer is a current UC Davis student in a wheelchair. She posted a bit about her experience here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/class-of-2015-how-ya-doing.851886/page-52#post-15757892

 

[Minnerbelle]

If I became wheelchair bound now, I think my biggest difficulty would be examining fearful/uncooperative larger breed dogs. As long as you're not a solo practitioner and can have someone else see these pets, I'm not sure that would be such a problem. Otherwise, as long as my exam room was made bigger and more accessible, and exam tables the right size, and I had a dedicated technician/assistant with me the whole time, I don't see why I couldn't do what I do. May or may not require longer appointment times depending on how well the practice is able to accommodate. For surgeries, i think I would be fine since my techs are great and I barely physically do much with the patient other than their exam and actual surgery/dentistry. As long as there's another doctor in the building who can rush over in case disaster strikes, I would feel absolutely comfortable with being wheelchair bound for surgeries. The only problem would be to figure out how to be sterile with the wheelchair (gowning in, staying sterile, keeping OR clean), but I'm sure that can be worked out. The biggest problem would be finding the right practice for me. Most vet clinics are small businesses that may have a hard time making the accommodations you need (infrastructure and staff wise)

It would take the right practice set up, but I can't see a reason why a wheelchair in itself would render you incapable of being a small animal vet. I probably would pursue my dream to become a feline only practitioner much sooner if that were the case. Clearly I've never been wheelchair bound, so I have no idea what obstacles are actually encountered, and can only speculate. But I can't figure out a task that I wouldn't be able to do that would make it such that I couldn't be a veterinarian under the right circumstances.

As for vet school, I would definitely get in touch with the school and discuss with them what accommodations are available, and how things will work. Some schools/hospitals are much more accessible than others. I would choose a school based on that. For the first few years, most of it is classroom learning, and labs aren't that big a deal as long as the facility is adequately accessible. The most difficult part would be your clinic year and clinical skills learning, so I would focus your questions on that. I think you need to talk to them before you apply to figure out which schools would be best for you.

As for what your chances are, I would think your lack of experience would be a huge barrier. Especially for someone with a disability who is going to have to go through extra hurdles in finding the right work environment and work responsibilities, it's going to be extra important for you to know exactly what the career entails and how you can make it work for you. You can't really convince people how your disability might affect you in your career and how you can overcome those things if you don't have a good grasp of what the career entails. "Well I saw in the one clinic I shadowed at" I don't think is enough. Not just for admission's sake, but for you. IMO, you need to see many different clinic set ups, and see how different clinics operate, what the doctors are responsible for, and how you can see yourself in the situation. Not to mention, the level of experience you had is inadequate for anyone applying to vet school for admissions, or to understand what you're getting yourself into. I would wait a cycle and get your stuff in order.

Here's and article about veterinarians with disabilities. You may be able to contact some of these people and talk with them to get a better idea.

http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=24500

 

[JaynaAli]

When I was a recruiter/tour guide for my school they (meaning the administration) were trying to convince a girl in a wheelchair to apply. She had been pre-vet before her accident and gave up on the dream after it, but one vet took her under his wing and convinced her and everyone she could do it. I think it makes more sense to try to attend a school that tracks so you can focus on small animal so you don't have to deal with some issues mentioned above like large animal patients. Not to say it wouldn't be possible to figure out solutions in a non-tracking school if they were willing to work with you. My school didn't track but they were figuring out how to manage. I don't know if she ended up attending or not but the administration seemed to think it was possible, to the extent of making some accessibility changes at the school in preparation for her.

 

[Minnerbelle]

@eventualeventer is a current UC Davis student in a wheelchair. She posted a bit about her experience here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/class-of-2015-how-ya-doing.851886/page-52#post-15757892

Omg I totally missed that. Props to her!

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Thank you everyone for your replies!

I absolutely agree regarding the experience, but was hoping one or two of you would say, "Yes, even though your experience is a little low, with everything else and your story, you might get in." Not to say I'm the only one with an interesting story or life battles (we all have crazy lives).

Regarding my disability, I'm very much a realist. So, large animal medicine may be out of the question, and I'm fine with that. To tell you the truth, I never considered anything but small animal medicine. Standing wheelchairs, motorized tables, and other gadgets would allow me to get up at the OR table and stuff like that. My upper body is fully functional and mobility wise, I surprise people all the time with what I can do and how I get around.

Visiting various vet clinics, it really doesn't seem like I'd have an issue. My wheelchair is a manual one and it's quite tiny/lightweight. Regarding cleanliness, I would get a custom built wheelchair that can be easily sterilized and keep that for the OR only. I wouldn't wheel into the OR in my day to day chair that rolls over dirty asphault.

Regarding "tracking," can any of you provide me with more information about that? I was wondering, for certain stints in large animal or farm-like activities, would schools just have me double up on related small animal tasks? I guess it's best to contact schools directly, but I'm not sure of which ones.

So is the general consensus that with my limited experience I'm SOL for this cycle, or do I stand a remote chance?

 

[that redhead]

I wouldn't say you're SOL this cycle necessarily, but you would need to devote your entire summer to gaining experience hours - a couple hundred is the minimum most applicants seem to be able to squeak in with. I'm of the opinion that taking a year to gain more experience would be your best option. While you do have a very unique story and good grades, you absolutely need that experience and perhaps even more than a typical applicant for the reasons Minnerbelle mentioned.

 

[ADM1220]

The vet in the article is not in a wheelchair, but I thought I'd share anyways. Best wishes to you!
http://www1.vetmed.lsu.edu/PDFs/La Veterinaire/item59182.pdf

 

[jmo1012]

Just to throw this out there, SGU is NOT handicap friendly, so I would avoid applying there because it would be tough for you to get around (i know it's not on your list, but wanted to let you know so you can avoid that). Good luck! I can't see why that should hold you back

 

[pinkpuppy9]

The vet in the article is not in a wheelchair, but I thought I'd share anyways. Best wishes to you!
http://www1.vetmed.lsu.edu/PDFs/La Veterinaire/item59182.pdf

Beat me to it! Here's another article on the same student: http://www.myneworleans.com/Louisiana-Life/November-December-2014/No-Holding-Back/

I'll be a first year this fall, but from observing small animal practice and having been through some buildings on my own campus I'd find these things to be a challenge:
-being on an outdated campus that hasn't made everything wheelchair friendly yet. Sure, you can easily make ramps to/from the buildings...but I took a class with a student in a wheelchair who had a hell of a time trying to make it through some doorways, even into bathrooms. I agree that you should choose your schools based on accessibility. You don't need the extra stress of trying to work around an old building. Take some tours if you are financially able to do some traveling.

-Schools might be much better about this since they typically have better facilities, but I could see working/shadowing in an old clinic being an issue. Non-adjusting exam tables, narrow hallways, whatever else. For example, there are no steps leading up to the clinic I work in, but I can tell you that you would have a lot of difficulty getting into our restroom, even if you have a smaller chair. Not having any mobility issues myself, I don't know what kind of measures you take when faced with these obstacles elsewhere. I would imagine removing animals from high kennels, particularly if they're fearful/fractious, would pose challenges as well. For your shadowing/volunteering, maybe visit the clinic prior to starting your commitment so you can start brainstorming ways to overcome these things. Keep us updated on how your experience goes!

 

[Lupin21]

@wheelin2vetmed , we will be having a student wheelchair bound in the incoming c/o 2019 here at OKState. I haven't met her yet, but I can say that the school is making quite a few upgrades to accommodate her, so we will soon be a more welcoming school for those with disabilities. I am usually an incoming class cheermeister, so I will see what she has to say if you want updates as the year progresses.

 

[Gemgrrrl]

eLORs:

-- Head of the lab I volunteer at

-- Animal Sciences Anatomy & Physiology Professor (had 100% overall grade in the class for both semesters)

-- The vet I’ll be shadowing (plan on hitting him up after about a month of volunteering ***WHAT’S BEST WAY TO APPROACH THIS?***)

I would have a conversation before you start. Tell him that you're planning on applying, and that one of your goals for the shadowing experience is to earn his recommendation. Get specifics from him about what he would like to see from you in order to make that happen. Then you can check in periodically and make sure you're meeting those expectations.

Thank you everyone for your replies!

I absolutely agree regarding the experience, but was hoping one or two of you would say, "Yes, even though your experience is a little low, with everything else and your story, you might get in." Not to say I'm the only one with an interesting story or life battles (we all have crazy lives).

You do have an amazing story, and there are other people who have gotten in with very little veterinary experience. But I do think that you should try to get some hours doing something other than shadowing. You really should give yourself a chance to experience what it's going to be like.

I would also try to contact some of the veterinarians with disabilities. I'm sure some of them would be willing to talk to you about their experiences and give you some pointers. Another one is Brandy Duhon, DVM, a shelter medicine fellow at LSU. She lost her hands at 13, and still does surgeries. http://www1.vetmed.lsu.edu/PDFs/La Veterinaire/item59182.pdf

Regarding "tracking," can any of you provide me with more information about that? I was wondering, for certain stints in large animal or farm-like activities, would schools just have me double up on related small animal tasks? I guess it's best to contact schools directly, but I'm not sure of which ones.

I'm starting at Virginia-Maryland in the fall, and they track. Basically everyone does the same core classes and can choose from the same elective classes, then you have required track classes starting in year two. If you're tracking SA, for example, you can fulfill your credit requirements to enter clinical year without taking any LA classes. For fourth year rotations are also determined by your track.

Given you're research experience, you've probably already considered the corporate side. That's another tracking option that would have limited LA.

So is the general consensus that with my limited experience I'm SOL for this cycle, or do I stand a remote chance?

There are no guarantees with vet school admissions. There are people with all the right stats that don't get in, and others who get in with a lot less. It's really difficult to predict. All we can do is tell you what could strengthen your application. If you want to apply this cycle and see how it goes, and you have the application fees and interview costs to spare, I say do it. But do some research into which schools would be the best fit for you.

 

[Staffie]

I don't have any advice regarding vet schools and disabled students, but I can tell you about low veterinary hours.

I started volunteering at a veterinary practice at the end of May last year and submitted my VMCAS at the end of the application period so I could build up my hours. I had just shy of 200 vet hours listed on my application. I received interview invitations from both schools I applied to (RVC and Ohio State). However, I did have a few equine animal experience hours and thousands of hours of research experience in mouse labs to balance it out.

I went to an Open Day at RVC last year and they stated very clearly that they do not care how many experience hours you have as long as you meet their minimum (2 weeks veterinary experience plus 2 weeks in another animal environment - eg lab, stables, farms, kennels, zoo - within the 18 months before applying). Similarly, UC Davis says they only care that you meet their minimum of 180 veterinary hours (I saw this information posted on SDN). So, I think if you apply to schools that don't place such a strong emphasis on having 500-1000 +hours, you could have a decent shot. If you look out for schools that are fine with applicants having fewer hours, I would consider contacting them to ask about if/how they can accommodate disabled students.

As for how to ask for a LOR from the vet you'll only have worked with for a short while, my advice is to make sure from the start that they know that you're planning to apply to vet school. Be very proactive, ask loads of questions and make sure you show your interest. If you get on well with him/her and demonstrate your interest, there's a good chance you can get a great recommendation from them. I would just make sure you bring it up with them early enough that they have at least 3 or 4 weeks to write it before the deadline. If you feel comfortable enough, you could even casually mention after your first day or two that you plan to apply this cycle and a LOR from them would help. Just use your intuition.

Good luck with everything! I think it should all be possible if you find the right school.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Thanks everyone, here's an update.

I called a handful of schools and was transferred immediately to the assistant deans (I didn't complain). Each one was very nice and every conversation went like this: "We've never had someone start the vet med program in a wheelchair. I'm sure we can make it work, but it will take some adjustment and experimentation."

A few schools referenced a girl in a chair who's beginning at Wisconsin this fall, but for most, I would be the first to roll through their programs. I found that really amazing and quite strange. It's 2015, how could I be the first person in a wheelchair to go through a vet med program? There's been students who were injured while in the program, or developed a debilitating condition, but none that actually began the first year in a wheelchair.

I made sure to bring up the point that I'm familiar with minimum standards, whether it be human or animal medicine, and inquired about large animals requirements of the curricula: restraining horses and stuff like that. While entertaining for others to watch, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't end to well for me to restrain a horse. But hey, I might not feel anything .

I'm currently beginning the slimming process of my personal statement, I'm 1241 characters (~203 words according to Wolfram Alpha) over. If anyone is willing to read mine and lend some insight, I'd be very grateful.

 

[WildZoo]

There's a list of personal statement readers in this thread
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/personal-statement-readers.1115065/

 

[dyachei]

I will gladly look it over if you send it. Might take a bit to go through but I will do it

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

There's a list of personal statement readers in this thread
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/personal-statement-readers.1115065/

Thank you thank you! I PM'ed you and a few others.

I will gladly look it over if you send it. Might take a bit to go through but I will do it

You're awesome. I went ahead and sent you a link to the personal statement through PM.

 

[eventualeventer]

Hi, sorry I'm late to the thread. I'm currently on leave (got really sick this winter) but going back in August. Just to give you a bit of background, I have suspected mitochondrial cytopathy, which causes proximal muscle weakness that gets worse with use/exercise. I can still stand and walk short distances (most days), but have somewhat diminished strength in my shoulders and postural muscles, which is why a manual chair has never been a good option. I also have some compromise of my diaphragm and accessory muscles of respiration. I can breathe on my own but gradually get fatigued and hypercapnic after a while, especially if talking, so I use non-invasive positive pressure ventilation intermittently through the day with a mouthpiece. I just switched from a cheap generic power chair to a rehab chair, which gives better support and is actually easier to maneuver. My education issues are complicated by some of the other stuff that hopefully you don't have - autonomic dysfunction, fatigue, etc.

I definitely think you can do it, but I do think that experience is especially important for you to get in whatever time remains before application and matriculation so that you can articulate to the school exactly what you need. Realize that few, if any, of the instructors and administrators at the school have ever spent significant time in a wheelchair or lived with someone in a wheelchair. Like you when you first had your injury, it is very likely that they have a vague idea of "yeah, being in a wheelchair has got to be tough, and stairs won't work", but unlikely that they have a good idea of the details (especially when there are so many different reasons one can end up in a chair).

There are many people who have been enormously helpful to me, but you will still encounter the attitude in the profession that vets are supposed to be 100% OK physically. *shrug* They are in the minority and don't make the rules, but you still have to be mentally prepared and have a plan for how you are going to deal with doubters.

UCD c/o 2017 has a student with a partial SCI who splits their time between a walker and a manual chair, and has done so since application/admission.

If you want to talk more privately, I'm happy to email or talk on the phone (PM for details).

 

[variegata]

Thanks everyone, here's an update.

I called a handful of schools and was transferred immediately to the assistant deans (I didn't complain). Each one was very nice and every conversation went like this: "We've never had someone start the vet med program in a wheelchair. I'm sure we can make it work, but it will take some adjustment and experimentation."

A few schools referenced a girl in a chair who's beginning at Wisconsin this fall, but for most, I would be the first to roll through their programs. I found that really amazing and quite strange. It's 2015, how could I be the first person in a wheelchair to go through a vet med program? There's been students who were injured while in the program, or developed a debilitating condition, but none that actually began the first year in a wheelchair.

I made sure to bring up the point that I'm familiar with minimum standards, whether it be human or animal medicine, and inquired about large animals requirements of the curricula: restraining horses and stuff like that. While entertaining for others to watch, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't end to well for me to restrain a horse. But hey, I might not feel anything .

I'm currently beginning the slimming process of my personal statement, I'm 1241 characters (~203 words according to Wolfram Alpha) over. If anyone is willing to read mine and lend some insight, I'd be very grateful.

For Wisconsin, there was a girl in the class one or two years after me (I'm a 2014er) that was in a wheelchair. They made a number of upgrades to the facilities, as well as modifying some of the hands-on stuff to make it feasible for her. I think she should have been through most/all of the curriculum by now, so speaking with the folks in the Office of Academic Affairs at UW (or even trying to get in touch with her directly) would be something to consider.

 

[themajor]

Unless things changed in the past year, Davis doesn't really consider experience in your application or your personal statement, but you need to hit the minimum 180 hours. You will be offered an interview based on your science and last 45 units GPAs and Quantitative GRE score. I think your PPI evaluation is like 5% of your application score. The interview is MMI style and you will be offered admission based on your interview alone. So, if you can get over 180 hours, and interview well, you could consider applying to just Davis this cycle.

 

[Angelus9]

Wheelchair vet.: http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/02/18/frederick-co-vet-doesnt-let-a-wheelchair-slow-her-down/

VIN article on veterinarians with disabilities: http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=24500

The VIN article mentions a student at Wisconsin who is in a wheelchair and was at the time (2012) a second-year vet student. Looks like she made it! http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/coe-2015-award-winners/

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Wheelchair vet.: http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/02/18/frederick-co-vet-doesnt-let-a-wheelchair-slow-her-down/

VIN article on veterinarians with disabilities: http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=24500

Thank you.

I've already read both those articles. Not to discount the first one, but I feel it's misrepresenting the disabled community. That lady fell down the stairs, broke her leg, and temporarily used a wheelchair. By the way it sounds in the article, she relied on her vet tech to push her around, etc, etc. Again, not to say her situation was any less than mine, but there's quite a big difference between a spinal cord injury and a temporary injury. If I had to guess, she probably used a big clunky hospital chair and never truly got used to life in a chair. The title gets to me, it's inspiration porn.

I'm hoping I can find a vet with spina bifida or an SCI. Our situations would align quite a bit better.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Hi, sorry I'm late to the thread. I'm currently on leave (got really sick this winter) but going back in August. Just to give you a bit of background, I have suspected mitochondrial cytopathy, which causes proximal muscle weakness that gets worse with use/exercise. I can still stand and walk short distances (most days), but have somewhat diminished strength in my shoulders and postural muscles, which is why a manual chair has never been a good option. I also have some compromise of my diaphragm and accessory muscles of respiration. I can breathe on my own but gradually get fatigued and hypercapnic after a while, especially if talking, so I use non-invasive positive pressure ventilation intermittently through the day with a mouthpiece. I just switched from a cheap generic power chair to a rehab chair, which gives better support and is actually easier to maneuver. My education issues are complicated by some of the other stuff that hopefully you don't have - autonomic dysfunction, fatigue, etc.

I definitely think you can do it, but I do think that experience is especially important for you to get in whatever time remains before application and matriculation so that you can articulate to the school exactly what you need. Realize that few, if any, of the instructors and administrators at the school have ever spent significant time in a wheelchair or lived with someone in a wheelchair. Like you when you first had your injury, it is very likely that they have a vague idea of "yeah, being in a wheelchair has got to be tough, and stairs won't work", but unlikely that they have a good idea of the details (especially when there are so many different reasons one can end up in a chair).

There are many people who have been enormously helpful to me, but you will still encounter the attitude in the profession that vets are supposed to be 100% OK physically. *shrug* They are in the minority and don't make the rules, but you still have to be mentally prepared and have a plan for how you are going to deal with doubters.

UCD c/o 2017 has a student with a partial SCI who splits their time between a walker and a manual chair, and has done so since application/admission.

If you want to talk more privately, I'm happy to email or talk on the phone (PM for details).

I'm a T12/L1 SCI, so my injury is pretty low. I don't deal with autonomic dysreflexia, but fatigue, nerve pain, and skin integrity issues I do deal with. I actually had to cancel major summer plans due to a pressure sore, which still isn't completely healed; that's the worst part of this injury. You get used to life in a chair and adapt, but when you're bedridden for months at a time, that just plain sucks and is a total loss of freedom.

You ever try the power-assist wheels for a manual chair? A lot of quads with very little arm mobility use them and love them, because power chairs are tanks. I hope you get the chair situation figured out and get one that works well for you.

Sending you a PM now. I'd love to talk, and thanks for reaching out.

 

[Angelus9]

Thank you.

I've already read both those articles.

....

I'm hoping I can find a vet with spina bifida or an SCI. Our situations would align quite a bit better.

Well, the Wisconsin vet school student does have spina bifida. What exactly are you looking for?

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Well, the Wisconsin vet school student does have spina bifida. What exactly are you looking for?

Totally skipped over that, thanks. Going to reach out to Wisconsin.

 

[twelvetigers]

I could swear that I heard from someone that OKSU was going to have a student in a wheelchair and they were going to have to make a few changes to accommodate them - mostly the anatomy lab entrance. But now I'm not so sure.

 

[Lupin21]

@wheelin2vetmed , we will be having a student wheelchair bound in the incoming c/o 2019 here at OKState. I haven't met her yet, but I can say that the school is making quite a few upgrades to accommodate her, so we will soon be a more welcoming school for those with disabilities. I am usually an incoming class cheermeister, so I will see what she has to say if you want updates as the year progresses.

I could swear that I heard from someone that OKSU was going to have a student in a wheelchair and they were going to have to make a few changes to accommodate them - mostly the anatomy lab entrance. But now I'm not so sure.

Yes, there is an incoming student.

 

[twelvetigers]

Yes, there is an incoming student.

Ohhh... doy. I obviously didn't read all that wall. hah.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Hey everyone,

Started shadowing the vet this week. Very cool guy and we have a lot to talk about outside of vet medicine as well. Vet techs and support staff are all very nice and fun to be around. I've been showing up just for the surgery portion of the day, which has been relatively short. I expressed my interest in doing anything and everything, even if it involves researching stuff or whatever else he can think of.

I'm checking in via email at the end of the week, but it sounds like I'll be able to drop by at the beginning of the day starting next week to see more than just surgeries.

 

[IZZY222]

I wanted to give you an update on Mississippi State. Apparently a few years back, a student jumped from a tree and fractured both their ankles the second semester of first year. They were in a wheelchair/walker all the way up to the end of 4th year because of surgeries. The school accommodated him and is very wheelchair friendly.

 

[scatter.brained.pre-dvm]

You can do it!

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

You can do it!

She's awesome! Thanks for sharing.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Hey everyone, quick update:

The vet I'm shadowing agreed to write me a LOR, so I'm doing with those, yey! I was worried about that vet one; this doctor really pulled through at the best possible time both for letting me shadow and for writing a letter after such short notice. Hope the letter's not super general, but he really doesn't know me that well yet.

Shadowing's been going well, really enjoying the surgical aspect of the job. Right up my alley!

Also submitted my VMCAS last night, ahhh. I modified my schools a bit and ended up choosing Royal, Colorado, Wisconsin, Tufts, and Minnesota. Time to do sups and cram for my GRE which I'm taking in August.

Sure hope all this works out, it's damn expensive to apply. ‎

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Because it's slightly related: A girl on the APVMA page asked a pretty interesting question recently. She wants to apply for veterinary school, but is also considering getting a service animal for her disability. While everyone replied with the "reasonable accommodations" answer, she wanted to know if going to veterinary school with a service animal would be wise.

Does anyone have experience with a classmate of yourself having a service animal in veterinary school? What accommodations are made for labs, clinical rotations, etc?

 

[shortnsweet]

Because it's slightly related: A girl on the APVMA page asked a pretty interesting question recently. She wants to apply for veterinary school, but is also considering getting a service animal for her disability. While everyone replied with the "reasonable accommodations" answer, she wanted to know if going to veterinary school with a service animal would be wise.

Does anyone have experience with a classmate of yourself having a service animal in veterinary school? What accommodations are made for labs, clinical rotations, etc?

Had people training service dogs in vet school, so they were allowed pretty much everywhere. Didn't know anyone who needed one though.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Because it's slightly related: A girl on the APVMA page asked a pretty interesting question recently. She wants to apply for veterinary school, but is also considering getting a service animal for her disability. While everyone replied with the "reasonable accommodations" answer, she wanted to know if going to veterinary school with a service animal would be wise.

Does anyone have experience with a classmate of yourself having a service animal in veterinary school? What accommodations are made for labs, clinical rotations, etc?

Great question. I'd like to hear the responses, but here's my take on the matter. Keep in mind I have a service dog and can only speak regarding my disability (paraplegic). A quadriplegic with no arm mobility or a blind individual will have far different needs and rely on their animal more and for different reasons.

If it's a well trained service dog, it shouldn't be a problem. Technically, the school has to make accommodations due to the ADA (it's the law). With that said, and being at a university with a large disability resource center, I see a lot of "service dogs" that shouldn't be working (in my opinion). If your dog can't hold a down stay indefinitely until you release him, can't refrain from whining or barking, and just overall can't behave, he/she shouldn't be working in normal day-to-day settings that require abilities like that to be out of the way and not a distraction. CCI made a great point, one that I truly believe: "An awesome service dog should be "invisible." I did a lot of research on service dog organizations post-injury. I'm kind of partial to CCI, but they do absolutely amazing work and have been doing it since the 70s; they truly have it down to a science. There's other good organizations out there, but I have my thoughts about making pet dogs service animals. Training a dog to be good is one thing, but further selection and refinement to be a top notch service animal is a whole 'nother ballgame.

I went a little off topic, sorry. For vet school, in classroom settings my dog will be chilling at my feet hanging out, or in a corner; wherever the professor prefers. For labs and hospital work, if the school allows, I'll either bring my crate and semi-permanently house it in an area, or find a location, like an office, where I can secure his leash. Corky loves his crate, so he has no problem going into his little house for longer periods of time.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Great question. I'd like to hear the responses, but here's my take on the matter. Keep in mind I have a service dog and can only speak regarding my disability (paraplegic). A quadriplegic with no arm mobility or a blind individual will have far different needs and rely on their animal more and for different reasons.

If it's a well trained service dog, it shouldn't be a problem. Technically, the school has to make accommodations due to the ADA (it's the law). With that said, and being at a university with a large disability resource center, I see a lot of "service dogs" that shouldn't be working (in my opinion). If your dog can't hold a down stay indefinitely until you release him, can't refrain from whining or barking, and just overall can't behave, he/she shouldn't be working in normal day-to-day settings that require abilities like that to be out of the way and not a distraction. CCI made a great point, one that I truly believe: "An awesome service dog should be "invisible." I did a lot of research on service dog organizations post-injury. I'm kind of partial to CCI, but they do absolutely amazing work and have been doing it since the 70s; they truly have it down to a science. There's other good organizations out there, but I have my thoughts about making pet dogs service animals. Training a dog to be good is one thing, but further selection and refinement to be a top notch service animal is a whole 'nother ballgame.

I went a little off topic, sorry. For vet school, in classroom settings my dog will be chilling at my feet, just hanging out, or in a corner; wherever the professor prefers. For labs and hospital work, if the school allows, I'll either bring my crate and semi-permanently house it in an area, or find a location, like an office, where I can secure his leash. Corky loves his crate, so he has no problem going into his little house for longer periods of time.

Sounds like you have a good plan. I know there are some instances where the handler cannot be away from rhe4service animal-seizure dogs and whatnot I suppose. What do you think would happen when it came to surgery and other rotations?

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Sounds like you have a good plan. I know there are some instances where the handler cannot be away from rhe4service animal-seizure dogs and whatnot I suppose. What do you think would happen when it came to surgery and other rotations?

That's tough, couldn't really tell you with any certainty because I don't deal with those issues. I think the first order of business would be for the individual to assess their disability/abilities and really think if it potentially prevents them from being a vet. If recurrent and frequent seizures are an issue, I could see that as safety problem not only for the student surgeon, but for the patient, etc, etc. I'm sure accommodations may be made to address those topics before they become an issue, but the least important one at that point would be the service dog. At the end of the day, there are minimum standards, whether it be human medicine or animal medicine. If those standards cannot be met with little to no accommodations, I don't personally see an issue with denying access to certain aspects of a program.

It's hard these days, because no one wants to offend the disabled or get in legal trouble, but if I was a quadriplegic with no arm mobility or fine motor control, I would accept the fact that surgery is out of the question. It's not just about me at that point, but the safety of others.

Corky is fine around the OR. He actually hangs out in a corner at the clinic I'm shadowing while dogs are in surgery. No issues.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Because it's slightly related: A girl on the APVMA page asked a pretty interesting question recently. She wants to apply for veterinary school, but is also considering getting a service animal for her disability. While everyone replied with the "reasonable accommodations" answer, she wanted to know if going to veterinary school with a service animal would be wise.

Does anyone have experience with a classmate of yourself having a service animal in veterinary school? What accommodations are made for labs, clinical rotations, etc?

I had a classmate with a service animal during my first year. I dunno how clinics worked, but the dog just came in for labs without a problem.

 

[LetItSnow]

I'm hard-pressed to see how an appropriately trained and utilized service dog would be a problem.

I mean, sure, there are situations where it would be tricky to deal with (a small exam room with a dog-aggressive patient.......), but I would think that anyone with a legitimate service dog for any reasonable length of time would have learned how to handle those types of situations, and they'd talk it through with the rotation coordinator ahead of time.

Questions about things like whether a service dog could be in surgery or not really revolve around what tasks/roles the service dog is fulfilling. I don't have any trouble imagining a service dog in surgery under some circumstances, and I wouldn't allow it in my own operatory under others. Just depends.

Corky is fine around the OR. He actually hangs out in a corner at the clinic I'm shadowing while dogs are in surgery. No issues.

Is that a private practice clinic, or a big teaching hospital OR? Because those are very different environments. At UMN, for instance, when you go into the anesthesia/surgery area, you initially walk into a long room with .. I dunno ... maybe 8 prep tables along one wall, and all the operatories more or less off of the other wall (and/or down a short maze of hallways). During a typical day it is an absolute clusterf*ck in that place with people going every which way, numerous animals in various states of the process, techs and doctors and students and .... it can be one of the busiest, most jumbled and hectic places in the hospital. Usually most of those 8 tables are in use, plus there might be 4-5 surgeries going on at once, plus animals in recovery kennels... and with 1-3 people at each of those tables... you can imagine what it's like. It's very, very different than a private practice where they might use their treatment room as prep and have one surgery room with one table. There would not really <be> a corner to 'hang out in' for Corky (at UMN anyway). That said, I think people would make it happen - somehow.

Anyway, I fall back to what I said above: a lot will depend on the role of the service dog. I don't see any major issues in the didactic portion of training, so long as the dog is generally comfortable around a variety of other types of animals (horses, cows, cats, other dogs, etc.). In the senior year, I know that UMN's attitude, at least, would be "let's make it work" and then they'd just make sure every rotation coordinator had a heads up sufficiently far in advance to consider what has to happen to make the rotation doable for the student. Over and over I was impressed with the school's willingness to find solutions for students with issues.

The one thing they <wouldn't> do - I would guess - is change the curriculum. The requirements to graduate are set; they would expect that student to fulfill all those requirements, including whatever core rotations apply, and they would expect that student to be able to meet the requirements to pass each of those rotations. But they'd bend over backwards to find a way to make that happen.

I'm under the impression that ADA only requires reasonable accommodations but that the basic tasks of any given job need to be able to be accomplished (with those 'reasonable accommodations'). But they are <not> required to get rid of the tasks in order to accommodate someone. That does, I think, give vet schools the ability to say "sorry, your disability prevents you from fulfilling the basic requirements even with accommodations," doesn't it? I've seen deaf people as vets. I've seen wheelchair-restricted people in vet school. I've never seen a blind person in vet school or as a vet. Not sure how that would work.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Is that a private practice clinic, or a big teaching hospital OR?

Very small private practice. I absolutely agree that a large teaching hospital is completely different. At the end of the day, I don't rely on Corky nearly as much as someone with a more severe disability. Yes, he carries the extra stuff from the grocery store when there's too many bags, picks stuff up if it's in a weird spot, and opens doors if awkward positioning is involved, but at the end of the day, I can get around just fine without him. During my interview with CCI, I told them that I don't necessarily "need" a service dog, but the help and companionship would be appreciated, and they agreed.

For my situation, especially regarding a hectic teaching hospital environment, if there's a spot I can put his kennel, I'll just have him chill in there. He'll be out of the way and the last thing I want to deal with when trying to learn about intensive topics is keeping a constant eye on him. I have to do that 24/7, and while a classroom setting is one thing, surgeries, 50 animals in the same area, and tons of students and faculty running around is another.

I believe you are right about the ADA. I'm not too familiar with all the laws, but yes, there's minimum standards. If I can't fulfill those, I can't be a vet. What it comes down to (I spoke with some schools) is deciding what minimum standards are absolutely necessary to ensure success. Maybe some schools require students to learn how to rope and restrain horses. Can I do that? Probably not. Would not learning that prevent me from being a small animal surgeon or pathologist where I'd never need to use that skill? Nope. However, if I was totally blind or had no use of my arms and couldn't set a catheter or intubate an animal, that's a pretty big deal.

This is going to be a learning experience for me and the schools, especially if I get accepted somewhere that's never dealt with a student in a wheelchair. There's going to be lots of trial and error, but I'll make it happen.

 

[Coquette22]

FWIW, There was an AVC 2016er with a service dog. She didn't need him full time, and he hung out in the administration office when she was doing something that he couldn't be around. The staff loved him.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I'm hard-pressed to see how an appropriately trained and utilized service dog would be a problem.

I mean, sure, there are situations where it would be tricky to deal with (a small exam room with a dog-aggressive patient.......), but I would think that anyone with a legitimate service dog for any reasonable length of time would have learned how to handle those types of situations, and they'd talk it through with the rotation coordinator ahead of time.

Questions about things like whether a service dog could be in surgery or not really revolve around what tasks/roles the service dog is fulfilling. I don't have any trouble imagining a service dog in surgery under some circumstances, and I wouldn't allow it in my own operatory under others. Just depends.



Is that a private practice clinic, or a big teaching hospital OR? Because those are very different environments. At UMN, for instance, when you go into the anesthesia/surgery area, you initially walk into a long room with .. I dunno ... maybe 8 prep tables along one wall, and all the operatories more or less off of the other wall (and/or down a short maze of hallways). During a typical day it is an absolute clusterf*ck in that place with people going every which way, numerous animals in various states of the process, techs and doctors and students and .... it can be one of the busiest, most jumbled and hectic places in the hospital. Usually most of those 8 tables are in use, plus there might be 4-5 surgeries going on at once, plus animals in recovery kennels... and with 1-3 people at each of those tables... you can imagine what it's like. It's very, very different than a private practice where they might use their treatment room as prep and have one surgery room with one table. There would not really <be> a corner to 'hang out in' for Corky (at UMN anyway). That said, I think people would make it happen - somehow.

Anyway, I fall back to what I said above: a lot will depend on the role of the service dog. I don't see any major issues in the didactic portion of training, so long as the dog is generally comfortable around a variety of other types of animals (horses, cows, cats, other dogs, etc.). In the senior year, I know that UMN's attitude, at least, would be "let's make it work" and then they'd just make sure every rotation coordinator had a heads up sufficiently far in advance to consider what has to happen to make the rotation doable for the student. Over and over I was impressed with the school's willingness to find solutions for students with issues.

The one thing they <wouldn't> do - I would guess - is change the curriculum. The requirements to graduate are set; they would expect that student to fulfill all those requirements, including whatever core rotations apply, and they would expect that student to be able to meet the requirements to pass each of those rotations. But they'd bend over backwards to find a way to make that happen.

I'm under the impression that ADA only requires reasonable accommodations but that the basic tasks of any given job need to be able to be accomplished (with those 'reasonable accommodations'). But they are <not> required to get rid of the tasks in order to accommodate someone. That does, I think, give vet schools the ability to say "sorry, your disability prevents you from fulfilling the basic requirements even with accommodations," doesn't it? I've seen deaf people as vets. I've seen wheelchair-restricted people in vet school. I've never seen a blind person in vet school or as a vet. Not sure how that would work.

Yeah, I can think of jobs a blind veterinarian could potentially have (government, academia?), but I guess if you simply cannot meet the graduation requirements, you can't have the degree.

Very small private practice. I absolutely agree that a large teaching hospital is completely different. At the end of the day, I don't rely on Corky nearly as much as someone with a more severe disability. Yes, he carries the extra stuff from the grocery store when there's too many bags, picks stuff up if it's in a weird spot, and opens doors if awkward positioning is involved, but at the end of the day, I can get around just fine without him. During my interview with CCI, I told them that I don't necessarily "need" a service dog, but the help and companionship would be appreciated, and they agreed.

For my situation, especially regarding a hectic teaching hospital environment, if there's a spot I can put his kennel, I'll just have him chill in there. He'll be out of the way and the last thing I want to deal with when trying to learn about intensive topics is keeping a constant eye on him. I have to do that 24/7, and while a classroom setting is one thing, surgeries, 50 animals in the same area, and tons of students and faculty running around is another.

I believe you are right about the ADA. I'm not too familiar with all the laws, but yes, there's minimum standards. If I can't fulfill those, I can't be a vet. What it comes down to (I spoke with some schools) is deciding what minimum standards are absolutely necessary to ensure success. Maybe some schools require students to learn how to rope and restrain horses. Can I do that? Probably not. Would not learning that prevent me from being a small animal surgeon or pathologist where I'd never need to use that skill? Nope. However, if I was totally blind or had no use of my arms and couldn't set a catheter or intubate an animal, that's a pretty big deal.

This is going to be a learning experience for me and the schools, especially if I get accepted somewhere that's never dealt with a student in a wheelchair. There's going to be lots of trial and error, but I'll make it happen.

I think it's pretty cool that you might be the guinea pig for your school. You could have a lot of say in how future students who need accommodations approach veterinary school.

 

[LetItSnow]

For my situation, especially regarding a hectic teaching hospital environment, if there's a spot I can put his kennel, I'll just have him chill in there.

If I were in charge, and if I had to guess this is my bet what UMN would have done, and I hope what other places would do... is just have you house him in the regular hospital kennels, assuming they have space.

At UMN we had an entire ward that was mostly just used for blood donor dogs, some staff dogs, etc. It was never more than 25% full. It would have been trivial to just say "This is an easy accommodation we can make for a legitimate ADA case" and it would solve the problem without costing anybody anything.

I gotta think most teaching hospitals would be able to handle that. It doesn't put them at risk of other students trying to abuse it, because there's a clearly defined ADA need that doesn't apply to the rest of the student population.

However, if I [...] couldn't set a catheter or intubate an animal, that's a pretty big deal.

Neither of those are veterinarian-specific tasks, so it's not an unreasonable accommodation to know that someone else (i.e. a technician) has to do them. Sure, people always tell the vet "you're the buck-stops-here person, and if the techs can't do it, you can't." But for an ADA situation? Meh. The only tasks absolutely required that couldn't be accommodated would be those that only a veterinarian can legally carry out that were part of a job you were hired to do.

This is going to be a learning experience for me and the schools, especially if I get accepted somewhere that's never dealt with a student in a wheelchair. There's going to be lots of trial and error, but I'll make it happen.

It will be fine. I think in the end you're going to find it to be no more challenging than dealing with a wheelchair in any other situation. No worse, no easier. But then, I haven't done it. And my guess? The tight-knit nature of a vet school class will help.

 

[thecatastrophist]

As somebody who has been in the instructor position, as well as a fellow student who knows others who were in need of significant disability accommodations, the answer of whether something like a service dog would work would, of course, depend on the service dog and the nature of the disability that the person has, but I don't think that in most cases it's a problem at all. As others have mentioned, he can be housed in a kennel or other room when he can't be directly with the person.

In terms of national laws, the ADA requires that reasonable accommodations are made, reasonable being that a student who has these accommodations still meets the same educational standards as other students in the end. Common, less severe accommodations I've encountered are expanded test-taking time. Having that extra hour makes it possible for a student to complete an exam that they wouldn't be able to otherwise, but in the end, they're held to the same standards as everyone else. They still have to learn the same things that other students do in order to get the same grade as another student without the accommodation. If an accommodation would, however, impair that student from successfully achieving those learning standards, then that accommodation isn't made. Absence leniency for medical problems is another common accommodation I've encountered, and there's no problem making it for students in the case of lecture--they still have to learn the same amount of material, I'm just not docking attendance points if they're too ill to come into lecture that day. But, the same doesn't necessarily go for something like an internship, where part of the learning experience is being there and learning whatever skill is essential to that internship.

It might be a little bit of adjustment for faculty in veterinary school to have a student who is wheelchair-bound, or a student who relies on a service dog. But it's really less trial-and-error or treating the student like a "guinea pig" than you'd think. Universities employ disability specialists. They're the ones who receive the paperwork and determine what accommodations are needed, then work with faculty to determine how to make those accommodations reasonably. There'll be a lot of communication between vet school faculty and these disability specialists at first, but my experience is that if instructors need help on this, all they need to do is communicate the expectations they have of their class and any potential problems to disability resources, and then the rest gets taken care of. The main thing I'd be concerned about with a wheelchair-bound student would be the accessibility of the teaching hospital, which is simply something that you can call schools about beforehand.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

It might be a little bit of adjustment for faculty in veterinary school to have a student who is wheelchair-bound, or a student who relies on a service dog. But it's really less trial-and-error or treating the student like a "guinea pig" than you'd think. Universities employ disability specialists. They're the ones who receive the paperwork and determine what accommodations are needed, then work with faculty to determine how to make those accommodations reasonably. There'll be a lot of communication between vet school faculty and these disability specialists at first, but my experience is that if instructors need help on this, all they need to do is communicate the expectations they have of their class and any potential problems to disability resources, and then the rest gets taken care of. The main thing I'd be concerned about with a wheelchair-bound student would be the accessibility of the teaching hospital, which is simply something that you can call schools about beforehand.

I've contacted the schools, and honestly, I don't think it will be an issue at all. Getting around, I surprise people. My wheelchair is extremely small and lightweight. There hasn't been a door yet that I've encountered that I can't get through, and sometimes I'm able to fit in non-handicap bathroom stalls and stuff like that. So mobility-wise, I think I'm good.

Getting myself into proper positioning above exam/OR tables is something that will need to be addressed. I'm pretty confident most universities have equipment that is height adjustable, but I was also thinking that maybe I could get a grant for a dedicated standing wheelchair that remains in the teaching hospital. That would enable me to get into an upright position, and the chair would remain clean. My current chair goes with me everywhere, so the wheels are likely not the cleanest surfaces.

 

[LetItSnow]

Getting myself into proper positioning above exam/OR tables is something that will need to be addressed. I'm pretty confident most universities have equipment that is height adjustable, but I was also thinking that maybe I could get a grant for a dedicated standing wheelchair that remains in the teaching hospital. That would enable me to get into an upright position, and the chair would remain clean. My current chair goes with me everywhere, so the wheels are likely not the cleanest surfaces.

That's just always going to be a challenge because for many animals you have to use a restrainer .... and it's going to be constantly awkward for them if it's a low table, and the floor is probably too low for you. So a standing wheelchair <may> end up being a practical necessity even after school.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

That's just always going to be a challenge because for many animals you have to use a restrainer .... and it's going to be constantly awkward for them if it's a low table, and the floor is probably too low for you. So a standing wheelchair <may> end up being a practical necessity even after school.

I'll get down on the floor if I have to! Takes me 2 seconds to transfer out of my chair and onto the floor.