Knowing what you know now, would you have pursued md/do school?

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I would have stayed away from healthcare altogether.
 
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I'd probably be in software development. Either that or just focused on chemistry, maybe teach that at a small university.
 
No. I would have done whatever it took to be a pilot instead.
 
Probably not. Healthcare is not what it used to be. It used to be difficult to get accepted but when you graduate you are guaranteed a job. That was the trade off.

I certainly don't regret not pursuing an MD. They have it rough. After a while things like status, money don't matter as much. It is about having the time to spend with your family and friends. Having a peace of mind matters too.
 
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I'd say no. Looking back, had I followed the MD/DO timeline and graduated in 2012, at the very earliest, I would have been able to practice medicine July 2015. Given all that I've accomplished in that timespan and my own career outlook, and seeing how much my hospitalists work (a lot), and seeing what my new hospitalists are doing (mostly evenings/nights/overnights) vs. what I'm doing (AM shift, leave work at work, 3 days off each week)...I'd rather be doing what I'm doing now.

Sure, extra money is nice...but I think I have really good balance between work, compensation, and life.

Like BMB said....MD/DO's have it rough, specifically inpatient hospitalists. Maybe if I did derm or something with outsized compensation and cushy clinic hours, but then that's not an apples to apples comparison in my book.
 
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No, far too much time to do that ... my current situation wouldn't really allow that ...

Would've went into engineering ... 4 years and you are done, and can always move up to 100k+/year
 
There's my answer, I would have changed my outlook and done IT/systems engineering/etc...

It was a tough call, though. Back when I started undergrad, it was post .com crash and there were unemployed IT people EVERYWHERE and it looked like the .com economy would never, ever come back the way it was leading up to the boom.
 
I wish I would have started having kids at 15 and gotten on Medicaid. I didn't realize until I became a pharmacist that work is completely optional for a lot of people.
 
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trailerpark said:
I wish I would have started having kids at 15 and gotten on Medicaid. I didn't realize until I became a pharmacist that work is completely optional for a lot of people.
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Marrying rich is not an option?
 
Nah. I used to be considered a Linux guru in high school and undergrad. My true calling is system admin or software engineering.
 
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Apparently there's been a shift and Med students now are not doing full gross am dissections/courses now. It's like a mix of digital instruction and partial dissections.

I can't remember the article I read maybe 5 years ago, anyone want to google that for me? (I'm tapping this at a red light).
 
Hospital docs do have it bad, but with such a shortage in primary care, urgent care, and easier to get into specialities such psychiatry do allow good hours, higher pay, respect, and job stability
 
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I still think of trying to go to med school (assuming I could get accepted somewhere), I'm young and single and have the energy. The biggest thing would be being accepted and going into more debt. I've considered PA school as well and direct entry NP programs too, but probably more down the line if I hit a midlife crisis or something.

I don't regret pharmacy though. What I realized now though is clinical pharmacy seems to be a joke at some places. We're sold on this idea that you're a practitioner seeing patients, saving lives, and being able to use what you know. In most cases you just do counselling, dose a few medications (vanc, warfarin, etc), sometimes go on rounds and do chart reviews. You basically do physician gruntwork when it comes to dosing (many don't want to do that) and at most you review things to make recommendations that either won't be read, taken seriously, or implemented. Unless you're at a progressive practice site clinical pharmacy seems quite boring and overhyped (at least to me), just my opinions. If you want to be a clinician and are sold on the idea of being a clinician as a pharmacist I think that's a scam, so few jobs out there are like that. You'll need to do a residency with most "clinical" jobs not requiring that in order to do the job functions, as like I said before you dose a handful of drugs and review things to make recommendations on that you should know straight out of school. Like I said, some very progressive (and very few) jobs out there have you working like an actual clinician seeing patients, prescribing drugs, managing diseases and working at the top of what you know how to do, but by and large most from what I've seen are not like that. Mid-level practioners with master's degrees have more pull, power, and clout since they can usually actually do something more than just passing on a recommendation and maybe monitoring a few INR's or vanc levels if (and only if) you get consulted to do that. Clinical pharmacy, to me, is only going to be fulfilling unless I'm at a progressive practice site and can fully use what I know and am empowered to use what I know. The scope of practice in the vast majority of places, given the education and things you could do as you were educated to do, is severely limited.

Knowing what I know now I would have gone to PA/NP/MD/DO school if I wanted to really do anything more clinically relevant and fulfilling (which I still think about). Making recommendations, working out of a cubicle looking at charts and lab values (and not seeing patients or doing any real assessments), and doing some medical gruntwork isn't what I'd want to do with a doctorate specializing in safe and effective medication use. I was sold on the residency idea as a student, and still think about it, but the more and more I do on rotations the less and less I feel that it's beneficial given the jobs you get as a clinical pharmacist and the years of training, stress, and lower pay. I wish I understood that more prior to school and understood how currently pharmacist are still very very very limited. I feel that community pharmacists are usually able to make more of an impact since you get to talk to patients and in most cases can provide things like immunizations and MTM (which is still pretty limited, but oftentimes more clinical than dosing a few drugs).

Pharmacy is still great though if you can handle retail. Good pay, fantastic hours and jobs fitting many different lifestyles (7 on 7 off, overnights, 13 hour shifts with more days off, 8 hour M-F jobs, etc). Some pharmacists may stay a little late, but by and large in my experience most still work near 40 hours a week and not 50-60+ like others do and are expected to work.
 
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Definitely not MD. Most likely computers and maybe finance careers that involve a lot of math.
 
Digsbe said:
I still think of trying to go to med school (assuming I could get accepted somewhere), I'm young and single and have the energy. The biggest thing would be being accepted and going into more debt. I've considered PA school as well and direct entry NP programs too, but probably more down the line if I hit a midlife crisis or something.

I don't regret pharmacy though. What I realized now though is clinical pharmacy seems to be a joke at some places. We're sold on this idea that you're a practitioner seeing patients, saving lives, and being able to use what you know. In most cases you just do counselling, dose a few medications (vanc, warfarin, etc), sometimes go on rounds and do chart reviews. You basically do physician gruntwork when it comes to dosing (many don't want to do that) and at most you review things to make recommendations that either won't be read, taken seriously, or implemented. Unless you're at a progressive practice site clinical pharmacy seems quite boring and overhyped (at least to me), just my opinions. If you want to be a clinician and are sold on the idea of being a clinician as a pharmacist I think that's a scam, so few jobs out there are like that. You'll need to do a residency with most "clinical" jobs not requiring that in order to do the job functions, as like I said before you dose a handful of drugs and review things to make recommendations on that you should know straight out of school. Like I said, some very progressive (and very few) jobs out there have you working like an actual clinician seeing patients, prescribing drugs, managing diseases and working at the top of what you know how to do, but by and large most from what I've seen are not like that. Mid-level practioners with master's degrees have more pull, power, and clout since they can usually actually do something more than just passing on a recommendation and maybe monitoring a few INR's or vanc levels if (and only if) you get consulted to do that. Clinical pharmacy, to me, is only going to be fulfilling unless I'm at a progressive practice site and can fully use what I know and am empowered to use what I know. The scope of practice in the vast majority of places, given the education and things you could do as you were educated to do, is severely limited.

Knowing what I know now I would have gone to PA/NP/MD/DO school if I wanted to really do anything more clinically relevant and fulfilling (which I still think about). Making recommendations, working out of a cubicle looking at charts and lab values (and not seeing patients or doing any real assessments), and doing some medical gruntwork isn't what I'd want to do with a doctorate specializing in safe and effective medication use. I was sold on the residency idea as a student, and still think about it, but the more and more I do on rotations the less and less I feel that it's beneficial given the jobs you get as a clinical pharmacist and the years of training, stress, and lower pay. I wish I understood that more prior to school and understood how currently pharmacist are still very very very limited. I feel that community pharmacists are usually able to make more of an impact since you get to talk to patients and in most cases can provide things like immunizations and MTM (which is still pretty limited, but oftentimes more clinical than dosing a few drugs).

Pharmacy is still great though if you can handle retail. Good pay, fantastic hours and jobs fitting many different lifestyles (7 on 7 off, overnights, 13 hour shifts with more days off, 8 hour M-F jobs, etc). Some pharmacists may stay a little late, but by and large in my experience most still work near 40 hours a week and not 50-60+ like others do and are expected to work.
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Excellent post. I agree with everything except the hours. Most graduates end up working for chain, which ends up being closing your cvs/Walgreens at 9 or 10pm and working weekends/holidays. I work hospital and do quite a few evening shifts
 
Computer engineering was my plan B.
 
Why does engineering come up so much? Is it just me or are those completely different fields?
 
wagrxm2000 said:
Why does engineering come up so much? Is it just me or are those completely different fields?
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It's one of the career paths, especially if you go into computers/software where you can command multiple offers before graduation and a high salary (commonly $100k+) straight out of college without having to spend an additional 4 years in professional school and graduate with $200k+ debt. Similar upsides to what you could get in pharmacy 10 years ago, now without the loans and additional schooling.

Despite the job security and high gross salary, MD is not worth it financially in my opinion due to the $250k+ loans, 8+ years of opportunity cost in earnings, malpractice insurance, and being in a higher tax bracket, work hours, and stress.
 
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Digsbe said:
I don't regret pharmacy though. What I realized now though is clinical pharmacy seems to be a joke at some places. We're sold on this idea that you're a practitioner seeing patients, saving lives, and being able to use what you know. In most cases you just do counselling, dose a few medications (vanc, warfarin, etc), sometimes go on rounds and do chart reviews. You basically do physician gruntwork when it comes to dosing (many don't want to do that) and at most you review things to make recommendations that either won't be read, taken seriously, or implemented. Unless you're at a progressive practice site clinical pharmacy seems quite boring and overhyped (at least to me), just my opinions. If you want to be a clinician and are sold on the idea of being a clinician as a pharmacist I think that's a scam, so few jobs out there are like that. You'll need to do a residency with most "clinical" jobs not requiring that in order to do the job functions, as like I said before you dose a handful of drugs and review things to make recommendations on that you should know straight out of school. Like I said, some very progressive (and very few) jobs out there have you working like an actual clinician seeing patients, prescribing drugs, managing diseases and working at the top of what you know how to do, but by and large most from what I've seen are not like that. Mid-level practioners with master's degrees have more pull, power, and clout since they can usually actually do something more than just passing on a recommendation and maybe monitoring a few INR's or vanc levels if (and only if) you get consulted to do that. Clinical pharmacy, to me, is only going to be fulfilling unless I'm at a progressive practice site and can fully use what I know and am empowered to use what I know. The scope of practice in the vast majority of places, given the education and things you could do as you were educated to do, is severely limited.
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I dunno how it was presented at your school, but I was pretty aware from the beginning that pharmacist straddled the line between legal/regulatory/dispensing and clinician work. Some rotations (and hence, some jobs) waxed and waned from one end of that spectrum to the other.

I like where that spectrum is, if I wanted to "see patients" I would have gone to PA/NP/MD/DO school. If I wanted to work in a highly regulated non-clinical environment focused on some product or service, I'd have gone to law school or something else entirely (really, anything else).

Sucks people are getting sold on the "taking over primary care" doctoring thing, but there are still schools and rotations that present reality as reality.
 
confettiflyer said:
I dunno how it was presented at your school, but I was pretty aware from the beginning that pharmacist straddled the line between legal/regulatory/dispensing and clinician work. Some rotations (and hence, some jobs) waxed and waned from one end of that spectrum to the other.

I like where that spectrum is, if I wanted to "see patients" I would have gone to PA/NP/MD/DO school. If I wanted to work in a highly regulated non-clinical environment focused on some product or service, I'd have gone to law school or something else entirely (really, anything else).

Sucks people are getting sold on the "taking over primary care" doctoring thing, but there are still schools and rotations that present reality as reality.
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I love my school, I think we got a great education and have fantastic professors. A lot of our rotations are at major academic hospitals with one being a top hospital in the nation where practice is more progressive, we also have lots of VA rotations where you do that kind of work. The unfortunate thing is those jobs are not the norm and are far and few in between. However they would mention training us for the "jobs of the future" and for "jobs that will exist but don't exist yet." From the getgo I was just planning on doing retail, fell in love with clinical work and critically thinking through patient cases and desiring to use my knowledge to help in a greater capacity. I've had a few "reality" rotations at more corporate-like hospitals where all the physicians work on contract and their pharmacy practices are more typical of what the rest of the nation is.
 
If I could go back and do it again I'd probably still choose pharmacy...but I might pick software engineering instead.
 
Pharmacy has been good to me.
 
wagrxm2000 said:
Why does engineering come up so much? Is it just me or are those completely different fields?
Click to expand...

I dont know about this. I am not sure if they really know what CS is all about or if they think cool just to do CS right now.

I took a CS class as an undergrad and it was really tough. I did not have much of a CS background and most of my classmates were a lot better than me. I decided CS wasn't for me and I moved on.
 
If you don't have to deal with customers, pharmacy is probably the easiest way to earn a 6 figure salary. Sometimes I just sit there and think to myself, "I can't believe they are paying me this much to do this job". Will it last forever? Maybe not but I am going to milk it to the end.

There are obviously a lot of problems in this profession (as you can see from my posts). The main problem is most pharmacists think pharmacy is just a job and not a career. I am not going to win this fight. I can't stop the flood with my bare hands. So I am going to milk it to the end. I am going to make my money and invest it wisely for a rainy day.
 
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Digsbe said:
I still think of trying to go to med school (assuming I could get accepted somewhere), I'm young and single and have the energy. The biggest thing would be being accepted and going into more debt. I've considered PA school as well and direct entry NP programs too, but probably more down the line if I hit a midlife crisis or something.

I don't regret pharmacy though. What I realized now though is clinical pharmacy seems to be a joke at some places. We're sold on this idea that you're a practitioner seeing patients, saving lives, and being able to use what you know. In most cases you just do counselling, dose a few medications (vanc, warfarin, etc), sometimes go on rounds and do chart reviews. You basically do physician gruntwork when it comes to dosing (many don't want to do that) and at most you review things to make recommendations that either won't be read, taken seriously, or implemented. Unless you're at a progressive practice site clinical pharmacy seems quite boring and overhyped (at least to me), just my opinions. If you want to be a clinician and are sold on the idea of being a clinician as a pharmacist I think that's a scam, so few jobs out there are like that. You'll need to do a residency with most "clinical" jobs not requiring that in order to do the job functions, as like I said before you dose a handful of drugs and review things to make recommendations on that you should know straight out of school. Like I said, some very progressive (and very few) jobs out there have you working like an actual clinician seeing patients, prescribing drugs, managing diseases and working at the top of what you know how to do, but by and large most from what I've seen are not like that. Mid-level practioners with master's degrees have more pull, power, and clout since they can usually actually do something more than just passing on a recommendation and maybe monitoring a few INR's or vanc levels if (and only if) you get consulted to do that. Clinical pharmacy, to me, is only going to be fulfilling unless I'm at a progressive practice site and can fully use what I know and am empowered to use what I know. The scope of practice in the vast majority of places, given the education and things you could do as you were educated to do, is severely limited.

Knowing what I know now I would have gone to PA/NP/MD/DO school if I wanted to really do anything more clinically relevant and fulfilling (which I still think about). Making recommendations, working out of a cubicle looking at charts and lab values (and not seeing patients or doing any real assessments), and doing some medical gruntwork isn't what I'd want to do with a doctorate specializing in safe and effective medication use. I was sold on the residency idea as a student, and still think about it, but the more and more I do on rotations the less and less I feel that it's beneficial given the jobs you get as a clinical pharmacist and the years of training, stress, and lower pay. I wish I understood that more prior to school and understood how currently pharmacist are still very very very limited. I feel that community pharmacists are usually able to make more of an impact since you get to talk to patients and in most cases can provide things like immunizations and MTM (which is still pretty limited, but oftentimes more clinical than dosing a few drugs).

Pharmacy is still great though if you can handle retail. Good pay, fantastic hours and jobs fitting many different lifestyles (7 on 7 off, overnights, 13 hour shifts with more days off, 8 hour M-F jobs, etc). Some pharmacists may stay a little late, but by and large in my experience most still work near 40 hours a week and not 50-60+ like others do and are expected to work.
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You sound like someone who should be (or should have been) in med school...
 
BMBiology said:
If you don't have to deal with customers, pharmacy is probably the easiest way to earn a 6 figure salary. Sometimes I just sit there and think to myself, "I can't believe they are paying me this much to do this job". Will it last forever? Maybe not but I am going to milk it to the end.

There are obviously a lot of problems in this profession (as you can see from my posts). The main problem is most pharmacists think pharmacy is just a job and not a career. I am not going to win this fight. I can't stop the flood with my bare hands. So I am going to milk it to the end. I am going to make my money and invest it wisely for a rainy day.
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BM. type of pharmacy do you practice?
 
W19 said:
You sound like someone who should be (or should have been) in med school...
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Maybe so, at the time of my decision I was bent on community pharmacy, but that's changed. I thought about applying for the 2016 cycle but figured I'd give my rotations a proper trial, so if I don't do residency and don't decide against retail I'll work for a year and attempt to get in during the 2017 cycle.
 
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Digsbe said:
Maybe so, at the time of my decision I was bent on community pharmacy, but that's changed. I thought about applying for the 2016 cycle but figured I'd give my rotations a proper trial, so if I don't do residency and don't decide against retail I'll work for a year and attempt to get in during the 2017 cycle.
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I'm doing it now!
 
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Digsbe said:
Maybe so, at the time of my decision I was bent on community pharmacy, but that's changed. I thought about applying for the 2016 cycle but figured I'd give my rotations a proper trial, so if I don't do residency and don't decide against retail I'll work for a year and attempt to get in during the 2017 cycle.
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Just curious, how old are you?
 
I wanted to become a DBA, database administrator. But got into pharmacy for some reason....now just finished a masters in health informatics. Hmm, not sure what to do with my life.. :p
 
I would have done comp sci if I was 18. Now that I'm 22 and did the whole 4 year thing already it's kinda hard to push myself. (Source: Am enrolled in BS Comp Sci. I don't know if it's being around of fresh out of high school kids that demotivate me, but I don't/can't retain new material as well as I used to)

It's very interesting, and so immensely useful. Some times my boyfriend and I joke about making a program that will eliminate the need for pharmacists completely, but then I go back and realize I can't even compute simple things such as method tracing correctly. He, on the other hand (a medical student who withdrew) is absolutely amazing at comp sci, and is always near the top of the class. He loves it, and sees so many potential room for growth.

Anyways, I'll update my status come Nov 15 regarding medical school. I think I was made for healthcare more honestly, pharmacy was too dry and removed from hands on patient stuff for me.

Oh and to make myself somewhat relevant to the thread I guess, I also withdrew from pharmacy school. 17k down the hole and nothing to show for it.:angelic:
 
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Looking back, I would had tried for med school if I wasn't distracted by the many things going on during my puberty and young adult years. I've already spent quite some time on the pharmacy track so I intend to finish what I started and make something out of it.

Perhaps in the next life I would be better focused.
 
VeeSee said:
No, far too much time to do that ... my current situation wouldn't really allow that ...

Would've went into engineering ... 4 years and you are done, and can always move up to 100k+/year
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It's not just that simple for engineers. I'm really starting to think it doesn't matter what you do. Everything involving higher education is becoming saturated. 2 very close people to me are engineers and they don't get paid what they should and are having a hard time finding jobs.
 
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Knowing then what I know now? I would have actually gone to high school and then done IT straight out of high school.
 
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TheFactionless said:
It's not just that simple for engineers. I'm really starting to think it doesn't matter what you do. Everything involving higher education is becoming saturated. 2 very close people to me are engineers and they don't get paid what they should and are having a hard time finding jobs.
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Depends on the discipline. I have known several mechanical engineers who took a while to find a job, and I hear that electrical isn't doing well either. Software/computer engineering is a gold mine right now. Petroleum was a gold mine until a year ago when oil prices crashed.
 
Digsbe said:
I still think of trying to go to med school (assuming I could get accepted somewhere), I'm young and single and have the energy. The biggest thing would be being accepted and going into more debt. I've considered PA school as well and direct entry NP programs too, but probably more down the line if I hit a midlife crisis or something.

I don't regret pharmacy though. What I realized now though is clinical pharmacy seems to be a joke at some places. We're sold on this idea that you're a practitioner seeing patients, saving lives, and being able to use what you know. In most cases you just do counselling, dose a few medications (vanc, warfarin, etc), sometimes go on rounds and do chart reviews. You basically do physician gruntwork when it comes to dosing (many don't want to do that) and at most you review things to make recommendations that either won't be read, taken seriously, or implemented. Unless you're at a progressive practice site clinical pharmacy seems quite boring and overhyped (at least to me), just my opinions. If you want to be a clinician and are sold on the idea of being a clinician as a pharmacist I think that's a scam, so few jobs out there are like that. You'll need to do a residency with most "clinical" jobs not requiring that in order to do the job functions, as like I said before you dose a handful of drugs and review things to make recommendations on that you should know straight out of school. Like I said, some very progressive (and very few) jobs out there have you working like an actual clinician seeing patients, prescribing drugs, managing diseases and working at the top of what you know how to do, but by and large most from what I've seen are not like that. Mid-level practioners with master's degrees have more pull, power, and clout since they can usually actually do something more than just passing on a recommendation and maybe monitoring a few INR's or vanc levels if (and only if) you get consulted to do that. Clinical pharmacy, to me, is only going to be fulfilling unless I'm at a progressive practice site and can fully use what I know and am empowered to use what I know. The scope of practice in the vast majority of places, given the education and things you could do as you were educated to do, is severely limited.

Knowing what I know now I would have gone to PA/NP/MD/DO school if I wanted to really do anything more clinically relevant and fulfilling (which I still think about). Making recommendations, working out of a cubicle looking at charts and lab values (and not seeing patients or doing any real assessments), and doing some medical gruntwork isn't what I'd want to do with a doctorate specializing in safe and effective medication use. I was sold on the residency idea as a student, and still think about it, but the more and more I do on rotations the less and less I feel that it's beneficial given the jobs you get as a clinical pharmacist and the years of training, stress, and lower pay. I wish I understood that more prior to school and understood how currently pharmacist are still very very very limited. I feel that community pharmacists are usually able to make more of an impact since you get to talk to patients and in most cases can provide things like immunizations and MTM (which is still pretty limited, but oftentimes more clinical than dosing a few drugs).

Pharmacy is still great though if you can handle retail. Good pay, fantastic hours and jobs fitting many different lifestyles (7 on 7 off, overnights, 13 hour shifts with more days off, 8 hour M-F jobs, etc). Some pharmacists may stay a little late, but by and large in my experience most still work near 40 hours a week and not 50-60+ like others do and are expected to work.
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It isn't too late! We have at least one pharmacist in my class. He is also able to work as a pharmacist on weekends/evenings and make a serious income while in school. I don't know that he could work enough to avoid needing to take loans at all, but it sounded like he doesn't so much need loans to cover living expenses.

EDIT: If you can be happy where you are and don't have a compelling reason to throw yourself back into a whole new professional training program, by all means don't. Just, if it is something you do really want to do, don't discount the possibility.
 
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Promethean said:
It isn't too late! We have at least one pharmacist in my class. He is also able to work as a pharmacist on weekends/evenings and make a serious income while in school. I don't know that he could work enough to avoid needing to take loans at all, but it sounded like he doesn't so much need loans to cover living expenses.

EDIT: If you can be happy where you are and don't have a compelling reason to throw yourself back into a whole new professional training program, by all means don't. Just, if it is something you do really want to do, don't discount the possibility.
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yeah this is me. so far I'm loving medical school... I work 3-4 days per month on the weekends. Second year is much better than first year for me as far as time goes.
 
So if I can time travel...ill just shift my pharmacy graduation date from 2012 to 2006....make a ton of money, buy a house at the bottom of the market, and have a super cushy job senior to the glut of new grads and a position secured pre-recession.
 
stoichiometrist said:
Depends on the discipline. I have known several mechanical engineers who took a while to find a job, and I hear that electrical isn't doing well either. Software/computer engineering is a gold mine right now. Petroleum was a gold mine until a year ago when oil prices crashed.
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And how long will that last? Everything is up and down. Oil and gas was great and I was being pushed towards that by many people. Now it sucks. Just like that. That happens in everything. Nothing is guaranteed in any profession.
 
confettiflyer said:
So if I can time travel...ill just shift my pharmacy graduation date from 2012 to 2006....make a ton of money, buy a house at the bottom of the market, and have a super cushy job senior to the glut of new grads and a position secured pre-recession.
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If the world economy collapsed next year, are you in the position to benefit from it? lol

Sucks for everyone tho
 
TheFactionless said:
And how long will that last? Everything is up and down. Oil and gas was great and I was being pushed towards that by many people. Now it sucks. Just like that. That happens in everything. Nothing is guaranteed in any profession.
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Also consider the fact that most pre-health kids have no interest at all in Engineering/CS etc. regardless of how great those professions are. They're more likely to look for alternative health careers than switch gears entirely. Even if RPh salaries went down to ~70-80k, they'd be making comparable salary to most other allied health fields excluding DDS.
 
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