Lacking Prelim Interviews (No Panic), Rank Order List Suggestions

[gardens421]

Have 9 Anes Interviews (6 Catagorical, 8 Advanced) Keep in mind some programs have both tracks. I only have 4 Prelim Medicine Interviews. I'm a below Average Anesthesiology Applicant as it is. Suppose I'm interested in Programs A, B, C:

Should I rank: OPTION 1 (Ranking all catagoricals first)
#1) Program A (this is catagorical only)
#2) Program B (Catagorical)
#3) Program C (Catagorical)
..#4-6 Programs D-F (Catagorical)
#7) All Advanced Programs in order of preference

Option 1 allows me to CUT MY LOSSES and NOT GAMBLE and rank all 8 Catagorical before the Advanced programs.

or OPTION 2
#1) Program A (this is catagorical only)
#2) Program B (Catagorical)
#3) Program B (Adv)
#4) Program C (Catagorical)
#5) Program C (Adv)
#6....All Others with similar trend (rank Program X catagorical, then program X adv)


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Obviously Option 2 is the the best but it's highest risk of scrambling for intern spot assuming I don't match prelim.

I'm willing to Scramble into an intern year anywhere and in surgery if needed, so that's why I'm leaning towards option 2. My biggest concern is not being competitive to even scramble into a spot.

I'm sure others are in my spot as well so all relevant input would be appreciated.

-gardens421

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[NovusAether]

I have a similar problem as an IMG and not really sure what to do. Doesn't really help you, but thought you might like to know you're not the only one facing the issue.

 

[cognitus]

I'm not the most competitive applicant either. I'm going with option #2. My philosophy is that it doesn't matter where you start - it matters where you end up. And from what I see, fellowship and PP employment is the same from a particular program whether you matched into a categorical or advanced spot.

 

[NICMAN]

I think only you can answer how much you are confident you can get into one of your higher-ranked categorical slots and how much you are willing to risk with a SOAP into preliminary.

My preference was to rank only categorical for my top 8 slots with the exception of UPMC where I have a pretty good expectation of also getting into that preliminary program, AND THEN ranking advanced slots for my top 4 choices before ranking programs 9-14. I expect to match into one of my top 4 programs (Categorical) though. In the end, I will ranked 19 total programs out of 14 programs where I accepted interviews (i.e., I ranked 5 advanced). I did not interview at any advanced-only programs.

 

[patient_doctor]

This is certainly a dilemma. Particularly if you want to rank an advanced program high because you really liked it and it's very good, but you are worried that you may end up with no PGY1 spot.
I guess the answer is that it depends on how confident you feel about the prelim interviews you got. I don't really have an answer for you, but I share your pain.

 

[patient_doctor]

By the way, what we should do (seriously) would be to petition the NRMP to include an option in the algorithm that you can select a checkbox indicating you want to match a given advanced program only if a prelim match can be found, otherwise continue to the next rank order.

 

[gardens421]

It's more of a question of are you willing to scramble into any prelim year to match in your dream Adv programs, and if you are, what percentage/chance do you have of scrambling successfully??

I've been told its hard to scramble into prelim medicine, and surgery is getting more and more competitive. However, I also don't like the idea of cutting my losses and ending up in BFE location for a catagorical program. I'm 27 and single, I would like to spend the rest of my 20s in a bigger town with lots to do outside the hospital.
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Petitioning would do nothing for our year given the time of year, it could however change the match for future students in our position.

 

[patient_doctor]

For what I've been told, and based on what I read on SDN, soaping into a prelim spot is not hard as long as a) you have an advanced position already matched (programs prefer this), b) you are an AMG, c) you are willing to take surg prelim, and d) you understand your prelim year may be located in BFE.

(for the record, I am going with your option 1)

 

[gardens421]

I have no problem with BFE location and prelim surgery for ONE year if I can be in my desired Adv spot. I'm a US grad and will def. match (being confident here) into anesthesiology, would be Terrible to live in a BFE location for a 4 yr categorical position.

Considering Option 2 and going for the gamble (for the record, not too confident on how my prelim interviews went)
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side note: GO NINERS!

 

[HeelHookin]

I am in a similar position and chose to go with option 2.

 

[p30doc]

Last year for my top 5 I did 1-5cat then repeated the same 1-5 adv if applicable. For the rest of my list I did cat and adv in order. I matched adv only. I then tried to SOAP into prelim medicine, had multiple SOAP interviews, was told I was on a few places short lists but because they spots so few and the competition fierce I was out of luck and got nothing out of the SOAP in the end. Luckily as a DO I was able to land an AOA TRI after the failed SOAP.

I don't know if you are a DO, AMG, or IMG this will matter in your calculus. You need to think long and hard about the different scenarios and where your personal preferences lie.

 

[gardens421]

@p30doc I'm a US MD student. How many prelims did you rank? Glad everything worked out.

 

[POW16]

If you are competitive enough to get 9 anes itws, you should have no problem soaping for a year of prelim surgery.

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[cognitus]

Last year for my top 5 I did 1-5cat then repeated the same 1-5 adv if applicable. For the rest of my list I did cat and adv in order. I matched adv only. I then tried to SOAP into prelim medicine, had multiple SOAP interviews, was told I was on a few places short lists but because they spots so few and the competition fierce I was out of luck and got nothing out of the SOAP in the end. Luckily as a DO I was able to land an AOA TRI after the failed SOAP.

I don't know if you are a DO, AMG, or IMG this will matter in your calculus. You need to think long and hard about the different scenarios and where your personal preferences lie.

How many prelims did you interview with/rank?

 

[p30doc]

@p30doc I'm a US MD student. How many prelims did you rank? Glad everything worked out.

As a US MD I think you will be fine. I only had 3 prelims on my rank list and one ended up not taking candidates that year. I had underestimated the competitiveness of prelims/TYs and didn't apply broadly enough. During the SOAP I got the sense from some PDs, well one even explicitly said I was a good candidate but there were plenty of DO TRIs open so he would be taking US MDs who still needed a spot over DOs who had fall back options, which I think is reasonable and fair.

 

[mindhunter]

Then what about IMGs, I am an international grad with 7 anes IVs and 3 prelims, what do you guys think my chances in the SOAP are?
Thanks in advance

 

[njslex16]

For those that have previously matched into an advanced position, how many pre-lim interviews did you go on and what choice number wise on your supplemental list did you match at?

 

[776880]

Bump! I would like to know the same thing

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

I ended up matching to my #1, but advanced. I didn't do enough prelim/TY interviews and ended up SOAPing into a prelim surg spot. It's a good program, and I got a spot on the first round with many interviews before and a few offers. Part of me wishes I had ended up in a TY spot, but this surgical prelim year has taught me a lot, especially with critical care and perfecting basic procedures that have the opportunity to hold up cases in the OR (lines, tubes, etc). I used to be kind of embarrassed that I had to SOAP into an intern spot, but now I'm pretty thankful it ended up this way. Even though the year has pretty much been balls-to-the-wall.

 

[jjoo915]

When someone only matches to an advanced program, do you at least find out which city the advanced program is located in so that you can try to SOAP into a nearby program in the same city if thats what you prefer?


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[cognitus]

I ended up matching to my #1, but advanced. I didn't do enough prelim/TY interviews and ended up SOAPing into a prelim surg spot. It's a good program, and I got a spot on the first round with many interviews before and a few offers. Part of me wishes I had ended up in a TY spot, but this surgical prelim year has taught me a lot, especially with critical care and perfecting basic procedures that have the opportunity to hold up cases in the OR (lines, tubes, etc). I used to be kind of embarrassed that I had to SOAP into an intern spot, but now I'm pretty thankful it ended up this way. Even though the year has pretty much been balls-to-the-wall.

How many Prelim/TY interviews did you go on?

 

[Ronin786]

When someone only matches to an advanced program, do you at least find out which city the advanced program is located in so that you can try to SOAP into a nearby program in the same city if thats what you prefer?


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Yeah, you can call the NRMP and they'll tell you what state you're in.

 

[cognitus]

Yeah, you can call the NRMP and they'll tell you what state you're in.

I figure you'd know where the advance program is located since you went there for an interview.

 

[Ronin786]

I figure you'd know where the advance program is located since you went there for an interview.

Well if you've ranked multiple advanced programs you wouldn't know. Say you interviewed at advanced programs in MA, IL and FL. When Match Monday comes around, and if God forbid you don't get a prelim spot, the email will say "You've matched to an advanced position".

Based on previous years, you can then go ahead and contact NRMP for the state you matched into so that you know which prelims to target in SOAP and thus not have to move twice.

 

[cognitus]

Well if you've ranked multiple advanced programs you wouldn't know. Say you interviewed at advanced programs in MA, IL and FL. When Match Monday comes around, and if God forbid you don't get a prelim spot, the email will say "You've matched to an advanced position".

Based on previous years, you can then go ahead and contact NRMP for the state you matched into so that you know which prelims to target in SOAP and thus not have to move twice.

Ah. Got it. My mistake

 

[koan]

How many prelim medicine or TY spots should a reasonably competitive DO student apply to in order to secure an adequate number of interviews to match?

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

How many Prelim/TY interviews did you go on?

4

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

Well if you've ranked multiple advanced programs you wouldn't know. Say you interviewed at advanced programs in MA, IL and FL. When Match Monday comes around, and if God forbid you don't get a prelim spot, the email will say "You've matched to an advanced position".

Based on previous years, you can then go ahead and contact NRMP for the state you matched into so that you know which prelims to target in SOAP and thus not have to move twice.

You will know what state you matched into if you get the dreaded "you matched, but...." email.