Late to the game: considering MD/PhD

[RoadRunner17]

Hey all, I usually frequent the Pre-Allo boards, and I didn't know about this board until someone on Pre-Allo suggested to come here to find out more... I'm not gonna lie, I don't know very much about the dynamics of applying MD/PhD and/or MSTP... and searching doesn't really yield a lot of insight with my specific situation.. so I'd appreciate it if anyone could let me know if I should consider MD/PhD and/or MSTP. After giving it some thought, spending 7+ years in school is something I'm not terribly adverse to at this point, especially if it means I can pursue both biomedical research and see patients in a clinical setting.

Here's my story: I went to Johns Hopkins, and was a Biomedical Engineering major. However, I pulled a 3.25 overall uGPA while I was there, and I went for a post-bac at Penn this year to take the rest of my pre-reqs and take more science classes to get my AMCAS uGPA/BCPM up for MD admissions. Both of these numbers are in the 3.3-3.4 range now. Took the MCAT and got a 35. Before I decided to matriculate at the Penn post-bac program, I took the GRE and got 800/760 (Quantitative/Verbal) since I was considering applying for BME PhD programs this year. Long story short, I decided to go with the MD route, and didn't think of MD/PhD until now, when a friend who ended up doing MD/PhD encouraged me to look into it.

I worked in one lab and several collaborations since my sophomore year (3 years) in biomedical imaging. It's been great, and I got two posters out of the experience (one presented at a Society for Neuroscience conference). During my senior year, my PI and I decided to implement an idea for an invention, and we designed and built a prototype. Right now, I'm headed back to Hopkins after my post-bac is complete (after this semester) for a full-time job at the lab to continue working on the imaging research and working on the invention in my off-time (need to write up a paper and apply for a patent).

I do have my name on a research paper from working in a lab a summer after I graduated, but I only did the labor (i.e. western blotting, northern blots) so I don't really count that as a significant research experience.

Ultimately, I understand myself to be a fairly borderline applicant to MD-only admissions due to my uGPA.. and I always assumed MD/PhD was even more competitive. But talking to a friend who's doing his MD/PhD in SD now, he suggested that I definitely find out more; as he says that uGPA is less of a factor, and he knows that research is a relatively big part of my undergrad experience. So, feel free to enlighten me on my chances, whether they be minimal to little. My MDApps link is available as well.

Thanks in advance. Looking forward to reading more of the posts here.

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[Neuronix]

Hmmm... I don't like saying this but you would have a difficult time applying MD/PhD.

There's a couple issues:

First you know your GPA is pretty low.
Your MCAT is on the low side of average for a MSTP matriculant. The average is 36+ at the top-20 programs I have stats for, but essentially the MSTPs are the top-40 medical schools by USNews ranking.

With your several years of research this might not have been a terribly limiting factor, but you're applying for Bioengineering. Nationally there are limited spots for these programs which makes this even more competitive. I'm not sure how much your GRE scores will matter--for MD/PhD I'm not even sure they'll get looked at.

Which do you have better chances for MD/PhD or MD I can't say for sure. I think you're borderline for both, but I think your chances at MD are better. It doesn't sound like you have a very strong desire to do MD/PhD and since MD/PhD programs are somewhat biased against engineers, it might be better for you to apply on the MD side. If you do apply on the MD side your GPA is weak but your MCAT is still high and your research will likely give you a great boost to get in.

That being said, don't take my word for it just because I'm an smod and I'm the loudest yeller around these parts. Because you're borderline you're likely to get a variety of opinions and there's probably no clearcut answer to some of your questions. I hope you get more informed opinions on this topic. If you're still at Penn ask to schedule an appointment with the MD/PhD administrator here. She's very helpful with these kinds of questions. If you need me to dig up contact info just let me know.

 

[Jorje286]

The average is 36+ at the top-20 programs I have stats for

Do you happen to have the numbers or a link please?

 

[Neuronix]

From the FAQ:

Schools that post accepted student stats:
http://www.bcm.tmc.edu/mstp/admissions_statistics.html -- Baylor
http://mstp.wustl.edu -- WashU (Click on Admissions then FAQ)
http://www.med.cornell.edu/mdphd/adm...&type1=2Active -- Cornell
http://www.med.upenn.edu/mstp/admission.shtml -- Penn

 

[RoadRunner17]

Neuronix, your suggestions are very much appreciated. I mainly wanted to know just how different it is for MD/PhD's, as I mainly just understand the dynamics of MD admissions, rather than just MD/PhD. I plan to explore this option in more depth; as far as I can tell so far from forum searches and PMs, I might have a shot at MD/PhD at non-Top 40 schools (which is what I expected anyway). I need to think more about the possibility of spending so many years in school, but right now I am not adverse to it at all.

The bit about Bioengineering spots is a bit troubling, though. I can't say that gives me another reason to do it.. I plan to look into this some more. I really appreciate your informative response!

 

[magwi11]

I'm going to be the advocate for us low GPAers and tell you that if it's what you want, give it a shot, you might do better than you think. My undergrad BCPM was lower than yours, and my overalls after PostBac were about the same. 36S MCAT and with 2+ years full time research after graduation and 2 publications, and I've gotten offers from 2 MSTPs. So you can do it, just make sure that your LORs are amazingly good, and that your PS gives a school a very compelling reason to take a good look at you. The feedback I got from both of the places that eventually accepted me was that my essays and letters were particularly good, and I think that really helped in terms of getting me in the door. I'll put the disclaimer in here and say that I am in neuroscience and not engineering, so there might be some differences there.

It might be a bit of a long shot, and you might spend a good amount of time next year really worried, but if this is what you want to do, rock it.