Latest gimmick: Dr. Scholl's custom fit orthotics

[malleolusman]

One issue that disturbs me on this site is the hidden agenda people. I can handle the anti-DPM crowd but those who pose as pro-profession only to slam good people or organizations are hard to take. Students and residents do not always understand the politics and I get worried they may make decisions based upon false prophets. I can understand concerns someone may have but to poison a future generation against the APMA, ACFAS, or ABPS is just wrong. For a future DPM to think it's OK not to be boarded by ABPS if they do surgery and not to join ACFAS does harm to the profession and that DPM.

I come off harsh sometimes but will defend anyone who supports and advances the profession. ACFAS/ACFOAM, ABPS/ABOPPM, ASPS/APMA all good groups. Why must it be an either or?

I agree. Why must it be an either or? You ask a very philosophical question.

With all due respect, from a 3rd years perspective & opinion, podiatry has severe identity crisis issues. On the student level, med school vs podiatry school, on the professional level, im a surgeon, you're not. The list could go on. Just yesterday in PM news there was an exchange between 'old school' vs 'new school', one that illustrates the big picture quite well.

While I realise the following story is anecdotal and doesn't meet level I evidence; bear with me b/c its a great illustration of just how divisive it looks to the observant in the student arena, I have worked under two residents whom most of the students at temple consider to be very talented make comments something along the lines of "i didn't go to med school to make 'custom' orthotics'/cut nails/"insert old school podiatry here". I find a lot of this kind of talk to be extremely arrogant considering 90% of the faculty, including those who are talented surgeons have done this for a living.

While I understand the profession is headed into a surgical direction, I find it's the people who feel the need to 'distinguish' themselves from the masses that are usually the targets of those who trash talk ACFAS. The practicing podiatrists I have seen/shadowed/talked to, even those with excellent surgical training, are cutting nails times to time. The way I see it, you signed up for it. There is nothing wrong with it, accept it, own it, master it, be proud of it, your profession is known for it; but if you can't be proud, at the very least don't trash your colleagues' work to make yourself out to be superior. It's just plain divisive.

I really appreciate the work the APMA does but (and my opinions may be premature so forgive them as they are JUST OPINIONS) when you have a ACFAS spokesperson come to a school on behalf of ACFAS and throw a list of all the residency directors with their names who are 'ACFAS' trained, and then throw a list of of the others names stating 'these are all the directors who aren't facfas, they're some other board', it doesn't look professional on behalf of the organization. Note I still plan on joining, despite not sharing these kinds of views.

Most of the docs I have seen who yell the loudest about "I am a surgeon", are the ones pushing for the "im a surgeon", "you're a nail cutter". . . not "im a foot & ankle podiatric surgeon", they are "general podiatrists" model. It's about respect, and sometimes the loudest ones are the ones who have the least. Maybe I am wrong, but this is just what I have observed as to why such divisiveness exists...now don't all jump on me at once!

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[347932]

I agree. Why must it be an either or? You ask a very philosophical question.

With all due respect, from a 3rd years perspective & opinion, podiatry has severe identity crisis issues. On the student level, med school vs podiatry school, on the professional level, im a surgeon, you're not. The list could go on. Just yesterday in PM news there was an exchange between 'old school' vs 'new school', one that illustrates the big picture quite well.

While I realise the following story is anecdotal and doesn't meet level I evidence; bear with me b/c its a great illustration of just how divisive it looks to the observant in the student arena, I have worked under two residents whom most of the students at temple consider to be very talented make comments something along the lines of "i didn't go to med school to make 'custom' orthotics'/cut nails/"insert old school podiatry here". I find a lot of this kind of talk to be extremely arrogant considering 90% of the faculty, including those who are talented surgeons have done this for a living.

While I understand the profession is headed into a surgical direction, I find it's the people who feel the need to 'distinguish' themselves from the masses that are usually the targets of those who trash talk ACFAS. The practicing podiatrists I have seen/shadowed/talked to, even those with excellent surgical training, are cutting nails times to time. The way I see it, you signed up for it. There is nothing wrong with it, accept it, own it, master it, be proud of it, your profession is known for it; but if you can't be proud, at the very least don't trash your colleagues' work to make yourself out to be superior. It's just plain divisive.

I really appreciate the work the APMA does but (and my opinions may be premature so forgive them as they are JUST OPINIONS) when you have a ACFAS spokesperson come to a school on behalf of ACFAS and throw a list of all the residency directors with their names who are 'ACFAS' trained, and then throw a list of of the others names stating 'these are all the directors who aren't facfas, they're some other board', it doesn't look professional on behalf of the organization. Note I still plan on joining, despite not sharing these kinds of views.

Most of the docs I have seen who yell the loudest about "I am a surgeon", are the ones pushing for the "im a surgeon", "you're a nail cutter". . . not "im a foot & ankle podiatric surgeon", they are "general podiatrists" model. It's about respect, and sometimes the loudest ones are the ones who have the least. Maybe I am wrong, but this is just what I have observed as to why such divisiveness exists...now don't all jump on me at once!

I just need to clarify something really quickly. The American College of Foot and Ankle Surgery (ACFAS) is NOT a certifying board. Every Fellow of the ACFAS is board certified by the American Board of Podiatric Surgery (ABPS), which is the predominant surgical certifying board in our profession. No matter what, it is becoming more and more important to become Board Certified by the ABPS, as more and more hospitals and even private insurances are starting to require Board Certification by the ABPS soon after residency. Whether you are a Fellow of ACFAS is generally NOT a requirement for these institutions.

I'm not exactly sure what "ACFAS" trained really means.

 

[Sophomore]

I'm not sure this is the correct forum to search for advice on which is the best OTC insert, etc.

PADPM I want to apologize in advance for this post.

I just wanted to ask fksva about his/her experience withe the Lynco 405's. I have had some recent issues with ball of foot pain (metatarsalgia) and came upon the 405's from the advice of some other runner's. The Lynco's seem to be of a high quality and obviously better than the Dr Scholls. What I am really interested in is the amount of padding in the forefoot area. How is the overall quality vs price? I have been prescribed orthotics by a Podiatrist but they cost $350+ (not covered by insurance) and that just isn't financially feasible right now, especially with lower cost alternatives that have a POTENTIAL to be better.

Any insight is appreciated.

 

[PADPM]

You certainly don't have to apologize to me, since I'm not a moderator on this website. However, my prior post was in reference to the fact that in my opinion, the intention of this site is not for "medical" advice, but really for interaction between students, residents and attendings regarding medical "issues", not medical conditions/advice.

 

[Podfather]

I agree. Why must it be an either or? You ask a very philosophical question.

With all due respect, from a 3rd years perspective & opinion, podiatry has severe identity crisis issues. On the student level, med school vs podiatry school, on the professional level, im a surgeon, you're not. The list could go on. Just yesterday in PM news there was an exchange between 'old school' vs 'new school', one that illustrates the big picture quite well.

While I realise the following story is anecdotal and doesn't meet level I evidence; bear with me b/c its a great illustration of just how divisive it looks to the observant in the student arena, I have worked under two residents whom most of the students at temple consider to be very talented make comments something along the lines of "i didn't go to med school to make 'custom' orthotics'/cut nails/"insert old school podiatry here". I find a lot of this kind of talk to be extremely arrogant considering 90% of the faculty, including those who are talented surgeons have done this for a living.

While I understand the profession is headed into a surgical direction, I find it's the people who feel the need to 'distinguish' themselves from the masses that are usually the targets of those who trash talk ACFAS. The practicing podiatrists I have seen/shadowed/talked to, even those with excellent surgical training, are cutting nails times to time. The way I see it, you signed up for it. There is nothing wrong with it, accept it, own it, master it, be proud of it, your profession is known for it; but if you can't be proud, at the very least don't trash your colleagues' work to make yourself out to be superior. It's just plain divisive.

I really appreciate the work the APMA does but (and my opinions may be premature so forgive them as they are JUST OPINIONS) when you have a ACFAS spokesperson come to a school on behalf of ACFAS and throw a list of all the residency directors with their names who are 'ACFAS' trained, and then throw a list of of the others names stating 'these are all the directors who aren't facfas, they're some other board', it doesn't look professional on behalf of the organization. Note I still plan on joining, despite not sharing these kinds of views.

Most of the docs I have seen who yell the loudest about "I am a surgeon", are the ones pushing for the "im a surgeon", "you're a nail cutter". . . not "im a foot & ankle podiatric surgeon", they are "general podiatrists" model. It's about respect, and sometimes the loudest ones are the ones who have the least. Maybe I am wrong, but this is just what I have observed as to why such divisiveness exists...now don't all jump on me at once!

Look anyone who slams another DPM because their practice type/style is different than their own has issues. Our profession has incredible diversity. The APMA and others have attempted and are still trying to create a system where a "podiatrist is a podiatrist". This has not been successful to date and IMO will not be anytime soon. Even the new PMSR model where everyone does a 3 year residency will have some with RRA certificates and some without.

So we have people with different (not better) training, levels of expertise, and interest. I personally believe this is a good thing. Rather than slamming someone who is a wound specialist, a palliative general podiatrist, or a surgeon who does reconstruction we should embrace the diversity and work as a team. I still believe the dental model makes the most sense but unfortunately my advice has been ignored. Diversity in most situations means strength not weakness.

 

[PADPM]

Look anyone who slams another DPM because their practice type/style is different than their own has issues. Our profession has incredible diversity. The APMA and others have attempted and are still trying to create a system where a "podiatrist is a podiatrist". This has not been successful to date and IMO will not be anytime soon. Even the new PMSR model where everyone does a 3 year residency will have some with RRA certificates and some without.

So we have people with different (not better) training, levels of expertise, and interest. I personally believe this is a good thing. Rather than slamming someone who is a wound specialist, a palliative general podiatrist, or a surgeon who does reconstruction we should embrace the diversity and work as a team. I still believe the dental model makes the most sense but unfortunately my advice has been ignored. Diversity in most situations means strength not weakness.

I couldn't agree more with the comments above. I also believe our profession would be moving forward if we followed the dental model. It has worked well for dentistry, and all the dentists and dental specialists I personally know seem to be doing very well financially/professionally.

 

[Webstershoes]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2312163/dr_scholls_custom_orthotic_foot_mapping.html?cat=5

Picture of the device.
http://www.footmapping.com/

While most of us may spend considerable pain in dressing, very often, one overlooks the fact that the shoes you wear can make a big difference to how comfortable you are. Ill fitting shoes can result in more than just shoe bites, or blisters - they can give rise to corns, bunions and a host of other issues to say nothing of smelly feet. A lot more than appearance should go into choosing a pair of shoes, if you're concerned about the health of your feet. Though one rarely realizes it, the feet bear the entire weight of the body, and uncomfortable shoes can cause unbearable pain and wreak long term damage. These Orthotic Foot Mapping Machine cannot help! Visit your or contact a medical professional who can make a thorough examination of your feet....

Webstershoes

 

[SX0T]

PADPM,

You seem to be quite the advocate of Powersteps, which I think is a great thing that you would offer up such an opinion for those who cannot afford real orthotics or to visit a podiatrist. I recently purchased a pair of the Dr. Scholls Custom fit ones from using the machine, and I do not think they help at all, which, upon research is how I found this forum. I am thinking of trying the Powersteps, but am a little lost as to which ones to try and their website has like 15 different kinds. I was wondering if you prefer one type over another? Powerstep? Powerstep Pro? If so, which ones? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[PADPM]

Although providing advice to consumers is not the intention of this website, I will make an exception in this case.

In actuality, there aren't even close to "15" varieties of PowerSteps. If purchasing online, there are about 4 choices. The Pro line is usually only available from a medical professional and offers about 4 more versions.

If you are wearing a loafer or slim fitting shoe, the slim-tech line is probably best, otherwise for the most support I would try the Pinnacle. If you need more control, the Pinnacle Max provides the most control.

I have never evaluated your foot or needs, therefore have no idea if you will benefit from any of these products. I highly discourage anyone from self diagnosing and self treating.

 

[SX0T]

10 different kinds actually. And I fully understand what you are saying about self diagnosing and self treating - as I stated in my first post "for those who cannot afford real orthotics or to visit a podiatrist."

I also understand that this is not a consumer forum, but it is hard to avoid the fact that there is good information here when this forum is the FIRST thing that shows up if someone were to google exactly what I did - "consumer review of Dr. Scholl's Custom Fit Orthotics"

Just my 2 cents - thank you very much for the information - I will definitely take it all into consideration.

 

[PADPM]

10 different kinds actually.

You may want to go back to the PowerSteps site and look again. Actually, there are only 8 different versions of PowerSteps. There are 4 versions offered to the consumer via the website, and 4 versions of the "Pro" line.

There are also 2 ancillary products to use WITH the PowerSteps. There are arch boosters and metatarsal pads, but these are not additional choices of actual PowerSteps, but are simply products to "enhance" or use in addition to the 8 varieties mentioned above.

 

[suez21569]

This thread has been very useful and I just wanted to thank everyone for their input and debate.

 

[odieoh]

Just a comment on statistics. 100 people have foot pain. 90 of them will try a product from Company X. 50 of the 100 try Product A from Company X and feel relief. 20 of the 100 try Product A and don't get relief, so then try Product B, also from Company X, and do get relief. 20 of the 100 try both Products A and B but get no relief. 10 of the 100 didn't bother to try any product.

In total 70 people got relief from products sold by Company X. Of the remaining 30, 20 go to Doctor P, 14 of whom had tried Products A and B and 6 of whom had never tried any product. The other 10, 6 of whom had tried Products A and B and 4 of whom had never tried any product, just lived in pain without visiting a doctor and without trying another OTC product.

From Company X's perspective, they helped 70 of the 90 people (78%) who tried their products. From Dr. P's perspective, 14 of the 20 people who came to him in pain (70%) had already tried two of Company X's products.

The fact that 70% of the people who come to Dr. P have already tried two products from Company X without getting any relief says nothing about what fraction of the people who didn't come to Dr. P got relief from Company X's products.

Reading through this thread I was thinking the same thing here. You podiatrists have a slightly skewed view of things because you are really only going to see the worst cases, people who have failed whatever products they have tried, Scholl's or otherwise. If someone has a foot issue and they buy some product at Wal-Mart and it works for them, you are not going to have them making an appointment with you to tell you what a smashing success it has been. So your POV is skewed. That being said, for the patient population you treat it sounds like its appropriate to not necessarily recommend Scholls, knowing that if their problem is bothersome enough to seek out a podiatrist the other options available are more likely to be helpful.

However, it appears this thread has made it into a google ranking where a lot of people with routine problems are wondering about the Dr. Scholls stuff, and to unilaterally dismiss those products for everyone seems a bit unbalanced. The fact that the Scholls products have been around so long and sold so many says something about the fact that a fair number of people find them worthwhile. Just my 2 cents.

 

[PADPM]

Reading through this thread I was thinking the same thing here. You podiatrists have a slightly skewed view of things because you are really only going to see the worst cases, people who have failed whatever products they have tried, Scholl's or otherwise. If someone has a foot issue and they buy some product at Wal-Mart and it works for them, you are not going to have them making an appointment with you to tell you what a smashing success it has been. So your POV is skewed. That being said, for the patient population you treat it sounds like its appropriate to not necessarily recommend Scholls, knowing that if their problem is bothersome enough to seek out a podiatrist the other options available are more likely to be helpful.

However, it appears this thread has made it into a google ranking where a lot of people with routine problems are wondering about the Dr. Scholls stuff, and to unilaterally dismiss those products for everyone seems a bit unbalanced. The fact that the Scholls products have been around so long and sold so many says something about the fact that a fair number of people find them worthwhile. Just my 2 cents.

Sorry, you lost all credibility with me when you used the term "you podiatrists".

I don't agree with your logic, since I treat many patients on a weekly basis that enter my office with no prior treatments for their ailments. Many patients are referred by their primary care physicians, friends, relatives, etc., with acute pain and have never had any prior treatment.

I have been, and continue to be open minded, and due to Dr. Scholl's advertising, it's only natural that patients will ask about the products. Since the products will certainly do no harm, I tell my patients they can try the product. I can honestly tell you that I personally have never had a patient report any long term relief. Never.

And of course I also treat patients regularly who have failed many conservative treatment options prior to entering the office. I don't dismiss ANY product, but I'm basing my opinion on treating thousands and thousands of patients over an approximate 25 year time span.

If I felt that Dr. Scholl products were of value, I would sell them in my office. I often recommend many OTC products, but simply don't believe Dr. Scholl presently makes any products worth recommending to my patients.

You also have no idea WHY people are purchasing the Dr. Scholl products that have "been around for a while". Go visit your local store selling these products, and you will see that the majority of their "arch supports" are simply cushions which provide NO arch support and no real medical benefit. You will also notice that this section of their product line changes frequently, and in MY opinion is due to the ineffectiveness of these products. Therefore, they are constantly re-inventing the wheel in the hopes of attracting new customers.

The products that keep drawing the same/return business are simple shoe liners, flat cushions, etc., that have been around for many, many years and people have been using for simple cushioning, but no real true pathology. These have been products people (not patients) use to make shoes "feel better", feel more "cushiony", etc., but have no true value in providing relief for true foot pathology.

This is analagous to products such as Ben-Gay, Mineral Ice, Icy Hot, etc. These products may "feel good" temporarily since they contain camphor, menthol, or other counter irritants that temporary make a patient feel relief, but the product really has no medical benefits in treating the pathology of the patient's condition.

And finally, I did not dismiss Dr. Scholl products for ALL. It's been so long I don't remember, but I believe the original post was about the new Dr. Scholl "custom" device being sold at kiosks at WalMart. I voiced my opinion about the product and it's $50 cost, and recommended higher quality products at that price point, including PowerSteps and SuperFeet.

 

[odieoh]

Well, how does one address a group of podiatrists? All you all foot Dr guys? OK I can see how it may have come off as condescending a la "you people" but that was not at all my intent and I apologize if it came off that way. IDK what I'm doing on this forum to begin with.

Not to belabor the point but how do you explain the commercial sucess of Dr Scholls? Usually products that don't work can scam their way for a while but ultimately flame out-- ie the "apply directly to the forehead" stuff.

 

[PADPM]

Well, how does one address a group of podiatrists? All you all foot Dr guys? OK I can see how it may have come off as condescending a la "you people" but that was not at all my intent and I apologize if it came off that way. IDK what I'm doing on this forum to begin with.

Not to belabor the point but how do you explain the commercial sucess of Dr Scholls? Usually products that don't work can scam their way for a while but ultimately flame out-- ie the "apply directly to the forehead" stuff.

Read my post again, I've already answered your question.

 

[usermane]

Ironically, I treated two new patients today that both entered with a pair of the "new" Dr. Scholl inserts in hand. Both patients were sold after seeing the commercial on TV and going to Walmart. They were extremely impressed with the bells and whistles of the machine, and the impression that they were receiving some form of "custom" device (though they come out of a plastic box).

Both patients obtained no relief with the product. That does not bother me, since many patients don't obtain relief with expensive custom orthoses.

What does bother me is that both patients had extremely different feet and gait patterns, yet the "orthoses" were relatively similar, though the colors were different.

Both contained a VERY flimsy plastic "shell" that collapsed/crushed between my two fingers, and provided ZERO support and ZERO control. They shell was surrounded by a gel like cushioning material. And that was the entire product.

This cost $50. A product that provides ZERO support, ZERO control and I was able to completely crush with two fingers.

As an alternative, the patient could have purchased a pair of PowerSteps, which have a polypropylene shell, similar to a custom orthosis and are based on molds/models of averages of true orthoses. They provide true support and mild motion control, and have a lifetime guarantee against breakage, etc. Superfeet are made of a firm plastic, provide significant support, mild motion control, etc., and BOTH products are less than $50.

From my comparision to the products on the market (and I have at least 250 various samples of products in my office), I would estimate that the Dr. Scholl product I have seen, felt and examined in person should sell for no more than $15-$20 maximum, and even at that price, I see no use for the product. There are much better alternatives.

Superfeet>Dr. Sholls>the powerstep....for me.

After reading this thread, which I found searching reviews on Dr. Sholls inserts, I changed my mind and decided to try them all out myself to see which ones felt better and gave more support. When you mentioned the support and firmness of the shell, it caught my attention. Anyway from my personal experience there was an easy winner. The 2 Powerstep insoles and a few different Dr. Sholls insoles BOTH collapsed with relative ease and neither provided support in the shoe or on the flat ground with any weight. The powerstep especially didn't cradle my heel and arch at all and I was least impressed with those... but not by much, the Dr. Sholls were all 3/4 length and you pretty much have to wear soles on top of them or thy slide around in your shoe, but when you have two soles it raises your heel in the shoe too much and it will was rubbing from just walking in the store.

That said, If I were given one of the two for free I would prefer the Sholls over the Powerstep, granted it was just from a trial and having it in my shoe only for a bit, I was not active like normal. On the other hand, The Superfeet were MUCH BETTER. I felt more support in them instantly and although I only got them yesterday, I have been on my feet quite a lot outdoors and so far I am pleased.

They were a little cheaper than the powerstep and the shell is much harder keeping my foot conformed and it doesn't collapse under my weight which is only 170lbs. The 'green' soles are the ones I went with and I have fallen or sunken arches and plantar fasciitis. Without shoes on or bearing weight my feet look fine and normal until I stand then my arches drop to the floor and when I walk it hurts my heel and my arches pretty bad, in case others want to know my symptoms.

I pretty much registered on here to provide other consumers with my experience to help those others with foot pain searching for opinions. It sucks to have foot pain and I have been to a few different ped/orthos + physical therapy and have had only limited results. I also have had custom molds made of my feet for orthodics but they were soo bulky and heavy I couldn't tolerate them. The worst part about them was that they looked and smelled like massive bandaids it made my heel very easily slip out of every single pair of shoes I had!

I appreciate your advice and input mainly because I would have probably just went with the Dr. Sholls! While I don't personally agree with your opinion of the Powerstep over the Superfeet I am glad I didn't just buy without research. GL to everyone looking for remedies.

 

[PADPM]

Superfeet>Dr. Sholls>the powerstep....for me.

After reading this thread, which I found searching reviews on Dr. Sholls inserts, I changed my mind and decided to try them all out myself to see which ones felt better and gave more support. When you mentioned the support and firmness of the shell, it caught my attention. Anyway from my personal experience there was an easy winner. The 2 Powerstep insoles and a few different Dr. Sholls insoles BOTH collapsed with relative ease and neither provided support in the shoe or on the flat ground with any weight. The powerstep especially didn't cradle my heel and arch at all and I was least impressed with those... but not by much, the Dr. Sholls were all 3/4 length and you pretty much have to wear soles on top of them or thy slide around in your shoe, but when you have two soles it raises your heel in the shoe too much and it will was rubbing from just walking in the store.

That said, If I were given one of the two for free I would prefer the Sholls over the Powerstep, granted it was just from a trial and having it in my shoe only for a bit, I was not active like normal. On the other hand, The Superfeet were MUCH BETTER. I felt more support in them instantly and although I only got them yesterday, I have been on my feet quite a lot outdoors and so far I am pleased.

They were a little cheaper than the powerstep and the shell is much harder keeping my foot conformed and it doesn't collapse under my weight which is only 170lbs. The 'green' soles are the ones I went with and I have fallen or sunken arches and plantar fasciitis. Without shoes on or bearing weight my feet look fine and normal until I stand then my arches drop to the floor and when I walk it hurts my heel and my arches pretty bad, in case others want to know my symptoms.

I pretty much registered on here to provide other consumers with my experience to help those others with foot pain searching for opinions. It sucks to have foot pain and I have been to a few different ped/orthos + physical therapy and have had only limited results. I also have had custom molds made of my feet for orthodics but they were soo bulky and heavy I couldn't tolerate them. The worst part about them was that they looked and smelled like massive bandaids it made my heel very easily slip out of every single pair of shoes I had!

I appreciate your advice and input mainly because I would have probably just went with the Dr. Sholls! While I don't personally agree with your opinion of the Powerstep over the Superfeet I am glad I didn't just buy without research. GL to everyone looking for remedies.

Since the purpose of this forum is really not a consumer/doctor chat room, I'm not going to engage in a long discussion regarding your personal experience.

I have stated many times in my posts that there will always be exceptions. Although you have based your opinion on your one experience, I have based my opinion on my experience treating thousands and thousands of patients over more than 20 years.

And my experience couldn't be more different. Our office used to recommended and actually sell both products (PowerSteps and Superfeet), and stopped recommending and selling Superfeet due to the lack of efficacy and patient satisfaction in comparison to PowerSteps.

Additionally, we found that in the overwhelming majority of cases, the PowerSteps provided significantly more arch support than the SuperFeet. But you also must be aware of the fact that SuperFeet makes different models for different "arch heights" and PowerSteps also makes different varieties. There are those sold only through medical providers that provide slightly more support with a slightly thicker shell.

Exceptions always exist, but I base my opinion on the patients our practice has treated, which I can assure you is a significant number.

But the bottom line is that if you've found a product that works for you, that's all that really matters, whether it has my approval or not.

 

[usermane]

Since the purpose of this forum is really not a consumer/doctor chat room, I'm not going to engage in a long discussion regarding your personal experience.

I have stated many times in my posts that there will always be exceptions. Although you have based your opinion on your one experience, I have based my opinion on my experience treating thousands and thousands of patients over more than 20 years.

And my experience couldn't be more different. Our office used to recommended and actually sell both products (PowerSteps and Superfeet), and stopped recommending and selling Superfeet due to the lack of efficacy and patient satisfaction in comparison to PowerSteps.

Additionally, we found that in the overwhelming majority of cases, the PowerSteps provided significantly more arch support than the SuperFeet. But you also must be aware of the fact that SuperFeet makes different models for different "arch heights" and PowerSteps also makes different varieties. There are those sold only through medical providers that provide slightly more support with a slightly thicker shell.

Exceptions always exist, but I base my opinion on the patients our practice has treated, which I can assure you is a significant number.

But the bottom line is that if you've found a product that works for you, that's all that really matters, whether it has my approval or not.

Yeah, the two Powersteps that I felt and tried out had very very little support. So maybe the ones you are referring to must have not been OTC?..at least not at the office I went to (Dr. Eisenbergs, and Ashton podiatry in Plano tx).

I fully understand that there will always be exceptions and have read this thread entirely. I am not trying to argue my personal experience vs your practice experience, I am just trying to give my input incase others stumble in here as I did because it shows up very high on a google search And really there is some good information in here!

As you know many patients have different issues and different results, I would be interested to know how many patients you suggested or sent BOTH brands home with to try out and see what works best for them. Perhaps there's incentive to carry and promote a certain brand? Also, I'm curious if you have worn all three brands?

 

[PADPM]

Yeah, the two Powersteps that I felt and tried out had very very little support. So maybe the ones you are referring to must have not been OTC?..at least not at the office I went to (Dr. Eisenbergs, and Ashton podiatry in Plano tx).

I fully understand that there will always be exceptions and have read this thread entirely. I am not trying to argue my personal experience vs your practice experience, I am just trying to give my input incase others stumble in here as I did because it shows up very high on a google search And really there is some good information in here!

As you know many patients have different issues and different results, I would be interested to know how many patients you suggested or sent BOTH brands home with to try out and see what works best for them. Perhaps there's incentive to carry and promote a certain brand? Also, I'm curious if you have worn all three brands?

#1 No, our office doesn't send patients home with multiple choices. For sanitary purposes, once a product leaves the office, we can not accept that product back to our office. However, if a patient is not satisfied with an OTC product, we will credit that money toward a custom orthoses.

#2 I have a box in our office that is filled with literally hundreds of pairs of various OTC products that are sent to our office on a regular basis. Due to the size and reputation of our practice, many companies would love to "get in our door" to have their products sold. Additionally, if I see a product that interests me, I will ask for a sample in my size. I ALWAYS "test drive" a product. That includes PowerSteps, SuperFeet and probably just about every product you can imagine. So yes, I have personally "test drove" the vast majority of products.

#3 As a medical professional, our office has no "incentive" to carry or promote any specific brand, and I actually take offense to that question. I do what I believe is best for my patients, and profit is secondary. Our practice would not have maintained it's success if profit based on "incentive" to carry specific products was our motivating factor. Those that choose that route have no longevity because they have no credibility. Their motivation is money, not results. We choose products based on patient feedback, and we have no proprietary interest or financial interest in the companies products we sell, other than the small profit margin we make from the actual sale.

 

[347932]

Perhaps there's incentive to carry and promote a certain brand?

FYI, you, as a consumer, should know that what you're suggesting is against anti-trust/anti-kickback federal laws. Any credible physician would not risk their license to make a few bucks in the way you are suggesting.

Even if you own the brand, as a physician, you have to be EXTREMELY careful with how you do this.

 

[Sabin]

FYI, you, as a consumer, should know that what you're suggesting is against anti-trust/anti-kickback federal laws. Any credible physician would not risk their license to make a few bucks in the way you are suggesting.

Even if you own the brand, as a physician, you have to be EXTREMELY careful with how you do this.

Perhaps by "incentive", he simply means better deals for his patients. Who wouldn't want to try to save them a few bucks?

Also, I really enjoyed reading this thread! All of you are such a wealth of knowledge to everyone, including those of us entering school! Thanks for the numerous interesting and imformative posts!

 

[347932]

Perhaps by "incentive", he simply means better deals for his patients.

"Incentive" to carry a product means exactly what you and I know it means.

 

[usermane]

FYI, you, as a consumer, should know that what you're suggesting is against anti-trust/anti-kickback federal laws. Any credible physician would not risk their license to make a few bucks in the way you are suggesting.

Even if you own the brand, as a physician, you have to be EXTREMELY careful with how you do this.

Who said anything about making a few bucks?

"Incentive" to carry a product means exactly what you and I know it means."

Or perhaps it doesn't. Careful with the assumptions.

 

[usermane]

#1 No, our office doesn't send patients home with multiple choices. For sanitary purposes, once a product leaves the office, we can not accept that product back to our office. However, if a patient is not satisfied with an OTC product, we will credit that money toward a custom orthoses.

#2 I have a box in our office that is filled with literally hundreds of pairs of various OTC products that are sent to our office on a regular basis. Due to the size and reputation of our practice, many companies would love to "get in our door" to have their products sold. Additionally, if I see a product that interests me, I will ask for a sample in my size. I ALWAYS "test drive" a product. That includes PowerSteps, SuperFeet and probably just about every product you can imagine. So yes, I have personally "test drove" the vast majority of products.

#3 As a medical professional, our office has no "incentive" to carry or promote any specific brand, and I actually take offense to that question. I do what I believe is best for my patients, and profit is secondary. Our practice would not have maintained it's success if profit based on "incentive" to carry specific products was our motivating factor. Those that choose that route have no longevity because they have no credibility. Their motivation is money, not results. We choose products based on patient feedback, and we have no proprietary interest or financial interest in the companies products we sell, other than the small profit margin we make from the actual sale.

Thanks for the replies! I must say that my intentions weren't to offend you or anyone else. I didn't intend on dealing with "personal feelings" here, It was just a question. But since you have "opened that door", I have to say I think most people could be "offended" by every single one of your posts having condescending quotes riddled throughout to show how silly you think their comment was. I looked past it because there was some information that I could use, which I imagine is the case with anyone looking for specific help or answers.

 

[347932]

Who said anything about making a few bucks?

"Incentive" to carry a product means exactly what you and I know it means."

Or perhaps it doesn't. Careful with the assumptions.

Please explain in detail what YOU mean by incentive in this case. And anything received to entice the use of a specific product given to patients can be included in that law btw. Whether it's cash or not.

 

[PADPM]

Thanks for the replies! I must say that my intentions weren't to offend you or anyone else. I didn't intend on dealing with "personal feelings" here, It was just a question. But since you have "opened that door", I have to say I think most people could be "offended" by every single one of your posts having condescending quotes riddled throughout to show how silly you think their comment was. I looked past it because there was some information that I could use, which I imagine is the case with anyone looking for specific help or answers.

In theory, I should not have ever responded to your post since this website is not a chat room or consumer site intended for interaction between consumers and doctors/patients and doctors, etc.

The intent of this site is for an interaction between students, residents, attendings, etc., to share information and experiences. I thought I would do you a favor by replying as courtesy, but apparently that was an error in judgement.

 

[Foot Doc]

 

[Feli]

Sole Supports and HyProCure for everyone? ...

 

[PADPM]

Sole Supports and HyProCure for everyone? ...

There is at least one doctor in Michigan who would advocate HyProCure for just about everyone instead of ANY orthoses!!!

HyProCure is an excellent product when indicated, but I personally believe some of it's indications have been expanded a "little" beyond my comfort zone as a stand alone product.

 

[angryyew]

I apologize in advance for not being a doctor or student, like others I stumbled on this thread googling this product. I recently developed some soreness in the arch of my left foot. Being unemployed and without insurance I looked for suggestions on the web and "arch inserts" cropped up a lot.

So I first tried those those insets from the annoying gellin commercials and they actually did reduce, but not elimate the pain. I then tried the 3/4 length arch supports. These made the pain worse and caused my shoe to rub my heel.

I just assumed and still pretty much believe the foot mapping thing is in fact just a gimmick, but my mom insisted on getting me to try it and bought the "orthotics" for me. I told her keep the receipt assuming they would not work.

Much to my surprise, they actually have eliminated pain while wearing them and greatly reduced soreness in the arch overall.

I'm not sayin they are a miracle cure or that there aren't better options, but I don't think they're total crap that won't work for anybody either.

Sorry to butt in on your doctor talk.

 

[Feli]

Thanks so much for creating a SDN account just to post that. You are very subtle and sincere, Mr. Scholl, IV... I mean random new user

I apologize in advance for not being a doctor or student, like others I stumbled on this thread googling this product. I recently developed some soreness in the arch of my left foot. Being unemployed and without insurance I looked for suggestions on the web and "arch inserts" cropped up a lot.

So I first tried those those insets from the annoying gellin commercials and they actually did reduce, but not elimate the pain. I then tried the 3/4 length arch supports. These made the pain worse and caused my shoe to rub my heel.

I just assumed and still pretty much believe the foot mapping thing is in fact just a gimmick, but my mom insisted on getting me to try it and bought the "orthotics" for me. I told her keep the receipt assuming they would not work.

Much to my surprise, they actually have eliminated pain while wearing them and greatly reduced soreness in the arch overall.

I'm not sayin they are a miracle cure or that there aren't better options, but I don't think they're total crap that won't work for anybody either.

Sorry to butt in on your doctor talk.

 

[JLW]

As this forum is generally searchable on Google et al, hasopen registration, and is highly SOE friendly, it makes it a perfect venue forpublic review and response. Therefore,unless the moderator wishes to change the registration requirements to “medicalstudents” only through some manner of verification, I feel obligated toresponse to the product bashing going on here. When the Doctor Scholl’s footmapping machine first came out a number of years ago I was working full time atmy local post office delivering park-and-loop/walking auxiliary routes(contract) that the regular carriers were too lazy to deliver and in additiongoing to grad school full time. I alsorun also run and cycle 5 days a week. Before purchasing the Dr. Scholl’s orthotic as recommended by themapping machine I had sore feet every day. I had always had a problem with toe walking and the balls of my feetwould ache, blister, and callus. Morerecently I had developed large keratomas behind and to the inside of my big toe(bunion?). I changed to wearing socks madeby Thorlo and it reduced the blistering and callusing, but did nothing for thesoreness I was experiencing. I switchedto wearing a wider toe box shoe (Mizuno) and this helped even more. The final step was wearing the Dr. Scholl’sorthotic. The arch in my foot no longerached and the ball of my foot felt great running or walking. Although I am not a doctor I am aHistorian. And according to “historian “the Doctor Sholl’s orthotic insert, as recommended by their foot mappingmachine, is a major success in my opinion. Whenthese wear out I may try some recommended by my podiatrist. He removed a badly infected ingrown toenail (wedgeresection) several years back and it is the best thing any doctor has ever donefor me. I figure I owe him the business.

 

[Justshhh]

a

 

[amaprez]

Today the side of my heel started to hurt a little so I thought I would google the inserts and see what people had to say. The first site was this one so I read every comment. What I read was a bunch of so called educated grown people acting like a bunch of asses. With that said I'm going to buy them out of curiosity or spite I'm not sure which at this point. But I'm thinking that if people could buy thier little insert at wal-mart well that would take a hell of a lot of money out of your little doctor pockets. So I'm guessing none of you would ever let that happen by saying hey there pretty good for $50 actually. If I don't get cussed out by one of you for this comment I'll let you know what real people think of them.

There's a good deal of misplaced anger here. Seems like you carry quite the chip on your shoulder against all these evil healthcare professionals who only care about money? *sigh*

Anyways, there's no controlling the fact that customers are actually googling this thread, but to anyone here via Google, please keep in mind that this isn't a product review forum. Opinions (and debates) here are directed only towards peers and students of the health professions. You should use your own good judgment and/or consult a live, breathing, actual healthcare professional if that fails.

 

[readyfireaim]

I am so happy I found this thread. I am a consumer and I understand this forum is not intended for medical advice, so feel free to skip the rest of this post or use as little time as possible on my concern.

I will start by saying that I've already been to a podiatrist's office three separate times and on my third visit he basically told me that there was nothing more he could do for me and that he didn't want me to waste my money any longer. That was four years ago and my foot pain has only become worse since then.

Back when I first visited, I'd tell the podiatrist that every morning I'd wake up, before I put my feet on the floor for the first time of the day, the balls of both feet would feel puffy, swollen, and somewhat tingly. The outer half of my right big toe was consistently numb from the ball of my foot to the tip of the toe as well. Once I got out of bed and my feet landed on the carpet, it actually felt like I had some kind of pad under my feet and the tingling would increase.... and that's after being off of my feet for the longest amount of time of the day. I also told him that my feet would hurt very badly after walking barefoot or in socks at home for short periods of time. I'd get home from work, take off my shoes, and soon after the balls of my feet would be throbbing unbearably. We had hardwood & stone tile throughout the lower level of the house. His response was, "Well don't walk around barefoot anymore." Understood, but even when I didn't spend any time barefoot downstairs, I had the same problems in the morning that I described above. He identified that I pronate, I have low arches (if any), taped my ankle to support my arch, and suggested a shoe store that his friend owned.

I went back to my primary care physician and she suggested that I see a neurologist due to the numbness and the fact that the podiatrist felt that there was nothing he could do for me. My feet are usually ICY COLD at night in the bed as well. The neurologist put me through a painful test when he stuck needle-like probes into my legs and "listened" for nerve activity. So painful, but I dealt with it because I would be so disappointed if I'm doomed to a life of foot pain. After the initial testing, he suggested some additional tests that we're going to cost $20K and my insurance only covered 80%. I can't remember the exact numbers, but I surely couldn't afford it, so I just tried the best I could myself... wasting hundreds of dollars on consumer retail products that didn't help at all.

Four years later, I have all the same issues, just intensified. In September 2011, I was laid off from my job and have been spending much more time at home, less time in my comfortable corporate American Rockport dress shoes, and my feet have been letting me know lately that they are NOT happy. The pain is unbearable in the ball of my right foot. More numbness throughout and I've resorted to cold compress ice packs for comfort. If the rest of my body felt like my right foot, I'd want to die.

I found this thread because I was at Walmart and tried the foot scanner and was suggested the CF440 model inserts due to having low arches and high foot pressure. I didn't make the purchase because I wanted to during further research online, and I'm glad I didn't after reading the advice of experts.

I'm hopeful that some expert that has read this far can empathize with my situation, especially since I did the right thing early on and went to a podiatrist first... that basically told me that he want to take my money without being able to help me. Now, I don't have insurance anymore... which doesn't mean I'm unable to see a podiatrist again (I have adequate savings and collect unemployment), but I have to make sure that each choice I make is thoroughly planned and researched because my resources are limited.

In other words, I can't afford to try this $50 Dr. Scholl's insert, have it not work... try Superfeet, try Powersteps with no success... even try another podiatrist... and have him bill me full price this time just to tape my ankle and send me home with empty pockets and a swollen foot. I want my next move to be my best move.

I've been reading about metatarsalgia & Morton’s Neuroma and either could be a possibility. I saw a commercial for Good Feet (www.goodfeet.com) but they seemed more concerned with helping people drain their leftover flexible spending money than providing quality care. I'm researching which shoes can best support my arches and my symptoms. My GF got me a set of "YogaToes" that I'm going to try out as soon as I get this posted. Thank you for reading this far. I know that my anecdote is inappropriate for this forum, but after reading the comments and finding myself this close to such ideal experts, I had to give it a shot.

Sincerely,

William S.
Denver, CO
6' 5", 250#


PS - The whole time I was reading through the thread I was hoping to myself, "Gosh, I hope these other consumers don't run PAPDM away from the forum with their uninformed commentary & shameless scholls plugs. Geez.

Also, I saw where Kidsfeet said, "Why not go see a Podiatrist for a full and thorough biomechanical evaluation?"

I can't help but wonder why my podiatrist didn't suggest that for me?

 

[Ferocity]

 

[readyfireaim]

Not the response I imagined... though as I dug deeper and deeper into the thread and saw more and more ungrateful consumer commentary, I did worry that my last ditch effort would likely be met by a Dancing Request to lock the thread. I wish there was less spam and disrespect earlier, perhaps I would have been received with less disdain.

-William