Leaving PsyD program for PhD?

[emh289]

I'm currently finishing up my first year of a PsyD program at a highly-ranked professional school and realize now that it's not a great fit for me academically, professionally, or financially (i.e., I want to do more phenomenological research, be able to get a teaching position, and don't want to graduate with $130k in debt). After talking with my academic advisor and gaining her support, I'm seriously considering reapplying to PhD programs that better fit my interests (specifically Duquesne, York, and Miami Ohio).

Does anyone have advice on how to go about a transition like this? Am I doomed? Would it strengthen my application to stick out the second year and apply with a "MA in progress" even though it's not a terminal MA, or would that look even more shady? Also, any thoughts on how to tactfully frame this in an application letter? I realize that admissions committees frown upon this sort of thing and I feel like a big dumb idiot for not weighing my options more carefully before starting this program. Help!

Background specs: BA in religious studies and psychology (cum GPA 3.76, core GPA 3.9); GRE combined score of 323 (167 verbal, 156 quantitative); strong rec letters (both academic and clinical); 2 years of clinical experience; good standing in current program.

Thanks!

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[futureapppsy2]

Do you have any research experience? If so, what?

And tbh, you're going to have a really hard time making a research career doing only phenomenological or qualitative research--every academic or research-involved clinician that I've known who does qualitative research also does a good amount of quant research as well.

 

[emh289]

Do you have any research experience? If so, what?

And tbh, you're going to have a really hard time making a research career doing only phenomenological or qualitative research--every academic or research-involved clinician that I've known who does qualitative research also does a good amount of quant research as well.

I have some research experience, yeah: 1 semester as research assistant at a professor's psych lab in undergrad (quantitative), 1 year as a research assistant at a community health non-profit (quantitative & literature review; I was contributing author on two publications from that organization), and 3 months as a research assistant for a non-profit in India (qualitative). I also did two undergrad honors theses in both psych and religious studies but those were both literature reviews with no data analysis (which is considered research in the humanities, but that might not be what you meant?). Also, if I stay next year and finish the MA, I'll have finished a "thesis" of sorts, but that, too, will just be literature review with no data.

Thoughts?

And yeah . . . I'm not anti-quant research or anything. I just prefer the phenomenological. It's more interesting, I think

 

[PsyDr]

I'd call up the atlas software guys and see what training they prefer. Qual research is generally the death of a career. Unless you create some unique methodology.

 

[QAsPsych]

To be clear: there are jobs in qualitative research and plenty of people do qualitative research and only qualitative research. The jobs are not as abundant, it's true, especially in psychology which is pretty anti-qual. compared to other social sciences. There are, however, many university psychology faculty who specialize in qualitative work.

I don't see any advantages to waiting to apply, it is not going to look better, and you're very likely going to have to do an MA at your new institution anyway (though you can talk out that process with them; it might be worth contacting them to ask about this, especially since you're only looking at a few schools).

 

[emh289]

To be clear: there are jobs in qualitative research and plenty of people do qualitative research and only qualitative research. The jobs are not as abundant, it's true, especially in psychology which is pretty anti-qual. compared to other social sciences. There are, however, many university psychology faculty who specialize in qualitative work.

I don't see any advantages to waiting to apply, it is not going to look better, and you're very likely going to have to do an MA at your new institution anyway (though you can talk out that process with them; it might be worth contacting them to ask about this, especially since you're only looking at a few schools).

Ah, thank you! All of those programs are indeed MA/PhD track and I'm pretty sure that my liberal grade-less coursework wouldn't transfer anyway.

Who should I contact in the other programs though? Admissions dept peeps? I'm still not sure how to frame this situation -- I don't want them to think I have commitment issues.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Most of my experience has been with students who went from a PhD to a PsyD program due to dissatisfaction with the PhD program. The ones I knew completed the MS degree and then transferred to a PsyD program and they were allowed to transfer their MS degree credits into the PsyD program. PhD programs vary related to research and clinical emphasis and I have known some PhD students who end up leaving a heavily research emphasis PhD to be in a less research emphasis PhD program. Some PhD programs require first year students to teach one or two classes and also do research and the hours may be long for students increasing "burn out."

Realistically, to some extent what one gets out of a specific program, regardless if it is a PsyD or PhD program depend on your interest and motivational level. Many faculty have PsyD training and often PsyD trained psychologist are clinical training directors in both academic programs, predoctoral internships, and postdoctoral fellowships. Now there are both high quality and low quality PhD and PsyD programs and my guess is if you are in either a high quality PhD or PsyD program you can acquire research and publication skills and obtain high profile academic research positions.

 

[erg923]

Most of my experience has been with students who went from a PhD to a PsyD program due to dissatisfaction with the PhD program. The ones I knew completed the MS degree and then transferred to a PsyD program and they were allowed to transfer their MS degree credits into the PsyD program. PhD programs vary related to research and clinical emphasis and I have known some PhD students who end up leaving a heavily research emphasis PhD to be in a less research emphasis PhD program. Some PhD programs require first year students to teach one or two classes and also do research and the hours may be long for students increasing "burn out."

Realistically, to some extent what one gets out of a specific program, regardless if it is a PsyD or PhD program depend on your interest and motivational level. Many faculty have PsyD training and often PsyD trained psychologist are clinical training directors in both academic programs, predoctoral internships, and postdoctoral fellowships. Now there are both high quality and low quality PhD and PsyD programs and my guess is if you are in either a high quality PhD or PsyD program you can acquire research and publication skills and obtain high profile academic research positions.

Thew post has alot of words, but says pretty much nothing.

 

[emh289]

Most of my experience has been with students who went from a PhD to a PsyD program due to dissatisfaction with the PhD program. The ones I knew completed the MS degree and then transferred to a PsyD program and they were allowed to transfer their MS degree credits into the PsyD program. PhD programs vary related to research and clinical emphasis and I have known some PhD students who end up leaving a heavily research emphasis PhD to be in a less research emphasis PhD program. Some PhD programs require first year students to teach one or two classes and also do research and the hours may be long for students increasing "burn out."

Realistically, to some extent what one gets out of a specific program, regardless if it is a PsyD or PhD program depend on your interest and motivational level. Many faculty have PsyD training and often PsyD trained psychologist are clinical training directors in both academic programs, predoctoral internships, and postdoctoral fellowships. Now there are both high quality and low quality PhD and PsyD programs and my guess is if you are in either a high quality PhD or PsyD program you can acquire research and publication skills and obtain high profile academic research positions.

To be fair, I would stay at my current program if it weren't for 1) crippling debt, and 2) significantly greater difficulty finding teaching positions after graduation. I know I could make the most of my program if I chose to stay, but there are definite limitations in terms of resources and faculty advising around my research interests there. My advisor knows it too, hence why she's behind me.

Thew post has alot of words, but says pretty much nothing.

Curious to know your thoughts on the original post, erg923.

 

[futureapppsy2]

To be clear: there are jobs in qualitative research and plenty of people do qualitative research and only qualitative research. The jobs are not as abundant, it's true, especially in psychology which is pretty anti-qual. compared to other social sciences. There are, however, many university psychology faculty who specialize in qualitative work.

I don't see any advantages to waiting to apply, it is not going to look better, and you're very likely going to have to do an MA at your new institution anyway (though you can talk out that process with them; it might be worth contacting them to ask about this, especially since you're only looking at a few schools).

I have an unusually broad research background in terms of methodology, having published qualitative, quantitative (including survey, "big data," and RCT studies), and single-case (e.g., ABA) research. I've never seen a psychology faculty member be hired, let alone get tenure, with a qualitative research agenda that had no mixed methods or quant piece; I've seen this in education--albeit rarely--but not in psych. I suppose Duquense and maybe a handful of other institutions might be an exception, but I wouldn't bank on one institution giving me a job. Even the faculty I've worked with who obviously and openly prefer qual research have a considerable hand in quant. research as well. FWIW, the clinical psych program at my undergrad would not allow a student to do only qualitative research for both their thesis and dissertation--one could be pure qual research but the other had to be at least mixed methods with a considerable quant piece. And I'm saying this as someone who is working on some qualitative data now, so I wouldn't consider myself anti-qual.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

To be fair, I would stay at my current program if it weren't for 1) crippling debt, and 2) significantly greater difficulty finding teaching positions after graduation. I know I could make the most of my program if I chose to stay, but there are definite limitations in terms of resources and faculty advising around my research interests there. My advisor knows it too, hence why she's behind me.



Curious to know your thoughts on the post, erg923.

For clinical psychology teaching positions, either the PsyD or PhD will qualify you for these openings. For other positions, such as developmental, social, experimental, you probably will need to have the PhD with sound research background. However, depending on the size of the program, usually only one or two faculty are teaching in these areas, whereas you most likely would have six to eight faculty in the clinical psychology area. Most clinical training directors have limited teaching responsibilities and many times they will also have their own private practice and sometimes only be on campus two-three days per week or as needed.

I typically ignore erg923 post as they are typically negative towards PsyD programs and the Vail Model of Training. Although somewhat hypocritical as they used to teach in a PsyD training program. In my world... Everyone I know who has completed the PsyD, passes the EPPP and gains employment either in VA, Medical Centers, Federal or State Corrections, University Settings, or Private Practice. We may have student loans but we pay these loans or we gain NHSC loan forgiveness. People with PsyD hold University Faculty Positions and many are Clinical Training Directors. The Boulder Model may have strengths in research training but normally clinical psychologist are not researchers so it is in many respects a waste of training unless you want to do research. Even with the PhD, most have $50,000 to $100,000 in student loans. Not really a problem if you work in Private Practice and make $150,000 to $200,000 per year and are paying $700 per month in student loans over ten years. You will only be in your middle to late thirties and have another forty years of employment without student loans. Also, helps in your tax deductions when you are bringing home $15,000 to $20,000 per month.

Some PsyD may not pass the EPPP the first time, but this is not a test of clinical skills so it is not necessarily a valid indicator of training to be a psychologist, PhD or PsyD.

 

[schoolpsy21]

For clinical psychology teaching positions, either the PsyD or PhD will qualify you for these openings. For other positions, such as developmental, social, experimental, you probably will need to have the PhD with sound research background. However, depending on the size of the program, usually only one or two faculty are teaching in these areas, whereas you most likely would have six to eight faculty in the clinical psychology area. Most clinical training directors have limited teaching responsibilities and many times they will also have their own private practice and sometimes only be on campus two-three days per week or as needed.

I typically ignore erg923 post as they are typically negative towards PsyD programs and the Vail Model of Training. Although somewhat hypocritical as they used to teach in a PsyD training program. In my world... Everyone I know who has completed the PsyD, passes the EPPP and gains employment either in VA, Medical Centers, Federal or State Corrections, University Settings, or Private Practice. We may have student loans but we pay these loans or we gain NHSC loan forgiveness. People with PsyD hold University Faculty Positions and many are Clinical Training Directors. The Boulder Model may have strengths in research training but normally clinical psychologist are not researchers so it is in many respects a waste of training unless you want to do research. Even with the PhD, most have $50,000 to $100,000 in student loans. Not really a problem if you work in Private Practice and make $150,000 to $200,000 per year and are paying $700 per month in student loans over ten years. You will only be in your middle to late thirties and have another forty years of employment without student loans. Also, helps in your tax deductions when you are bringing home $15,000 to $20,000 per month.

Some PsyD may not pass the EPPP the first time, but this is not a test of clinical skills so it is not necessarily a valid indicator of training to be a psychologist, PhD or PsyD.

Eh, you're painting a really idealistic picture... 150-200K per year in private practice is not the average, it sounds more like an upper echelon or outlier (especially after considering overhead costs). And it's good for any doctoral level psychologist to have extensive training in research because even 100% practitioners need to be literate consumers of research to make the best, evidence-based choices for their clients

 

[Pragma]

For clinical psychology teaching positions, either the PsyD or PhD will qualify you for these openings. For other positions, such as developmental, social, experimental, you probably will need to have the PhD with sound research background. However, depending on the size of the program, usually only one or two faculty are teaching in these areas, whereas you most likely would have six to eight faculty in the clinical psychology area. Most clinical training directors have limited teaching responsibilities and many times they will also have their own private practice and sometimes only be on campus two-three days per week or as needed.

I typically ignore erg923 post as they are typically negative towards PsyD programs and the Vail Model of Training. Although somewhat hypocritical as they used to teach in a PsyD training program. In my world... Everyone I know who has completed the PsyD, passes the EPPP and gains employment either in VA, Medical Centers, Federal or State Corrections, University Settings, or Private Practice. We may have student loans but we pay these loans or we gain NHSC loan forgiveness. People with PsyD hold University Faculty Positions and many are Clinical Training Directors. The Boulder Model may have strengths in research training but normally clinical psychologist are not researchers so it is in many respects a waste of training unless you want to do research. Even with the PhD, most have $50,000 to $100,000 in student loans. Not really a problem if you work in Private Practice and make $150,000 to $200,000 per year and are paying $700 per month in student loans over ten years. You will only be in your middle to late thirties and have another forty years of employment without student loans. Also, helps in your tax deductions when you are bringing home $15,000 to $20,000 per month.

Some PsyD may not pass the EPPP the first time, but this is not a test of clinical skills so it is not necessarily a valid indicator of training to be a psychologist, PhD or PsyD.

This short clip summarizes my response to this load of bs:

 

[emh289]

Okay so... that's hilarious. Just to clarify for everyone: I'm not debating whether a PsyD or a PhD would be a better fit for me, and I'm certainly not intending to open a discussion on which type of program is better in general. I'm asking for advice on how to make the transition from a PsyD program to a PhD program, especially in regard to framing the situation in my app letters. Any advice on that would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Okay so... that's hilarious. Just to clarify for everyone: I'm not debating whether a PsyD or a PhD would be a better fit for me, and I'm certainly not intending to open a discussion on which type of program is better, either in general or for me personally. I'm asking for advice on how to make the transition from a PsyD program to a PhD program, especially in regard to framing the situation in my app letters. Any advice on that would be much appreciated. Thanks![/Q

The first piece of advice on making that transition is likely one you've already heard (if not, here goes)--make efforts to develop and/or hone interest in a research area (preferably, by doing at least some preliminary work yourself) that is aligned with the research interests of the faculty at the site to which you are applying.

Also, right, wrong, or indifferent the field is pretty ideologically fractured right now (and the rift appears to be growing) with respect to the clinical-scientist vs. scientist-practitioner vs. practitioner-scholar training models and a fair amount of that turbulence (again, fairly, rightly, wrongly or not) usually manifests at the PsyD / PhD split. Ironically, the rapidity with which this discussion veered toward that dynamic is a clear indicator of the hurdle you may (hopefully not, though) encounter as you try to make the transition from the PsyD to the PhD platform...best to be prepared for it and I wish you the best of luck in doing so.

 

[Pragma]

Agreed this is not a PsyD v PhD debate - the OP has their own unique question. Unfortunately some folks come on here spreading inaccurate information.

I personally would get out of the program and not continue. Just do things that will get you to where you want to be (ra, etc). Don't incur debt because in all likelihood none of it will transfer anyways.

 

[erg923]

For clinical psychology teaching positions, either the PsyD or PhD will qualify you for these openings. For other positions, such as developmental, social, experimental, you probably will need to have the PhD with sound research background. However, depending on the size of the program, usually only one or two faculty are teaching in these areas, whereas you most likely would have six to eight faculty in the clinical psychology area. Most clinical training directors have limited teaching responsibilities and many times they will also have their own private practice and sometimes only be on campus two-three days per week or as needed.

I typically ignore erg923 post as they are typically negative towards PsyD programs and the Vail Model of Training. Although somewhat hypocritical as they used to teach in a PsyD training program. In my world... Everyone I know who has completed the PsyD, passes the EPPP and gains employment either in VA, Medical Centers, Federal or State Corrections, University Settings, or Private Practice. We may have student loans but we pay these loans or we gain NHSC loan forgiveness. People with PsyD hold University Faculty Positions and many are Clinical Training Directors. The Boulder Model may have strengths in research training but normally clinical psychologist are not researchers so it is in many respects a waste of training unless you want to do research. Even with the PhD, most have $50,000 to $100,000 in student loans. Not really a problem if you work in Private Practice and make $150,000 to $200,000 per year and are paying $700 per month in student loans over ten years. You will only be in your middle to late thirties and have another forty years of employment without student loans. Also, helps in your tax deductions when you are bringing home $15,000 to $20,000 per month.

Some PsyD may not pass the EPPP the first time, but this is not a test of clinical skills so it is not necessarily a valid indicator of training to be a psychologist, PhD or PsyD.

One of the dumbest, most distorted/inaccurate posts I have ever encountered on SDN. Obviously, I am not the only one with this reaction.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Even with the average psychologist monthly salary in the $7500 range a $700 loan payment per month should not be an issue.


Psychologist
Methodology
U.S. National Averages
Median
$7,352
10%
$5,816
25%
$6,548

 

[emh289]

Even with the average psychologist monthly salary in the $7500 range a $700 loan payment should not be an issue.


Psychologist
Methodology
U.S. National Averages
Median
$7,352
10%
$5,816
25%
$6,548

Again, this does not answer my question.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I think the reasons for wanting to transfer are sound; it's just a matter of figuring out which ones to mention in the personal statement/cover letter and which to leave out.

Personally, my gut reaction is to really play up the ways in which you feel the programs to which you apply would be a better fit for you professionally and academically. You want to let them know that the opportunities for pursuing your desired interests are limited at your current program, but you don't want to throw your program under the bus. I'd say to leave the financial aspects out of your written materials, but you could certainly discuss them during interviews (others may have different opinions, though).

It might help to stick things out until you complete your MA, but that also means incurring more debt, and I don't know that the potential benefit would be worth the cost in time and money. If you won't have completed the masters by your second year, then I don't think you'd gain much of anything just by being able to say it's "in progress."

 

[QAsPsych]

.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Again, this does not answer my question.

I believe you were concerned about incurring debt. If you are making 8000 per month a loan payment of 700 per month should not be an issue. I would not be overly concerned about what may be thought about transferring from a PsyD to a PhD clinical psychology program unless you are leaving due to having problems academically in the program. It is more common that PhD students transfer to PsyD programs from my experience. It would seem important to indicate that you believe your interest is in academia and research rather than only in clinical work, and you think you may have greater opportunities to work in academia and research from having the PhD degree rather than the PsyD degree. However, from my experience this may not actually be true in reality as many PsyD psychologist work in academia and research, especially in Medical School settings. Rather than asking opinions from individuals on a message board, it may be more germane to actually talk with professionals in the field you have interest in working at from both PhD and PsyD. I think you will find differences of opinion regardless of training options and not only PhD work in academia and research but also do many PsyD trained professionals.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I have an unusually broad research background in terms of methodology, having published qualitative, quantitative (including survey, "big data," and RCT studies), and single-case (e.g., ABA) research. I've never seen a psychology faculty member be hired, let alone get tenure, with a qualitative research agenda that had no mixed methods or quant piece; I've seen this in education--albeit rarely--but not in psych. I suppose Duquense and maybe a handful of other institutions might be an exception, but I wouldn't bank on one institution giving me a job. Even the faculty I've worked with who obviously and openly prefer qual research have a considerable hand in quant. research as well. FWIW, the clinical psych program at my undergrad would not allow a student to do only qualitative research for both their thesis and dissertation--one could be pure qual research but the other had to be at least mixed methods with a considerable quant piece. And I'm saying this as someone who is working on some qualitative data now, so I wouldn't consider myself anti-qual.

To add, I'd be happy to be proven wrong about this, as I really like qualitative research (it was the type of research that I was first trained in, and it has a lot of power when you do work with marginalized groups, as I often do), so if people (@QAsPsych or anyone else) do know of any exclusively or almost-exclusively qual faculty in psych, I'd legit love to know.

 

[emh289]

It would seem important to indicate that you believe your interest is in academia and research rather than only in clinical work, and you think you may have greater opportunities to work in academia and research from having the PhD degree rather than the PsyD degree.

Yes, thank you. Helpful!

Rather than asking opinions from individuals on a message board, it may be more germane to actually talk with professionals in the field you have interest in working at from both PhD and PsyD. I think you will find differences of opinion regardless of training options and not only PhD work in academia and research but also do many PsyD trained professionals.

And yes, I'm talking with all sorts of folks and taking my time to weigh my options very carefully (which I didn't do prior to entering this program -- d'oh). This is just part of the process

 

[emh289]

I think the reasons for wanting to transfer are sound; it's just a matter of figuring out which ones to mention in the personal statement/cover letter and which to leave out.

Personally, my gut reaction is to really play up the ways in which you feel the programs to which you apply would be a better fit for you professionally and academically. You want to let them know that the opportunities for pursuing your desired interests are limited at your current program, but you don't want to throw your program under the bus. I'd say to leave the financial aspects out of your written materials, but you could certainly discuss them during interviews (others may have different opinions, though).

It might help to stick things out until you complete your MA, but that also means incurring more debt, and I don't know that the potential benefit would be worth the cost in time and money. If you won't have completed the masters by your second year, then I don't think you'd gain much of anything just by being able to say it's "in progress."

Cool, good advice. Thank you! Just to clarify, I would have completed the MA by the end of next year, but at the time of applying it would still be "in progress." I'd have to take out an extra $30k for that year, though, so I'm also not really sure if it would be worth the cost...

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

The MA for the PsyD program may not transfer to the PhD program. I have friends who did not get into a PhD program for several years after completing their MS in clinical psychology and some had to do the MS over again or they only allows some hours to transfer.

Are you sure you can gain acceptance into a APA PhD Clinical Psych program? A number of my PsyD cohort are teaching at major universities. Some are teaching at Med Schools and DO schools. A number of PsyD I know hold positions with VA and Med Schools.

 

[erg923]

Again, this does not answer my question.

That's what I meant when I said "lots of words but says nothing." The guy works in anecdotes. And if you believed everything he said, he knows more people than than a politician running for office.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Cool, good advice. Thank you! Just to clarify, I would have completed the MA by the end of next year, but at the time of applying it would still be "in progress." I'd have to take out an extra $30k for that year, though, so I'm also not really sure if it would be worth the cost...

I figured as much, yep. As I mentioned, I don't know that the masters would be worth the time and money necessary to earn it. I'd say go ahead and apply without, and worst-case (i.e., you aren't accepted anywhere this coming cycle), you can knock it out and apply again next year.

The main problem I foresee (now that I think about it) is that you won't find out admissions decisions until 3/4 of the way through your second year. Thus, you'll of course need to decide whether or not you actually want to attend said second year before actually sending in most of your applications. If it were me, personally, I probably would. I'd say it'd be better to ultimately complete the program you're in than to leave and risk not re-gaining admission somewhere. But that's just my take, others will probably feel differently.

As for transferring of the MA, it's going to differ from program to program. Plenty of folks were able to transfer theirs into my program, for example, but they had to have completed an experimental thesis, and it needed to be reviewed and "ok'd" by the DCT and program chair. It also generally didn't end up saving folks much time, it just meant that they could work on a different research project rather than their thesis. Same went for transferred classes--to the best of my knowledge, it was rare, and when it happened, the person still had to complete the credit hours somehow (i.e., with another class), they just didn't have to take the class that they received credit for having completed.

 

[Ollie123]

I have some colleagues in the....rather unique medical school department I'm interning in who are primarily qualitative...but you are correct that they do still have some quantitative aspects to their work. This is often an incredibly small piece of the main thrust of their program though. They are out there. Mixed methods is definitely a hot method these days. Actually every R34 I've heard of getting funded in the last 4-5 years has utilized such an approach. However, I fully agree that its still much, much easier to succeed knowing quant methods only whereas virtually impossible to succeed only knowing qualitative methods. Though I guess it depends on your definition of success....I imagine if one wants a lower-key research career at a smaller institution, a purely qualitative emphasis might be more feasible than in an environment where everyone is suspected to have one or more R01s at all times.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I would view a change in programs as stopping one program and starting a new one. "Transferring" in doctoral training is generally a misnomer bc they are completely different systems with their own requirements, etc. Undergrad has Gen Ed requirements, though it's different at the graduate level.

 

[MiniLop]

Cool, good advice. Thank you! Just to clarify, I would have completed the MA by the end of next year, but at the time of applying it would still be "in progress." I'd have to take out an extra $30k for that year, though, so I'm also not really sure if it would be worth the cost...

In my (subjective) experience, the MA is probably not worth that extra $30k. Generally clinical PhD programs don't care about whether or not you have an MA, they care about how much research experience you have. So an MA can be a nice signifier of you having that experience, but you can also get the same level of experience in a different way (like being an RA). It would probably be in your best interest to do the latter so that you won't further contribute to your already significant debt load.

You can probably do a nice job of spinning your PsyD experience to your advantage in your personal statement. Anecdotaly, I've heard from some professors in my program that they're often a little concerned about applicants who have research experience, but seem predominately interested in clinical work and don't come across as committed enough to research to be able to handle 5-6 years of it at a PhD program. So you can spin your experience of being in a PsyD program and realizing it wasn't for you as evidence that you're really committed to research and know from experience that a scientist practitioner or clinical science model program is best for you.

 

[deleted343839]

Cool, good advice. Thank you! Just to clarify, I would have completed the MA by the end of next year, but at the time of applying it would still be "in progress." I'd have to take out an extra $30k for that year, though, so I'm also not really sure if it would be worth the cost...

From what you've described, pursuing the MA would not get you meaningfully closer to your training and career goals, so that seems like a poor value for your $30K IMO. I agree that you need to think and re-think a solid strategy for how to frame your educational decisions thus far and make a strong case for why the training offered by a given program will provide what your current program cannot. Remember, when you are looking at research- or academically-oriented training, you need to focus as much on the prospective mentor as the program itself.

You are talking about entering a very niche area in academic psychology, and although I don't want to discourage you, you should make sure that your next step prepares you well for the career you want. Look for evidence that a program's graduates are going on to tenure-track faculty positions. Not every student in every cohort will land such a job, but it should be a very routine occurrence (esp. among recent graduates, who are more representative of the current training environment and job climate).

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

I'm currently finishing up my first year of a PsyD program at a highly-ranked professional school and realize now that it's not a great fit for me academically, professionally, or financially (i.e., I want to do more phenomenological research, be able to get a teaching position, and don't want to graduate with $130k in debt). After talking with my academic advisor and gaining her support, I'm seriously considering reapplying to PhD programs that better fit my interests (specifically Duquesne, York, and Miami Ohio).

Does anyone have advice on how to go about a transition like this? Am I doomed? Would it strengthen my application to stick out the second year and apply with a "MA in progress" even though it's not a terminal MA, or would that look even more shady? Also, any thoughts on how to tactfully frame this in an application letter? I realize that admissions committees frown upon this sort of thing and I feel like a big dumb idiot for not weighing my options more carefully before starting this program. Help!

Background specs: BA in religious studies and psychology (cum GPA 3.76, core GPA 3.9); GRE combined score of 323 (167 verbal, 156 quantitative); strong rec letters (both academic and clinical); 2 years of clinical experience; good standing in current program.

Thanks!

OP, I replied to your PM. In short, I would probably leave now before you got into more debt and if you need to, take the time to make your application well rounded.