LECOM-Erie Overview for those curious

[DocSpaceman]

For what its worth.... I love LECOM-Erie. I thought that moving to Erie and going to LECOM was going to be awful after reading SDN. Well its exactly opposite. I enjoy going to school, I enjoy the people, and other then a few administrative people who I have to see about once every few weeks I really enjoy alot of the staff. The anatomy department is top notch. The PBL department at Erie is even better then at Bradenton. The average board score for PBL Erie is higher then Bradenton, Seton Hill or the other 2 pathways of LECOM-Erie.

They dont care about the students? They built us a wonderful/amazing/nicest gym I have ever been in. They have a Coffee shop that has half of it just for students. The PBL building is right on the water and is one of the best study atmospheres.

Have you seen the match list from LECOM-Erie??? Hard to argue with those results.

Oh go cry somemore god forbid you have to wear a tie to class. I kind of like it, it gets me in a different mindset then I was in for undergrad. I want to feel like a professional after all this is Medical School and we are student doctors.

The best part about LECOM is that you do have incredible flexibility with your curriculum. DO ISP OR PBL. Want to know why the people complaining hate it so much? They hate the fact that ISP/PBL are getting a BETTER education (board scores prove that) and we ENJOY going to LECOM.

AND TOTAL BS about them "manipulating" grades just absolute and total BS.

IMO....I had a few other options and I have a cousin that goes to what SDN percieves as a "better" DO school. He hates it and I love it. Ironic eh?

So you are PBL and don't have to sit in lecture for 7 hours a day. Good for you. No wonder why you are so happy to be here.

I must admit I lol'd during that speech. I was expecting to see crime scene tape blocking off the bathroom right outside the library. I remember last year when the mens room near lecture hall C had the yellow tape preventing people from utilizing that restroom.

I also enjoyed the security officers speech about staying off the grass.

bahahah i did too. And I'm pretty sure there was yellow tape across the library doors. I swear it was a crime scene the way they explained it.

R.I.P Toilet.

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[DocSpaceman]

Wonder if they had IBS and were super nervous. I couldn't imagine having to sit in class, hoping nobody finds out you are the mystery pooper. Maybe the person was involved in an epic game of battle-$hit$

bahahahah im dying over here. That would seriously be epic

 

[CompuMod]

I'd like to say that the OP and other students that agree with him have their point. I for one got accepted to LECOM. It was my first interview and first acceptance. I put down my deposit of 1500 knowing I would most likely lose it, but there is no guarantees of getting anywhere. LECOM is a last resort and may be the only resort for some people. I'm fortunate to get a chance to attend another school and I don't care about losing the 1500 dollars. I did not want to be at Erie knowing I have 350 classmates and the way they run the place is not comforting at all. I can speak from experience (not personal experience, but from others from personal discussions). I shadowed a DO with interns rotating through. Two went to LECOM-Erie and when I asked them if they liked it, let's just say they weren't jumping for joy and attacking the question with enthusiasm. That was a flag there, not to mention they both complained about how uncomfortable they make you feel. No matter where you go though, it's up to you whether or not you want to succeed. LECOM will help you if you work hard, but boy I do not want them to be anal about everything. Oh...and the chance to only see your exam once is ludicrous. I want to be able to discuss what I did wrong on all my exams, not look at it for one sitting and have it yanked back. People learn from making mistakes, but you have to see your mistakes to learn...

 

[Dr Yiot]

SB I haven't started looking at housing yet but why are u saying erie is not dog friendly?

I'm also debating whether I should do PBL. I've always learned best through lecture but have never experienced pbl before. Everyone on the forumns continually states its the better passageway but I don't know how I would do init or if its for me but the more I hear about ldp the more I'm growing concerned. I'm not even sure if I would be able to switch. At this point.

 

[DocSpaceman]

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[Dr Yiot]

I see your point, my fear would be that I would study. The wrong material as a pbl student etc. From what I understand its not cut and dry what u have to read etc. That's what's nerve wracking about it. However I have and always will be more interested in learning things clinically and therefore feel that in those terms I would excell more in pbl just for an increased interest. The other thing that scares me is the exams three times a semester. Not sure I could deal with that. But with ldp 7 hours of class time doesn't seem all that difficult or out of the ordinary from other schools.

I'm a huge fan of instruction and I like to be told what to study. I know that for sure. However if someone told me to read and know this by next week etc, then I would be able too no problem as long as its written or presented well on paper.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

SB I haven't started looking at housing yet but why are u saying erie is not dog friendly?

I'm also debating whether I should do PBL. I've always learned best through lecture but have never experienced pbl before. Everyone on the forumns continually states its the better passageway but I don't know how I would do init or if its for me but the more I hear about ldp the more I'm growing concerned. I'm not even sure if I would be able to switch. At this point.

I say it's not dog friendly because I have two dogs, one is over 35lbs. There is one housing management company that has housing that is 'dog friendly' enough for me to live there. Most of the places are limited to one dog under 35lbs... I have looked for rental houses/townhomes, etc... all the same either no dogs or one small dog... it's VERY frustrating... Personally, I'm excited about PBL, the scores are better, and there's no lecture. I heard good things about it from all the students in Bradenton. Honestly, reading this has made me less sad about my options... I'd rather be doing PBL than a full lecture course, and I keep hearing on here how happy the PBL students are... I have done too much independent studying in the last two years, and I don't want to sit in the classroom for half the day and then go study 10 hours afterward...

 

[Dr Yiot]

Dangit lol, I have two dogs, one is 23 lbs the other 70. This should be interesting.

I'm also debatiing now whether to switch to pbl. Wonder if I even can now.

 

[SurfinginPA]

I think it is so funny PBL people come on here and are like - "LECOM-erie is not that bad blah blah blah" - yeh it is not THAT bad for you all. PBL and LDP schedule/pathway/experience is like a 180 degree difference - no comparison.

The facts are the facts and people can sit here and TRY and defend LDP at LECOM-erie all they want but the facts remain and here let me list some things for some of you to ponder about that goes on in Erie - this is just a beautiful sampling from my first and part of my 2nd year:

- ID Badge in and out everyday (no ID badge, security pretty much looks at you like an idiot)
- Rift between administration and students
- LDP schedule is beyond ridiculous w/ mandatory attendance that is king at wasting time w/ countless horrible lectures (esp. in core classes)
- Unbelievable time wasting lectures to students that waste time when we can be studying on stupid childish things as someone stated above ("dont touch others", "who to report stuff to"...blah blah blah - these happen in very inopportune times)
- Awful physio and pharm. department --> this haunts you in 2nd year when you are basically learning a fair amount of it from scratch for LDP
- Big-brother feel every day
- Ridiculous childish rules like no water in class, no hoodies up even after hours in the freezing cafeteria
- Someone here finds it amusing to crap on the floor of the bathroom the past 3 years here...unbelievable but true
- Possible grade manipulation? Even if its not true - many students are left to wonder if they are - do you want that feeling?
- Security taking their job too seriously
- Changing from dress code to OMM clothes back to dress clothes back to anatomy lab clothes blah blah - just annoying
- Multiple poorly taught classes even in systems - think just reading off slides that look like 3rd grader put them together
- Etc etc - I have plenty more if you want me to keep going - I reserve some of the best ones.

The fact is do you want to deal with all this while attending med school - sure fly under the radar and may not have too many problems and just get churned out as a "foot soldier" in medicine with no real uniqueness to you as the AOA president basically told us in so many words - yes he called us the "foot soldiers" while the people at "Harvard are doing research" - we LECOM and DO's are doing the "real medicine". He said that...yes.

Sit here and debate me all you want, defend the school - that is fine. I just want some prospective people to know that there are a FEW positives to LECOM-erie LDP - I personally feel the dark side of the school and LDP pathway far outweighs those positives and I would have been A LOT happier at another school where I would have at least SOME pride in the school I attend.

 

[deleted245139]

We can dicker about silly rules all day but people are ignoring a glaring advantage that many of us will only see 10 or 15 yrs down the line... At the end of the day LECOM is the cheapest DO school available. We can argue about what we 'sacrifice' to have that (paving our way on rotations, no food in lecture halls, whatever), but the fact is, the first 2 years (first 4 years) will go by in the blink of an eye. Personally, i'm glad that I will have tens of thousands of dollars less debt (when one considers interest probably closer to 100K) than many of my peers.

I got into NYCOM. I LOOOOVED NYCOM. I said no to NYCOM and from a financial standpoint I'm glad I did, and I would again. LECOM is cheap, Erie is cheap.

When the dust settles, Med school will be a distant memory and you will be staring down the barrel of a hell of a lot of debt. Peoples concerns are valid but there is NO SUCH THING as a perfect school with perfect education. That said, step back and look at your big picture; a few years putting up with what you perceive as silly/unjust/iron-fist rules for a LOT less debt than a alot of our peers.

(ps... if you think the silly rules/big-brother attitude stop after medical school, you are SORELY mistaken. Wait till you go on rotations and experience other hospitals, and better yet, other schools and all the complaints THEY have.... then I promise you'll understand why we're back on here to offer clarity. The grass isn't nearly as green as you think it may be.)

Quoted for SurfinginPA...

 

[Mbeas]

I'd like to say that the OP and other students that agree with him have their point. I for one got accepted to LECOM. It was my first interview and first acceptance. I put down my deposit of 1500 knowing I would most likely lose it, but there is no guarantees of getting anywhere. LECOM is a last resort and may be the only resort for some people. I'm fortunate to get a chance to attend another school and I don't care about losing the 1500 dollars. I did not want to be at Erie knowing I have 350 classmates and the way they run the place is not comforting at all. I can speak from experience (not personal experience, but from others from personal discussions). I shadowed a DO with interns rotating through. Two went to LECOM-Erie and when I asked them if they liked it, let's just say they weren't jumping for joy and attacking the question with enthusiasm. That was a flag there, not to mention they both complained about how uncomfortable they make you feel. No matter where you go though, it's up to you whether or not you want to succeed. LECOM will help you if you work hard, but boy I do not want them to be anal about everything. Oh...and the chance to only see your exam once is ludicrous. I want to be able to discuss what I did wrong on all my exams, not look at it for one sitting and have it yanked back. People learn from making mistakes, but you have to see your mistakes to learn...

Exact same situation here. And 4 years isn't really a blink of an eye if you are miserable everyday, putting up with petty crap (no pun intended) when you should be focused on studying. Maybe it is a blink of an eye 20 years down the road, but it's going to feel like eternity when you are actually going through it.

 

[SurfinginPA]

Quoted for SurfinginPA...

Ok...so "big brother" doesn't stop in hospitals and when you are dealing with people's lives in your hands...I can UNDERSTAND that. I can understand big brother watching you when you dealing with saving lives and have the potential to do a lot of harm. But, God forbid we wouldn't want to embarrass LECOM - its almost cultish how much they are concerned with their image almost more so then they are concerned with you...probably not the case but you get that sense from how they talk.

But, the degree to which LECOM acts like "big brother" is ridiculous. You can sit here all day and argue that it prepares you...blah blah blah. But, med school is hard enough without having to deal with the "extra" garbage that LECOM dumps on it's students and make them deal with on top of that. You can argue all day - that "this is med school and its suppose to be hard" . You know what I say to that...you are absolutely correct and I never complain about how hard a test was or whatever because I understand that...but there is a big difference between fundamental med school things being hard and the circus of things that goes on with administration/security/guidelines/etc at LECOM.

Sure, you can "fly under the radar" at LECOM and just get through but I guess I always thought it would be nice to have some sort of pride in the medical school that educates you. I have none of that because of the disdain I have for the way things are handled here...even though I do fine in my classes and feel like I am getting a decent education - the amount of garbage we deal with that is "extra" stuff on a weekly basis becomes ridiculous sometimes.

Not saying some people don't have positive experiences at LECOM - probably more PBL and ISP people than LDP. But, I can sit here and tell you things that are done here or have been done here that would absolutely stun you...maybe some of you 3rd and 4th years didn't have it done to you all but there are some AMAZING stories that make you wonder what the administration was thinking.

Of course, I will shut my mouth and be a good LECOM student like we are commanded to be and I will abide by their communistic guidelines and ways but it does not make the med school experience any easier when you deal with all the extra fluff that goes on here.

 

[deleted245139]

Ok...so "big brother" doesn't stop in hospitals and when you are dealing with people's lives in your hands...I can UNDERSTAND that. I can understand big brother watching you when you dealing with saving lives and have the potential to do a lot of harm. But, God forbid we wouldn't want to embarrass LECOM - its almost cultish how much they are concerned with their image almost more so then they are concerned with you...probably not the case but you get that sense from how they talk.

But, the degree to which LECOM acts like "big brother" is ridiculous. You can sit here all day and argue that it prepares you...blah blah blah. But, med school is hard enough without having to deal with the "extra" garbage that LECOM dumps on it's students and make them deal with on top of that. You can argue all day - that "this is med school and its suppose to be hard" . You know what I say to that...you are absolutely correct and I never complain about how hard a test was or whatever because I understand that...but there is a big difference between fundamental med school things being hard and the circus of things that goes on with administration/security/guidelines/etc at LECOM.

Sure, you can "fly under the radar" at LECOM and just get through but I guess I always thought it would be nice to have some sort of pride in the medical school that educates you. I have none of that because of the disdain I have for the way things are handled here...even though I do fine in my classes and feel like I am getting a decent education - the amount of garbage we deal with that is "extra" stuff on a weekly basis becomes ridiculous sometimes.

Not saying some people don't have positive experiences at LECOM - probably more PBL and ISP people than LDP. But, I can sit here and tell you things that are done here or have been done here that would absolutely stun you...maybe some of you 3rd and 4th years didn't have it done to you all but there are some AMAZING stories that make you wonder what the administration was thinking.

Of course, I will shut my mouth and be a good LECOM student like we are commanded to be and I will abide by their communistic guidelines and ways but it does not make the med school experience any easier when you deal with all the extra fluff that goes on here.

All I'm saying is lighten up man. I don't disagree w you there are alot of moments I was unhappy w things... but what I offer is perspective. Just grin and bear it. I felt very similar to u my first yr... then I room a moment to think big picture. Come third yr rotations... u see that you weren't alone. I've heard horror stories man. Things on a level lecom can't touch. Like I said.... not discrediting you. Just offering perspective.

 

[1Cor1557]

Major premise; I want to be a physican
Minor premise; LECOM graduates physicians
Synthesis; LECOM is good for people who want to be physicians

 

[Loudster]

...I can sit here and tell you things that are done here or have been done here that would absolutely stun you...

So far you haven't given any stories that have absolutely stunned me. You're disgruntled and you have some legitimate reasons, but frankly none of it so far seems so out of line that I'm caught trying to pick my jaw up off the floor.


- ID Badge in and out everyday (no ID badge, security pretty much looks at you like an idiot)
That's their job? Take the hint and remember your badge.

- Rift between administration in and students
That probably sucks, but it's not unheard of at other schools.

- LDP schedule is beyond ridiculous w/ mandatory attendance that is king at wasting time w/ countless horrible lectures (esp. in core classes) Other schools have mandatory attendance. As others have said, go and just study other stuff. This is where it most sounds like you're jealous of those in PBL/ISP.

- Unbelievable time wasting lectures to students that waste time when we can be studying on stupid childish things as someone stated above ("dont touch others", "who to report stuff to"...blah blah blah - these happen in very inopportune times)
When would be an opportune time for everyone realistically? They're going to have to schedule these for times when they're going to get the most people there. Which means that it won't be the best time for everyone. "Don't touch others" is an important topic, glad they brought it up. Who to report stuff to could probably have been brought up during an orientation so I can see your frustration with that.

- Awful physio and pharm. department --> this haunts you in 2nd year when you are basically learning a fair amount of it from scratch for LDP
As has been said, what's stopping you from learning the material on your own during class? It sucks that not every department is awesome, or even good, but once again this is the norm for schools. There are good departments, there are bad departments.

- Big-brother feel every day
Sounds like they have rules and you're aware of them. It doesn't sound from your accounts like the most oppressive school in the whole world though...

- Ridiculous childish rules like no water in class, no hoodies up even after hours in the freezing cafeteria
And you still study there instead of home or somewhere else why? No water in class is admittedly lame, but not enough to ruin two years of most people's lives.

- Someone here finds it amusing to crap on the floor of the bathroom the past 3 years here...unbelievable but true
Based on how much you seem to hate the school, it kinda sounds like you might find it amusing. Are you sure you're not the phantom pooper? Just kidding, but seriously this sounds like it's more of a single student. I'm sure they don't seek out these crappy students. Lecom isn't telling anyone to crap on the bathroom floor every year (in fact, sounds like they're doing the opposite).

- Possible grade manipulation? Even if its not true - many students are left to wonder if they are - do you want that feeling?
Paranoid much? You don't have any actual proof? "Many" students is probably an exaggeration.

- Security taking their job too seriously
Sucks that they do their job... Dang them to heck.

- Changing from dress code to OMM clothes back to dress clothes back to anatomy lab clothes blah blah - just annoying
It's a dress code. Sounds like a normal dress code.

- Multiple poorly taught classes even in systems - think just reading off slides that look like 3rd grader put them together
You already brought this up? Once again, what's stopping you from getting yourself to the back of class, ignoring the slides and studying on your own? Maybe even use the slides as an outline only?

- Etc etc - I have plenty more if you want me to keep going - I reserve some of the best ones.
Why reserve your best ones? If you have legitimate things isn't this the very thread you created to list them?

 

[Druggernaut]

I see your point, my fear would be that I would study. The wrong material as a pbl student etc. From what I understand its not cut and dry what u have to read etc.

.....

I'm a huge fan of instruction and I like to be told what to study. I know that for sure. However if someone told me to read and know this by next week etc, then I would be able too no problem as long as its written or presented well on paper.

I was a little concerned about not learning the right things initially, but it's really not a concern. If you exercise some common sense, you'll be fine. For example, after your pulmonary embolism case, you'll select chapters from your textbooks that cover the clotting cascade and the drugs that work on it, read about it in your pathology textbook, or even brush up on relevant anatomy. Your tests are written based on what your group selects, so barring a mistake by the people making the exams (which does happen, but they'll drop the questions), you'll be tested on what you've studied. And considering that I've read about half of my physiology textbook several times in my first semester, as well as big chunks of biochemistry and a smattering of other things, I'm not worried that I'm going to miss much. Plus, the facilitators are supposed to rein you in if you start selecting chapters that aren't relevant to the case at hand, though I've heard there are some groups who've selected things just because they wanted to learn about it. If you steer clear of that kind of behavior and trust the process, you'll be fine.

You're not going to be told what to study, but you will know what you're going to be tested on. Instruction will be minimal, but it seems that most medical students feel lectures are mostly just a barrier to learning what they need to know. We just have to go to textbooks to get it, instead of having powerpoints to memorize.

You have to have the right mindset to go here. There's plenty of things from administration that seem arbitrary or over the top, and if you fixate on them and spend a bunch of time complaining about them with your classmates, you're going to be unhappy. I've had friends called in to talk with administration about things that I really don't think are their business, but they were concerned about how the student's behavior would reflect on the school. Even though I don't agree with it, it ultimately doesn't matter for me, since I come in with my badge and wearing my tie and don't make an ass of myself when I'm out in public. The rules can be a little bit of a hassle, but I think it's well worth the low cost of attendance and quality education. I can't speak to LDP specific things, but definately agree that it would be unpleasant to have that much mandatory lecture.

 

[Druggernaut]

- Unbelievable time wasting lectures to students that waste time when we can be studying on stupid childish things as someone stated above ("dont touch others", "who to report stuff to"...blah blah blah - these happen in very inopportune times)
When would be an opportune time for everyone realistically? They're going to have to schedule these for times when they're going to get the most people there. Which means that it won't be the best time for everyone. "Don't touch others" is an important topic, glad they brought it up. Who to report stuff to could probably have been brought up during an orientation so I can see your frustration with that.

- Awful physio and pharm. department --> this haunts you in 2nd year when you are basically learning a fair amount of it from scratch for LDP
As has been said, what's stopping you from learning the material on your own during class? It sucks that not every department is awesome, or even good, but once again this is the norm for schools. There are good departments, there are bad departments.

- Multiple poorly taught classes even in systems - think just reading off slides that look like 3rd grader put them together
You already brought this up? Once again, what's stopping you from getting yourself to the back of class, ignoring the slides and studying on your own? Maybe even use the slides as an outline only?

I do have to disagree with your counterpoints here. Yes, it's important to not molest children. Yes, it's important to not die in a car wreck because you're not accustomed to driving in snow. No, these are not things that you need to waste people's time with. It's common sense and not relevant to your medical education. Why not give a talk on the importance of not committing murder?

He's paying good money to be taught the material, so it doesn't make sense to tell him to quit complaining and learn it on his own. That's not what the lecture pathway is about. Not every department is going to be stellar, but it's fair to complain about the ones you don't think are good.

Studying your own thing during a lecture is obviously going to be less efficient than doing it in the library, so I don't think it's fair to tell him to do this if he doesn't feel that he's getting a good education. What's the point of the lectures he's paying 30 grand for then?

 

[DocSpaceman]

So far you haven't given any stories that have absolutely stunned me. You're disgruntled and you have some legitimate reasons, but frankly none of it so far seems so out of line that I'm caught trying to pick my jaw up off the floor.


- ID Badge in and out everyday (no ID badge, security pretty much looks at you like an idiot)
That's their job? Take the hint and remember your badge.

- Rift between administration in and students
That probably sucks, but it's not unheard of at other schools.

- LDP schedule is beyond ridiculous w/ mandatory attendance that is king at wasting time w/ countless horrible lectures (esp. in core classes) Other schools have mandatory attendance. As others have said, go and just study other stuff. This is where it most sounds like you're jealous of those in PBL/ISP.

- Unbelievable time wasting lectures to students that waste time when we can be studying on stupid childish things as someone stated above ("dont touch others", "who to report stuff to"...blah blah blah - these happen in very inopportune times)
When would be an opportune time for everyone realistically? They're going to have to schedule these for times when they're going to get the most people there. Which means that it won't be the best time for everyone. "Don't touch others" is an important topic, glad they brought it up. Who to report stuff to could probably have been brought up during an orientation so I can see your frustration with that.

- Awful physio and pharm. department --> this haunts you in 2nd year when you are basically learning a fair amount of it from scratch for LDP
As has been said, what's stopping you from learning the material on your own during class? It sucks that not every department is awesome, or even good, but once again this is the norm for schools. There are good departments, there are bad departments.

- Big-brother feel every day
Sounds like they have rules and you're aware of them. It doesn't sound from your accounts like the most oppressive school in the whole world though...

- Ridiculous childish rules like no water in class, no hoodies up even after hours in the freezing cafeteria
And you still study there instead of home or somewhere else why? No water in class is admittedly lame, but not enough to ruin two years of most people's lives.

- Someone here finds it amusing to crap on the floor of the bathroom the past 3 years here...unbelievable but true
Based on how much you seem to hate the school, it kinda sounds like you might find it amusing. Are you sure you're not the phantom pooper? Just kidding, but seriously this sounds like it's more of a single student. I'm sure they don't seek out these crappy students. Lecom isn't telling anyone to crap on the bathroom floor every year (in fact, sounds like they're doing the opposite).

- Possible grade manipulation? Even if its not true - many students are left to wonder if they are - do you want that feeling?
Paranoid much? You don't have any actual proof? "Many" students is probably an exaggeration.

- Security taking their job too seriously
Sucks that they do their job... Dang them to heck.

- Changing from dress code to OMM clothes back to dress clothes back to anatomy lab clothes blah blah - just annoying
It's a dress code. Sounds like a normal dress code.

- Multiple poorly taught classes even in systems - think just reading off slides that look like 3rd grader put them together
You already brought this up? Once again, what's stopping you from getting yourself to the back of class, ignoring the slides and studying on your own? Maybe even use the slides as an outline only?

- Etc etc - I have plenty more if you want me to keep going - I reserve some of the best ones.
Why reserve your best ones? If you have legitimate things isn't this the very thread you created to list them?

You are a pre- med troll and if you were here you would be the same way. You honestly sound like you would be a great fit here, brown nosing up every faculties *****, abiding by every single "rule," and worrying more about other people not following them than doing your own work.

The day you forget your ID and you have a quiz right at 8:00 and its a blizzard outside and you get there at 7:59 and you realize you left your badge at home. Sorry you won't be able to get there on time because they won't even let you in the building and you will start your test with a 70, or you might just get a plain 0. Then I guess the you will still think that the rules don't suck right?? Wrong.

As for Surfing Pas posts, he is 100% correct. All you people who just "love" LECOM and their horrendous rules should just work there someday, gaining pleasure out of making other students lives suck and not helping anyone at all.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Studying during lecture... what are the consequences of studying through a mandatory lecture? Even in my undergrad that was pretty pardon the expression, ballsy... I have seen profs throw people out of class for doing it. Not sure if that is the case at LECOM, if it ISN'T the case, then I have an excellent suggestion. There are companies that make earplugs designed for your ear that are flush with your ear canal. They are very difficult to see. You could get lots of studying done whilst tuning out whoever is blathering at the front... Just a thought... again, if you'd get in deep crap, don't do it

For the record, again I am SOOO happy I chose PBL, and I am sorry the lecture is such a drag, I do have sympathy, I just know after all of my PB work, I really don't like lectures, I tend to fall asleep after about 30 minutes of droll, horrible lecturers... soooo, I picked PBL because then I am in an interactive group and I won't fall asleep...

 

[sylvanthus]

It seems people are concerned about the nonsense during the first couple years, but I am curious how good your clinicals are? That, I think, is the thing that is most important and most people tend to ignore.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

You are a pre- med troll and if you were here you would be the same way. You honestly sound like you would be a great fit here, brown nosing up every faculties *****, abiding by every single "rule," and worrying more about other people not following them than doing your own work.

The day you forget your ID and you have a quiz right at 8:00 and its a blizzard outside and you get there at 7:59 and you realize you left your badge at home. Sorry you won't be able to get there on time because they won't even let you in the building and you will start your test with a 70, or you might just get a plain 0. Then I guess the you will still think that the rules don't suck right?? Wrong.

As for Surfing Pas posts, he is 100% correct. All you people who just "love" LECOM and their horrendous rules should just work there someday, gaining pleasure out of making other students lives suck and not helping anyone at all.

Did someone put a gun to your head? No. Is LECOM not helping anyone? No. Last I checked they graduate a fair number of people who are physicians. As I said before, maybe they have some crappy rules, but they ARE well respected in the field. No one is going to look at your degree and say "you went to LECOM HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, what a waste, get out of my office"... anyone accepted at LECOM probably could have gone to the Carib where that scenario could happen. But, you went to LECOM, and you WILL get a residency and you will have a respectable education. Whether or not you are enjoying getting that education, that's another story.

 

[Loudster]

You guys are making a big deal out of things that really shouldn't be ruining your life. Lecom isn't a perfect school, but name one that is. Other schools have other problems and there will always be something to be upset about.

I second the questions about whether there any consequences for studying through lecture. You guys who are complaining about lecture are already there and frankly you're stuck attending. Someone else brought up switching seats to the back of the room and studying there, which seems like your best bet if you have to be in class but you also think the lecture material is a waste of time. It's not ideal, but what else can you guys do? Honestly, make the best with what you chose.

The big takeaway of this thread for me is that PBL > lectures in every way at lecom.

 

[Dr Yiot]

I was a little concerned about not learning the right things initially, but it's really not a concern. If you exercise some common sense, you'll be fine. For example, after your pulmonary embolism case, you'll select chapters from your textbooks that cover the clotting cascade and the drugs that work on it, read about it in your pathology textbook, or even brush up on relevant anatomy. Your tests are written based on what your group selects, so barring a mistake by the people making the exams (which does happen, but they'll drop the questions), you'll be tested on what you've studied. And considering that I've read about half of my physiology textbook several times in my first semester, as well as big chunks of biochemistry and a smattering of other things, I'm not worried that I'm going to miss much. Plus, the facilitators are supposed to rein you in if you start selecting chapters that aren't relevant to the case at hand, though I've heard there are some groups who've selected things just because they wanted to learn about it. If you steer clear of that kind of behavior and trust the process, you'll be fine.

You're not going to be told what to study, but you will know what you're going to be tested on. Instruction will be minimal, but it seems that most medical students feel lectures are mostly just a barrier to learning what they need to know. We just have to go to textbooks to get it, instead of having powerpoints to memorize.

You have to have the right mindset to go here. There's plenty of things from administration that seem arbitrary or over the top, and if you fixate on them and spend a bunch of time complaining about them with your classmates, you're going to be unhappy. I've had friends called in to talk with administration about things that I really don't think are their business, but they were concerned about how the student's behavior would reflect on the school. Even though I don't agree with it, it ultimately doesn't matter for me, since I come in with my badge and wearing my tie and don't make an ass of myself when I'm out in public. The rules can be a little bit of a hassle, but I think it's well worth the low cost of attendance and quality education. I can't speak to LDP specific things, but definately agree that it would be unpleasant to have that much mandatory lecture.

thanks so much for ur input. During undergrad I would got o lecture listen to slides and then repeatedly pound the crap into my head until. I memorized that which meant reading it over and over and over again off the slides and my notes. Now what would u say to someone who primarily has learned thru those methods PBL or LDP. I've always learned from slides and literally have never purchased or used a textbook since either freshmen or the beggining of sophomore year. That's why I'm a little hesitant to be using 100 percent textbooks for reference. Plus I think most textbooks at least in undergrad are written horribly and I found it difficult to learn from them rather than professors notes and slides

 

[Student DO c]

...

 

[Nymphicus]

1. SurfingPA you are so negative! First, I have forgotten my ID badge numerous times and you know what? I just kind of fake scanning in and follow someone else in! NEVER HAS IT BEEN AN ISSUE!

2. WE ALL WERE LDP FOR ANATOMY. WE ALL WERE LDP FOR ANATOMY! again WE ALL WERE LDP FOR ANATOMY!!!! ..... oh, and I really enjoyed going to school then! I liked LECOM-E then and I like it now.

3. Other then your comment I have never heard anyone even mention grade manipulation. In fact they post the grade breakdown after every exam. It usually looks like this (40 %-A 35 % B 20%-C 5% F) No one failed the actually anatomy class this year.

4. The big brother feel is there (sort of). If your not breaking any rules then it really isnt a big deal. For instance, if you show up in your proper clothes, with an ID badge, and dont bring beverages where your not suppose to, then, IDK it doenst feel like anyone is there watching you. Its kind of nice knowing that if I want to run out to get food I can leave my computer and books in the school knowing that NO ONE will steal them!

5. The administration is a little "tight" or old fashioned. However, they care. I struggled at points throughout the year and I had multiple teachers approach me asking me how I was doing and if I needed help. They were always there for me when I needed to talk too.

6. I do admit some things are lame, but I have heard this about other schools too. Yeah it sucks no water in lecture hall. But after about a week of it I was use to it and never really thought about it again. If i got thirsty I got water on my break or I just kind of left class for a minute.

7. The most important part of medical school is getting a quality education. The match lists, board results, and shelf exams speak for themselves. LECOM-Erie did exceptionally well on there Anatomy Shelf exam (as they do every year) but particularly this year. I think theres something like 10 people who matched Ortho-surgery including a few to M.D. programs. Most of all the reputation from what I understand from talking with some nurses and doctors at hospitals from various locations in the Pittsburgh and Cleveland area as well as a few school administrators that I know is very solid.

8. This is just my theory so take it for what it is. I find alot of the students at LECOM-Erie to be incredibly intelligent (multiple 35 + on MCATS). Something like 15 students scored over 2 standard deviations above the national average for the anatomy shelf exam for the MS-1's this year. Tons of the students are nurses, chiropractors, and PA's. The student body is very well rounded with people coming from all over with many different backgrounds. (A professional basketball player- who is also one of the most intelligent, nicest, and well respected people of the MS-1 class.) Therefor I believe that MOST of these students DO NOT post on this site. The people that post about LECOM-E seem to be disgruntled individuals (which you find at every school). However, at LECOM-E I do admit that if you fall into bad standing with administration or your a "rebel" then you will be more disgruntled. SurfingPA, you seem to have a personality of an arguer. No matter what it is if it isn't how you think it should be then you take a naysayer stance against it. People that have a problem being "babied" a little should probably avoid LECOM-E. If your mature and say it is what it is you'll make good friends, get a great education, and probably walk away from LECOM-E very content with the years you spent there. IMO I would choose LECOM-Erie over almost every other school if I could do it again. Why? Because I've really enjoyed my time here, made good friends, and am getting a quality education. Moral of the story: Every school sucks and is awesome. MED SCHOOL IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT TO BE!!!!!

I find this to be an odd statement.

SurfingPA (how does that work by the way?) seems to hate LECOM and is certainly enjoying bashing it here. However, I can't really blame him. I highly doubt they showcase these features during interviews or on their website.

We all understand that medical school is what you make of it. LECOM just seems to be more difficult about how you do it. Unfortunate.

 

[bleeker10]

I think it is so funny PBL people come on here and are like - "LECOM-erie is not that bad blah blah blah" - yeh it is not THAT bad for you all. PBL and LDP schedule/pathway/experience is like a 180 degree difference - no comparison.

The facts are the facts and people can sit here and TRY and defend LDP at LECOM-erie all they want but the facts remain and here let me list some things for some of you to ponder about that goes on in Erie - this is just a beautiful sampling from my first and part of my 2nd year:

- ID Badge in and out everyday (no ID badge, security pretty much looks at you like an idiot)
- Rift between administration and students
- LDP schedule is beyond ridiculous w/ mandatory attendance that is king at wasting time w/ countless horrible lectures (esp. in core classes)
- Unbelievable time wasting lectures to students that waste time when we can be studying on stupid childish things as someone stated above ("dont touch others", "who to report stuff to"...blah blah blah - these happen in very inopportune times)
- Awful physio and pharm. department --> this haunts you in 2nd year when you are basically learning a fair amount of it from scratch for LDP
- Big-brother feel every day
- Ridiculous childish rules like no water in class, no hoodies up even after hours in the freezing cafeteria
- Someone here finds it amusing to crap on the floor of the bathroom the past 3 years here...unbelievable but true
- Possible grade manipulation? Even if its not true - many students are left to wonder if they are - do you want that feeling?
- Security taking their job too seriously
- Changing from dress code to OMM clothes back to dress clothes back to anatomy lab clothes blah blah - just annoying
- Multiple poorly taught classes even in systems - think just reading off slides that look like 3rd grader put them together
- Etc etc - I have plenty more if you want me to keep going - I reserve some of the best ones.

The fact is do you want to deal with all this while attending med school - sure fly under the radar and may not have too many problems and just get churned out as a "foot soldier" in medicine with no real uniqueness to you as the AOA president basically told us in so many words - yes he called us the "foot soldiers" while the people at "Harvard are doing research" - we LECOM and DO's are doing the "real medicine". He said that...yes.

Sit here and debate me all you want, defend the school - that is fine. I just want some prospective people to know that there are a FEW positives to LECOM-erie LDP - I personally feel the dark side of the school and LDP pathway far outweighs those positives and I would have been A LOT happier at another school where I would have at least SOME pride in the school I attend.

Dude we get it. You hate LECOM. I can summarize every single one of your posts this same way. You are repeating yourself over and over. You're not gonna convince me to hate LECOM as much as you and I'm not gonna convince you to like LECOM as much as me. Other than a couple things, you keep whining about stuff you should've known before you started at LECOM so please stop acting like you have been surprised by it, especially since you are a second year. You can always try to transfer after boards

This is the best time of your first two years since you are in super easy, mostly DE classes (although geriatrics blows). Get off SDN and enjoy your break because next semester is gonna be even worse. You have boards coming up and that will consume your life. If I can give you one piece of advice, its this: Stop stressing about LECOM and their rules/regulations and how much you dispise them. You will be under immense stress the next 6 months. You don't need any added stress. LDP's schedule gets better next semester and the systems are much better. Study your ass off for 6 months and then you are into rotations. Life is so much better on rotations.

 

[bleeker10]

You guys are making a big deal out of things that really shouldn't be ruining your life. Lecom isn't a perfect school, but name one that is. Other schools have other problems and there will always be something to be upset about.

I second the questions about whether there any consequences for studying through lecture. You guys who are complaining about lecture are already there and frankly you're stuck attending. Someone else brought up switching seats to the back of the room and studying there, which seems like your best bet if you have to be in class but you also think the lecture material is a waste of time. It's not ideal, but what else can you guys do? Honestly, make the best with what you chose.

The big takeaway of this thread for me is that PBL > lectures in every way at lecom.

Nope there's no consequence to studying during lecture other than getting through the material you are studying. Not everyone uses just a laptop to study like I did. A lot of people print out the slides/lectures or write in notebooks. As long as you aren't being disruptive, you will be fine. Even PBL students would being their textbooks to class. The only times we had to put our stuff away was when we had presentations from outside speakers on things like organ donation, AOA pres visit, etc. But it's common sense stuff since you want to be respectful to these people who traveled all the way to Erie to speak.

I think LECOM would be much happier with students studying other material in lecture rather than having a 40 person group Gchat.

 

[SurfinginPA]

I find it funny pre-meds are sitting here posting and trying to play the "mature" card here. That is fine, call me an arguer, baby, disgruntled...in the end I am near top of the class and I am sure I will do fine on boards (knock on wood) because I figured a long time ago that my education was not going to come down to purely the poor teaching we get sometimes - so I have been board studying technically since 1st year, 2nd semester.

Sure, I MAY do just fine on boards, get a good residency, blah blah - maybe...who knows. That does not mean I like LECOM for what it is...everyone is different. Some people like the "structure" and "control" feeling - I don't. Plain and simple.

I choose not to disclose a lot of the really bizarre things because honestly it really is not worth discussing nor am I the type of person to come on here and just disclose certain things like that just to make a school look awful or embarrassing. Believe me or not - don't really care. I still attend LECOM and will graduate from there - like to preserve some dignity ;-)

Pre-meds - just wait Until then, please - you have no idea what you are talking about. And to the person that said that nobody will say "get out of my office - you went to LECOM" - no they won't put it that mean - they will be a little more discreet and professional about it. I have talked to multiple physicians that have had run-ins with LECOM students through rotations/residency and what not and they had awful experiences and will not make LECOM students a first choice...yes they told me that straight to my face. Again, believe me or not - don't really care. Obviously, that is a few select physicians but I assure you its not contained to just them.

Look, I said Anatomy was VERY well taught here - very well. Good professors and good course setup = well taught and good learning. From there it is up in the air. Again, blame me for not knowing what I was getting myself into or whatever. That is fine. I didn't know anyone that graduated from there and didn't get much chance to ask to many specifics in the lunchroom in my interview that day...even though that is pretty "controlled"...mainly PBL, ISP students and student govt people talk to the interviewees - so of course its going to be a "little" biased there. I basically got dragged through the miraculous "show" they put on about LECOM and fell for it.

Point is - med school is hard enough but LECOM makes it harder with their "bizarro" ways. And for your information - No, I don't study at LECOM anymore because I try to minimize my contact with that building as much as possible.

Of course I envy PBL and ISP...I am not afraid to admit that.

LECOM will in the end graduate you and make you a physician and you will probably do alright on your boards because most people are smart enough to study hard for boards and what not. But, its the path to that point that I feel I would have been much happier at a school that didn't use the communistic mindset that LECOM employs and their awful LDP schedule and policies.

Criticize me, call me wrong, disgruntled - don't care...just wish I had heard at least "part truth" and straightforward like this before I made my decision on a med school - even if I did have to choose a bit more expensive school.

Bleeker - respect that you like LECOM and you will defend it...I understand it fits certain people. I am not stressing about anything with LECOM - I just want to express what I wish I had heard before I made my decision - this is the kind of post I wish I had come across - sure it "seems" disgruntled but many people on here will tell you what I am saying for the most part is 100% true - some people like it and some people don't.

 

[bleeker10]

I do have to disagree with your counterpoints here. Yes, it's important to not molest children. Yes, it's important to not die in a car wreck because you're not accustomed to driving in snow. No, these are not things that you need to waste people's time with. It's common sense and not relevant to your medical education. Why not give a talk on the importance of not committing murder?

It's not like LECOM gives this talk every year. I'm sure it was given because of extenuating circumstances that happened at PSU. It's similar to the Va Tech shootings in 2007. My undergrad sent out information on what the students should do in case something like that happened. Was this likely to happen at my undergrad? Nope. But it's helpful to have information. As far as the snow stuff, well thats a very real thing students have to deal with. The talk isn't so much about not dying in a car wreck in snow, but more about LECOM's policies (don't ever expect it to close for a snow day) and what to expect from the winter season in Erie.

He's paying good money to be taught the material, so it doesn't make sense to tell him to quit complaining and learn it on his own. That's not what the lecture pathway is about. Not every department is going to be stellar, but it's fair to complain about the ones you don't think are good.

Studying your own thing during a lecture is obviously going to be less efficient than doing it in the library, so I don't think it's fair to tell him to do this if he doesn't feel that he's getting a good education. What's the point of the lectures he's paying 30 grand for then?

I'm telling him to make the best out of a crappy situation. You can't change the mandatory attendance or subpar lectures. Just because you're in class doesn't mean you have to pay attention. I came to LECOM thinking lectures were what I needed, that I needed the direction and live teaching and that I couldn't handle learning the material by myself. I quickly found out that I stopped paying attention and would do other things to pass the time. I ended up doing a lot of reading from review books. I could've handled ISP but I figured since I was doing well in LDP, why change to ISP?

You want to know what you are paying 30 grand for? You are paying that money for the chance to take 4 licensing exams, complete the residency you desire and become a practicing physician.

 

[pianoman511]

And to the person that said that nobody will say "get out of my office - you went to LECOM" - no they won't put it that mean - they will be a little more discreet and professional about it. I have talked to multiple physicians that have had run-ins with LECOM students through rotations/residency and what not and they had awful experiences and will not make LECOM students a first choice...yes they told me that straight to my face. Again, believe me or not - don't really care. Obviously, that is a few select physicians but I assure you its not contained to just them.

Actually... I have heard quite the opposite from my attendings and from other students - that they have great experiences with LECOM students and see them as more professional and knowledgeable than students from other schools. (continue personal anecdotes...)

 

[SurfinginPA]

^ Again, READ the post please - I said it is concentrated to a few. I no where said it was universal but someone tried to make it sound like it never happens...it does...its just the reality. Obviously you are a 4th year and I really don't know as much as you but I merely just wanted to state that bias IS out there but no where near the majority but it does exist.

The thing that is frustrating is that if LECOM dropped their communistic policies, lightened up, invested in some better professors for certain subjects and stop having random professors merely just give the lecture even if they have no specialty in the topic/subject & actually listened to what the MAJORITY of the students want and their complaints they would have A LOT better environment and all this talk would disappear. Sure there will be problems, just like with any school - but there is so much "promise" in what this school could be "experience" wise if they just dropped the communistic attitude and their "above everyone and every other school" attitude.

 

[pianoman511]

I'm telling him to make the best out of a crappy situation. You can't change the mandatory attendance or subpar lectures. Just because you're in class doesn't mean you have to pay attention. I came to LECOM thinking lectures were what I needed, that I needed the direction and live teaching and that I couldn't handle learning the material by myself. I quickly found out that I stopped paying attention and would do other things to pass the time. I ended up doing a lot of reading from review books. I could've handled ISP but I figured since I was doing well in LDP, why change to ISP?

You want to know what you are paying 30 grand for? You are paying that money for the chance to take 4 licensing exams, complete the residency you desire and become a practicing physician.

I know it gets hard between anatomy and the beginning of third year because frustrations are at an all time high. That being said you have to figure out what learning style works for you. Just as bleeker noted I think I would have done fine in ISP (because it was pretty much what I ended up doing through preclinical years), but didn't see a reason to change.

Any medical school will get you a degree. LECOM will do it cheaper than other schools and has some caveats, but you still get a decent education. Some aspects will be more in your court than other schools but its just something to get through. The best thing to remember is that preclinical years are the hardest regardless of pathway or medical school but there is an end-point.

Some days I would look back and love to be sitting in a lecture hall on gchat, daydreaming about what I could be doing instead of sitting in lecture....but instead have been standing for 6+ hours holding a retractor for a surgery where I couldn't even see the surgical field...

 

[gators21]

I find it funny pre-meds are sitting here posting and trying to play the "mature" card here. That is fine, call me an arguer, baby, disgruntled...in the end I am near top of the class and I am sure I will do fine on boards (knock on wood) because I figured a long time ago that my education was not going to come down to purely the poor teaching we get sometimes - so I have been board studying technically since 1st year, 2nd semester.

Sure, I MAY do just fine on boards, get a good residency, blah blah - maybe...who knows. That does not mean I like LECOM for what it is...everyone is different. Some people like the "structure" and "control" feeling - I don't. Plain and simple.

I choose not to disclose a lot of the really bizarre things because honestly it really is not worth discussing nor am I the type of person to come on here and just disclose certain things like that just to make a school look awful or embarrassing. Believe me or not - don't really care. I still attend LECOM and will graduate from there - like to preserve some dignity ;-)

Pre-meds - just wait Until then, please - you have no idea what you are talking about. And to the person that said that nobody will say "get out of my office - you went to LECOM" - no they won't put it that mean - they will be a little more discreet and professional about it. I have talked to multiple physicians that have had run-ins with LECOM students through rotations/residency and what not and they had awful experiences and will not make LECOM students a first choice...yes they told me that straight to my face. Again, believe me or not - don't really care. Obviously, that is a few select physicians but I assure you its not contained to just them.

Look, I said Anatomy was VERY well taught here - very well. Good professors and good course setup = well taught and good learning. From there it is up in the air. Again, blame me for not knowing what I was getting myself into or whatever. That is fine. I didn't know anyone that graduated from there and didn't get much chance to ask to many specifics in the lunchroom in my interview that day...even though that is pretty "controlled"...mainly PBL, ISP students and student govt people talk to the interviewees - so of course its going to be a "little" biased there. I basically got dragged through the miraculous "show" they put on about LECOM and fell for it.

Point is - med school is hard enough but LECOM makes it harder with their "bizarro" ways. And for your information - No, I don't study at LECOM anymore because I try to minimize my contact with that building as much as possible.

Of course I envy PBL and ISP...I am not afraid to admit that.

LECOM will in the end graduate you and make you a physician and you will probably do alright on your boards because most people are smart enough to study hard for boards and what not. But, its the path to that point that I feel I would have been much happier at a school that didn't use the communistic mindset that LECOM employs and their awful LDP schedule and policies.

Criticize me, call me wrong, disgruntled - don't care...just wish I had heard at least "part truth" and straightforward like this before I made my decision on a med school - even if I did have to choose a bit more expensive school.

Bleeker - respect that you like LECOM and you will defend it...I understand it fits certain people. I am not stressing about anything with LECOM - I just want to express what I wish I had heard before I made my decision - this is the kind of post I wish I had come across - sure it "seems" disgruntled but many people on here will tell you what I am saying for the most part is 100% true - some people like it and some people don't.

Now I know your prob gonna tell me to shut up and go back to the beach because im in bradenton but do you not see the irony in your posts.
Lecom should be worried about their reputation because that does directly affect you. There are more med students than ever with the same number of good rotation spots. Medicine is a small community, in which one students actions can affect classes down the line. You even acknoledge this in later posts.
You say you dont want to reveal certain thing to "damage" a school, but that is all you have done in your post.
Dude we get it, you made the wrong choice. If you want to come down to bradenton, there is a hug waiting for you

 

[SurfinginPA]

The stuff we are talking about doesn't "damage" a school...most of these things are difference of philosophy type things. Do you want to feel controlled and feel like big brother is watching you all the time? I don't...some people like that. Same goes for most of the other things. LECOM should be worried about their reputation....as much as any other school should...which involves doing things a normal school would do. But, they are not "normal" when it comes to that. It is quite apparent from Day 1 and they make it very clear that LECOM reputation is supreme. Obviously, I can respect that a school's reputation being important but not to the same cult like feeling it is here...its just one of those things again that some people don't mind and some people just don't want to feel part of the LECOM "cult". And your right - you are down in Bradenton - I am jealous of you and it is totally different down there...blah blah blah, I am not afraid to admit that and you have to know that is true.

 

[bleeker10]

^ Again, READ the post please - I said it is concentrated to a few. I no where said it was universal but someone tried to make it sound like it never happens...it does...its just the reality. Obviously you are a 4th year and I really don't know as much as you but I merely just wanted to state that bias IS out there but no where near the majority but it does exist.

The thing that is frustrating is that if LECOM dropped their communistic policies, lightened up, invested in some better professors for certain subjects and stop having random professors merely just give the lecture even if they have no specialty in the topic/subject & actually listened to what the MAJORITY of the students want and their complaints they would have A LOT better environment and all this talk would disappear. Sure there will be problems, just like with any school - but there is so much "promise" in what this school could be "experience" wise if they just dropped the communistic attitude and their "above everyone and every other school" attitude.

I reread your previous post and you say you spoke to multiple physicians, but later say its just a few. So which is it? You are discrediting your own argument by flip flopping. Also, if it's just a few select physicians that felt this way, how are you able to assure us it's not contained to just them? Either you are lying by saying its only a few physicians or you are extending their feelings to other physicians you don't know.

Of course there are some bad students at LECOM. This occurs at every school. These students would have a bad reputation not matter which school they went to and some were accepted to multiple schools.

Lastly, every time someone on here challenges your statements, you retreat to the topic of not wanting to be part of the cult feeling. You really havent given any solid evidence to support your claims. You don't want to damage LECOM's reputation by saying bad things? Let's see what you have to say. You've already tried to damage the reputation of the school many times in this thread.

 

[deleted245139]

no offense...

You very well may become one of the students that will give attending negative impressions about the school if you don't turn that frown upside down. I hear from attendings DAILY that they like LECOM students a lot. Now the reasons may be two fold...
1- The student worked hard, liked his/her education, and looks like a stud on rotation
2- The student HATED LECOM with a passion, and BECAUSE of it busts their ass to look like a stud on rotation.

The ones who give a ****ty impression of the school are the ones who roll over and die, give NO effort and are a waste of space in the hospital. Don't be that guy/girl. I'm not spitting LECOM propaganda. Haha, hell... ask Bleeker10. First yr I was one of the most vocal/outspoken students when it came to complaints about LECOM. I actually came on here to post a thread VERY similar to yours. Over three years I've had an opportunity to grow into myself and my education, and you will too. The people on here are telling you to take a step back, take a deep breath and keep chuggin' along. We're not patronizing or vilifying you - just giving you what a few short years of wisdom have given us.

That said... you're not in the right head space to heed ANYTHING people are saying. You think what you're doing is providing future students a service. What you're really just doing is venting,.. and thats FINE, but lets call a spade a spade. I hope things work out for ya

 

[illegallysmooth]

no offense...

You very well may become one of the students that will give attending negative impressions about the school if you don't turn that frown upside down. I hear from attendings DAILY that they like LECOM students a lot. Now the reasons may be two fold...
1- The student worked hard, liked his/her education, and looks like a stud on rotation
2- The student HATED LECOM with a passion, and BECAUSE of it busts their ass to look like a stud on rotation.

The ones who give a ****ty impression of the school are the ones who roll over and die, give NO effort and are a waste of space in the hospital. Don't be that guy/girl. I'm not spitting LECOM propaganda. Haha, hell... ask Bleeker10. First yr I was one of the most vocal/outspoken students when it came to complaints about LECOM. I actually came on here to post a thread VERY similar to yours. Over three years I've had an opportunity to grow into myself and my education, and you will too. The people on here are telling you to take a step back, take a deep breath and keep chuggin' along. We're not patronizing or vilifying you - just giving you what a few short years of wisdom have given us.

That said... you're not in the right head space to heed ANYTHING people are saying. You think what you're doing is providing future students a service. What you're really just doing is venting,.. and thats FINE, but lets call a spade a spade. I hope things work out for ya

 

[DuxburyPembroke]

...I hear from attendings DAILY that they like LECOM students a lot. Now the reasons may be two fold...
1- The student worked hard, liked his/her education, and looks like a stud on rotation
2- The student HATED LECOM with a passion, and BECAUSE of it busts their ass to look like a stud on rotation...

Student Type #2 checking in here - I try extra hard on rotations because I came from a school that I felt actively worked against my education. That made me work extra hard in the pre-clinical years, and makes me feel like I have something to prove on the wards. There are crappy LECOM students too, but I see a lot more people doing what I do, so I think that overall we do earn a good reputation, and deserve it. My experience at LECOM (SH, and Erie by proxy) was that it provides a crappy education and that it is run by some truly vile people, however, it produces (paradoxically maybe) very good student physicians... I will be a great doctor who graduated from LECOM. I'm not sure what that means in the long run, but it is what it is.

 

[bleeker10]

Good advice from Janus and Duxbury. Even if you like LECOM, bust your butt on rotations. Try to be the best student you can be. Be that student that gives LECOM a good name. I've had a couple rotations with docs who have never had a med student. I used that as motivation to do my best so they will want more students later on. I didn't want to be the reason they would never wanna precept for a student again. I also had one doc who didn't know anything about DOs so I wanted to use that as motivation to give us a good reputation. Break stereotypes or prejudices against us. A doc may hate DO/LECOM students generally, but make them think you are the exception to that rule.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Good advice from Janus and Duxbury. Even if you like LECOM, bust your butt on rotations. Try to be the best student you can be. Be that student that gives LECOM a good name. I've had a couple rotations with docs who have never had a med student. I used that as motivation to do my best so they will want more students later on. I didn't want to be the reason they would never wanna precept for a student again. I also had one doc who didn't know anything about DOs so I wanted to use that as motivation to give us a good reputation. Break stereotypes or prejudices against us. A doc may hate DO/LECOM students generally, but make them think you are the exception to that rule.

Exactly! Don't **** **** up for me!!! I don't want to come into my clinicals in 3 years and have them remember grumpy people! I'm fun and I don't want to have to be extra funny just to work against a bad image!!!


And OP, we all get (even us lowly premeds) that you are unhappy. Guess what, I'm probably older than you, and worked in a miserable job longer than you'll be in med school. I understand. I complained about my job, however deserving the company was of my complaints there are always going to be people that don't want to hear it, or don't see things the same way... it is what it is...

 

[illegallysmooth]

I feel like LECOM's attitude, which some people dislike, is that it's the student's responsibility to take control of his/her own education. They're offering you what you need to train to be a professional, but they won't hold your hand. If you need help, it's not hard to find, but YOU have to find it. If you break the rules, they don't have much sympathy for you. However, my friend is currently going through a medical problem and needed lots of testing done in another state, and the admin. was plenty accommodating for her.

I look around and see two types of students:
X) People who came here with the intent to be responsible for their own education, bust their ass and learn. They are generally passionate about medicine, hard-working and nice to be around. They have great relationships with faculty and admin. They might joke now and then about the dress code and security, because it's humorous and doesn't matter all that much. Some of them might even seriously dislike LECOM for whatever reason, but they don't stress themselves out over it. Keep calm and carry on, you know?

Y) People who came here expecting to be taught, shown, and led by the hand. They end up bitter about the lack of (fill in the blank) but haven't really made the effort to find it themselves. They don't show up for mandatory events, get crap from the admin, whine about the dress code, get mad at security, etc. I think they just have a different way of looking at things, a different attitude and different expectations of an educational institution. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, unless you go to LECOM.

I really hope the Y students will be irJanus' #2 students, busting their ass on rotation to prove people wrong. I'm sure some do, but others don't - and I think those are more often the students that give LECOM a bad name. On the other hand, the X (or #1) students end up with some of the best board scores around the country, and I think it's because they learn to be self-directed, no matter which pathway. These are the students who walk into their first rotation and impress the pants off of people (which I've heard directly from residents and 1 PD).

LECOM is just not for everyone. But if you have the right attitude and personality for LECOM, you can enjoy your time here and get an excellent education.

 

[sylvanthus]

"I feel like LECOM's attitude, which some people dislike, is that it's the student's responsibility to take control of his/her own education. They're offering you what you need to train to be a professional, but they won't hold your hand."

I have to make a comment about this as this annoys the bejeesuz out of me. I see this as a cop out and excuse for the school to be lazy and place the responsibility on the student. Medical students are paying ****tons of money and so have the right to expect certain things regarding their education. Namely, teach me and inform me what is important to know. If I have to teach myself, what is the bloody point of medical school? Why not just study at home and take step 1 when you feel ready and open up step 1 to everyone? This whole "taking responsibility for one's own education" is merely an excuse for laziness on the part of the school.

 

[illegallysmooth]

"I feel like LECOM's attitude, which some people dislike, is that it's the student's responsibility to take control of his/her own education. They're offering you what you need to train to be a professional, but they won't hold your hand."

I have to make a comment about this as this annoys the bejeesuz out of me. I see this as a cop out and excuse for the school to be lazy and place the responsibility on the student. Medical students are paying ****tons of money and so have the right to expect certain things regarding their education. Namely, teach me and inform me what is important to know. If I have to teach myself, what is the bloody point of medical school? Why not just study at home and take step 1 when you feel ready and open up step 1 to everyone? This whole "taking responsibility for one's own education" is merely an excuse for laziness on the part of the school.

Sorry to annoy you, lol. I totally respect your take on things. That's a perfectly valid way to look at it, and I definitely tell pre-DOs that if they feel like you do, LECOM is probably not the best school for them. Although, I should point out that LECOM does a good job of outlining what's important to know and what we need to do (IMO, at least), they just don't hold our hands through it. I think perhaps my perspective comes from years of doing everything myself -- in undergrad I worked overnights, slept through morning lectures and taught myself the material. When I DID go to lectures I was bored to hell. I treated my masters program the same way, so that's the attitude I brought to LECOM as well. I realize not everyone is like this and therefore appreciates different qualities in an educational institution. May it IS a cop-out on LECOM's part. Then again, maybe this produces more proactive and self-directed student physicians and residents, whether intentional or not. :: Just comes down to what you want out of a school.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I have to make a comment about this as this annoys the bejeesuz out of me. I see this as a cop out and excuse for the school to be lazy and place the responsibility on the student. Medical students are paying ****tons of money and so have the right to expect certain things regarding their education. Namely, teach me and inform me what is important to know. If I have to teach myself, what is the bloody point of medical school? Why not just study at home and take step 1 when you feel ready and open up step 1 to everyone? This whole "taking responsibility for one's own education" is merely an excuse for laziness on the part of the school.

I assume you aren't in a PBL pathway, as that is the entire point of a PBL pathway, I teach myself. I teach myself because I am learning for the sake of the knowledge itself, not coming in and trying to learn from someone else talking at me... The school isn't responsible for making you learn, you have to want to do it. If you don't want to do it, no amount of effort on their part will get you to where you need to be. I chose PBL for this reason, I want to learn it and learn it well. In context so it makes sense, and learn it forever, not just to spew it out on one test and forget it and then have to study my ass of to relearn it for the Comlex... Either way, I am paying them for the privilege of being there, not for them to hold my hand...

 

[csmittyB]

I feel like LECOM's attitude, which some people dislike, is that it's the student's responsibility to take control of his/her own education. They're offering you what you need to train to be a professional, but they won't hold your hand. ...

Then why is lecture attendance mandatory? If LECOM wanted students to take control of their education, wouldn't lecture be optional? Wouldn't the school record the lectures so that students could watch them at home at their leisure? Wouldn't you get the opportunity to test drive each pathway? I think LECOM is more about, this is how we do things, deal with it. Luckily, my pathway allows me some freedom. I don't know how LDP does it. Sitting through those geriatric lectures with vague objectives makes me realize how lucky I am and how unlucky LDP is.

 

[illegallysmooth]

Then why is lecture attendance mandatory? If LECOM wanted students to take control of their education, wouldn't lecture be optional? Wouldn't the school record the lectures so that students could watch them at home at their leisure? Wouldn't you get the opportunity to test drive each pathway? I think LECOM is more about, this is how we do things, deal with it. Luckily, my pathway allows me some freedom. I don't know how LDP does it. Sitting through those geriatric lectures with vague objectives makes me realize how lucky I am and how unlucky LDP is.

I think test-driving each pathway would be completely chaotic and probably result in a lot of wasted time for a lot of people, but I totally agree that no lectures should be mandatory at this level of education. I'm also really happy to not be in LDP.

 

[SurfinginPA]

Say I am "venting" that is fine. Your wrong but whatever makes you feel you can analyze me - go right ahead. Oh my gosh did I generalize and say a "few" doctors and then said "multiple" - LOL last time I checked a few is multiple...do I need to count them and tell the exact # to you...3 (3 would be...multiple). I was just trying to show a point that while the majority is not biased - it DOES exist.

Oh my gosh...would you believe it...I am paying money to...wait for it...get a medical education. I expect a good medical education...sure, I can teach myself as I have been doing and learn it, do well on boards, blah blah...but what am I paying 30,000 a year for...just the opportunity to be in med school and have someone blindly read off powerpoints to me with no real knowledge of the topic - obviously that is a overgeneralization but happens quite often.

I will probably be the type 2 person if I had to choose as someone said above...right now I am doing fine, near top of the class, etc...but I despise my school selection. I don't really need to vent as some people are coming on here and saying...I am happy I have figured out what works for me regardless of the awful experience in my opinion LECOM - LDP gives...just wish it did not have to be that way and feel that another school would have definitely been a better overall experience.

Believe it or not - I am doing a "service" as you want to call it for some people that may read this - LECOM is definitely not for everyone. Especially if you are LDP. So, if I "save" a few people that are trying to decide between schools then that makes me feel good because this is the type of thread that would have made me choose my in state MD school I got accepted to instead of LECOM irregardless of the price.

If you want to call a spade a spade - then you are just trying to generalize me into a certain type of student - one that is disgruntled, venting, etc because you think you can group me into that type because I don't like the school and disagree with a lot of how they run things and their overall general outlook. You are wrong. I merely am trying to give a honest look into LECOM - LDP for those that were like me - "on the fence" trying to decide between schools - I wish I had this thread before I chose schools. I am not sugar coating it.

Continue with the accusation of I am a disgruntled student and just venting...blah blah blah. Couldn't be more wrong

 

[engineeredout]

Up until rotations/dealing with clin ED I would have said that LECOM is a pain in the ass but the tuition makes it worth it.

Now I couldn't recommend it to anyone unless it was their last resort. I'm so fed up with this school and the administration. I want them to leave me the hell alone for the next 1.5 years but they seem to be constantly coming up with bull**** to waste our time even though we're supposed to be away from them (requiring us to go back to Erie to take practice courses with them for Step 2 PE?? Isn't that what rotations are?) Not to mention crapping up 4th year rotation spots which were supposed to be not a big deal.

Let me break down what contacting clin ed involves:

First 20 minutes: Getting bitched at because they have work to do and we're not the only students and how we shouldn't be contacting them.
15 minutes: Not listening to what you actually said and doing something different.
30 seconds: The time it takes for them to actually complete the task.

If I didn't have to see, hear from, or contact LECOM until graduation I would be ecstatic.

Edit: I take it back. They have been helpful. We've been advised to practice sitting in a chair for three hours at a time to get ready for the shelf exams. Reading about pediatrics or surgery isn't essential, but literally getting your butt ready will be.

 

[illegallysmooth]

Say I am "venting" that is fine. Your wrong but whatever makes you feel you can analyze me - go right ahead. Oh my gosh did I generalize and say a "few" doctors and then said "multiple" - LOL last time I checked a few is multiple...do I need to count them and tell the exact # to you...3 (3 would be...multiple). I was just trying to show a point that while the majority is not biased - it DOES exist.

Oh my gosh...would you believe it...I am paying money to...wait for it...get a medical education. I expect a good medical education...sure, I can teach myself as I have been doing and learn it, do well on boards, blah blah...but what am I paying 30,000 a year for...just the opportunity to be in med school and have someone blindly read off powerpoints to me with no real knowledge of the topic - obviously that is a overgeneralization but happens quite often.

I will probably be the type 2 person if I had to choose as someone said above...right now I am doing fine, near top of the class, etc...but I despise my school selection. I don't really need to vent as some people are coming on here and saying...I am happy I have figured out what works for me regardless of the awful experience in my opinion LECOM - LDP gives...just wish it did not have to be that way and feel that another school would have definitely been a better overall experience.

Believe it or not - I am doing a "service" as you want to call it for some people that may read this - LECOM is definitely not for everyone. Especially if you are LDP. So, if I "save" a few people that are trying to decide between schools then that makes me feel good because this is the type of thread that would have made me choose my in state MD school I got accepted to instead of LECOM irregardless of the price.

If you want to call a spade a spade - then you are just trying to generalize me into a certain type of student - one that is disgruntled, venting, etc because you think you can group me into that type because I don't like the school and disagree with a lot of how they run things and their overall general outlook. You are wrong. I merely am trying to give a honest look into LECOM - LDP for those that were like me - "on the fence" trying to decide between schools - I wish I had this thread before I chose schools. I am not sugar coating it.

Continue with the accusation of I am a disgruntled student and just venting...blah blah blah. Couldn't be more wrong

Much of the reason you're catching so much flack for your posts is due to your general attitude and the emotion that you exude. Just something to keep in mind for the future. If you don't want to be taken as a bitter, sarcastic, angry, petty, disgruntled student, well... try harder not to sound that way? I don't mean to be offensive, really. But that's how you come across.

 

[SurfinginPA]

If people want to judge what I sound like on a message board - then that is fine. I am not going to change how I write just to please people on a message board. Am I judging others on here...no...am I making judgments on the type of person someone is because they have a 1000+ posts on SDN...no...or the type of person someone may be to defend LECOM - no I am not going to judge somebody or "classify" them as someone when I don't even know them. I have plenty of friends at LECOM that don't mind the communistic feel LECOM has - do I despise them for that point of view...NO. No reason to judge others.

Just basically trying to get some of the sugar-coating off that LECOM likes to put on their school and shed a little light on just SOME of the reality that goes on here.

I am just giving people the facts which even people that disagree with how I am coming across can assert to what most I am saying is true.

Engineeredout pretty much summed up the attitude of administration in his post. It just seems like sometimes they want to waste your time with stuff. Time is valuable, time is money, etc. Yet, they treat time like its disposable.