Less Popular University Programs?

[penguindude]

Hi there,
As an east-coast US IM applicant with a step 1 score around 220, step 2 score around 230s and a third year grades of mostly high passes with a few honors, I was wondering what my chances might look like at lesser popular university or university affiliated programs. I've sent out a batch of applications mainly for the NE, and I've been trying to gauge where I'd stand regarding southern and west-coast programs based on sdn and program website descriptions. I was hoping maybe some of you would have a better idea regarding good-yet-not-as-selective programs, and could recommend places to consider in the South or west coast. At this point, I haven't really decided yet on pursuing a specialty vs primary care.

Thank you in advance for your help. and good luck to those of you who are applying!

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[disorder]

Hi there,
As an east-coast US IM applicant with a step 1 score around 220, step 2 score around 230s and a third year grades of mostly high passes with a few honors, I was wondering what my chances might look like at lesser popular university or university affiliated programs. I've sent out a batch of applications mainly for the NE, and I've been trying to gauge where I'd stand regarding southern and west-coast programs based on sdn and program website descriptions. I was hoping maybe some of you would have a better idea regarding good-yet-not-as-selective programs, and could recommend places to consider in the South or west coast. At this point, I haven't really decided yet on pursuing a specialty vs primary care.

Thank you in advance for your help. and good luck to those of you who are applying!

West
UofArizona
USC
UCI
UUtah maybe
UCD maybe
and pretty much any university affiliated program on the west coast.

South
ask someone else, i didn't apply anywhere in the south.

 

[penguindude]

*tips hat* Thank you kindly for your input. I'm looking into the programs you listed. Anyone have suggestions for the South?

 

[medstudent7860]

Does anyone have any suggestions for the Midwest as well? Particularly in Illinois/around the Chicago area

 

[sluggs]

South: UNC, Wake Forest, Univ Fla, MUSC, UVA, VCU
MIdwest: Wisconsin, Rush, UIC, U minn, Iowa (midwest?), Pitt

All of these places are strong in several IM disciplines and sub-disciplines and none is particularly competitive. Your numbers will get you looks at all of them

 

[gutonc]

South: UNC, Wake Forest, Univ Fla, MUSC, UVA, VCU
MIdwest: Wisconsin, Rush, UIC, U minn, Iowa (midwest?), Pitt

All of these places are strong in several IM disciplines and sub-disciplines and none is particularly competitive. Your numbers will get you looks at all of them

Sluggs has clearly been drinkin' again.

UNC, Wisconsin and Pitt are all quite competitive. And LOL at questioning whether Iowa belongs in the Midwest category but not blinking at putting Pitt in it.

I have no idea about the South but in the Midwest I'd add: SLU, UCinn, OSU, IU, Loyola, KU, UNMC, MCW, CCF (no...seriously...it's not competitive), Case (if you can parse which of the programs is real Case).... Hell...that's 10 programs right there.

 

[Lazarius]

Being from the Midwest I can tell you that the ones gutonc mentioned are all good places to spend residency with very good fellowship chances. I would put IU and case (the real one) on top of that list but those might be tough for you to get. Ccf might be a good place to bridge for fellowship although they mostly attract IMGs with very high usmles who want cards or gi so I don't know if they would be interested. Mcw and OSU are good programs all around. Cincy is great for IM training and primary care but with very unimpressive inhouse fellowships. SLU is ok but quite overshadowed by the big WashU. Loyola is super duper meh but it's in Chicago. Also you might wanna look at UIC, metrohealth, UK, Louisville, UAMS. All are reasonable options.

 

[DermViser]

South: UNC, Wake Forest, Univ Fla, MUSC, UVA, VCU
MIdwest: Wisconsin, Rush, UIC, U minn, Iowa (midwest?), Pitt

All of these places are strong in several IM disciplines and sub-disciplines and none is particularly competitive. Your numbers will get you looks at all of them

UNC and Pitt? Not competitive? Uh, no.

 

[AZhopeful]

Iowa is actually getting quite competitive- have a friend there in the program leadership who told me they had almost 3000 applications this year, they rapidly filled their interview spots, and so far they haven't invited anyone with a Step 1 below 245- not because they're shallow and look only at test scores, but because they have to draw a line somewhere to make the pool more manageable. Not sure how this compares to other IM programs at large(maybe the field is getting more desirable? hahahaha), but I believe it here. The above numbers might seem exaggerated, but my friend is not one for hyperbole. I think several of the non-Mayo Midwest programs are very good even though the coast bias is rampant on SDN.

OP: don't freak out and take heart that one of the positive things about IM is that it is a MASSIVE specialty, and that there are quality programs all across the country. Just apply broadly and see what happens.

And Iowa is definitely 'midwest.'

 

[Elixir6]

Iowa is actually getting quite competitive- have a friend there in the program leadership who told me they had almost 3000 applications this year, they rapidly filled their interview spots, and so far they haven't invited anyone with a Step 1 below 245- not because they're shallow and look only at test scores, but because they have to draw a line somewhere to make the pool more manageable. Not sure how this compares to other IM programs at large(maybe the field is getting more desirable? hahahaha), but I believe it here. The above numbers might seem exaggerated, but my friend is not one for hyperbole. I think several of the non-Mayo Midwest programs are very good even though the coast bias is rampant on SDN.

OP: don't freak out and take heart that one of the positive things about IM is that it is a MASSIVE specialty, and that there are quality programs all across the country. Just apply broadly and see what happens.

And Iowa is definitely 'midwest.'

Cut off Step 1 at 245 for interviews? Are you sure? In the latest Charting Outcomes 2014, it seems only about 800 US Grads applying to IM had scores above 245, and I'm guessing only a fraction of them applied to U of Iowa. I know Iowa is good and all, and that IM is becoming more competitive, but this scares me since that's right around my Step score. Also FWIW, in the IM match lists for the past two years I saw a few scores in mid-230s and 240s matching at places like BWH, Duke and MGH. I'd find it hard to believe that Iowa would set its interview cutoff higher than the scores of people matching into "top" 5-10 IM programs. Are they gonna drop the cutoff 15 points in a few weeks???

I'm starting doubt everything and become detached from reality because of SDN. If IM is gonna be this competitive to match at a good program I might as well go into Rad Onc since on their forums I saw a WAMC with someone having a 230s Step 1 told they wouldn't have a big problem matching if they applied broadly. This is craziness.

(edit... post had read would have a big problem matching. I meant wouldn't)

 

[AZhopeful]

Cut off Step 1 at 245 for interviews? Are you sure? In the latest Charting Outcomes 2014, it seems only about 800 US Grads applying to IM had scores above 245, and I'm guessing only a fraction of them applied to U of Iowa. I know Iowa is good and all, and that IM is becoming more competitive, but this scares me since that's right around my Step score. Also FWIW, in the IM match lists for the past two years I saw a few scores in mid-230s and 240s matching at places like BWH, Duke and MGH. I'd find it hard to believe that Iowa would set its interview cutoff higher than the scores of people matching into "top" 5-10 IM programs. Are they gonna drop the cutoff 15 points in a few weeks???

I'm starting doubt everything and become detached from reality because of SDN. If IM is gonna be this competitive to match at a good program I might as well go into Rad Onc since on their forums I saw a WAMC with someone having a 230s Step 1 told they would have a big problem matching if they applied broadly. This is craziness.

My friend may have meant that that was where their first cutoff for interview considerations were, I don't know. Despite all of this, I can still tell you that good IM places, even the ivory towers of the world, match people with very average board scores- sometimes because of the vagaries of the match process, and sometimes because they value a lot more than test scores.

You're right, SDN will drive you crazy during application season. Just remember what I said before- IM is so big, that there are lots and lots of positions at lots of very good places across the country- it's not like this is rad onc or something where there are like 5 spots in the whole world. The size of IM will help you in the end.

 

[jdh71]

I had to show objective proof of saving orphans from a burning building with a news clipping in order to get in. So, yes, you are all screwed.

 

[GreenLED]

Iowa is actually getting quite competitive- have a friend there in the program leadership who told me they had almost 3000 applications this year, they rapidly filled their interview spots, and so far they haven't invited anyone with a Step 1 below 245- not because they're shallow and look only at test scores, but because they have to draw a line somewhere to make the pool more manageable. Not sure how this compares to other IM programs at large(maybe the field is getting more desirable? hahahaha), but I believe it here. The above numbers might seem exaggerated, but my friend is not one for hyperbole. I think several of the non-Mayo Midwest programs are very good even though the coast bias is rampant on SDN.

OP: don't freak out and take heart that one of the positive things about IM is that it is a MASSIVE specialty, and that there are quality programs all across the country. Just apply broadly and see what happens.

And Iowa is definitely 'midwest.'

false. i have a low 230s.

 

[jdh71]

The seeds of deceit are sown at SDN!!

Who can we trust? What is truth?

 

[Elixir6]

Exactly - what is truth?

I heard from a friend of a friend on Reddit - and I never go there as a faithful SDNer - that at JHH they sew teams of 5 interns a$$ to mouth in rank order from highest to lowest using this complicated formula:

[0.7*(Step 1 score)+(Step 2 score)+270*(1 for AOA, 0 for no AOA)]*(1 + your corrected reticulocyte count)/(rank of your med school on USNWR)

Subtract 34 points if you ever received a Gold Humanism award or anything remotely like that.

The pentainternapede has to work patients up while GI fellows get to "super" scope them. Worst of all, the cafeteria food there is pretty bad so it really sucks to be the 5th digester of yesterdays sloppy joes.

 

[BertMacklinFBI]

Sluggs has clearly been drinkin' again.

UNC, Wisconsin and Pitt are all quite competitive. And LOL at questioning whether Iowa belongs in the Midwest category but not blinking at putting Pitt in it.

I have no idea about the South but in the Midwest I'd add: SLU, UCinn, OSU, IU, Loyola, KU, UNMC, MCW, CCF (no...seriously...it's not competitive), Case (if you can parse which of the programs is real Case).... Hell...that's 10 programs right there.

I'd second KU, IU, Iowa, Nebraska.
I know a handful of interns that both came from IU for school and went there for medicine, who speak highly of it (particularly ID and pulm). Iowa's PD is a really nice guy, and they have this masters of medical education you can get while in residency. Nebraska and KU both have solid training (and apparently KC is the place to be right now with the Royals in the World Series).

 

[kari123]

Sluggs has clearly been drinkin' again.

UNC, Wisconsin and Pitt are all quite competitive. And LOL at questioning whether Iowa belongs in the Midwest category but not blinking at putting Pitt in it.

I have no idea about the South but in the Midwest I'd add: SLU, UCinn, OSU, IU, Loyola, KU, UNMC, MCW, CCF (no...seriously...it's not competitive), Case (if you can parse which of the programs is real Case).... Hell...that's 10 programs right there.

Is CCF really not that competitive? I thought it was one of the top 15-20 or so IM programs with great fellowship matches. How competitive is it compared to real Case?

 

[visari]

Is CCF really not that competitive? I thought it was one of the top 15-20 or so IM programs with great fellowship matches. How competitive is it compared to real Case?

And it starts again

 

[gutonc]

Is CCF really not that competitive? I thought it was one of the top 15-20 or so IM programs with great fellowship matches. How competitive is it compared to real Case?

Did you base that on actual data or just what you heard from your Grandma? It's a phenomenal place to do cards (assuming you want to also do an advanced fellowship or 3) but a solid mid-tier IM program at best. It's not a bad place, but it's not the best program in OH by a mile and a half.

It's no more or less competitive than real Case, I mean, they're both in Cleveland, how competitive could they be? I kid...kind of. And neither of them are the best IM program in OH.

 

[kari123]

Did you base that on actual data or just what you heard from your Grandma? It's a phenomenal place to do cards (assuming you want to also do an advanced fellowship or 3) but a solid mid-tier IM program at best. It's not a bad place, but it's not the best program in OH by a mile and a half.

It's no more or less competitive than real Case, I mean, they're both in Cleveland, how competitive could they be? I kid...kind of. And neither of them are the best IM program in OH.

I see. Thanks. Are you saying that Ohio State is the most competitive in OH?

I guess my sources were pretty far off the mark... Can I ask what's a good source to get this info without spending money on US News report? My PD is of no help because all he does is try to recruit (and I don't want to stay), and my letter writers haven't been in the residency admissions business for decades. I've been trying to get this info from SDN and doximity and even then there's a lot of bias and misinformation... I'd appreciate any help!

 

[johndoe3344]

I see. Thanks. Are you saying that Ohio State is the most competitive in OH?

I guess my sources were pretty far off the mark... Can I ask what's a good source to get this info without spending money on US News report? My PD is of no help because all he does is try to recruit (and I don't want to stay), and my letter writers haven't been in the residency admissions business for decades. I've been trying to get this info from SDN and doximity and even then there's a lot of bias and misinformation... I'd appreciate any help!

I don't have any major issue with Doximity rankings for the top 20 or so programs, nationally, without any filters (give or take a few programs which are way too high like Mayo or CCF)

There have also been a million ranking threads on SDN that I'm sure you don't have to look too hard to find... like: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/preempting-the-inevitible-rankings-thread.751250

 

[sluggs]

Sluggs has clearly been drinkin' again.

UNC, Wisconsin and Pitt are all quite competitive. And LOL at questioning whether Iowa belongs in the Midwest category but not blinking at putting Pitt in it.

I have no idea about the South but in the Midwest I'd add: SLU, UCinn, OSU, IU, Loyola, KU, UNMC, MCW, CCF (no...seriously...it's not competitive), Case (if you can parse which of the programs is real Case).... Hell...that's 10 programs right there.

I had interviews at Pitt, UNC and Wisconsin; and I was not competitive!