Less Than Stellar Academic Record...

[AgainstAllOdds]

I'm a 26yo nurse, working on pre-reqs and planning to apply for med school after I get my bachelor's in nursing. Earlier in my college career I had some false starts (plural), I was living out of my car blah blah blah - there are Ws and there are Fs. I have since retaken all the Fs and gotten good grades. I got As in almost all my nursing pre-reqs (Biology, A & P, Microbio...), as well as my nursing courses. This year and next I'm working on med school pre-reqs which didn't happen during my nursing degree - Physics, Organic Chem. I'm also planning to take some higher level math courses since that was where I fell short on my transcript previously.

My first nursing degree I graduated with honors. I intend to do the same for my second in an accelerated bachelor's program. This fall I will start volunteering with a local free clinic as an RN, and by the time I apply for med school I will have 2.5 years of full-time nursing experience under my belt, and all the skills that go with it. MD has always been my dream - I went into nursing to provide stability for my family while I pursue that goal.

Do I have a chance in hell with Fs and Ws on my transcript? Will a stellar academic record since then make up for it? What else can I do to improve my chances? I'm really not attached to any particular school (good thing, eh?), as long as I come out an MD.

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[Law2Doc]

I'm really not attached to any particular school (good thing, eh?), as long as I come out an MD.

While I'm a believer that there is no hole you cannot dig out of, given enough time, the answer is going to depend a bit on what your GPA is. Generally if the GPA is really low, you want a more lengthy track record of A's from here on out. I'm not sure how much emphasis I would put on higher level math - most schools require a year of math and that's it. How long a track record depends on how much damage you did. Despite your last sentence, you actually may want to consider DO if you haven't already -- they reportedly count retakes more favorably than MD (the F's on your transcript would be replaced by the new grade rather than averaged - lets you pull up the GPA more rapidly).

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

As it stands now, my GPA is a 3.46. I have another year of pre-reqs followed by a year of the accelerated BSN. That GPA is calculated in my transcript, I'm unsure if they calculated the Fs in or not, or if they were replaced when I did the retakes. Hmm...

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

Also, I want to thank you for encouraging me to look into the DO vs MD. I've always been hyper-focused on MD, however now that I am thinking about it a DO may make more sense for me. As a nurse I am already accustomed to a holistic view of patient care, and this may be a better option as such.

 

[njbmd]

Do I have a chance in hell with Fs and Ws on my transcript? Will a stellar academic record since then make up for it? What else can I do to improve my chances? I'm really not attached to any particular school (good thing, eh?), as long as I come out an MD.

Failing grades (Ws do not need to be "overcome) can be corrected slowly and methodically. They will always be there, as you well know, but recent, excellent (no grade less than B+) coursework can lessen their effect both numerically and temporally.

Once you are done with your nursing, you need to put some upper division science coursework on your transcript. Be sure that you coursework is at the undergraduate level as graduate coursework does not help your undergraduate GPA and is considered differently.

Take your time as depending on how many credit hours of F you have to overcome, you are going to need essentially 2.5 times as many credit hours of A work. For example, if you had taking only 3-hour course and achieved an F, re-taking that 3-hour course with an A will bring your overall GPA to C(i.e. 6 hours with an overall GPA of 2.0). Taking another 3-hour course and achieving an A will bring your overall GPA to 3.0 i.e 9 hours with an overall GPA of 3.0. Put together a spreadsheet and calculate your GPA based on overall credit hours from all programs and grades. In short, "GPA damage-control" takes some time and dedication. You also need to know exactly how much you need to take to overcome your F(s).

If you elect to apply to osteopathic schools, the osteopathic application will substitute your new grade for the older (F) grade. BE sure to look into this opportunity if the practice of medicine is your goal.

I have an acquaintance who was dismissed from his first bachelor's program with a GPA of less than 1.0. He matured a bit, came back, obtained a second bachelor's (needed that many hours) with honors and entered medical school. No GPA hole is too deep to climb out of with patience and excellent work. Good luck.

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[Quix]

Did you take the general education versions of Bio and Chem? The nurses that I've talked to have took courses geared for nursing ed, and they weren't exposed to all of the material we received in the general curriculum. I ask only because this might affect you on the MCAT.

 

[Meatwad]

Failing grades (Ws do not need to be "overcome) can be corrected slowly and methodically. They will always be there, as you well know, but recent, excellent (no grade less than B+) coursework can lessen their effect both numerically and temporally.

Once you are done with your nursing, you need to put some upper division science coursework on your transcript. Be sure that you coursework is at the undergraduate level as graduate coursework does not help your undergraduate GPA and is considered differently.

Take your time as depending on how many credit hours of F you have to overcome, you are going to need essentially 2.5 times as many credit hours of A work. For example, if you had taking only 3-hour course and achieved an F, re-taking that 3-hour course with an A will bring your overall GPA to C(i.e. 6 hours with an overall GPA of 2.0). Taking another 3-hour course and achieving an A will bring your overall GPA to 3.0 i.e 9 hours with an overall GPA of 3.0. Put together a spreadsheet and calculate your GPA based on overall credit hours from all programs and grades. In short, "GPA damage-control" takes some time and dedication. You also need to know exactly how much you need to take to overcome your F(s).

If you elect to apply to osteopathic schools, the osteopathic application will substitute your new grade for the older (F) grade. BE sure to look into this opportunity if the practice of medicine is your goal.

I have an acquaintance who was dismissed from his first bachelor's program with a GPA of less than 1.0. He matured a bit, came back, obtained a second bachelor's (needed that many hours) with honors and entered medical school. No GPA hole is too deep to climb out of with patience and excellent work. Good luck.

What school let's you graduate with less than a 2.0 average?

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

Did you take the general education versions of Bio and Chem? The nurses that I've talked to have took courses geared for nursing ed, and they weren't exposed to all of the material we received in the general curriculum. I ask only because this might affect you on the MCAT.

I actually didn't take the (easier) courses recommended for nursing students. I took the bio major versions, in the interest of continuing my education later on.

 

[Rock Solid]

Do I have a chance in hell with Fs and Ws on my transcript? Will a stellar academic record since then make up for it? What else can I do to improve my chances? I'm really not attached to any particular school (good thing, eh?), as long as I come out an MD.[/QUOTE]

I unlike many people in SDN believe that there are always possibilities...and you will never know until you apply and see. For us to tell you whether you have a chance is just plain...wrong. We have no idea. Most of the people on this SDN site are in their early 20's...and gunners, willing to do anything and everything to get ahead of you and me in the process. What do they really know about the "real world" and the challenges that people face? Many of their problems consist of where they and their friends are going out tonight and whether they made a 38S or a 40N on the MCAT.
My advice is finish strong...bust your ass...take the MCAT...and apply. It is obvious that you have quite a lot of history and have overcome a lot of obstacles as well....play it up in your application essay. I would find it very interesting to see an application such as yours where someone has recovered from poor school performance, having to live out of their car etc...to a professional who has gone back to school, about to achieve her BSN and is ready for medical school. I would like that much more than the generic applications that 20 year olds send, all saying the same damn thing. I have to tell ya, I dont know about you but at 20, I didnt know what the hell I wanted to do with my life. Having been a PA for 3 years now as well as an older applicant, I can tell you that I sure as hell wasnt ready to take care of people in my early 20's...no matter what I thought I was ready for at that time in my life.
I think you will bring much diversity and encouragement to the incoming classes...and be leary of some of the answers you receive here...if you want to know the real answers...apply and see what happens..and always keep the confidence. By the way, my wife is a graduate of TCOM, graduated #6 in her class...aced the USMLE's and is in her 2nd year of OB/Gyn Allopathic residency at JPS in Fort Worth. Do you know ho many people ask her whether she is an MD or a DO? None is correct! All this stigma about medical school is bull****...I am sorry to say. Most medical schools teach the same first and second years. The great equalizer are the boards. do well on those and you will be fine. Where you become good or bad as a physician is in residency. My advice...go to medical school where you can get in!

 

[georgia_md]

Generally speaking, the 3.0 GPA is a cutoff for most medical schools. However, some applicants are accepted every year who have a lower GPA, so this value is by no means absolute. Again, it all depends on the strength of the overall application…and the MCAT score.

For example, for the 2005 school year, 155 applicants were accepted to allopathic medical schools (out of 17,978 total accepted that year) with a GPA that was lower than a 2.75. So, it is possible to gain admission with a low GPA, but you can see from these numbers that this is very rare. Also, these individuals most likely had stellar applications otherwise (or a very rich uncle whose name you can find on the seven-digit donation plaques in the hallway of the medical school).

For most of the allopathic (MD) medical schools, an average GPA of 3.0 is the minimum they will consider for extending interview invitations, regardless of what the rest of your application looks like, but there are a few exceptions.

 

[georgia_md]

What school let's you graduate with less than a 2.0 average?

lol

 

[Meatwad]

lol

Haha, no, really, I'm just surprised. I thought most schools, like my own, require a C or higher in all classes for the major and a cumulative GPA of 2.0 or higher. Anything else is probabtion, and obviously you can't graduate if you're on probation!

 

[georgia_md]

Haha, no, really, I'm just surprised. I thought most schools, like my own, require a C or higher in all classes for the major and a cumulative GPA of 2.0 or higher. Anything else is probabtion, and obviously you can't graduate if you're on probation!

I know. That's why I laughed

 

[Meatwad]

I know. That's why I laughed

Gotcha.

Now I feel like a d-bag for responding.

This is awkward.