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Licensure in California after Med School in Philippines

Discussion in 'China and Eastern Asia' started by DrTennis, 12.07.05.

  1. DrTennis

    DrTennis MS-IV

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    Last week, I communicated via e-mail with the California Medical Board regarding the licensure of graduates from Philippine Medical Schools. I was advised that if I attend a Philippine medical school, I should complete a 5th year of rotations at places affiliated with the medical school I choose to attend. This is because the amount of clinical hours provided during rotations in Philippine med schools will not be enough to give me the required amount of clinical rotation hours needed for California licensure. I understand that most medical schools in the Philippines are 4 years long with the exception of UP-PGH and St.Lukes. I did e-mail the California medical board again to see if they could clarify what they meant by taking a 5th year. Has anyone heard of or had experiences with needing to complete an [extra] 5th year of medical school rotations for purposes of meeting California licensure?
  2. tantrum

    tantrum Senior Member

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    All schools in the Philippines require their local grads to have a 5th year internship with their affiliated hospitals before you can take the local (Philippine Boards) exam. In 2 schools like St. Luke's and UP the 5th year is incorporated in their curriculum so you need the 5th year clinical rotating intership just to graduate from these 2 schools. Foreigners are not required to take the 5th year internship as they are not required to take the local board. But most schools have affiliate hospitals for 5th year internship. The reason for this California requirement is that in most Philippines schools, the first 3 years is usually non-clinical and you won't have the required clinical hours (for California) unless you have taken the 5th year internship (or senior clerkship as some schools call it).
  3. DrTennis

    DrTennis MS-IV

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    tantrum, thanks for the information. Would you know off hand if some Philippine schools have US Hospital affiliations for their grads to do their 5th year in?
  4. tantrum

    tantrum Senior Member

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    It's a different and strange system. The 5th year was designed to be taken in the Philippines, not the USA. In most schools, you have already graduated after your 4th year, so hospitals in the US will not take you as that would be a postgraduate medical education (internship and residency). Most schools there have US hospital affiliations (especially Fatima) but you can only do it in the 4th year (clerkship).
  5. DrTennis

    DrTennis MS-IV

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    This all makes sense to me now. Thanks again for answering my questions.
  6. surething

    surething Junior Member

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    does this mean that if you do not do a 5th year then you cannot practice in california? is that what you are saying? what about the fact that fatima is approved by the cali med board does that change anything?
  7. DrTennis

    DrTennis MS-IV

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    This is an interesting question. Fatima is approved by the California Medical Board as well as most of the older med school in the Philippines. However, the best thing to do is contact the medical board in the State you wish to practice in just to make sure there are no conidtions that applicants must meet to enjoy this approval. When I e-mailed the California Medical Board regarding the 5th year, they stated that a med student in the Philippines should plan on doing a fifth year in a hospital directly affliated with their medical school. If a 5th year is not completed, these students will be deficient 20 weeks of clinical rotations and must remedy their deficiencies later. I am not sure what they specifically mean by remedy their deficiencies later. I wonder how one can actually go back and remedy the 20 week deficiency? I will contact the California Medical Board again to see if there are any specific examples of these types of licensing applicants lacking the requisite hours. Maybe tantrum can share some info on this.
  8. tantrum

    tantrum Senior Member

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    Most schools in the Philippines (unless they are less than 5 years old) are recognized in California, even Fatima. The problem is Caifornia is very strict (the strictest in fact) with the number of hours they require for clinical rotations. Doing just the 4th year clinicals in Fatima will not give you enough hours or weeks for their requirements for some departments. Also, California is one of the most competitive place for getting residency (post-graduate medical education). Most foreign grads I know finished their residency in another state, then move back to California once they finished their residency or after becoming Board-certified.
  9. surething

    surething Junior Member

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    I guesswhat I am asking was about the ability to practice there. I could care less about doing a residency there. So you can practice there correct?
  10. DrTennis

    DrTennis MS-IV

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    tantrum, thanks for all of the information. I can see how there can be some gray areas. To better clarify, I will ask this:

    If one finishes the standard 4 years of medical school in a California approved Philippine med school, and then does a residency outside of California and later comes back to California for licensure, can he/she use the clinical hours incurred during residency outside of California to remedy the clinical rotation hours deficiency incurred from not completing a 5th year in a Philippine hospital affiliated with one's medical school?

    Sort of a long question, but I had no better way of asking it. I will also e-mail this question to the California Medical Board this Monday.
  11. Spartan Doc

    Spartan Doc Jedi Knight

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    Dr Tennis,
    please let me know when you find out. I graduated from FEU, but did not do my PGI. I am currently applying for california licensure after doing residency out of state. From what I have heard from other currently practicing Filipino physicians... some have been deficient 2-4 weeks of psych after completing an internal medicine residency. Much of the rotations you do in internal med can count toward the "deficient weeks" but also during residency, plan on doing some surgical rotations such as ER, ENT, ortho for a couple of weeks as well.
    I will let people know if the california board requires me to do.
  12. tantrum

    tantrum Senior Member

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    Like SpartanDoc said, it's possible to get licensed in California but you might still have to do extra rotations during residency. I'm also interested in the Board response.
  13. DrTennis

    DrTennis MS-IV

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    I got a response from Ms. Pat Park, the foreign medical school liason for the Medical Board of California. Her response answers the question very well regarding skipping the 5th intership year. I would like to paste her word for word response here, but I will first ask her if she is ok with me posting her reply on this message board.
  14. DrTennis

    DrTennis MS-IV

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    Hello everyone, here is the response from Ms Pat Park, the liason for foreign medical schools as the California Medical Board. She may be contacted at (916-263-2367) or through her e-mail address at ppark@medbd.ca.gov if anyone has any questions regarding California medical licensure laws. Here is her response below to the question regarding skipping the 5th internship year:

    "California law does allow for people to remedy their medical school training deficiencies through "excess" residency training completed in the U.S. For example, if someone skips the Philippine internship year entirely, he may end up deficient in over 40 weeks of elective clinical training. Staff tells me that the deficiency is usually in the electives but there have been cases of people being deficient in a core area. If someone is deficient 40 weeks of elective training, California law will allow us to apply 40 weeks of the residency training he completed in another state to remedy his deficiency. If the deficiency includes a core area (for example, 6 weeks of pediatrics), the residency training must cover 6 weeks of pediatrics. NOTE: The training used to remedy deficiencies must be IN ADDITION TO training used to satisfy the two-year residency training requirement. "Double counting" is prohibited. That is, this person would need to complete two years and 40 weeks of ACGME-accredited residency training to satisfy the remedial training requirements and the routine residency training required for licensure.
    Let me know if you have other questions. Pat Park, Foreign Schools Liaison, Medical Board of California"
  15. ued2003

    ued2003 New Member

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    I knew about the California medical board requirement when I was still a student in UERM. Every state has certain requirements. Go to the california state medical board website and click on applications for physicians. It clearly states what you have to document under "clinical clerkships." For those Fil-Ams that did clerkships in the U.S. during 4th year you may run into a problem if the rotation in the hospital where you rotated does not have an ACGME accredited residency for that specialty. I knew about these strict requirements thats why I did all 52 clerkship weeks in the Philippines at UERM. I recommended that my classmates from california just stay for the needed 20 weeks of PGI and then return home. As long as you have 72 "undergraduate weeks" then you should be ok.
  16. LocutusofBorg

    LocutusofBorg Asklepian Member

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    Resurrecting an old topic... So I have three questions:
    1) If I attend UERM or another school that allows US rotations, and I complete these rotations at a hospital that has an ACGME accredited residency for that specialty, I should be OK right? I want those US recommendation letters, and US clinical experience.

    2) What does it mean, "just stay for the needed 20 weeks of PGI." Will med schools in the Philippines allow it? Is it possible to do 20 weeks of PGI when I come back from PI?

    3) Are there many other states known to be this stringent on clinical hours for licensure? Will I have any problems in NY, TX, etc...?
  17. gil t azel

    gil t azel Junior Member

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    Hello I have questions about obtaining residency in California.
    How many of clerkship weeks will one receive after the entire 4 years of Medical School in the Philippines?

    How many weeks in each clinical course (surgery, medicine, family medicine, pediatrics, obstetrics and gynecology, and psychiatry) will one receive?
    How many weeks will one receive after 1 year of PGY internship in the Philippines?

    How many weeks in each clinical course? How many weeks in each clinical course (surgery, medicine, family medicine, pediatrics, obstetrics and gynecology, and psychiatry) will one receive?
    Is the PGY internship instructed in English?
    Is there information on the internet about doing PGY in the Philippines?
    Thanks
  18. chocopinipig

    chocopinipig Member

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    Will provide a few data on clerkship on the phils.

    Howmany of clerkship weeks will one receive after the entire 4 years of Medical School in the Philippines?
    - that will be equivalent to one (1) school year from june to april (you do the math :)

    How many weeks in each clinical course (surgery, medicine, family medicine, pediatrics, obstetrics and gynecology, and psychiatry) will one receive?
    - standard for most PI schools would give a total of 8 weeks(2months) for major rotations (medicine, surgery, pediatrics and OB) for the rest (ENT, psych, neuro, radio etc..) this would depend on the institution/school you are in and ranges from 2 weeks to a month per rotation.

    How many weeks will one receive after 1 year of PGY internship in the Philippines?
    -again to my knowledge, 1 computed school year from june to april.

    How many weeks in each clinical course? How many weeks in each clinical course (surgery, medicine, family medicine, pediatrics, obstetrics and gynecology, and psychiatry) will one receive?
    -standard 2 months for major rotation. Some internship programs are flexible and will allow you to "go back" for additional hours as electives. So if you lack 2 weeks rotation on a particular area, you can apply to that rotation as electives and get your additional hours.

    the PGY internship instructed in English?
    -yes for the most part. But you will be dealing with local patients. They understand english but don't speak it very well. You will have to learn how to speak the local language. If you took medschool in the country and plan to do clerkship and intership here, you will have 3 years of medschool to learn a few phrases and sentences in tagalog.

    There information on the internet about doing PGY in the Philippines?
    -unfortunately...havn't seen one yet.
  19. gil t azel

    gil t azel Junior Member

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    Thanks chocopinipig. Other questions. Is one Obligated to stay the entire year for the PGY or can one just take only 20 weeks worth of training?
  20. marblesmd

    marblesmd Junior Member

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    Clerkship or 4th yr starts from April 1 to March 31 of the following year. Some schools may start around 2 weeks earlier (like PLM) or later than April 1st.

    Senior/Postgraduate Internship or 5th yr (for St.Luke's & PGH) starts from May 1 to April 30 of the following year. Application for internship thru APMC is held during August, I think.
  21. marblesmd

    marblesmd Junior Member

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    For those who want to have a Phil license, you need to complete the 1 yr internship.
    You can inquire at the Chief of Clinics or the head of the clerkship/internship committee in your school or get the contact numbers for the APMC (Association of Philippine Medical Colleges). You'd have to make arrangements for the 20 week period and what departments you want to rotate in to complete your requirements. Then you'd need to get a certification from the hospital regarding your completed rotations.
  22. RheaA

    RheaA

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    Is this information true to this day? Very good information to note. Thank you for all who had contributed to this thread!
  23. pr0j3ktm

    pr0j3ktm

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    bump.

    is this information still true? i know lady bug hasnt mentioned anything about a 5th year..and she graduated this past year i think.
  24. Guam

    Guam

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    Hey guys,
    I'm in my senior year of my undergrads and I'm thinking about going to medical school in the Philippines. I was wondering if anyone could tell me the whole process from beginning to end if I ultimately want to be licensed in California. From the whole application process to actually attending school to residencies, examinations I need to take as well as eventual licensing. Here are just a couple particular questions I have:

    1) are there any medical schools in the philippines US accredited?
    2) do some of the schools have any US affiliated hsspitals that I can do my residency at?
    3) I am an American citizen as well as a Filipino citizen but I attended my undergraduate courses in California am I considered an international student?
    4)I was reading up on medical schools in the Philippines and I got two sides of the story, one side said that after 2 years of attending medical school in the philippines I could transfer to a US medical school and earn a US medical degree, the other side of the story is that we HAVE to finish 4 years of medical school in the Philippines and then we have to take special exams to be certified in the US. could you please let me know if I can transfer out after two years or if I have to finish out the entire 4 years in the Philippines.
    5) what does it mean if a school is approved by the california board?
  25. tantrum

    tantrum Senior Member

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    1) No foreign school can be accredited by a US agency. That agency is called LCME (Liaison Committee for Medical Education) and only recognize US and Canadian medical schools. What you might be thinking is IMED an WHO recognized schools. Almost all schools in the Philippines are in the IMED or WHO list. This will allow you to take the USMLE (US licensure exams) and become ECFMG certified to be able to get into American residency.
    2. There are 2 schools (Fatima and UERM) with US hospital affiliations. Their purpose is for the 4th year clinical clerkship, not necessarily for residency.
    3. Even if you are a dual citizen, many med schools there will still consider you as "foreign-grad" and needs to pay a "foreign-fee or donation fee". There are few schools that may waive your foreign fee but most of them are outside Metro Manila. If you pay the one-time foreign fee (between, $6K to $10K), your only advantage in having dual citizenship is not having to renew with the Bureau of Immigration (Philippines) your visa every few months.
    4. They already discontinued the 5th pathway program where you can continue at an American university. It's almost impossible to transfer to an American school midway (even those with super high Step 1 USMLE scores).
    5. California has a list of foreign schools whose graduate can apply for license in CA. They are usually stricter with Caribbean schools (as these schools can have their 3rd and 4th year clerkships in American hospitals). Only 4 Caribbean schools (offshore schools) are on the CA list (SGU, Ross, AUC, Saba). Real foreign schools catering to their citizens like those in the Philippines are all listed there. Only the newer Philippine schools are not on the list. The youngest Philippine school on the list is St. Luke's.
  26. Guam

    Guam

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    I see. Thanks for the info! Next questions:
    1)what does one have to do after graduating with a Philippine MD in order to become licensed in California?
    A)special examinations...etc?
    2)will I be able to take the USMLE step 1 after my 2nd year and my step 3 after my 3rd year or do I have to take all three steps after graduating?
  27. tantrum

    tantrum Senior Member

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    1) There is no special examinations but you have to take the same exams as US students USMLE Step 1, Step 2 CK (Clinical Knowledge), Step 2 CS (Clinical Skills), and Step 3 (can be taken in residency).
    2) Most Philippine schools are labor and time-intensive, 8-5 lectures. No schools there really prepare you for USMLE. Your best bet are PBL schools which give you more time in the afternoon while preparing independently for USMLE.
  28. Saipan

    Saipan Junior Member

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    1) And you have to meet the requirements for a certain number of weeks of clinical rotations in the various specialties. You won't meet this requirement with just an MD from the Philippines as Filipino schools only do rotations in 4th year.
  29. GoldenAzn

    GoldenAzn Member

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    I'm asking this question so i can figure out what to do with my fiancee. She is currently graduating from a medical school. While I'm not trying to go California for her, she is considering doing Internship so i have some questions concerning what is needed to qualify for the required rotations.

    1) Do you have to do the whole year of internship to be accredited the hours that you need in additional?
    2) OR Can she just do the needed 20 more weeks of internship and be okay for even for california if need be? basically what is the minimum that she has to do?
    3) Which hospitals can she go to, does it have to be a hospital that is from the list of medical school accredited like UST or UE hospital for internship?
    4) or like Fatima which also has affilated hospital like Quezon City General Hospital, or Jose Reyes Hospital be allowed to be included? OR can she go to like Metro, or any other internship program and still count?

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