Life Decision!

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What should we do?

  • Option 1: Defer everything for a year and have a baby.

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • Option 2: Get your careers on first and have a baby in 2 yrs.

    Votes: 6 37.5%
  • Option 3: Move to the bay and do what makes you happy in spite of the loan interest.

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • You've seriously confused me and/or given me a headache

    Votes: 4 25.0%

  • Total voters
    16

numbereight

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Hi everyone. I value your opinions and would be grateful for your input with helping my wife and I decide about what we should do in a difficult situation.

My wife and I are trying to balance two careers including my graduate education, when to have our first baby, where to live, and 180K in loan debt. Our plan was derailed when her job out of school became uncertain.

The good thing is we have options. The bad thing is that there are so many variables to consider and unknowns that it's become a big brain-teaser. We've refined our choices down to three options, which I humbly present to you for your opinions :)

My wife has a great job offer in the San Francisco bay area. She has almost zero chance of getting a similarly paying job elsewhere because of the economy. However, my wife's employer recently contacted her and said "we don't know if we can take you on before Jan 2011. We'd be happy to give you 75k to go work for a nonprofit during the next year and well see you in Jan ‘11."

I am scheduled to begin a clinical psychology PhD at PGSP this September. I am pretty happy about it. I like the program. I have a relatively good fellowship and a plan to pay for it. It is not my top choice, but for all practical purposes it's the only clinical psychology PhD within 300 miles of San Francsico. I am interested in teaching at a non-research-1 college/university, doing a little research, and working in private practice.

Option 1 is my wife takes the offer to work at a nonprofit. I defer graduate school one year. We try to have a baby. The major benefit of this option is that she would have ~9 months off to raise our baby. With both our salaries we can also pay down our loans.

With Option 1, we stay where we are in spite of the fact that we can't wait to get the heck out of here. I defer school even though I'm working in a dead end job which I'm tired of and am I getting kind of old to begin a new career. (I'm 32 and she's 30.).

If we take option 1, we can have a baby and my wife will have about 9 months to take care of it with next to no work responsibilities. The nonprofit job would basically end when she pops. Assuming it takes about an average amount of time, she has about 9 months off at home raising the baby before beginning to work. I know it can take a while to make a baby :). We're just planning as best we can here. This is our major motivation for deferring a year.

With option 1 I will also reapply to PhD programs and see if any other opportunities appear. I will widen my focus a bit and apply to programs in other allied areas and other places in the country. If I get accepted somewhere outside the bay area my wife would check out the job opportunities in those areas. I have good stats and experience so getting in to another program is a possibility, especially after finishing a good thesis in my area of research interest and everything I've learned about the process over the past year. Even if we take option 2 or 3 and I begin at PGSP this Fall, I can still reapply to other PhD programs.

Option 2 is she begins working as originally planned and I begin at PGSP. We would try to have a baby 2 years later. Later when we try to have a baby, she would get the standard 4 months of maternity leave. With this option, I get to get on with my education which I would really like to do. We would get to move out to the bay area, a much nicer place then we live now. Our finances would be in a slightly better position than in option 1 (we can pay down the loans more). However, 9 months off raising your child is much better than 4 months.

Option 3: She takes the "nonprofit" offer and I begin school this fall. Our take home would be about 58K. We could live on that and perhaps make the minimum payments on the loans. The interest on 180K of loans would accrue at a pretty alarming rate. We would be the happiest I think, but it would cost us the most.

Le sigh. I hope that's somewhat clear. We are leaning towards option 1 as you may have guessed. Your vote or advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks for your help.

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Is your wife a corporate lawyer by any chance?
 
Sorry if I'm not understanding something, but with option #3, the 58k take-home is only for one year, right? In Jan 2011, she starts making big bucks AND she's had 9 months to raise the baby, no?
 
hi everyone. thanks for your help.

futureapp: i am not sure about that one. something i will definitely have to ask about and consider.

thrak: she is/will be a lawyer. she just graduated law school so she doesn't have a specialty yet. i think that she is interested in corporate law but it is not her first choice.

shivo: yes, that would be the hopeful scenario. however, there are no guarantees for jan 2011. the law industry is very bad off right now as you may know. also, if we go option 3, we pay about 35K more in interest over the life of the loans. not a deal breaker in of itself, but something important.

cheers!

p.s. i wonder if the popularity of option 2 is due to people in their early 20's answering. I say this because 10 years ago, option 2 would have been a "slam dunk" choice. i also wonder how much respondents are considering the baby's needs and mother's needs in the parenting relationship.

p.p.s. im sorry for the headaches.
 
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here would be some of my concerns if i were in your position:

1) money- you mention 58k as just barely enough for 2 people. graduate school is not going to improve your income. and an infant is supposed to suck up something like 40% of one's income. and SF? you are going to be well below the poverty line. (don't worry, you'll be in good company with most other grad students). but, is this lifestyle going to work for your wife as well? most atty's things require some damn nice clothing. how is this work need going to met?

then there is the cost of pgsp. think a lot more student loans.

2) time- for the most part, you are going to be super busy in grad school. i think a 65 hours work week is not an overestimation your 2nd year. if you are a gunner, there is the high probability of a lot more hours. it will be exceedingly difficult to fit in the needs of an infant. and then your wife is an atty. so there is going to be periods of time wherein she is largely unavailable. do you guys have a child care plan in this scenario? what if you do no thave the moeny to afford child care?

3) geographical location- as always, internship becomes a huge concern. there are only 17 sites in the bay area. what is the plan if you do not match in the area? have you actually sat down and made such a contingency plan?

not trying to talk you out of anything. just saw grad school result in a divorce because of similar issues.
 
I am 22 years old and chose option 1. If having a baby is REALLY important (more important than starting graduate school) you should have the baby when she has 9 months ML. My sister is about 7 months pregnant and it took them over a year to conceive (something to keep in mind). Additionally, she is only getting the 4 months maternity leave (not even paid) She is absolutely devastated by this. 9 months of leave to spend with your newborn would b e ABSOlUTELY amazing. When she starts her big job as a lawyer, it's doubtful that she will ever have any opportunity like this, especially if she's going into corporate law. Additionally, you most likely will have other children and will eventually have to do the 4 months maternity leave. Why not get the time you clearly want with the first one?

hi everyone. thanks for your help.

futureapp: i am not sure about that one. something i will definitely have to ask about and consider.

thrak: she is/will be a lawyer. she just graduated law school so she doesn't have a specialty yet. i think that she is interested in corporate law but it is not her first choice.

shivo: yes, that would be the hopeful scenario. however, there are no guarantees for jan 2011. the law industry is very bad off right now as you may know. also, if we go option 3, we pay about 35K more in interest over the life of the loans. not a deal breaker in of itself, but something important.

cheers!

p.s. i wonder if the popularity of option 2 is due to people in their early 20's answering. I say this because 10 years ago, option 2 would have been a "slam dunk" choice. i also wonder how much respondents are considering the baby's needs and mother's needs in the parenting relationship.

p.p.s. im sorry for the headaches.
 
Hi. I'm not really sure how I'd feel in you shoes, but due to some similar life experiences, I felt I should write.

I'm in my 40s and chose option #2, but I'm not sure if my choice would be right for you and your wife. I had two children while practicing as an attorney, and took 4 mos ML with each. I had my first at 31, second at 34, and then a third baby in between my law career and beginning my Psyd program (late 30s). For me, it was not so much the short maternity leave -- it was trying to juggle the demands of kids as they got older. Now my kids are all older, and it's still tough. Someone always needs to go somewhere or needs something that only mom or dad can provide. It's great, but it's exhausting.

I guess I'm not sure there's really an optimal time to have children -- we just sort of jumped in and hoped for the best. When something ended up not working, we changed it. This happened when I decided I needed more time with my son and negotiated to be able to telecommute from home one day/week. It happened a few years later, when I decided to quit and stay home for a while after having baby #3. I just needed the break, and by that time law had seriously worn me out and I was contemplating a career change to psychology. It also happenedr when I decided to go back to grad school and my husband moved his business home so he could be there during the day for the kids. (Wow! It's been pretty nuts around here for years, come to think of it. Rather like a 3 Ring Circus!):D

We all have our opinions, but at the end of the day it's your life and not ours. We cannot really know how you'll prioritize career, finances and family. The 9 mo ML sounds tempting, but as others have said, timing a pregnancy does not always work as planned. Living in SF will be expensive, but if your wife's longer-term prospects at her firm look solid, it could be great. Her income could help defray the costs of grad school, and you might have felxibility in later years of the program to be home with the baby (e.g., working on dissertation).

I think the best advice I can give is for you and your wife to sit down and have a serious heart to heart over a good meal and a glass of wine. Hash out all of your options and feelings, then come up with the best plan you can that will allow each of you to follow your heart's desire (to the extent this is possible, of course). The best thing I've been able to do is communicate openly with my partner about our life together. Not that it's been easy all of the time, but it's worked out.
 
Wow, you're right... there are so many variables to consider.

I forgot to notice whether you were attending a PhD or PsyD program. It would be ideal if you would attend a PhD program with tuition remission and a stipend to help you pay for basic things. Taking out even more money to go to school while you have the opportunity to do it for free with a 180k loan seems like an unwise choice.

The fact that you want to have a baby should be reason to look into a program that covers your costs because any additional loans will only make raising a child more difficult because they are CRAZY EXPENSIVE.

My idea would be to defer for a year, look into a program that would PAY YOU to go to school while your wife gets the 75k working in San Francisco. You can have your baby in the mean time and try to payoff as much of the loan as much as possible.
 
PS... this is a GREAT time to go to school... Do it while jobs are not as easily available and salaries far from competitive. Plus as a grad student you will be very busy but also have a more flexible schedule that will help you with raising your child.

BEST OF LUCK!
 
I would recommend you defer for a year and reapply to some funded programs if that is an option. I am a second career person, early 30s and have gotten in several years in a row, just couldn't find a fit of program.

I am also an attorney. I am in another office of a SF-based law firm, and they are giving all of the first years this play money to not come, but it's not a done deal. If things don't get better fast, they will not admit some of these first years. In my firm, which is probably in the top 20 on the AM Law 100, so VERY big. They have laid off women who are on maternity leave and who are pregnant - it's insane.They offer them a good severance and no choice. It's also near impossible to sustain the big firm lifestyle as a new mother. I am just speaking from experience. Big law firms are brutal. The feed you a lot of hype as a recruit, but it's just the truth. It's just not a life for a normal person to live.

If there is anyway that you could live somewhere else with a cheaper cost of living and go to school, it would be ideal.

I am leaving law but worked for several years to save up the money to do this. I can tell you more about our financial situation if you PM me.

I also just had a baby. It's expensive and time consuming. You and your wife should not put it off too long, but you should really understand the costs. Who will take care of the baby? Day care in the Bay area is expensive? Your wife might have a different reaction. I swore I would never want to stay at home with a child, and now I wish more than anything I could. I would get your grad school situation and your wife's work situation figured out first. Then, I think grad school works for having a baby, but you need to get childcare figured out. I have savings to get us through the long haul, a good stipend, chose a program in very inexpensive place and this was one of my criteria, and my husband works at home and has affordable health care.

Again, is there anyway you can leave the Bay area. It's just too expensive for this to work well. I would take the $75k reapply and at least figure out your next steps before you get pregnant. I would advise your wife to take a smaller firm or government job and be in a good situation. Big law firms do not offer a sustainable lifestyle!

If you are worried about fertility issues, go see a reproductive endicronoligist now and get both of you tested to see how everything looks. Most of my friends who are lawyers at large law firms have trouble conceiving - usually unexplained, usually early 30's and I think it's stress.

PM me with any questions.
 
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