Literature/humanities in medical school

[wblack]

Do you think that having mandatory or elective literature/humanities courses in medical school is a good idea (or even clubs)? An established writer who teaches literature at a local university states that more and more med schools are incorporating literature in their education to give students a break from studying and give insight into patients life. For instance, if a patient suffering from cancer writes a book, we will get a deeper understanding of what a patient goes through and that will ultimately make better doctors. Do you agree with this?

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[calvnandhobbs68]

I'm gonna steal this from VisionaryTics about the pre-med posts in allopathic

Come back after you've been in med school for a month and tell me what you think about it then. Elective is fine but mandatory no way.

 

[Acoustic]

It wouldn't be a "break from studying", it'd be extra studying. You can't cut out parts of medicine to make way for novels. You'd cut out parts of living a normal life for that.

 

[JP2740]

What the ****? Sounds like an extremely stupid idea.

 

[VivaLaVida]

I go to a school (Iowa) with an impressive Humanities component as a whole (the famous Iowa Writer's Workshop) and the medical school tries to incorporate that into our curriculum, but not in mandatory ways. Off the top of my head this is how it's involved: Humanities distinction track, humanities elective courses (P/F), a program where we all could pick up a free novel and write a twitter-length reflection on it to be entered to win in some contest, a publication that showcases student writing (poetry, short story, etc.), a number of writing contests, etc. It's all voluntary, but a nice component for those who loved doing those things as hobbies or as majors, etc. before medical school and would like to continue.

As a mandatory component, there is no time. You can also feel connected to a patient's "story" by having them come speak to your class, as my school does. Most schools have other means of encouraging students to understand the social or emotional aspect of disease that don't involve lengthy novels.

 

[Valadi]

Fourthed.

We're not elementary schoolers. I don't want to read stories and prepare book reports. Too much time is already spent learning about patient-centered this and that. There's some utility in having a little, but there is a boatload of medical information to learn that is more pressing.

Clubs are a different story and people can do whatever they want with their own time. I read nonmedical literature all the time, but the last thing I want to read about is more medicine.

 

[projectlogic]

Do not want.

 

[QuizzicalApe]

In college, I deviated from my (admittedly enjoyable) science major to take a lot of philosophy and a few lit classes out of pure interest and enjoyment. I am not a person averse to the humanities. That being established: don't waste my time with useless BS in med school just because some admin somewhere has a vague hunch it might have a positive clinical impact on some student maybe one day.

If the want more liberal arts folks, handle that at admission. Once people are past that hurdle, stop giving me busy work to ignore to the fullest allowable extent.

 

[realmeaning]

I go to a school (Iowa) with an impressive Humanities component as a whole (the famous Iowa Writer's Workshop) and the medical school tries to incorporate that into our curriculum, but not in mandatory ways. Off the top of my head this is how it's involved: Humanities distinction track, humanities elective courses (P/F), a program where we all could pick up a free novel and write a twitter-length reflection on it to be entered to win in some contest, a publication that showcases student writing (poetry, short story, etc.), a number of writing contests, etc. It's all voluntary, but a nice component for those who loved doing those things as hobbies or as majors, etc. before medical school and would like to continue.

As a mandatory component, there is no time. You can also feel connected to a patient's "story" by having them come speak to your class, as my school does. Most schools have other means of encouraging students to understand the social or emotional aspect of disease that don't involve lengthy novels.

That is so cool.

Mandatory-- perhaps not. Ideally, that's what undergrad was for-- getting a well-rounded education in the true spirit of liberal arts. Unfortunately, I know far too many narrow-minded pre-meds who only stuck to science classes at the expense of broadening horizons in the sociopolitical backdrop of the French Revolution or the poetry of Pound (for example). This was incredibly sad because my university had top ranked history and literature departments, amongst other things. Anyway, I imagine these same people would shun a liberal arts/humanities component in med school as well, whether it was mandatory or elective. I, however, would welcome elective opportunities-- whether I'd have enough/time energy to take advantage is another matter, but the offer is greatly appreciated.

 

[VivaLaVida]

I wanted to add that in today's "internet society" we don't NEED published literature to hear a patient's story anymore. Pick a medical condition you learned about and I bet someone has a blog about it.

 

[FunnyCurrent]

God I hope you never become an administrator.

WTF? As if we're just rolling in free time. What a dumb idea. I don't need more work disguised as a "break from studying" particularly when it does not add to my clinical knowledge. I do not even have enough time to study things as exhaustively as I did as an undergrad. I (as well as probably everyone else) ends up having to change their study system so that they can keep up with the material. For me this meant not studying the way I like (ie reading, taking notes, reorganization, etc). In terms of raw memory/retention I probably retain a little less the way I study now but I have to study this way or I would get behind (or not have a life).

I need more effin time for the s*** I care about professionally so I can stop encroaching on the time I need for the **** I care about personally. Anything beyond what I care about professionally and personally is b******* I can't be bothered with.

 

[Wheatley]

Do you think that having mandatory or elective literature/humanities courses in medical school is a good idea (or even clubs)? An established writer who teaches literature at a local university states that more and more med schools are incorporating literature in their education to give students a break from studying and give insight into patients life. For instance, if a patient suffering from cancer writes a book, we will get a deeper understanding of what a patient goes through and that will ultimately make better doctors. Do you agree with this?

In the history of bad ideas this one ranks VERY VERY BAD.

You are clearly someone who is not in medical school. In medical school anything mandatory is synonymous with a worthless waste of time. We all know this. Break from studying? To read more books? Do you read what you write? How about we don't let WRITERS say what goes in a MEDICAL curriculum. By the way throwing in "established" in front of writer doesn't do anything for me. Nice try though.

There is enough busy work in med school that eats into my learning time and this is just more useless busy work. Seriously I want to know how you came up with such a bad idea. Tomorrow I might sit down for a whole day and start writing all the bad ideas I can think of. And at the end of the day I still would not have an idea as bad as this one.

God I hope you never become an administrator.

WTF? As if we're just rolling in free time. What a dumb idea. I don't need more work disguised as a "break from studying" particularly when it does not add to my clinical knowledge. I do not even have enough time to study things as exhaustively as I did as an undergrad. I (as well as probably everyone else) ends up having to change their study system so that they can keep up with the material. For me this meant not studying the way I like (ie reading, taking notes, reorganization, etc). In terms of raw memory/retention I probably retain a little less the way I study now but I have to study this way or I would get behind (or not have a life).

I need more effin time for the s*** I care about professionally so I can stop encroaching on the time I need for the **** I care about personally. Anything beyond what I care about professionally and personally is b******* I can't be bothered with.

I second FunnyCurrent and also hope you never become an administrator. Hell, I hope posting this nonsense on SDN is the closest you ever get to medicine. Again this is a terrible idea and you should be ashamed of even suggesting it. I imagine attending a med school that forced me to read patient biographies so I can "relax" from all the learning is something like hell on earth. If my med school started doing this I would take it as a sign that I did something really really bad in my past life and this is my punishment.

I also do not like the idea of "optional" humanities components. I like to say once a camel gets its nose under the tent, the body will soon follow. These people running the humanities components probably have jobs and guess what's good for job security? That's right: making it mandatory. That's step 1. Step 2 is adding more components to artificially inflate their importance as the basis for a salary raise. This BS needs to be stopped at the source. Instead of giving me a free book or poetry, or hiring some clown to lead a discussion section how about you don't buy any of that crap and cut 1K out of our tuition? Now that is something I can stand behind.

 

[Valadi]

I like to say once a camel gets its nose under the tent, the body will soon follow.

lol wut

 

[Wheatley]

lol wut

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel's_nose

Excerpt:

The camel's nose is a metaphor for a situation where permitting some small undesirable situation will allow gradual and unavoidable worsening. A typical usage is this, from U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater in 1958:
This bill and the foregoing remarks of the majority remind me of an old Arabian proverb: "If the camel once gets his nose in the tent, his body will soon follow." If adopted, the legislation will mark the inception of aid, supervision, and ultimately control of education in this country by the federal authorities.[1]

 

[Dan1804]

Dr. Rita Charon (MD/PhD in English) at Columbia has been doing some cool stuff re: narrative and medicine.

http://www.narrativemedicine.org/

 

[Wordead]

Would rather insert my penis into a wood chipper

 

[McPoyle]

Dr. Rita Charon (MD/PhD in English) at Columbia has been doing some cool stuff re: narrative and medicine.

http://www.narrativemedicine.org/

There are a lot of cool things that are utterly useless, this happens to be one of them.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Do you think that having mandatory or elective literature/humanities courses in medical school is a good idea (or even clubs)? An established writer who teaches literature at a local university states that more and more med schools are incorporating literature in their education to give students a break from studying and give insight into patients life. For instance, if a patient suffering from cancer writes a book, we will get a deeper understanding of what a patient goes through and that will ultimately make better doctors. Do you agree with this?

Do I agree about reading a book about cancer? I guess. Why don't you just ask the patient themselves?!!?!?

I'll just repeat what other's have said: It'd be a good club thing if you're into it but a terrible, terrible thing if mandatory.

And what does an established writer know about medical education?!?!

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Dr. Rita Charon (MD/PhD in English) at Columbia has been doing some cool stuff re: narrative and medicine.

http://www.narrativemedicine.org/

Good for them, they can do whatever they're interested in. Not a fan of their push though:

"She is currently Principal Investigator on an NIH project to enhance the teaching of social science and behavioral science in medical schools."

Read: Give you more crap to read and writing stories about how you're so emphatic now because you've read "patient narratives". Which will actually just lead to more pissed off medical students and probably less emphatic ones. I'm sure they get great results about their "narrative" programs because medical students are experts at telling you what you want to hear.

I can be pissed as **** that I just had to waste my time writing a three page paper on some patient story I just had to read while I still have 100 pages of pathology to review but do you think I'm going to write about how this was a total waste of my time and I'm now going to have to spend those hours I wasted catching up on path that I'm already three days behind in?? Not likely.

 

[lightfire22000]

I think it would soften our minds too much. Michael Crichton, George Miller, William James and Oliver Wendell Holmes the Elder did just fine in the humanities without learning about them in medical school courses.

It's like making engineers watch Star Trek. Speaking of which, medical schools train doctors, not poets.

That being said, it's good to pursue literature and the humanities as an avocation.