Living overseas, can't find clinical experience, starting to freak out

[VNnontrad]

I see a lot of GPA/MCAT angst here on SDN, but I have the opposite problem (not to worry, this version also comes with the same old angst you know & love!). Based on the AAMC tables I'm in the max acceptance category. I have a great work history as a science teacher, lots of cultural/life experience from living overseas for 9 years, and I know how to interview & interact with all kinds of people. Prerequisites will be finished in time, with max scores. So all that looks good. My plan is (was?) to apply this upcoming cycle e.g. 2016.

But I have almost no clinical experience, and I've had a hard time finding anything in Vietnam (I moved here in September to finance this whole med school endeavor, so I don't have connections nor do I know the language). I'm starting to seriously worry I'll be in the"6%" or whatever that don't get in despite their stats. All the clinics/hospitals I've contacted have ignored me, had false hope with one organization but it fell through despite follow up. There are organized (expensive) opportunities for students to come for a few weeks, stay in a dorm and volunteer during the day, but working full time & living locally that's not an option. I'm taking Physics 2 & Orgo 2 in the States this summer & my next hope was to find something then, but so far the places I've contacted want a longer commitment than my job will allow. I know I need the experience & I want to reassure myself this is the right decision (I grew up around health care & hospitals through my family, my job deals with a lot of medical topics & I've read up/talked to as many people as I can, so I feel pretty certain, but it would still be much better to have more exposure to be sure).

Not to mention LORs, I've been out for 15 years, except some summer classes taught by TA's, not all of whom had a solid grasp of English. But between strong employer letters & letting the numbers speak to my academics I'm less worried about that, for the schools I'm applying to.

Anyway I'll keep trying, more cold calling/emailing is in my future. But the worrier part of me is starting to think I should give up & save the thousands of dollars & weeks of jet lag it will cost flying back & forth to the U.S. this fall for interviews (if I'm going to be rejected anyway), and just move back the following year to work as a CNA/EMT for a year & apply in 2017.
On the other hand, I've already turned my life upside down for this, and being overseas is what made it financially plausible. So moving back, aging another year when I'm already so much older than most, & living below the poverty line is also unappealing.

What do you think nontrads? Ideas? Advice? Should I even bother (I mean with the 2016 app)??

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DrMidlife]

um, which app cycle? the AMCAS that opens in 1 month for med school starting a year from now (2015-2016) or the following year (2016-2017)?

if you're talking about the 2015-2016 app year, you're done, it's in the can, hope your MCAT exam went well and that you ordered your transcripts already and that you have good internet access next month to get your app submitted. Traveling from VIetNam to the US for interviews sounds like a disaster - you'll be flying August - January. if you read the Perri Klass book where she gets into med school despite being in Italy and not going to any interviews, that was 30-40 years ago and it doesn't work that way now.

Aside from not having any clinical exposure, it doesn't sound like you're ready to go for 2015-2016.

best of luck to you.

 

[VNnontrad]

Thanks for you advice DrMidlife, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.
Yes, I was planning on applying for the upcoming 2016 cycle, despite the logistical difficulties. MCATs are done and they did go very well (I've been teaching a lot that material for several years, which probably didn't hurt), that is a strong point of my app as is GPA. There's a solid chance that the numbers will stand out enough to get me in the door for interviews regardless of other weaknesses. But that could backfire, if I spend time/money/my employer's good will flying back and forth and lack of experience still ends up keeping me from acceptance. Transcripts, essays, sending apps are all organized/planned out & shouldn't be a problem, it's a big city so Internet is fine.

I agree, I am also quite worried about all the flying, along with the clinical exposure problem. Even with setbacks I had still planned to at least have some clinical activities lined up to note on the app & mention in interviews, but as I said it hasn't panned out so far. I'm also hoping to coordinate most of the interviews with my fall & Christmas breaks from teaching, but realistically I can't see making more than 3 trips (they are long breaks so I would try arrange multiple interviews but I'm not in control of that). So I'm also limited in how many schools I can apply to/accept interviews at, which doesn't help at all.

I think I have to at least try the app, even if it's a long shot, because one year older makes enough of a difference in my life plans. But I am definitely steeling myself for rejection, improvement & reapplication from the US, so travel isn't such a limitation. Your cautions have driven that home even more. Sigh.

 

[DrMidlife]

quantify "almost no clinical experience"

 

[VNnontrad]

I volunteered at the State hospital (psychiatric) for a few months in college, about 50 hours. I've observed an ob/gyn who ended up doing a C-section, also a heart surgery. But those we're not recent. I toured an oncology research center & the cardiovascular research wing of an academic hospital in Spain, but as a teacher, I organized them as field trips.

I feel like I grew up in a hospital, my mom was a nurse and a single mom so we spent a lot of time underfoot. But that won't show up in an app . . .
Add maybe a few hours of shadow/volunteer if I manage to harass enough people to finally find something, and even then it's still very slim.

 

[NonTradJp]

VNnontrad. Did you talk to the churches. Catholic churches in Vietnam tend to have connections to hospitals since priests and nuns often volunteer there. Though the persecution may have ended that since I last been there. But make sure to try all the churches around. They would also likely have someone that speaks English. Probably the Catholic priests. If they can get you in as a church sponsored volunteer you would be set. Make sure you tell them about your plans and how you have been serving in Vietnam all these years teaching science.

Next, if you do not get clinical experience even after trying my suggestion above...I hate to say this, but maybe come back for a year and get it. Cause...well it's a big uphill battle to be a re applicant I heard and the angst can be many times greater.

We can PM if you want to bounce ideas more.

 

[DrMidlife]

Exposure to the US healthcare "system" including patient contact is what you're expected to have.

It's of course interesting to have global healthcare exposure but that's not exposing you to the "system" in which you'll train for 7+ years. You're expected to have researched the job for which you're interviewing.

I suggest reading everything Atul Gawande ever wrote, which imho is the most efficient way to get up to speed on healthcare in the US. This will build a foundation while you're finding US clinical opportunities. Without substantial in-person exposure, you'll need to apply very broadly such as 50 schools, and roll the dice on it not getting noticed, and "throw away" some interviews because of schools that don't review apps looking for dealbreakers before they invite you to interview.

I still think the 2015-2016 app year is going to turn out to be a VERY expensive, unsuccessful experiment because of your travel limitations, and the med school app process will devalue your VietNam experience and stress you to the gills. But please do keep us posted, and definitely take notes for a memoir about it.

Best of luck to you.

 

[22031 Alum]

Please don't rush this. I know you have life plans, but if you don't get in this time you could very well be crippling yourself for future attempts. All for the sake of one year, which, trust me is not a big difference in the long view. If you don't plan on significantly changing grades or test scores, then your best chance will be your first try. Do it when you are 100% ready. Not when you're mostly ready but simply can't fathom waiting a year. This is the rest of your working life we are talking about. Do not rush.

Also, shadowing and other clinical experience in Vietnam will not help your app as much as you think, especially with little US clinical experience.

 

[shopsteward]

You've got three strikes against you for this year: you haven't finished your pre-reqs yet, you don't have clinical experience and you will have difficulty attending interviews.

Do you have to go back to Vietnam after your summer courses? If you need to go back for the money, then taking an extra year to apply will give you that much more in the bank to help your finances while you are in med school, and that extra year getting your finances in order could be well spent. If you don't need to go back for the money, then find a job in the USA and start some intensive volunteering this summer.

For short term volunteering opportunities, look in the less glamourous places - nursing homes, hospices, hostels, etc. rather than big hospitals.

 

[MD89]

As much as it'll hurt to sit out this cycle, I think it's in your best interest to do so. I'm in a somewhat similar position as you (high stats as well) but already finished all my prereqs and have an okayish amount of clinical experience and I'm 99% sure I'm going to wait till next year to apply since I have minimal shadowing hours and could really use more clinical hours.


As a non-trad, I think we may get a pass on something like lack of research experience. But, I think we are expected to basically have just as much clinical exposure as undergrads.

I literally have no idea what I'm going to do with myself once I can quit my current job (which I hate) in the fall and it's difficult, I'm not going to lie. I want to do something healthcare related but I'm not very interested in becoming a CNA or scribe which seem to be the most popular options. I know that by waiting though, I'm increasing my chances of eventually matriculating at a school I *want* to go to, rather than just any random school that was willing to accept me. For me, that's worth the trade off.

 

[VNnontrad]

Wow. Ok this is a lot to think about. Thanks so much everyone for helping me think this through, this is really helpful advice. I am going to seriously consider waiting. I guess I didn't realize reapplicants were at such a disadvantage. It is also a really good point about getting into the schools you want to go to, MD89.

I do have to be in Vietnam next school year, for financial reasons and because I'm under contract. Which means even if I wait, I won't be able to get substantial US clinical experience until June 2016.
Hopefully I will find local opportunities that I could continue next school year (the churches are a great suggestion, thank you NonTradJP, I will definitely try that). I was also thinking hospice would be my best bet for the summer, I hadn't thought of nursing home, but that's also a good option. There is also a free clinic looking for intake interviewers, I bet they would take me short term because I speak Spanish, but I think hospice would be better if I can get it. 40-50 hours is probably the max I can swing while taking Orgo & physics in a summer session, though my GPA could absorb a B if it means I get more clinical.

So if I wait, I'd have that and I was thinking I could do the online part of CNA training from here, then finish training and start right away next June. CNA seems more hands on than scribe although it's not that appealing to me either. And I could always tutor to supplement the pay. It would still be mostly planned hours on the app but by the time I interviewed that would be substantially more than I have now. Still, would it be enough to make a difference? Or would I just end up a 37 year old applicant with too little clinical experience, instead of 36?

 

[Esquire]

.