Loma Linda

[flying rider]

Well, I just got a secondary from LLU and maybe I should have done more research on LLU before but somehow I just realized that they have required chapels every week and required religion classes. Now I'm considering withdrawing my app from there because I don't know that I would enjoy those requirements. Or should I continue on with it just to see if I'll even get in? What do you guys think? Especially people also applying there - do those requirements bother you guys at all? I mean, I'm a Christian and stuff but... not super religious. I feel like it'd be really constraining going to school there.

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[Vicviper]

Are you able to get a Religious/ Spiritual Letter of Rec? They require one in addition to the other letters.

LLUProf would be able to better answer some of your questions.

Don't quote me, but I think when I took the tour some of the students said that you're not required to go to their chapel, but are given time during the week to go to your own religious service or something like that. I turn to LLUProf for an exact answer on this one.

 

[noles]

.....

 

[flampard]

just looking at those essay questions make me to withdraw my app!

 

[Vicviper]

Eh, they're a religious school, but I hear that it's not like they keep preaching to you to convert, and most of the dentists I've worked with went there and loved it.

 

[fsddsms]

Eh, they're a religious school, but I hear that it's not like they keep preaching to you to convert, and most of the dentists I've worked with went there and loved it.

The dentist I work for said he got a kick out of reporting people to the dean lol... he got a job as like RA of a dorm and I still can't believe that they do room checks at like 10pm to make sure you're in your dorm room ( at 21+ years of age!). That was back in his day though; I'm not sure how it is now.

He reported ppl coming in drunk to their rooms and reported them to the dean; who apparently lived in the same dorm lol. You gotta sign in and out as well to leave or exit your dorm and tell them where you're going.

 

[wwdaffodils]

just looking at those essay questions make me to withdraw my app!

I think that's what they're trying to do. I mean, not LLU isn't intentionally trying to get you- personally- to withdraw your application, but they want to make sure that all their applicants know about LLU and the environment. If you don't agree with their mission to train Christian doctors, you'll have to be OK with at least being tolerant and going along with everything they require. If you can't do that, don't apply.

I really don't know how anyone can miss this. I mean, right in their mission statement it says: Faith, Chapel, Religion courses, Sabbath, Healthfulness. You wouldn't apply to a school in New York City and then complain about the fact that you're living in the city?

 

[noles]

..

 

[Vicviper]

The dentist I work for said he got a kick out of reporting people to the dean lol... he got a job as like RA of a dorm and I still can't believe that they do room checks at like 10pm to make sure you're in your dorm room ( at 21+ years of age!). That was back in his day though; I'm not sure how it is now.

He reported ppl coming in drunk to their rooms and reported them to the dean; who apparently lived in the same dorm lol. You gotta sign in and out as well to leave or exit your dorm and tell them where you're going.

Yeah, I hear it is pretty strict for the undergrads! Though I think it's loosened up a bit for the grad students, they even have a regular soda vending machine in the dental school, albeit at the bottom of a stair well.

As far as asking about alcohol and drug use, their religion permits neither, so if that's something they feel strongly about, they would probably want to know if you've had any DUI's or possession convictions. Haha, I don't think a beer here and there would prevent you from being accepted though. I just put that I don't drink that often, and that seemed to be fine.

 

[needa20]

wow, im still suprised to when i see these posts that people have already applied and then are suprised to see that its a Christian school. Ill be a D1 at LLU starting this Sept.

Its like any other private school that has a set mission. I am a white male, not disadvantaged and come from a pretty normal background, so I did not apply to Meharry; even though it was the closest school to me....
All of these LLU posts that have come up in since I joined this forum a year ago are equivalent to me applying to Meharry/Howard and then starting a thread about how I am suprised that they are primarly minority based schools...

applying to a school is a big commitment if you get in. you are going to spend at least 4 years there. So why would you not do a little research on each school you are applying to?

The required chapels are for just the first year I think, maybe two. If you can't see yourself being there and enjoying the Christian based atmosphere for 4 years, don't apply. Its that simple.

 

[Vicviper]

wow, im still suprised to when i see these posts that people have already applied and then are suprised to see that its a Christian school. Ill be a D1 at LLU starting this Sept.

Its like any other private school that has a set mission. I am a white male, not disadvantaged and come from a pretty normal background, so I did not apply to Meharry; even though it was the closest school to me....
All of these LLU posts that have come up in since I joined this forum a year ago are equivalent to me applying to Meharry/Howard and then starting a thread about how I am suprised that they are primarly minority based schools...

applying to a school is a big commitment if you get in. you are going to spend at least 4 years there. So why would you not do a little research on each school you are applying to?

The required chapels are for just the first year I think, maybe two. If you can't see yourself being there and enjoying the Christian based atmosphere for 4 years, don't apply. Its that simple.

A very good point, one should always do their research!

 

[flying rider]

Of course I knew it was a Christian school. Being a Christian, I was thinking I would enjoy the atmosphere at a Christian university. I went to a private Christian high school so yes, I have gone through the required weekly chapels and religion classes. However, I didn't know that LLU also had those requirements. By the time we get to dental school we're all in our 20s. I didn't think I'd be going through the same things I did in high school.

 

[needa20]

Of course I knew it was a Christian school. Being a Christian, I was thinking I would enjoy the atmosphere at a Christian university. I went to a private Christian high school so yes, I have gone through the required weekly chapels and religion classes. However, I didn't know that LLU also had those requirements. By the time we get to dental school we're all in our 20s. I didn't think I'd be going through the same things I did in high school.

Although my classes don't start for another month or two, I am pretty sure that the chapel service once a week and a religion class are going to be very hard or time consuming. like i said, i am not speaking from personal experiance yet, but Ill let you know in a few months. But I am confident that the chapel service is only for your first year or two

 

[flying rider]

Yeah, I'd love to hear what the day to day student life is like, so definitely let me know! By the way, did you mean you think that it WOULD be time consuming? That's what you wrote but I'm not sure if it was a typo and you actually meant you DON'T think it would be. Because that was one of my concerns too -- if dental school is already going to be like a full time job, it sounds like extra religion classes would just make the load heavier.

 

[noles]

Of course I knew it was a Christian school. Being a Christian, I was thinking I would enjoy the atmosphere at a Christian university. I went to a private Christian high school so yes, I have gone through the required weekly chapels and religion classes. However, I didn't know that LLU also had those requirements. By the time we get to dental school we're all in our 20s. I didn't think I'd be going through the same things I did in high school.

well said

 

[LLUProf]

OK let me see if I can help clarify things a bit and give everyone some perspective. There is a university wide chapel service from 11:00 to noon each Wednesday, attendance is required for your 1st 2 years but not your 3rd and 4th years when you are on clinic. Clinic does not close down for regular weekly chapel. Once a quarter there are "week-of-prayers" where there are chapels everyday for 1 week from 11:00 to noon. Everyone is encouraged to attend these as clinic is closed from 11:00 to 1:00 during this week. (Clinic is closed from 12:00 to 1:00 for lunch everyday) There are no chapels (regular or week-of-prayer) during summer quarter.
You are required to take 4 religion classes (obviously an average of 1/yr) Each religion class lasts for 1 quarter, I believe the 2 required ones are ethics and community involvement/service. The other two can be elective, there are many, many choices as there is a School of Religion on campus also.
As you can see the requirements are certainly not onerous, and if you have a Christian background, most find them enjoyable. By far the dental school's main emphasis is to turn out qualified and competent practitioners (I believe Loma Linda gives you more clinical experience than just about any other dental school) who practice with a Christian perspective. We're definitely not trying to turn everybody into a bunch of Seventh-day Adventists.
Regarding the "reporting to the dean" stories, I can affirm that that sort of activity has occurred in Adventist undergraduate universities, where each dorm has their own dean, and room checks and curfews exist. I am not aware of that activity at the graduate level. I have heard isolated stories from 40 and 50 years ago, but nothing since I graduated or was in school. (30 years ago). I hope this has helped answer some of your questions, feel free to ask anytime or pm me, that is what I'm here for. Dr. Mitchell

 

[lemoncurry]

Dr. Mitchell is spot on. Chapel is one hour on wednesdays (except for week of devotion when it is every day) and, while attendance is mandatory, participation is not. It's basically a non-sectarian time of prayer, singing and sermon, and it is your choice as to how much you involve yourself. Many participate actively while others use the time to read (laptops and other electronic devices are not allowed during chapel). Each quarter you get 2 excused absences from chapel.

As far as the religion classes, there has only been one so far that actually talked about religion specifically in terms of a person's relationship with God and it was not especially sectarian. That was first quarter. Subsequent classes that have fallen under the umbrella of religion have been about ethics and stuff like that.

I'm a non-SDA Christian and overall average guy in other respects. Are chapel and religion classes my favorite time at school? Truthfully, no, but neither is Biochem or Intro to Perio.

Fact is, wherever you go, there are going to be things that annoy you or rub you the wrong way or whatever. It's easy for outsiders to target these particular items just because LLU is the only school that incorporates religion into its curriculum. It is a really good school, though, and I'm very pleased with the quality of instruction i have received thus far overall.

 

[flying rider]

Thanks for the clarifications! I was imagining a lot more religion classes so that helps out a lot, knowing exactly what it's like.

 

[DDMess]

i actually thought about applying here but good thing i didn't. i'd have nothing to say about jesus.

 

[noles]

any advice for the "spiritual leader" letter of recommendation. thanks

 

[pixidust]

I am in the same boat as everyone.
How do you withdraw an app anyway? the standard procedure I mean.

 

[Ober3]

When are we supposed to send in a recommendation letter from a religious leader? And do they have to be christian?

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

It never fails to amaze me. I've read this thread, past Loma Linda threads and many other threads about other schools and see the comments people make. Why are people amazed, surprised, upset, etc when they find out Loma Linda is a religous school and that there are certain requirements they have when attending their program? Some people get upset when they wasted their money applying to schools like Meharry when their skin color is snow white and it is a known fact that very, very, very few caucasions are accepted there. Why do people spend their money applying to schools they know nothing about? Every one of the schools you apply to you should know about and have a reason why you you want to go to them. I know every school I applied to there were specific reasons why I chose to apply to them. I knew what I was getting into. Would you ever invest in stocks you knew nothing about just because? Anyone who cares abour their money wouldn't. Why apply to a school you know nothing about? Yeah, you stand a chance of getting into that school, but is that school a fit for you?

As LLUProf stated, they are not trying to convert you to become a Seventh Day Adventist. They are training dentists who practice with a Christian's perspective. Now, you don't have to be a SDA or a Christian to appreciate the education you get there. If you are a decent human being and believe in doing on to others as you'd want done to you, if you truthfully want to help others, if you care about the well being of others, then your time at LLU shouldn't be much different from what you already believe as they are teaching these values and how they apply to you and your profession. Even if you are not a Christian, attending a school like Loma Linda will only better you as a person. Personally, I think all schools should teach similiar principles as Loma Linda (without the religious message). It would hopefully make look at ourselves and how we view our profession and how we treat our patients.

Overall message, before you ever apply for anything, purchase anything, do anything, you should ALWAYS research what you are getting into. Not all schools are a fit for everyone. If you can adapt, great. But if you don't do your reasearch ahead of time, don't complain later on if you are disappointed or upset because of something that you could have easily found out with a little research. Buyer / Applier beware!

 

[flying rider]

...As stated in my other post, I knew it was a Christian school and as I myself am a Christian, I chose to apply to it. I didn't blindly choose to apply there. I just didn't know the extent of the requirements and when I read about the required religion classes, I panicked slightly, imagining a heavy load of them but as LLUProf clarified, it's 1/yr for 1 qtr which is not bad at all.

Also, about the religious leader letter, I'm not sure if it has to be a Christian, they didn't specify. In the secondary it has a place for you to put the contact info (ie email) of the person who will be writing the letter and they get emailed something to fill out. I called them to clarify whether it was a form or if they needed to write a letter similar to our other letters and she said it was my choice. (I chose form because I think it'd be easier on my evaluator).

And noles, for advice on the letter... I'm not sure what to tell you. You said you weren't in a church anymore, but what about before? I asked my youth pastor from the youth group I went to in high school to write me one. Thankfully, he remembers me so he agreed.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

...As stated in my other post, I knew it was a Christian school and as I myself am a Christian, I chose to apply to it. I didn't blindly choose to apply there. I just didn't know the extent of the requirements and when I read about the required religion classes, I panicked slightly, imagining a heavy load of them but as LLUProf clarified, it's 1/yr for 1 qtr which is not bad at all.

Also, about the religious leader letter, I'm not sure if it has to be a Christian, they didn't specify. In the secondary it has a place for you to put the contact info (ie email) of the person who will be writing the letter and they get emailed something to fill out. I called them to clarify whether it was a form or if they needed to write a letter similar to our other letters and she said it was my choice. (I chose form because I think it'd be easier on my evaluator).

And noles, for advice on the letter... I'm not sure what to tell you. You said you weren't in a church anymore, but what about before? I asked my youth pastor from the youth group I went to in high school to write me one. Thankfully, he remembers me so he agreed.

Whoa .... never said you didn't know it was a Christian school and that weren't a Christian. I read your posts. But you alone said you should have done some research on LLU before. You may have known it was a Christian school, but you obviously hadn't done basic research that would have shown to you that religious courses were required. This is a common theme when people start finding out about Loma Linda. Doing a basic search here on SDN before applying or a search on LLU dental school's website would have let you known this material. I am not saying that you made the wrong decision and that you will not enjoy your time there if you are accepted. I am just saying that it amazes me that people don't do more research about the schools they are applying to and find out that a school has requirements like religious courses before applying. This just happens all too often.

 

[armorshell]

Obtaining spiritual leader letter for LLU, stepwise:

1. Become ordained as a minister by the Universal Life Church. This requires 5 minutes of your time, and can be done completely online. (http://www.themonastery.org/?destination=ordination)
2. Write your own recommendation letter.
3. ...
4. Profit

Conversely, as an ordained minister of the Universal Life Church, I'd be glad to write a letter of recommendation for anyone applying to LLU.

 

[pixidust]

before you ever apply for anything, purchase anything, do anything, you should ALWAYS research what you are getting into. Not all schools are a fit for everyone.

Thanks for the advice. Guess I should have done a little more research myself before picking schools to apply to. Must have missed this bit about LLU supplementaries.

 

[flying rider]

Yeah, I guess you're right. I knew it was a Christian school and that just kind of satisfied my knowledge of it at the time. Oh well, it works out though, I'm still chugging away at the secondary.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

Yeah, I guess you're right. I knew it was a Christian school and that just kind of satisfied my knowledge of it at the time. Oh well, it works out though, I'm still chugging away at the secondary.

Man, I only say these things because I have made a bad decision in my life where it cost me over $50,000. I didn't do my research and paid for it. I don't want people to make the mistakes I did. So, if I have to point things out that a few people have done or are planning on doing in order to help many people from making a mistake, that is what I do. Not trying to single you out, just trying to make a point to everyone to do their research before you jump into anything. Don't screw up like I did!

 

[flying rider]

Man, I only say these things because I have made a bad decision in my life where it cost me over $50,000. I didn't do my research and paid for it. I don't want people to make the mistakes I did. So, if I have to point things out that a few people have done or are planning on doing in order to help many people from making a mistake, that is what I do. Not trying to single you out, just trying to make a point to everyone to do their research before you jump into anything. Don't screw up like I did!

Thanks! It's good advice. =)

 

[lemoncurry]

Man, I only say these things because I have made a bad decision in my life where it cost me over $50,000. I didn't do my research and paid for it. I don't want people to make the mistakes I did. So, if I have to point things out that a few people have done or are planning on doing in order to help many people from making a mistake, that is what I do. Not trying to single you out, just trying to make a point to everyone to do their research before you jump into anything. Don't screw up like I did!

Was it joining the Navy?

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

Was it joining the Navy?

No - you have been on here long enough to know I am the most vocally pro-Navy. Best choice I ever made. Very proud to serve my country and plan on retiring from it as a Navy dentist. I know you are joking lemoncurry, but I just want to make sure people know that was far from it.

 

[brandonbraud]

The Dean of Admissions preferentially interviews Adventist applicants at their respective Adventist universities. I attended an Adventist school, so I didn't even have to travel to Loma Linda, Dean Kasishiekse or whatever his name is came directly to my school. And he knew not one thing about me. He obviously hadn't even read my application. The Adventist university in a southern state which I will not name (but it borders Mexico...) nearly lost its accrediation (mis-spelled that) not very many years ago. A little factoid about SDA schools for you. Sound good yet?

Did you know this school cost upwards of $60 000 a year? Do you understand the value of money? Can you not get into a cheaper school? All chapels and Jesus aside, coming here is something reserved for people who can't get in anywhere cheaper/better/in-state. My Adventist peers will tell you something different, but its because they didn't get in anywhere else. Period. They might tell you about praise music and quote a Bible verse. The quality of an SDA education is simply not as good, I was in the system for over 5 years and the education was sub-par. Their medical school, however, well that's another story. That is a very good school.

Sure, its easy to say they have more emphasis on clinical experience. But more than other schools? I don't believe that. Not for one minute. What they do have, is an OVER-priced Christian education here, and a dean that can kiss my heathen ass for not reading my application before he interviewed me.

Good luck on the Secondary app., just tell them you're are a prophet of the gospel and are somehow related to Ellen White, love singing in church, and have $240 000 plus rent and living expenses x 4 years. You'll be a shoe-in.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

The Dean of Admissions preferentially interviews Adventist applicants at their respective Adventist universities. I attended an Adventist school, so I didn't even have to travel to Loma Linda, Dean Kasishiekse or whatever his name is came directly to my school. And he knew not one thing about me. He obviously hadn't even read my application. The Adventist university in a southern state which I will not name (but it borders Mexico...) nearly lost its accrediation (mis-spelled that) not very many years ago. A little factoid about SDA schools for you. Sound good yet?

Did you know this school cost upwards of $60 000 a year? Do you understand the value of money? Can you not get into a cheaper school? All chapels and Jesus aside, coming here is something reserved for people who can't get in anywhere cheaper/better/in-state. My Adventist peers will tell you something different, but its because they didn't get in anywhere else. Period. They might tell you about praise music and quote a Bible verse. The quality of an SDA education is simply not as good, I was in the system for over 5 years and the education was sub-par. Their medical school, however, well that's another story. That is a very good school.

Sure, its easy to say they have more emphasis on clinical experience. But more than other schools? I don't believe that. Not for one minute. What they do have, is an OVER-priced Christian education here, and a dean that can kiss my heathen ass for not reading my application before he interviewed me.

Good luck on the Secondary app., just tell them you're are a prophet of the gospel and are somehow related to Ellen White, love singing in church, and have $240 000 plus rent and living expenses x 4 years. You'll be a shoe-in.

Or in your case, a cowboy boot in!

 

[lemoncurry]

I can't speak for other adventist institutions or the other programs in the school, but in terms of dental education, Loma Linda is a good school. Nothing against brandonbraud, but I would value the words of an LLU student over someone who decided to go somewhere else. Plus, since i am non-SDA, I have no axe to grind whatsoever.

 

[monkeymorris]

Yeah, I'd love to hear what the day to day student life is like, so definitely let me know! By the way, did you mean you think that it WOULD be time consuming? That's what you wrote but I'm not sure if it was a typo and you actually meant you DON'T think it would be. Because that was one of my concerns too -- if dental school is already going to be like a full time job, it sounds like extra religion classes would just make the load heavier.

Let me start off by saying that I will be a D1 at LLU in the Fall. This school was my number one choice, and while I am Christian, I am not SDA. I learned about LLUSD from a doctor with whom I worked for many years, and before it came time to apply, I did a lot of research about the school and a lot of soul-searching about what I really wanted to get out of my next 4 years. LLU was the only program that really seemed to believe not only in helping to create great dentists, but also in helping to create good people. This university is known world-wide for its humanitarian programs, and hey, let's face it, is an hour of chapel and a religion class really going to be that time consuming ?- I dare say that it might be a welcome retreat from the stresses of graduate school. Even though I am not SDA, I look forward to exploring my own faith and being surrounded by a group of people who believe in being healthy and treating everyone with great compassion. Every school, just like every group we join, stands for something, and when you apply to be a part of that school, I believe it is one's responsibility to stand by that "something"-or at least be committed to having an open mind. It's a shame that people talk about just "putting up" with the religious aspect - it should be seen as another oppurtunity to better yourself, expand your knowledge...etc. I don't mean to sound "preachy", and I apologize if I have, but I feel very strongly that this school really offers something unique, and I just think that if you're not at least kinda' "feelin'" their mission, you should apply somewhere else that isn't based on Christian values. Ihope I didn't offend anybody - it is really not my intent.

 

[monkeymorris]

The Dean of Admissions preferentially interviews Adventist applicants at their respective Adventist universities. I attended an Adventist school, so I didn't even have to travel to Loma Linda, Dean Kasishiekse or whatever his name is came directly to my school. And he knew not one thing about me. He obviously hadn't even read my application. The Adventist university in a southern state which I will not name (but it borders Mexico...) nearly lost its accrediation (mis-spelled that) not very many years ago. A little factoid about SDA schools for you. Sound good yet?

Did you know this school cost upwards of $60 000 a year? Do you understand the value of money? Can you not get into a cheaper school? All chapels and Jesus aside, coming here is something reserved for people who can't get in anywhere cheaper/better/in-state. My Adventist peers will tell you something different, but its because they didn't get in anywhere else. Period. They might tell you about praise music and quote a Bible verse. The quality of an SDA education is simply not as good, I was in the system for over 5 years and the education was sub-par. Their medical school, however, well that's another story. That is a very good school.

Sure, its easy to say they have more emphasis on clinical experience. But more than other schools? I don't believe that. Not for one minute. What they do have, is an OVER-priced Christian education here, and a dean that can kiss my heathen ass for not reading my application before he interviewed me.

Good luck on the Secondary app., just tell them you're are a prophet of the gospel and are somehow related to Ellen White, love singing in church, and have $240 000 plus rent and living expenses x 4 years. You'll be a shoe-in.

Wow. I got into other schools, cheaper schools, in-state schools, am not SDA, and chose LLUSD - Hands down. I was honest at my interview and had a great conversation with my interviewer, who was into philosophy just like myself. I guess we are all looking for different things from our education and most surely will travel different paths to obtain them.

 

[LLUProf]

Sure, its easy to say they have more emphasis on clinical experience. But more than other schools? I don't believe that. Not for one minute.

brandonbraud, there are several inaccuracies throughout your statement, I'd be happy to discuss them with you via a pm if you would like. This one I'll address on the public page because it would seem to call my integrity into question. I do not make blanket statements that I cannot support. The latest ADA data (2007-2008 school year) shows that Loma Linda is in the top 3 of the 56 dental schools with hours spent in direct patient care. Loma Linda is about 3000 hours, the average is about 1950 hours. I am currently comparing with other schools as far as revenue generated per student. I would not be surprised if this puts Loma Linda at the top as far as procedures accomplished in a dental school clinic experience. (I am currently factoring in regional cost differences in dental care, Southern California is one of the most expensive areas in the country, rivaled only by the New England states) If any one is interested, I'll be happy to post my findings, supportive or not, after making the numbers comparable school to school. Maybe I can get you to believe for a few seconds anyway