Looking for Advice! 2-time applicant non-traditional student.

[Kron]

Hello all

I am a 27 yo non-trad student. I graduated with a BA in math & economics in 2009, and left my economics PhD early with an MA in order to pursue medicine. Took me a while to figure out what I really wanted, but I realized I would find a career in healthcare much more rewarding than academic economics.

Undergrad GPA was low, like ~3.3 ish. Took one year of PB courses at CU-Boulder and GPA was ~3.75. However, BCPM factors in all the math credits I took as an undergrad so my science GPA is like a 3.5. MCAT is 34.

Last two years I have been working in clinical research in Dallas and have 6 publications, 2 accepted and in press, and a few more under review. I've had the chance to work with patients while enrolling into clinical trials plus have had an immersion into the medical field by working in the cardiology department at a large academic research center.

I am a two time applicant. Last year I received one interview only (applied to 15 schools). Only one interview again this year, but I applied to 30 schools this time around.

Considering my lack of interviews, medical school may just not be in the cards. It seems like I have taken all the courses, scored pretty well on the MCAT, and have great experience in research & clinical situations. Red flags are my relatively low GPA and the fact that I have a misdemeanor arrest for a DWI in 2011.

What advice do you all have about strengthening my application?

1. Should I try the Caribbean? I will likely get in but I wonder how feasible it is to get into a competitive residency program if (a) you're from a Caribbean school and (b) you're an older MD

2. What about doing an MPH or a Master's program in a healthcare related field? With my experience in math and clinical research, I think a Master's in biostatistics is right up my alley. Pro's are that if I do well, it would be another sign of my dedication and help differentiate me from the "rest of the pack". Also, if I do not get into an MD program after receiving my biostats degree, at least I have the foundation to pursue a career in biostats (perhaps PhD) - it's not that far removed from the healthcare field, although the downside is lack of direct influence on patient care.

I'm open to any and all suggestions!

Thanks!

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[QofQuimica]

Your GPA is a little low, but not so low that it's an automatic dealbreaker. I suspect that your having a relatively fresh DWI would have been a lot more of a problem. Time is your friend here; it certainly helps that you're now three years out from this (and hopefully have not had any more run-ins with the law during that time). My suggestions:

1) Did you apply to DO schools also? If not, you should try that first before considering something as high risk as the Caribbean.

2) Call the admissions office at a couple of the schools that rejected you with no interview, and ask them (humbly and politely) what they'd suggest you do to improve your app for next year. Not all schools will give this feedback, but it may be helpful to you if you can find one or two that will.

3) Unless you want to be a biostatistician, I'd forget about getting the biostats degree. It's not going to strengthen your med school app, and med school is going to be expensive enough without you spending time and money on getting a degree you don't need or really want.

 

[Kron]

Appreciate the reply, Q.

I have applied to one DO school - the one in Ft. Worth: UNTHSC. Have not heard back from them.

I *really* thought that having clinical research experience would strengthen my application between my 1st and 2nd time applying. Hence, I did not apply to other DO schools.

But thank you for your advice regarding DO vs. Caribbean; it seems in line with what others have recommended regarding the "hierarchy".

Edit: And I have not received formal rejections from many schools -- only two of the 30, in fact. However, I am not feeling good about interview invites at this late stage, and thus I am beginning to plan for next cycle.

 

[ThreadStalker]

I understand your frustration. I went through three application cycles with a grand total of 4 interviews. The process lasted so long that my (pretty good) MCAT expired and I had to retake it before my third cycle. I'll never know why I got so little response to my applications, but that seems to be the way things go sometimes. Anyway, I finally got accepted during the last cycle so I would encourage to to not give up if this is what you really want to do.

More specifically, I would second Q here. Reach out to the schools and listen to what they have to say. If you can, attend any talks the adcoms give about the schools and introduce yourself to them. Show them that you're interested in their school.

The DO route is also much better than the Caribbean. My school shares clinical rotation sites with a DO school so their education is not all that different from ours. Residency programs place a great deal of weight on letters from clinical preceptors and your USMLE, both of which are unaffected by whether your program is DO or MD, and only rely on your efforts to make a good impression/score.

Finally, if you decide to take another shot at the allopathic schools, be sure to include a lot of newer schools in your application. Some of the newest schools have very low numbers of applicants and you should stand a good chance with them.

Keep your chin up and keep moving forward. I remember what it felt like to go through cycle after cycle and get no where. Just keep hammering!

 

[kthxbai]

There is one thing that immediately jumps out at me: where is your volunteering, clinical and otherwise? The lack of community service is an automatic deal breaker to a lot of schools, and I suggest you invest your time there. Clinical research is certainly a nice bonus, but a cherry without the cake won't fill anyone up.

 

[deleted651092]

you seem like you'd be a solid candidate for DO schools. consider DO, it's 100000x better than going the Caribbean route (in fact, it's just a slightly different version of Allo, in the end you'll still be a physician).

 

[jakeislove]

I wouldn't go offshore in this climate.

One of the new school opening every few months will probably take you.

 

[Kron]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I am going to send out my DO application shortly. Considering the alternative (Caribbean) if I do not get into DO school I will try a third time for US allopathic and DO before going the Caribbean route. My 34 is good for one more cycle

As for volunteer -- I admit that's not the strongest part of my application. I have done 250+ hrs while in high school, but that doesn't count for AMCAS. I did 2 weeks international volunteer at a clinic in Peru, helped with a vascular clinic checking arm/leg blood pressures at a health fair, and done small amount of Habitat for Humanity work.

If I do not get in to DO school, I will definitely look into perhaps an extended volunteer experience. I would like something that's legit volunteering rather than "tourism/volunteering" that was essentially my international volunteer experience.

 

[ridethecliche]

When did you apply? I think it's starting to get a bit late for DO at this point. If you're not verified through their primary yet, I'm not sure it'd be worth it although I'm not familiar with DO schools.

 

[Kron]

I haven't applied yet, but am gathering the materials and hope to submit by the end of this week.

The deadlines are Feb/March for most schools, so I'm assuming there's still a chance.

Edit: I am going to call the admissions office for each DO school and get an idea of whether it's a good idea to apply this late or not.

 

[ridethecliche]

I haven't applied yet, but am gathering the materials and hope to submit by the end of this week.

The deadlines are Feb/March for most schools, so I'm assuming there's still a chance.

Edit: I am going to call the admissions office for each DO school and get an idea of whether it's a good idea to apply this late or not.

@Goro , what's the situation like at your school? Think the DO cycle is still feasible for someone with good stats?

 

[Goro]

I think OP would still be able to land an II from my school IF s/he applies ASAP.

However, the low numbers of recent clinical experience are a concern and may get the OP onto a wait list instead of accept, so it will all depend upon how OP spins his/her patient contact experience during the recent clinical research work.

Given the lack of luck with the TX schools, I doubt that a rd round of MD admissions will yield anything positive, unless OP gets in some killer ECs, which is possible. I see much better luck with DO schools.

@Goro , what's the situation like at your school? Think the DO cycle is still feasible for someone with good stats?

 

[ridethecliche]

OP, did you do TXMDAS?

 

[Kron]

Yes, I did do the TMDSAS application which includes the DO school in Ft. Worth. So far I've only had an II at Texas Tech Lubbock, back in mid-September. No word yet, as they have began sending out offers Nov. 15th.

@Goro I am surprised that you interpret clinical research experience as relatively weak clinical experience. I believe it has been great clinical experience - although certainly nothing comparative to a NP, RN, PA, EMT, etc. It is surprising in the sense that maybe if you interpret it this way, perhaps ADCOMS also interpret it in the same vein. Thus, I will definitely highlight or "spin" my clinical research experience to show that it is in fact a valuable clinical experience. Thanks for the tip.

 

[ehwhatsupdoc]

I would do the biostats degree if you can enroll locally at a state school while working full time at your job. Then apply broadly the Summer after your first year in the biostats program. Going into biostats is a great career alternative if you don't make it in to med school right away.

 

[Goro]

There's clinical research and then ther'es clinical research. Sometimes it's actually talking to patients, doing interviews, telling what they're in for and what the study is about and maybe even collecting something from them, like a cheek swab for a DNA polymorphism study, or urine samples for clin chem analysis.

But for some people "clinical research" is looking at clinical data collected by others and analyzing it. That doesn't count.

Thus, it all boils down to what you did.

Following a doctor/researcher around while s/he does all the work doesn't count either.

Yes, I did do the TMDSAS application which includes the DO school in Ft. Worth. So far I've only had an II at Texas Tech Lubbock, back in mid-September. No word yet, as they have began sending out offers Nov. 15th.

@Goro I am surprised that you interpret clinical research experience as relatively weak clinical experience. I believe it has been great clinical experience - although certainly nothing comparative to a NP, RN, PA, EMT, etc. It is surprising in the sense that maybe if you interpret it this way, perhaps ADCOMS also interpret it in the same vein. Thus, I will definitely highlight or "spin" my clinical research experience to show that it is in fact a valuable clinical experience. Thanks for the tip.

 

[ehwhatsupdoc]

Hmm if your mcat score is only good for one more cycle forget the biostats for now. Apply early next year, and get your clinical hours up.

 

[ehwhatsupdoc]

There's clinical research and then ther'es clinical research. Sometimes it's actually talking to patients, doing interviews, telling what they're in for and what the study is about and maybe even collecting something from them, like a cheek swab for a DNA polymorphism study, or urine samples for clin chem analysis.

But for some people "clinical research" is looking at clinical data collected by others and analyzing it. That doesn't count.

Thus, it all boils down to what you did.

Following a doctor/researcher around while s/he does all the work doesn't count either.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but wanted to get Goro's sage adivce. How is clinical laboratory science experience viewed by adcoms? I don't have much other clinical experience except 4 years of being a Medical Technologist and some shadowing.

 

[Kron]

There's clinical research and then ther'es clinical research. Sometimes it's actually talking to patients, doing interviews, telling what they're in for and what the study is about and maybe even collecting something from them, like a cheek swab for a DNA polymorphism study, or urine samples for clin chem analysis.

But for some people "clinical research" is looking at clinical data collected by others and analyzing it. That doesn't count.

Thus, it all boils down to what you did.

Following a doctor/researcher around while s/he does all the work doesn't count either.

I do talk to patients, explain to them the study, and obtain informed consent. I don't do blood draws, physicals, cheek swabs, etc. I do take blood pressures though.

But the majority of my work does come in the form of screening through EMRs, data entry, data analysis, literature reviews, writing manuscripts, etc.

I'll definitely emphasize some of the more memorable experiences while meeting with patients.

 

[benlugi]

the school tcom is strangely picky. i interviewed there 3 months ago and still have not heard a word either way. they have a solid program and a great location

 

[Goro]

Sounds like it's good enough. You might want to try adding some more clinical volunteering, thugh, to mix it up and make you stand out more. Think clinics, Planned Parenthood, hospice, nursing homes, your hospital.

I do talk to patients, explain to them the study, and obtain informed consent. I don't do blood draws, physicals, cheek swabs, etc. I do take blood pressures though.
But the majority of my work does come in the form of screening through EMRs, data entry, data analysis, literature reviews, writing manuscripts, etc.
I'll definitely emphasize some of the more memorable experiences while meeting with patients.

Worthwhile, but if you're just doing urinalysis or blood gasses without touching patients, then it doesn't add all that much. This from a former lab tech myself. Anything that involves patient contact is good.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but wanted to get Goro's sage adivce. How is clinical laboratory science experience viewed by adcoms? I don't have much other clinical experience except 4 years of being a Medical Technologist and some shadowing.

 

[ridethecliche]

Bwahhahaha to having the best of both worlds!

I get to draw people's blood and do chart reviews on them!

Honestly, not to be a braggart, but there are positions like this that exist. You just have to dig dig dig and get lucky.

I get to do research, be on papers, present at conferences, watch surgeons in the OR, and enroll patients in studies (some of which I draw blood for). I have a bunch of friends who have lots of patient contact as part of clinical research and others who shadow their PI's because their job involves them running medical simulations on a computer.