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Low Average GPA? DAT score.. HELP! Do I even have a chance?!
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As far as today goes, 3.3 (3.2 science) and 18AA with 17TS is a weak application across the board.
Areas of improvement will be your science GPA (I always advice undergrads to be in the 3.5+ for both overall and science) and to get that magic 19-20 AA&TS.
Lets assume for a second you will land the magic 23AA, with your current application, you will still be at a slight disadvantage because, through my years of researching pre-dentistry, I've come to learn that most schools (keyword "most" rather than "all") will favor a high GPA over high DAT.
Areas of improvement will be your science GPA (I always advice undergrads to be in the 3.5+ for both overall and science) and to get that magic 19-20 AA&TS.
Lets assume for a second you will land the magic 23AA, with your current application, you will still be at a slight disadvantage because, through my years of researching pre-dentistry, I've come to learn that most schools (keyword "most" rather than "all") will favor a high GPA over high DAT.
I also have a question, can anyone help me please? My overall GPA is 3.59, My science GPA is 3.69, and I have finished 70 credits so far. I was thinking to major in chemical engineering and minor in business, because of that I took all the math and physics courses(from precalc to diffrential equations). I really like going to the dental school better, so I try to take my DAT by the end of the summer and if I do really good, I try to get a degree in any major as soon as possible and go to dental school. My problem is that I have 4 Ws on my transcript. I retook two of those classes that I have W for, and I did really good. One semester because of a personal crisis I had to withdraw from three of my courses and now I think these Ws making my transcript look really bad although my oGPA and sGPA are not that bad. And also considering I took all these hard math courses(otherwise my GPA would be higher). Does anyone knows how these 4 Ws gonna affect me and if I have a high chance of rejection because of them. I try to ace the DAT but this is making my mind busy. Thanks for any response/advice
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Good things first:
-Holy crap. Your ECs are frickin' awesome. Go you! When it comes to being well-rounded, you're set.
-Your GPA ain't *that* bad. Are you still in school, or have you graduated? Does your GPA factor in courses from spring 2014?
-Your upward trend is a good thing. It also looks like you have taken plenty of upper-level sciences classes, which is great.
"Meh" things second:
-Get in those shadowing hours. That shouldn't be much of a problem.
Bad things last:
-Okay, I am seeing a LOT of excuses here. It's time to face the music. Since you've asked for advice, I'm going to give you some tough love here. You made the choices in your classes and when studying for the DAT that have gotten you to where you are today.
-First, don't blame things on your advisor. Plenty of people take stats in college and do perfectly fine. If you truly didn't need this course, you're a smart person--you could have taken the initiative to figure that out. Also, c'mon... Nobody just "somehow" manages to fail the final after keeping a good average throughout the semester--there is a reason behind that. I'm sure that if the entire class had done badly, grades would have been curved. From your post, I don't get the idea that that was the case... I'm sure you'd have mentioned it if it was.
-Next, your spring 2014 semester was hard and you did take a lot of courses, but it wasn't any harder than a semester of dental school will be. However, that being said, three Bs and two As aren't that bad, especially in upper-level bios and chems.
-You could have and should have picked a better time to take the DAT. I'm sure you knew what you were up against in your other courses. Everyone else has to plan it around their courses, too. Luckily, though, your scores really aren't that bad. Like you, I wouldn't apply with them--but there are people each year who get accepted with scores like these. Just keep that in mind and don't feel too down about them. Imagine how well you could do if you really put in some studying?
My advice:
-Let me start off by saying that ultimately, I think you are going to be fine.
-I'm giving you this tough love, though, because it's sometimes what we all need to hear. I can tell you're a smart and motivated person. I know you can do better, and it sounds like you are trying.
-You have got to get past the mindset of making excuses, though. I know it's hard not to. However, we're in the real world now. It isn't easy from this point on. You'll be taking hard class after hard class after hard class in dental school. You'll have to figure a lot of stuff out for yourself, without an advisor to guide you. I'm also telling you this because you cannot let this attitude come across in interviews. Maybe it *was* the case that some of your grades were unfair. However, you can't really say that in an interview. It shows immaturity. You just have to take responsibility for things, talk about what the experiences taught you, and move on. Touch lightly on the bad things when you're asked about them, but always try to spin them in a positive light. It stinks, but sometimes in life, we just have to eat crap and do things for the sake of appearances. You need to project yourself in the most mature light possible.
-I agree with you that you are entirely capable of doing better on the DAT. Put in some solid studying, and you will be fine.
-I would suggest that you do NOT submit your application until your DAT scores have come in to AADSAS. You will still be early enough of if you do this, and this way, there is no chance that a school would put your application in the "reject" file before waiting to see your new scores. I recommend that almost everyone wait for their new scores to be in before submitting. You just don't want to take any chances.
Whew! That was a lot. Let me reiterate my main point again--you will be fine. Keep doing what you're doing, but maybe tweak your mindset just a little bit.
-Holy crap. Your ECs are frickin' awesome. Go you! When it comes to being well-rounded, you're set.
-Your GPA ain't *that* bad. Are you still in school, or have you graduated? Does your GPA factor in courses from spring 2014?
-Your upward trend is a good thing. It also looks like you have taken plenty of upper-level sciences classes, which is great.
"Meh" things second:
-Get in those shadowing hours. That shouldn't be much of a problem.
Bad things last:
-Okay, I am seeing a LOT of excuses here. It's time to face the music. Since you've asked for advice, I'm going to give you some tough love here. You made the choices in your classes and when studying for the DAT that have gotten you to where you are today.
-First, don't blame things on your advisor. Plenty of people take stats in college and do perfectly fine. If you truly didn't need this course, you're a smart person--you could have taken the initiative to figure that out. Also, c'mon... Nobody just "somehow" manages to fail the final after keeping a good average throughout the semester--there is a reason behind that. I'm sure that if the entire class had done badly, grades would have been curved. From your post, I don't get the idea that that was the case... I'm sure you'd have mentioned it if it was.
-Next, your spring 2014 semester was hard and you did take a lot of courses, but it wasn't any harder than a semester of dental school will be. However, that being said, three Bs and two As aren't that bad, especially in upper-level bios and chems.
-You could have and should have picked a better time to take the DAT. I'm sure you knew what you were up against in your other courses. Everyone else has to plan it around their courses, too. Luckily, though, your scores really aren't that bad. Like you, I wouldn't apply with them--but there are people each year who get accepted with scores like these. Just keep that in mind and don't feel too down about them. Imagine how well you could do if you really put in some studying?
My advice:
-Let me start off by saying that ultimately, I think you are going to be fine.
-I'm giving you this tough love, though, because it's sometimes what we all need to hear. I can tell you're a smart and motivated person. I know you can do better, and it sounds like you are trying.
-You have got to get past the mindset of making excuses, though. I know it's hard not to. However, we're in the real world now. It isn't easy from this point on. You'll be taking hard class after hard class after hard class in dental school. You'll have to figure a lot of stuff out for yourself, without an advisor to guide you. I'm also telling you this because you cannot let this attitude come across in interviews. Maybe it *was* the case that some of your grades were unfair. However, you can't really say that in an interview. It shows immaturity. You just have to take responsibility for things, talk about what the experiences taught you, and move on. Touch lightly on the bad things when you're asked about them, but always try to spin them in a positive light. It stinks, but sometimes in life, we just have to eat crap and do things for the sake of appearances. You need to project yourself in the most mature light possible.
-I agree with you that you are entirely capable of doing better on the DAT. Put in some solid studying, and you will be fine.
-I would suggest that you do NOT submit your application until your DAT scores have come in to AADSAS. You will still be early enough of if you do this, and this way, there is no chance that a school would put your application in the "reject" file before waiting to see your new scores. I recommend that almost everyone wait for their new scores to be in before submitting. You just don't want to take any chances.
Whew! That was a lot. Let me reiterate my main point again--you will be fine. Keep doing what you're doing, but maybe tweak your mindset just a little bit.
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You...are seriously a god send haha I'm sorry for the negativity in my initial post... you're absolutely right about my attitude towards certain grades. I think I was extra stressed that day and ended up semi venting for no reason haha but I do take full responsibility for my actions and you're right. Thank you for pointing that out!
But in regards to your question: I was planning on taking my DAT again around july 15th-20th. When do you think I should submit my application? I keep seeing everyone talk about which batch they're in. How would one know if they're second, third, or fourth batch etc. ?
Oh and I will be graduating next spring and yes the courses I took spring 2014 are already factored into my GPA now! I'm going to start studying june 1st but i'm worried that may not be enough time but at the same time I don't want to be too late on applying since it's rolling admission.
P.s Your tough love was SOOOOO appreciated! thank you so so sososososoo much. I am beyond grateful for the time and effort you put into that response. Seriously. ahha thank you
No problem, girl! We've all been there.
You are retaking your DAT at a really good time. You'll be able to have everything in by August, and that means you'll be early. For info about applying and the batches, read the AADSAS FAQs link in my signature.
Search for the "first batch hullabaloo" thread, too!It's totally your call on when to submit. You can submit as early as the first batch and just indicate that you're going to retake. Theoretically, schools *should* wait until your new scores are in to look at your application. However, since you'll be able to get everything early, I would just wait submit on the same day as you take your DAT. That way, the first time that schools see your application, it will be completely ready to go. There will be no option of them throwing you in the "reject" pile before seeing your new scores.
I would get everything ready to go with your app long before you take your DAT. Go ahead and send your LORs and your transcripts. Then, on the day you take your DAT, submit it. Your scores should come in right around the time your GPA is verified. It'll all be done by August.
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Not to further annoy you.... but my anxiety is killin' me.. If I have everything in my August 1st.. will I still be considered early? Will be of any disadvantage? Sorry I know these are really specific questions and there is so much you could help with.. I just need to calm down right now -_- hahaNo problem, girl! We've all been there.
You are retaking your DAT at a really good time. You'll be able to have everything in by August, and that means you'll be early. For info about applying and the batches, read the AADSAS FAQs link in my signature.
It's totally your call on when to submit. You can submit as early as the first batch and just indicate that you're going to retake. Theoretically, schools *should* wait until your new scores are in to look at your application. However, since you'll be able to get everything early, I would just wait submit on the same day as you take your DAT. That way, the first time that schools see your application, it will be completely ready to go. There will be no option of them throwing you in the "reject" pile before seeing your new scores.
I would get everything ready to go with your app long before you take your DAT. Go ahead and send your LORs and your transcripts. Then, on the day you take your DAT, submit it. Your scores should come in right around the time your GPA is verified. It'll all be done by August.
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As a note, if you SUBMIT on August 1st, you'll still have to wait 1-2 weeks for your transcripts to be verified before your app can be sent out. You'll still be fine, though!
This might help: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/retaking-dat-and-submitting-app.1076057/
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Oh no no I meant to say that if everything is verified and ready by august 1st! I will send my app out before I take my test on july 18th! Thank you for all of your help.. I can't thank you enough. And I shall look at the link you just postedAs a note, if you SUBMIT on August 1st, you'll still have to wait 1-2 weeks for your transcripts to be verified before your app can be sent out. You'll still be fine, though!
This might help: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/retaking-dat-and-submitting-app.1076057/
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Oh no no I meant to say that if everything is verified and ready by august 1st! I will send my app out before I take my test on july 18th! Thank you for all of your help.. I can't thank you enough. And I shall look at the link you just posted
If you read that thread I posted the link for, though, you'll see that I don't actually recommend sending out your app BEFORE you take your test!
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I actually read through it all and found it to be immensly helpful and comforting haha I need to edit my thoughts before typing them I was planning on sending them out july 18th the day I take my exam or the 19th. Hopefully it'll be okay! thank youIf you read that thread I posted the link for, though, you'll see that I don't actually recommend sending out your app BEFORE you take your test!
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Just try applying. I'm probably in a worse situation, but I figured that it's better to take my chances and stay positive rather than not apply at all and living in assumptions. 6 LOR are really good, but since there's only room for 4, you'll have to mail them separately to schools who allow you to do that. Try taking the DAT one more time and focus on Qr and Bio this time.
Always remember that if you have worked hard and stay positive, things work out good. Numbers are good, but they don't decide anything unless you actually apply. Even if you don't make it, you'll just gain experience about the process and it will make you stronger. Generally it seems that a GPA below 3.5 and DAT below 18 is a skeptical application. But those are just averages and many are above and below.
Always remember that if you have worked hard and stay positive, things work out good. Numbers are good, but they don't decide anything unless you actually apply. Even if you don't make it, you'll just gain experience about the process and it will make you stronger. Generally it seems that a GPA below 3.5 and DAT below 18 is a skeptical application. But those are just averages and many are above and below.
I agree, apply to a lot of schools and see what happens. Your GPA and DAT are low but you said you thought you were a minority---can you clarify that? If so, your stats are above average for Howard and Meharry. Your EC's may perk interest for the adcoms enough that they will want to interview you as well. Keep in mind, the 3.48/3.56 GPA and the 19.9 DAT are median scores so plenty of people with lower scores were accepted as well.
