Low GPA, Biology Degree. What to do???

[crisco654]

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[NothingWasTheSame]

Honest question, would you rather explore alternative careers or be a physician (DO)??

 

[hoihaie]

@Ace Khalifa help your people out

 

[crisco654]

Honest question, would you rather explore alternative careers or be a physician (DO)??

Yes, I do still want to become a doctor. But I have to admit, I have been discouraged/depressed since graduating, believing my dream to become one is over(which I know is not true). And I completely understand I would be better off applying to a DO school, but I just wanted to see the path I would have to take to apply to a MD school. That's all

 

[medic86]

To be honest, working toward a MD program will take a considerable about of time (grade repair, killer mcat, and likely an SMP). It might not be worth the time investment compared to shooting for a DO program.

If you're absolutely sure you want to be a doctor, the DO route is probably the only feasible one.

That being said, anything is possible... and have happened.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

You stated your one critical flaw already: procrastination. You're not ready for med school if you don't drop the procrastination habit. That GPA is atrocious. Even my huge procrastinator, on-the-fence-about-premed friends didn't fare that badly. Post-bacc or SMP is pretty much required for you at this point. And flawless, I might add, so that you improve your GPA considerably. Did you do too many extracurricular activities in addition to procrastinating on studying? That's not a recipe for success; I've seen too many people at our undergrad fail at something (class, relationships, depression, etc.) because of that. Meet with one of the WUSTL pre-health advisors and let them help you make an HONEST assessment of what you've done so far. I really can't help you beyond that.

 

[crisco654]

You stated your one critical flaw already: procrastination. You're not ready for med school if you don't drop the procrastination habit. That GPA is atrocious. Even my huge procrastinator, on-the-fence-about-premed friends didn't fare that badly. Post-bacc or SMP is pretty much required for you at this point. And flawless, I might add, so that you improve your GPA considerably. Did you do too many extracurricular activities in addition to procrastinating on studying? That's not a recipe for success; I've seen too many people at our undergrad fail at something (class, relationships, depression, etc.) because of that. Meet with one of the WUSTL pre-health advisors and let them help you make an HONEST assessment of what you've done so far. I really can't help you beyond that.

I'm quite aware that my GPA is atrocious lol, but thank you for your honesty. And the funny thing, I really wasn't involved in a whole lot of extracurricular activities. You don't understand how angry I am at myself for ****ing up in college. But the past is the past, and I can only learn from my failures. And I know 110% I'm not ready for med school, far from it. And I already researched some post-bac/SMP programs, and many require higher GPAs to get accepted. That's why I came on here to see if anyone else has been in similar situations, and did they do they do. But thanks for your help.

 

[crisco654]

You stated your one critical flaw already: procrastination. You're not ready for med school if you don't drop the procrastination habit. That GPA is atrocious. Even my huge procrastinator, on-the-fence-about-premed friends didn't fare that badly. Post-bacc or SMP is pretty much required for you at this point. And flawless, I might add, so that you improve your GPA considerably. Did you do too many extracurricular activities in addition to procrastinating on studying? That's not a recipe for success; I've seen too many people at our undergrad fail at something (class, relationships, depression, etc.) because of that. Meet with one of the WUSTL pre-health advisors and let them help you make an HONEST assessment of what you've done so far. I really can't help you beyond that.

Wait, did you graduate WashU last year?

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Wait, did you graduate WashU last year?

Yes.

 

[crisco654]

Yes.

Ok, so you were in my class. Sorry, I was kinda of stalking your page lol. Saw that you did PEMRAP. Me too.

 

[LizzyM]

Over the past few years, there have been 477 white applicants to MD school with gpa of 2.40-2.79. Twenty of them were admitted to med school and 80% of that group had GPA> 2.59. You may be hard pressed to find one of those 20 to come & tell you how they did it. In some cases these may be non-trads who worked for a decade in another field then did a post-bac-- it is really hard to know.

OP, it is not impossible to go into ortho from ostepathic medicine and that seems to be your best shot. Find a way to retake any course in which you earned less than a B, count on grade replacement to repair your GPA and start getting some work experience and volunteer service to beef up that side of your application.

 

[MDporfavor8888]

i think if you want to do MD, you'll have to do a postbacc, get a 4.0, THEN do a SMP, get a 4.0 to even have a shot. in the mean time you also have to get a very high mcat (35+ equivalent on the new mcat) to compensate for your gpa and have excellent ECs, LORs, etc...

it'd be more helpful if someone who was in a similar situation as yourself could contribute to this thread

 

[crisco654]

Over the past few years, there have been 477 white applicants to MD school with gpa of 2.40-2.79. Twenty of them were admitted to med school and 80% of that group had GPA> 2.59. You may be hard pressed to find one of those 20 to come & tell you how they did it. In some cases these may be non-trads who worked for a decade in another field then did a post-bac-- it is really hard to know.

OP, it is not impossible to go into ortho from ostepathic medicine and that seems to be your best shot. Find a way to retake any course in which you earned less than a B, count on grade replacement to repair your GPA and start getting some work experience and volunteer service to beef up that side of your application.

Ok, thanks for the advice!

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I'd say rack up 30-40 credits of As in a post bacc program and re-evaluate your options after you pull that off. For now, work on your study habits.

 

[crisco654]

Over the past few years, there have been 477 white applicants to MD school with gpa of 2.40-2.79. Twenty of them were admitted to med school and 80% of that group had GPA> 2.59. You may be hard pressed to find one of those 20 to come & tell you how they did it. In some cases these may be non-trads who worked for a decade in another field then did a post-bac-- it is really hard to know.

OP, it is not impossible to go into ortho from ostepathic medicine and that seems to be your best shot. Find a way to retake any course in which you earned less than a B, count on grade replacement to repair your GPA and start getting some work experience and volunteer service to beef up that side of your application.

And I have question. Don't many post-bacs have GPA requirements, or suggested GPAs?

 

[LizzyM]

And I have question. Don't many post-bacs have GPA requirements, or suggested GPAs?

You need to find a school that will let you take classes as a "student at large" or a non-degree student or whatever they call it. You don't need a formal post-bac which may have a minimum gpa for admission. Try your local community college. Start with one class and do that plus a job (any job but a job in a clinical setting would be great). Keep going one at at time until you are sure you can handle more than that. Keep in mind that you may need to pick up some social science courses and biochem if you didn't take them in undergrad as the MCAT is changing and requirements are likely to change, too.

You can care for patients in an ortho practice as a physician's assistant (they scrubbed with my surgeon, did post-op wound care and changed casts, etc) and for that you need to fix your grades plus get at least a year of clinical employment. You could be thinking about that, too, as an option.

 

[crisco654]

You need to find a school that will let you take classes as a "student at large" or a non-degree student or whatever they call it. You don't need a formal post-bac which may have a minimum gpa for admission. Try your local community college. Start with one class and do that plus a job (any job but a job in a clinical setting would be great). Keep going one at at time until you are sure you can handle more than that. Keep in mind that you may need to pick up some social science courses and biochem if you didn't take them in undergrad as the MCAT is changing and requirements are likely to change, too.

You can care for patients in an ortho practice as a physician's assistant (they scrubbed with my surgeon, did post-op wound care and changed casts, etc) and for that you need to fix your grades plus get at least a year of clinical employment. You could be thinking about that, too, as an option.

Ok. And I do have being a PA in the back of my mind as well(my brother is actually attending PA school right now). But thanks for all the advice!

 

[Goro]

100% agree. But really, it's far faster if you simply retake all F/D/C science coursework and go DO.

i think if you want to do MD, you'll have to do a postbacc, get a 4.0, THEN do a SMP, get a 4.0 to even have a shot. in the mean time you also have to get a very high mcat (35+ equivalent on the new mcat) to compensate for your gpa and have excellent ECs, LORs, etc.

My students who go into Ortho (about 5% of each graduating Class) have no trouble matching into either AOA or ACGME ortho programs. it's not that hard to get into. One should not worry about specialty when one has yet to get into medical school.
And yes, I have thought of DO programs, but I have a desire to work in orthopedics, which I know is a hard specialty to get in. And doubly hard if your coming from a DO school, so I would be putting myself at a disadvantage.


The differentials are spectacular rising trends, or post-bac work that fails to rescue the cGPA, having some extraordinary life story or ECs, or veteran status. Oh yeah, being a legacy.

Over the past few years, there have been 477 white applicants to MD school with gpa of 2.40-2.79. Twenty of them were admitted to med school and 80% of that group had GPA> 2.59. You may be hard pressed to find one of those 20 to come & tell you how they did it. In some cases these may be non-trads who worked for a decade in another field then did a post-bac-- it is really hard to know.

 

[crisco654]

100% agree. But really, it's far faster if you simply retake all F/D/C science coursework and go DO.

i think if you want to do MD, you'll have to do a postbacc, get a 4.0, THEN do a SMP, get a 4.0 to even have a shot. in the mean time you also have to get a very high mcat (35+ equivalent on the new mcat) to compensate for your gpa and have excellent ECs, LORs, etc.

My students who go into Ortho (about 5% of each graduating Class) have no trouble matching into either AOA or ACGME ortho programs. it's not that hard to get into. One should not worry about specialty when one has yet to get into medical school.
And yes, I have thought of DO programs, but I have a desire to work in orthopedics, which I know is a hard specialty to get in. And doubly hard if your coming from a DO school, so I would be putting myself at a disadvantage.


The differentials are spectacular rising trends, or post-bac work that fails to rescue the cGPA, having some extraordinary life story or ECs, or veteran status. Oh yeah, being a legacy.

Over the past few years, there have been 477 white applicants to MD school with gpa of 2.40-2.79. Twenty of them were admitted to med school and 80% of that group had GPA> 2.59. You may be hard pressed to find one of those 20 to come & tell you how they did it. In some cases these may be non-trads who worked for a decade in another field then did a post-bac-- it is really hard to know.

Ok thanks. And I completely understand a lot of people go into med school with one specialty one their mind, and end up leaving to go into a whole different specialty.

Also, I read that AOA and ACGME are unifying into one system in 2020. So, I guess that would help too.

 

[Goro]

Did you mean to comment??? Inquire??

 

[crisco654]

Did you mean to comment??? Inquire??

Yeah lol. But I edited it with my comments.

 

[Eppur Si Muove]

The thing that many people are forgetting about SMP and Post-bacc programs is that they still don't overshadow your original undergrad GPA. A 4.0 in post-bacc and smp work still isn't going to make that gpa disappear or be forgotten. Combined with low number of EC activities, I see grade replacement and DO as the only option here. MD is so competitive that I just don't see it as realistic right now. Plus the cost to do those programs would be expensive. You need to get a ton of EC's and kill the MCAT too, like 90+ percentile. If you really want to be a doc this will be a process that takes a couple years.

 

[moop]

You are in no position to pursue an academic field like medicine with that disgusting GPA. If you couldn't fix 4 years of ridiculous study habits, you have no discipline. I don't see the likelihood of that changing any time soon. You're out of school, and college was the best place to develop a sense of discipline. It's one thing to post online and say you're determined, but are you really? Are you really? Don't be a p*ssy and blame it on being discouraged. If you're as undisciplined as you seem, it is not discouragement you need to worry about. Being "angry that you messed up" doesn't do jack ****. pls

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

You are in no position to pursue an academic field like medicine with that disgusting GPA. If you couldn't fix 4 years of ridiculous study habits, you have no discipline. I don't see the likelihood of that changing any time soon. You're out of school, and college was the best place to develop a sense of discipline. It's one thing to post online and say you're determined, but are you really? Are you really? Don't be a p*ssy and blame it on being discouraged. If you're as undisciplined as you seem, it is not discouragement you need to worry about. Being "angry that you messed up" doesn't do jack ****. pls

Goddamn moop, that was totally unnecessary. People f-up in their late teens/early 20s all the time. Admittedly, op has a difficult road ahead of him, but it's unfair to completely doom him.

Or perhaps this tone is your way of instilling drive in people...

 

[Feelgood Inc]

Goddamn moop, that was totally unnecessary. People f-up in their late teens/early 20s all the time. Admittedly, op has a difficult road ahead of him, but it's unfair to completely doom him.

Or perhaps this tone is your way of instilling drive in people...

he's secretly a life coach nbd

 

[Ace Khalifa]

You are in no position to pursue an academic field like medicine with that disgusting GPA. If you couldn't fix 4 years of ridiculous study habits, you have no discipline. I don't see the likelihood of that changing any time soon. You're out of school, and college was the best place to develop a sense of discipline. It's one thing to post online and say you're determined, but are you really? Are you really? Don't be a p*ssy and blame it on being discouraged. If you're as undisciplined as you seem, it is not discouragement you need to worry about. Being "angry that you messed up" doesn't do jack ****. pls

I'll admit that OP should have tried harder in college. I view procrastination as simply a more destructive form of laziness instead of an "alternative study strategy" that some people claim (you know, the ones that are like "I work best under pressure"). But, @moop, your comment was a little over-the-top, don't you think? You gotta cut him some slack, he did go to one of the toughest grade-deflating universities, you know.

 

[Feelgood Inc]

I'll admit that OP should have tried harder in college. I view procrastination as simply a more destructive form of laziness instead of an "alternative study strategy" that some people claim (you know, the ones that are like "I work best under pressure"). But, @moop, your comment was a little over-the-top, don't you think? You gotta cut him some slack, he did go to one of the toughest grade-deflating universities, you know.

doesn't moop go to Princeton for engineering? he's not going to take this part lightly lol

 

[caffeinemia]

LOL at that moop kid being all hard and angry. Totally agree with him though. Kids these days live with the delusion that anything is fixable/achievable if they get worked up or determined enough. That's some feel good bs. There are opportunity costs to everything in life.

 

[moop]

Goddamn moop, that was totally unnecessary. People f-up in their late teens/early 20s all the time. Admittedly, op has a difficult road ahead of him, but it's unfair to completely doom him.

Or perhaps this tone is your way of instilling drive in people...

I'll admit that OP should have tried harder in college. I view procrastination as simply a more destructive form of laziness instead of an "alternative study strategy" that some people claim (you know, the ones that are like "I work best under pressure"). But, @moop, your comment was a little over-the-top, don't you think? You gotta cut him some slack, he did go to one of the toughest grade-deflating universities, you know.

No, I don't think it was over the top or unnecessary. In fact, it might have been the most necessary reminder for OP. As is common with these sort of posts on SDN, nowhere did OP speak to or even acknowledge the massive behavioral changes he needs to undertake that would make any of this even remotely possible. Nothing about study habits or even asking for opinions on what he should change to get himself some damn discipline.

Instead, he's asking about "cost-efficiency" lmao as if any of that matters if the cost is currently ∞ given his record of behavior. The focus is all on where the next step should take him instead of figuring out how to tie his shoelaces before a next step is even possible. On top of that, he's saying he's "discouraged." (That's code for "I have no idea what I'm doing.") Yeah, he should be discouraged. Yet at the end of all this, he's only "angry"? That's it? What's angry gonna do? Like I said, angry doesn't do jack ****. Again, no mention of or query about how to improve his study habits, time management, etc.

It would be irresponsible for me to "cut him some slack" at this point in time. It would be irresponsible for me to pat him on his merry way and advise on what to do next without forcing him to address the fact that he is not ready to take any next steps unless something drastically changes. His time for slack is long gone. 10/10 I will be the d*ckhead over being irresponsible. At least I can hope some sense gets beaten in.

And no. Grade deflation is not an excuse for a 2.5 GPA for FOUR years of college. He had no idea what he was doing academically, and all signs imply that he still doesn't know. He has no right to get any slack. In his current state, medicine (or any other academically-driven profession) is not for him. Period.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

No, I don't think it was over the top or unnecessary. In fact, it might have been the most necessary reminder for OP. As is common with these sort of posts on SDN, nowhere did OP speak to or even acknowledge the massive behavioral changes he needs to undertake that would make any of this even remotely possible. Nothing about study habits or even asking for opinions on what he should change to get himself some damn discipline.

Instead, he's asking about "cost-efficiency" lmao as if any of that matters if the cost is currently ∞ given his record of behavior. The focus is all on where the next step should take him instead of figuring out how to tie his shoelaces before a next step is even possible. On top of that, he's saying he's "discouraged." (That's code for "I have no idea what I'm doing.") Yeah, he should be discouraged. Yet at the end of all this, he's only "angry"? That's it? What's angry gonna do? Like I said, angry doesn't do jack ****. Again, no mention of or query about how to improve his study habits, time management, etc.

It would be irresponsible for me to "cut him some slack" at this point in time. It would be irresponsible for me to pat him on his merry way and advise on what to do next without forcing him to address the fact that he is not ready to take any next steps unless something drastically changes. His time for slack is long gone. 10/10 I will be the d*ckhead over being irresponsible. At least I can hope some sense gets beaten in.

And no. Grade deflation is not an excuse for a 2.5 GPA for FOUR years of college. He had no idea what he was doing academically, and all signs imply that he still doesn't know. He has no right to get any slack. In his current state, medicine (or any other academically-driven profession) is not for him. Period.

Did you not see my first post in this thread?! OP has to improve his study habits and rack up a bunch of As before realistically weighing his options. It's that simple. All that "disgusting gpa" riff raff is not necessary. But perhaps you relish speaking to people like that...

Again, a lot of people mess up when they're young. Obviously, it's better to have you "stuff" together when you're in college, however it doesn't work that way for everyone. Have you ever looked at the non-trad thread and the success stories posted there? There are even people who post in pre-allo who were accepted after miserable starts. And honestly, what's wrong with asking for a more cost-effective option to fix a low gpa?

Listen to yourself, you're assessing a person's behavior based on a couple of internet posts! C'mon moop, you're better than this...

 

[moop]

Did you not see my first post in this thread?! OP has to improve his study habits and rack up a bunch of As before realistically weighing his options. It's that simple. All that "disgusting gpa" riff raff is not necessary. But perhaps you relish speaking to people like that...

Again, a lot of people mess up when they're young. Obviously, it's better to have you "stuff" together when you're in college, however it doesn't work that way for everyone. Have you ever looked at the non-trad thread and the success stories posted there? There are even people who post in pre-allo who were accepted after miserable starts. And honestly, what's wrong with asking for a more cost-effective option to fix a low gpa?

Listen to yourself, you're assessing a person's behavior based on a couple of internet posts! C'mon moop, you're better than this...

Nothing I wrote was meant to say he can't do it. Of course he can, but I can also be a Rhodes Scholar. It's about the relative probability and the longggggggg road before any of that comes to fruition. I don't think taking a harsher stance is necessarily harmful when a lot of people are being encouraging. I don't think all you encouraging folks ITT have painted reality as truthfully as you can, and OP deserves at least that when he comes on here seeking for help. As Goro says, if you can't stomach some basic criticism and internalize it positively, you ain't cut out for medicine.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Nothing I wrote was meant to say he can't do it. Of course he can, but I can also be a Rhodes Scholar. It's about the relative probability and the longggggggg road before any of that comes to fruition. I don't think taking a harsher stance is necessarily harmful when a lot of people are being encouraging. I don't think all you encouraging folks ITT have painted reality as truthfully as you can, and OP deserves at least that when he comes on here seeking for help. As Goro says, if you can't stomach some basic criticism and internalize it positively, you ain't cut out for medicine.

Lol, tell me, where are the roses and blind optimism in my first post???!!!!!!!!????????!!!!!!!!!!
C'mon moop, it's only 2 sentences. It's not cryptic or anything...

I'd say rack up 30-40 credits of As in a post bacc program and re-evaluate your options after you pull that off. For now, work on your study habits.

 

[FutureOncologist]

You stated your one critical flaw already: procrastination. You're not ready for med school if you don't drop the procrastination habit. That GPA is atrocious. Even my huge procrastinator, on-the-fence-about-premed friends didn't fare that badly. Post-bacc or SMP is pretty much required for you at this point. And flawless, I might add, so that you improve your GPA considerably. Did you do too many extracurricular activities in addition to procrastinating on studying? That's not a recipe for success; I've seen too many people at our undergrad fail at something (class, relationships, depression, etc.) because of that. Meet with one of the WUSTL pre-health advisors and let them help you make an HONEST assessment of what you've done so far. I really can't help you beyond that.

This. I'd like to add that Post-Bacc should be done if you can kick the procrastination habit and ace the grades for grade forgiveness (DO route). SMP is your last resort and if you can't get a 3.7+, then you're screwed.

Also Ace, congratulations on your acceptance to Medical School!
EDIT: Seriously consider PA school. Something overlooked by a lot of premeds. Consider seeking advice from your brother on how to accumulate HCE and how to repair your GPA to the point where you're competitive.

 

[moop]

Lol, tell me, where are the roses and blind optimism in my first post???!!!!!!!!????????!!!!!!!!!!
C'mon moop, it's only 2 sentences. It's not cryptic or anything...

Not you specifically, but in general. Calm down

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Also @moop, did you not read Ace's 1st post?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Not you specifically, but in general. Calm down

Lol, I'm perfectly calm. I was hoping you'd calm down

 

[catmama13]

Hey! I've been a frequent sdn stalker for several months, but didn't actually sign up until I saw your post. I am in a very similar situation as you: I graduated last spring with a 2.952 GPA (biology major). I have had countless advisors and family members tell me to give up and settle for a nursing program but I know all I have ever wanted to be was a doc. I was a straight A student in high school (graduated with 4.0+ gpa) but after being so up tight in high school I finally kinda went wild in college and didn't do nearly as well as I know I could have. Between the partying, procrastination and sheer laziness, I ended up destroying my GPA.

After I graduated I decided my only option was to apply for SMPs to work on my GPA before I could even think about applying to medical schools. But I hadn't even taken my MCAT exam so I planned on taking a year off to study for the exam and to work on other aspects of my application before applying to the SMPs. I didn't participate in any EC's during undergrad and spent my time bartending just to get through school. So, while I was studying for my MCAT exam, I volunteered at a local nonprofit and got a job working as a CNA for some clinical experience and to get away from the party lifestyle I became accustomed to in my undergrad that eventually led to my demise. But, I was working 40-50 hours per week even as a CNA and my laziness with studying seemed to linger even after I graduated, so I did not prepare well for my MCAT exam. I actually got my MCAT score today and got a 20. I wasn't even shocked by this and had already accepted the fact that I will have to wait another year to apply to the SMPs so I can retake the damn MCAT exam. But its not the end of the world.

Take it a step at a time. As long as you realize you have a studying problem (procrastination) you must work through that first. Then study and take your MCAT exam, but give yourself plenty of time to study... set up a schedule and allow some leeway but not too much to give in to your procrastination habit. As far as your low GPA... I have actually already spoken with a few program advisors for some SMPs I was looking to apply to, and many have said that as long as you score within their desired range for the MCAT to get accepted (some schools even accept scores as low as 20), they are willing and have accepted students in the past with lower than the required GPA (most are 3.0). A couple schools I have looked at don't even require an MCAT score, but it would help since your GPA is so low. So, #1: get your procrastination under control. Then, study for the MCAT and do decent enough for some SMPs. And then if you can manage the study schedule and still have a couple hours a week to volunteer or shadow, then do it. If not, focus purely on the MCAT and the once thats done work on the other aspects of your application for the SMPs. And like I keep telling myself...if you have to wait another year to get it all done [efficiently], then do it. It'll be worth it in the long run.

 

[FutureOncologist]

Take it a step at a time. As long as you realize you have a studying problem (procrastination) you must work through that first. Then study and take your MCAT exam, but give yourself plenty of time to study... set up a schedule and allow some leeway but not too much to give in to your procrastination habit. As far as your low GPA... I have actually already spoken with a few program advisors for some SMPs I was looking to apply to, and many have said that as long as you score within their desired range for the MCAT to get accepted (some schools even accept scores as low as 20), they are willing and have accepted students in the past with lower than the required GPA (most are 3.0). A couple schools I have looked at don't even require an MCAT score, but it would help since your GPA is so low. So, #1: get your procrastination under control. Then, study for the MCAT and do decent enough for some SMPs. And then if you can manage the study schedule and still have a couple hours a week to volunteer or shadow, then do it. If not, focus purely on the MCAT and the once thats done work on the other aspects of your application for the SMPs. And like I keep telling myself...if you have to wait another year to get it all done [efficiently], then do it. It'll be worth it in the long run.

If you go the SMP route, make sure to choose one that integrates your classes with M1 students. Those are the ones that count the most (but not the only ones that have meaning.)

 

[catmama13]

If you go the SMP route, make sure and choose one that integrates your classes with M1 students. Those are the ones that count the most (but not the only ones that have meaning.)

Oh yeah, duh. Thanks, I forgot to mention that! Several programs offer integration into first year medical school courses. Cadaver labs too.