Low GPA Help: student athlete, engineering major, software developer

[ltwtrower]

Looking for some help on how to approach med school from my current position:

Age: 28
Undergrad cumulative GPA: 2.3
Undergrad major: Biological Systems Engineering
Undergrad minors: Engineering for Energy Sustainability, Technical Communication, Environmental Studies

Undergrad extracurriculars:

• Rowing:
  • Two-time captain of varsity team captain
  • Club (4), collegiate (1), and elite (1) national championship titles (6 total)
  • Head of the Charles winner
  • USA Under-23 World Championships trials winner
  • USA Under-23 World Championships
  • Peer leader in the Life Skills Academy for incoming freshman student-athletes
  • Student Athlete Advisory Committee
• Engineering:
  • Collegiate engineering magazine (graphic design, web design, and photography)
  • Environmental engineering research lab assistant
  • Two engineering internships (environmental and software)
  • Student software developer at the university

Since undergrad:

• Volunteer rowing coach
• Took a couple software engineering classes at HES
• Attended software development bootcamp (so I could get a job to pay those loans)
• Working as a software developer
  • Previously at a startup acquired by Google
  • Contract/consulting work
  • Currently full-time at another startup

My GPA is largely due to trying to get an engineering degree, three minors, and make the national team in rowing. I also had a couple of injuries/illness and a surgery throughout my undergrad years. 2.3 is pretty low, though.

I know there are several routes I could take -- SMP, formal post-bac, DIY post-bac. And I need to do really well on the MCAT, as well as shadow a few doctors.

Here are my questions:
1. What are the best SMP/MS/post-bac programs that will give me the best shot at getting into a med school?
2. What's the best way to spend my time until I get into a post-bac program? Should I volunteer (where)? Do research (what kind)? I'm currently in Boston (als0, single, so very flexible with location/time).

I am open to going anywhere and getting any type of experience. I would like to do this as efficiently as possible, though I know it's going to be a long uphill battle with my GPA.

Any and all advice is welcome and appreciated.

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[Ad2b]

How long ago did you graduate?

 

[ltwtrower]

How long ago did you graduate?

My 4th year was 2010 (4th and last year of rowing eligibility). I got in a bike accident during my fifth year and had to take incompletes in all of my classes. The next semester, I was taking 31 credits, including my senior capstone course, and interning at a startup. I walked for graduation in 2011. I spent 2012 and 2013 working, but my transcripts say my official graduation date was 2013, since I took a course in the spring that year.

I informally studied software engineering and have been working full-time since then.

 

[Ad2b]

Here's why I ask:

Officially, you've only been out of school for 2 years. On the application for AMCAS, there won't be a significant break between ugrad and what you do now. With that GPA, the more distance between "it" and now the better.

Have you taken your pre-reqs? gen chem, bio, orgo, physics? I presume, yes given your ugrad degree? how long since taking them?

 

[GreenDuck12]

To your questions above, I would not think that a formal post-bac program is going to be very useful to you. The strong post-bac programs, like goucher and bryn mawr, only accept students that have a track record of high academic achievement (this is how they maintain their report 95%+ acceptance rate. Additionally, an SMP will not be useful right now as even if you make it through the program with shining colors, your GPA is significantly below the 25% average for osteopathic programs (let alone MD programs). Unfortunately, at this moment, you are not going to be competitive applicant for most (if any) medical programs.

Heres the good news: you can get into medical school provided you are willing to dedicate the time and resources necessary to become competitive. First step, research osteopathic schools policy on grade replacement. Then retake all F/D/C-/C coursework that you can. This will significantly increase your GPA as your low grades are replaced with higher ones. Next, take all pre med classes and do very well. Your GPA screams "I cannot handle the rigors of medical school." The only way to overcome this is to do very well with a science heavy course load (good news is that HES offers a lot of courses that can help, but they are challenging). Many semesters of sustained high academic achievement can convince an adcom that you can handle the rigors of medical school. Next, you will need to take the MCAT. You will need to do well on the MCAT. Only after you have gotten your GPA to a higher range and have many semesters of high academic achievement, should you worry about an SMP. Straight up, it is going to take years for you to put together a strong application for osteopathic schools. Remember, spots in medical programs are few and over 50% of applicants each year do not matriculate. You have to respect your competition.

 

[ltwtrower]

Here's why I ask:

Officially, you've only been out of school for 2 years. On the application for AMCAS, there won't be a significant break between ugrad and what you do now. With that GPA, the more distance between "it" and now the better.

Have you taken your pre-reqs? gen chem, bio, orgo, physics? I presume, yes given your ugrad degree? how long since taking them?

 

[ltwtrower]

Actually, I haven't taken bio or orgo. It has been quite a while for the others, as you can see. Many of my poor grades where either obscure engineering classes. In the case that I got an F, it was probably during one of the semesters I was dealing with a broken arm (with surgery), a serious bike accident, or severe iron deficiency.

Unfortunately, with D-1 athletics, you have to stay in a certain number of classes to remain eligible. You also have to pass a certain amount of a degree per year. So, I had no opportunity to take time off or switch majors. At the time, I just wanted an engineering degree and to make the national team. I achieved that goal, but I might have to pay for it now..

Which classes do I need to retake? Are they going to care about all these obscure non-medical related civil/environmental engineering courses?
I have 430.5 GPA points, and 187 credits.

I'm only listing the courses I got less than a B in:
Course, Description, Term, Grade, Credits
MATH 171, Calc with Algebra & Trig I, Fall 2006-2007, D, 5
ENVIR ST 127, Physical Systems of Envr, Spring 2006-2007, C, 5
MATH 217, Calc with Algebra & Trig II, Spring 2006-2007, D, 5
PSYCH 202, Introduction to Psychology, Summer 2007, C, 3
CHEM 104, General Chemistry, Fall 2007-2008, C, 5
ECON 101, Principles-Microeconomics, Fall 2007-2008, C, 4
I SY E 313, Engineerng Economc Analysis, Fall 2007-2008, BC, 3
CIV ENGR 320, Environmental Engineering, Spring 2007-2008, BC, 3
MATH 221, CalculusAnalytic Geometry, Spring 2007-2008, C, 5
MATH 222, CalculusAnalytic Geometry, Summer 2008, C, 5
E M A 201, Statics, Fall 2008-2009, C, 3
M E 170, Civil Engineering Graphics, Fall 2008-2009, BC, 2
MATH 234, Calc--Functns of Variables, Fall 2008-2009, C, 3
MATH 319, Tech-Ordinary Diff Equation, Fall 2008-2009, F, 3
BSE 375, Special Topics (Biological Concepts for Engineers), Spring 2008-2009, BC, 3
E M A 202, Dynamics, Spring 2008-2009, C, 3
E M A 303, Mechanics of Materials, Spring 2008-2009, D, 3
E M A 307, Mechanics of Materials Lab, Spring 2008-2009, BC, 1
ENVIR ST 324, Soils and Envrnmtl Quality, Summer 2009, F, 3
CIV ENGR 370, Transportation Engineering, Fall 2009-2010, F, 3
ENVIR ST 113, Envr St-Humanistic Perspctv, Fall 2009-2010, BC, 3
CIV ENGR 322, Environmentl Engr Processes, Spring 2009-2010, F, 3
CIV ENGR 423, Air Pollutn MeasurmntCntrl, Spring 2009-2010, C, 3
E P D 690, Special Topics in E P D (Core Competencies of Leadershp), Spring 2009-2010, D, 1
PHYSICS 202, General Physics, Spring 2009-2010, C, 5
BSE 372, On-Site Waste Water Treatment, Fall 2010-2011, C, 2
CIV ENGR 291, Prob Solv Using Cmptr Tools, Fall 2010-2011, F, 3
BSE 365, MeasrmtInstrumntn-Biol Sys, Spring 2010-2011, F, 3
BSE 472, Sedmnt & Bio-Nutr EngrMgmt, Spring 2010-2011, C, 3
BSE 571, Small Watershed Engineering, Spring 2010-2011, D, 3
ENVIR ST 368, "Envr Law, Toxic SubstConsv", Spring 2010-2011, BC, 2
M E 361, Thermodynamics, Summer 2011, C, 3
BSE 473, IrrigatnDrainage Sys Dsgn, Fall 2011-2012, C, 2
COMP SCI 310, Prob Solvng Using Computers, Fall 2011-2012, D, 3
M E 363, Fluid Dynamics, Fall 2011-2012, C, 3
E C E 376, ElectriclElectronc Circuit, Spring 2012-2013, C, 3



I should also add that I took a couple software engineering courses at HES and got As in them.

 

[Labrat07]

Most of his classes are non science. This is a really tough call. From my experience (not that much), you need to take science classes. I'm not really sure retaking his non science classes would help. You need advice from more experience poster @gyngyn @Goro ..

Either way, it'll be a long road ahead of you. Here's an estimate of timeline. I was 2.6 science major. Take me 4 years. 2 classes per semester. I'm applying next year. So 5 years total. For you, I'd guess longer than that with 187 credits, full time work.. Are you sure you want to do this?

 

[GreenDuck12]

Interesting. I'm not sure repeating all of those courses is going to be helpful or practical. The rationale behind the retake is that right now, your GPA is sufficiently low that you will be auto-rejected once a DO school has your application. Even with an extremely high MCAT, numbers wise, you are too risky. The obvious way around the auto-rejection is to raise your GPA. Adding additional credits and quality points has a diminishing return after each class (it is hard to raise a low GPA through more coursework). It is much easier to raise a low GPA through repeating failed courses. Based on the above, you have about 6 classes with a 0.0 GPA (F) and 6 classes with a 1.0 GPA (D).

MATH 171, Calc with Algebra & Trig I, Fall 2006-2007, D, 5
ENVIR ST 127, Physical Systems of Envr, Spring 2006-2007, C, 5
MATH 217, Calc with Algebra & Trig II, Spring 2006-2007, D, 5
PSYCH 202, Introduction to Psychology, Summer 2007, C, 3
CHEM 104, General Chemistry, Fall 2007-2008, C, 5
ECON 101, Principles-Microeconomics, Fall 2007-2008, C, 4
I SY E 313, Engineerng Economc Analysis, Fall 2007-2008, BC, 3
CIV ENGR 320, Environmental Engineering, Spring 2007-2008, BC, 3
MATH 221, CalculusAnalytic Geometry, Spring 2007-2008, C, 5
MATH 222, CalculusAnalytic Geometry, Summer 2008, C, 5
E M A 201, Statics, Fall 2008-2009, C, 3
M E 170, Civil Engineering Graphics, Fall 2008-2009, BC, 2
MATH 234, Calc--Functns of Variables, Fall 2008-2009, C, 3
MATH 319, Tech-Ordinary Diff Equation, Fall 2008-2009, F, 3
BSE 375, Special Topics (Biological Concepts for Engineers), Spring 2008-2009, BC, 3
E M A 202, Dynamics, Spring 2008-2009, C, 3
E M A 303, Mechanics of Materials, Spring 2008-2009, D, 3
E M A 307, Mechanics of Materials Lab, Spring 2008-2009, BC, 1
ENVIR ST 324, Soils and Envrnmtl Quality, Summer 2009, F, 3
CIV ENGR 370, Transportation Engineering, Fall 2009-2010, F, 3
ENVIR ST 113, Envr St-Humanistic Perspctv, Fall 2009-2010, BC, 3
CIV ENGR 322, Environmentl Engr Processes, Spring 2009-2010, F, 3
CIV ENGR 423, Air Pollutn MeasurmntCntrl, Spring 2009-2010, C, 3
E P D 690, Special Topics in E P D (Core Competencies of Leadershp), Spring 2009-2010, D, 1
PHYSICS 202, General Physics, Spring 2009-2010, C, 5
BSE 372, On-Site Waste Water Treatment, Fall 2010-2011, C, 2
CIV ENGR 291, Prob Solv Using Cmptr Tools, Fall 2010-2011, F, 3
BSE 365, MeasrmtInstrumntn-Biol Sys, Spring 2010-2011, F, 3
BSE 472, Sedmnt & Bio-Nutr EngrMgmt, Spring 2010-2011, C, 3
BSE 571, Small Watershed Engineering, Spring 2010-2011, D, 3
ENVIR ST 368, "Envr Law, Toxic SubstConsv", Spring 2010-2011, BC, 2
M E 361, Thermodynamics, Summer 2011, C, 3
BSE 473, IrrigatnDrainage Sys Dsgn, Fall 2011-2012, C, 2
COMP SCI 310, Prob Solvng Using Computers, Fall 2011-2012, D, 3
M E 363, Fluid Dynamics, Fall 2011-2012, C, 3
E C E 376, ElectriclElectronc Circuit, Spring 2012-2013, C, 3


If you retook all F classes with an A, that would increase your quality points by 72, yielding a GPA of 2.68. If you also retook all D classes, that would increase your quality points by 57, yielding a GPA of 2.98. After 24 credits of gen chem, bio, and orgo, your GPA would be a 3.1.

 

[Ad2b]

Okay, so let's skip repeating any classes and your low GPA.

Let's start fresh. Pretend you've never taken a college course before; the past is the past. As Rafiki says in the Lion King, it's in the past, you can't change it!

Go forward, you need:

Gen Chem 2
Orgo 1 + lab
Biochem
Physics 2 + lab
Orgo 2 (possibly, some med schools are dropping this class in favor of biochem)

Get A's in those.

Then add in classes like:

genetics
cell bio
cell metabolism
physiology
etc etc etc

Get A's in those.

Then take the MCAT and shoot for 515+ ...

Then apply.

See what you're not being told is this:

The application by AMCAS calculates your ugrad GPA (the 2.3 or w/e it is), then it gives a post-bacc GPA, and a BCPM GPA.

Your post-bacc is going to be a 4.0 if you do the suggested above.

That plus 515+ MCAT score, and EC's, and volunteering and shadowing (seriously need a lot of this) --- you may be more competitive than you are being led to believe.

My caution flag (and it's a big one): I know lots of of D-1 athletes who were in football, basketball, and hockey who got into med school with a 3.8+ GPA in the sciences. That you were a D-1 athlete is not going to "make excuses" for your ugrad GPA. And by no means, am I saying you do the above that you are shoe-in.

Finally, getting A's in those classes above requires a lot. It requires a lot of time, focus and energy. The MCAT is not a memorizable test. You'd better have known your core classes well, studied hard and then figured how to take the MCAT.

As I've said, my ugrad GPA is lower than yours but also it is 30 years old, my son died while I was in undergrad, my parents disowned me.... and I was a D-1 athlete. (Well, not so much after I got preggers!!! )

 

[Goro]

OP, I can't add much tot he excellent advice you've been given. For ECs in your gap year, you ned to shadow doctors, do patient contact volunteering, and non-clinical service for others.

 

[ltwtrower]

What if I did a 2nd bachelor's degree? Is that a good option?

 

[GreenDuck12]

A second bachelors degree is a strategy that others have used though I am not sure to what degree of success. You could pursue a second degree with an emphasis on science classes (pre-med) and show that you can achieve at a high level. However, even if you matched every credit you already earned with an A, your GPA would still only increase to around a 3.1-3.2. You are already looking at two years of part time classes with the pre-med coursework. If you added the courses that Ad2b listed above and do well in them, you can show you are capable of high academic achievement. But, if you are interested in adding another degree to your list, you could go for it. You may want to do more research before making that decision.

Ad2b is right, your post-bac classes are all calculated together. Assuming you do well in future classes, adcoms will see a substantial change in your 1st, 2nd,3rd, and 4th year gpa when compared to your post bac. Is this difference enough to convince an adcom? I honestly have no idea and Ad2b doesn't either. My guess is that an application that falls significantly outside the range of "acceptable" GPAs and MCAT scores will not get examined very closely and thus Ad2b's point about post-bac gpa is moot (I do have experience screening applications for an organization that receives over 50,000 applications annually and accepts fewer than 12%). Does that mean you should ignore the point? Absolutely not.

There are two strategies being outlined here: 1) retake classes to increase gpa and apply to osteopathic schools or 2) the past is the past, focus on doing well in all classes and do well on the MCAT in hopes that it will convince an adcom of your abilities. I honestly cannot tell you which one is guaranteed to work. You're going to have to decide which one you want to try and then adjust as you go. Bear in mind that whichever you choose is going to be a long difficult road.

 

[Ad2b]

I would not waste your time trying to get the old GPA up. It's set in stone. Do the pre-reqs now, get As, take the MCAT, get a 515+ and apply.

There's really not much more you can do. To Green Duck's point: I do not know what the adcoms at all allopathic schools will, or will not, do regarding an old, ugly GPA.

I just know that the adcoms I do know what they have told me regarding ME and my application. We are not similar in any way (other than sub@#$ GPA) but, I use that as my starting point... and then add in other people who have been similarly situated as you.

As Green Duck pointed out, proving you've turned a major corner is not easy. Mostly FUN but definitely not easy.