low gpa, ok mcat, post-military

[macunga]

.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted480308]

Gpa wise MD is almost completely dead...with some strategic (lowest grade) retakes and the DO grade replacement policy you can be swinging in no time. Your mcat shows you are smart enough to understand/achieve this....only an A is good wnough from now on. Slow your pace enough to get an A....no Bs

 

[macunga]

.

 

[Goro]

First off, many thanks to you for your service to our country.

I suggest not taking the new MCAT, unless you are going to take or retake the proper coursework for it. And for God's sake do NOT take a high stakes, career deciding exam until you're 100% ready for it! I have Adcom colleagues who reject people for poor choice making.

DIY post-bacs are cheaper, but I recommend a SMP. they're a dime a dozen and you should be able to find one, especially if you're willing to relocate. Ideally, you should do your SMP at a med school, because they're the backdoor in.

You will need to ace said postbac/SMP (3.6+ GPA) and do well on MCAT. Being a vet cuts you some slack, but you still need to show us that you can handle med school.

Hi folks. So to get the numbers out of the way:
I have a 2.86 gpa. 34 mcat. I took the old one blind in 2014, and it was a horribly long adventure. I intend on taking it again and now I have to adjust for the 2015 changes. I'm not exactly sure how the old mcat score compares as a predictor of the new mcat.

I have an ochem degree from 2009. Being a lazy idiot, I did well in only the synthesis related coursework. But it got me a job, so hey. Then I left said job and kicked around the military as a combat medic for the last 3 years (one year left). Promoted quickly. One 10 month deployment.

And I want to go back, to somewhere austere, and perform medical care. I invested wisely so I have cash to cover tuition. And luckily I have the GI Bill in my back pocket. I intend on taking a gap year and doing what needs to be done, and also undergoing some rehabilitation for accumulated injuries.

I'm in need of guidance. So I'm definitely going to need some post-bacc/SMP sort of experience. Any pointers? I'm not sure where to start. I know I have to raise my GPA. I've been eyeballing some SMPs, but most seem to have 3.0 cutoffs. I have looked at EVMS, and it seems like I should apply there. I know if I get into a SMP program, I'll do well. The military life grinded out my lack of diligence.

Another problem is with letters of rec. Going to a larger state school, I don't have too many connections. I know I can get letters from my military chain of command, and my senior medical officer, who is a PA. Will that normally suffice?

Thank you folks in advance. I will peep in and out of here. The holidays make me anxious.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Being a military vet changes things certainly.

Here is how I might go about this and the plan I might make and follow if I were you

1) Do some DIY post-bacc work. Get the GPA above 3.0
2) Apply as broadly as possible. A military vet with a 3.05/34 could definitely have a chance at finding an MD school willing to take them on. Keep in mind there are some MD schools like ETSU and Alabama from what I've heard that will consider military vets In-state for that schools purposes and you will be competing with IS applicants for an IS spot. So you have lots of benefits being a military vet. LizzyM estimates its a boost of 5 LizzyM points. Gyngyn has said its like adding 5 points to your MCAT. So the discussion is different here than your typical sub 3.0 34 MCAT applicant.

So apply to MD programs while your MCAT score is still valid and once your GPA is above a 3.0. From here

3) If you dont get into an MD school you have a couple options.

a) do an SMP if you are gunning for the MD. A 3.0/34 can get you into a good SMP program. Note the key is to do a good SMP program, they arent "dime a dozen". You want one with a really good track record of getting a large number of its grads into US MD schools. Otherwise its not worth the risk. An example of a good one is Cincinnati. An example of one you want to avoid is Drexel.
b) If you get shut out from MD and dont want to do an SMP, apply DO. 3.0/34 military vet will get you noticed at DO schools, particularly if you retake a couple C's or lower and boost the DO GPA anymore.

Do not retake an unexpired 34. That will only hurt you and make things more difficult for yourself. Again part of this is all about how "risk averse" you are. If you want to take a risk, forget DIY post bacc work and go straight for an SMP if you get into a good one. But again, its a risk. For an SMP to be worth it you are probably looking at having to beat out over 50-60% of MS1's on their exams. That's incredibly difficult. Me personally,, I would do all I could to avoid an SMP if I didnt need one. With a 34 MCAT and military status you have a lot of things going for you that others in your shoes might not. Take advantage of them.

 

[macunga]

.

 

[Xolotlan]

You could take physiology, cell biology, genetics, anatomy, psychology without being part of a program. Just make sure it's a 4year university (not a tech school). They will help with your grades and prep your for retaking them MCAT if you eventually need to.

 

[68PGunner]

As an injured vet myself, your first priority is to get all your injuries from the war properly documented so that you can get at least a 20% va rating. With that condition in your deck, you can get your full smp and medical school tuitions paid for by voc rehab with e5 bah for the rest of the time that you're in school.

 

[68PGunner]

I'm not too risk averse. But I understand there's really no telling how well I'll do in a SMP. Oh... how ambivalence is tugging at my sleeve. However, with GPA cutoffs, the only SMPs I could possibly apply to are EVMS, Drexel, Rush, SIU, Wayne State, VCU, and Rosalind Franklin.

I think for now I'll take classes just to raise my GPA. Since I can finish two or three courses until I get out. Which brings these questions, what kind of coursework should I be pursuing to raise my current GPA to around slightly above or at 3.0? Do I retake courses I did poorly on - E&M, PChem, and a few biochem courses? They weren't that hard in hindsight, I was just being dumb.

I have two internships from college. Would you folks recommend working/volunteering as an ER Tech during my gap year? I'm an EMT-I.

Thanks folks for your advice. Much appreciated. I'll have to mull things over a beer tonight and call the lady.

If you manage to get voc rehab approved, I recommend going to school full time for gpa repair and spend 10 hours a week doing research with a professor. With a 3.6 smp vet status research time medical experience and a good mcat, the sky is the limit for you.

Tuition is free for you as well as provided living expense throughout your smp and medical school years.

 

[Seattle Mariners Fan]

I'm not too risk averse. But I understand there's really no telling how well I'll do in a SMP. Oh... how ambivalence is tugging at my sleeve. However, with GPA cutoffs, the only SMPs I could possibly apply to are EVMS, Drexel, Rush, SIU, Wayne State, VCU, and Rosalind Franklin.

I think for now I'll take classes just to raise my GPA. Since I can finish two or three courses until I get out. Which brings these questions, what kind of coursework should I be pursuing to raise my current GPA to around slightly above or at 3.0? Do I retake courses I did poorly on - E&M, PChem, and a few biochem courses? They weren't that hard in hindsight, I was just being dumb.

MD average matriculant cGPA is 3.7, 3.65 for sGPA. Higher for whites and asians and people excess 30.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstablea24-4.pdf

A 34 on the MCAT with a 2.8 GPA suggests a lot of unrealized academic potential, but overcoming some of the past difficulties through conventional channels may represent a struggle because of the number of credits it will take to bring your cGPA to competitive ranges.

I think that's why others are suggesting SMP.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I'm not too risk averse. But I understand there's really no telling how well I'll do in a SMP. Oh... how ambivalence is tugging at my sleeve. However, with GPA cutoffs, the only SMPs I could possibly apply to are EVMS, Drexel, Rush, SIU, Wayne State, VCU, and Rosalind Franklin.

I think for now I'll take classes just to raise my GPA. Since I can finish two or three courses until I get out. Which brings these questions, what kind of coursework should I be pursuing to raise my current GPA to around slightly above or at 3.0? Do I retake courses I did poorly on - E&M, PChem, and a few biochem courses? They weren't that hard in hindsight, I was just being dumb.

I have two internships from college. Would you folks recommend working/volunteering as an ER Tech during my gap year? I'm an EMT-I.

Thanks folks for your advice. Much appreciated. I'll have to mull things over a beer tonight and call the lady.

Historically 1/4 ORM/whites with a 2.8/34 gain acceptances. You have the type of strong unique characteristic(military status) that gives you a chance to be in that 25%. I personally wouldn't pursue an SMP yet; I think it's worth an application cycle first with a 3.0+/34 and military status and seeing what happens. You are a rather unique situation.

My best advice is take upper level bio coursework that resembles med school type curriculum; classes like immunology, neuro, histology, biochem, microbio etc. You can retake some courses for DO purposes, but that wont really affect the MD GPA calculations.

An ER Tech is a good job to get clinical experience. But again your top priority has to be getting your GPA above 3.0, no EC should compromise that.

As for SMPs I highly recommend doing alot of research into each individual program before partaking in one. I'll give you some links that have really good info about them and talk about the risks asssociated with them; I strongly suggest going through all the posts in these threads(seriously spend alot of time on it) and doing research on your own to make your own decision about whether they are worth the risk, how well you have to do in an SMP etc.

This is for EVMS
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/evms.273697/page-38

This is for Toledo: in particular I recommend reading page 3-6.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/university-of-toledo-msbs-2015-2016-smp.1114197/

This is for Rosalidn Franklin
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/rosalind-franklin-bms-2015-2016.1095156/

This is for Cincinnati
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ncinnati-m-s-in-physiology-2015-2016.1104970/
https://med.uc.edu/msinphysiology/alumni/meet-the-class-of-2014

You can find many more links for each individual SMP. This is just to get you started.

 

[darknecrosforte]

Former Marine with slightly below avg stats for MD applicants who got into a CA DO school as a CA resident, which is considered relatively difficult apparently. I feel that my ability to translate my experience effectively to people who probably have absolutely no idea of what the military was like (jargon, deployments, job descriptions, medals, etc.) helped me to beat out many highly qualified applicants. Feel free to PM me for help on DO schools and writing if you need help. You've got a great shot at this.

 

[macunga]

.

 

[alpinism]

Well how's your science GPA?

But, yes. Take a bunch of science courses to raise your GPA. Neuroscience, physiology, anatomy, genetics, cell biology, microbiology, virology, parasitology, etc...

 

[esob]

As an injured vet myself, your first priority is to get all your injuries from the war properly documented so that you can get at least a 20% va rating. With that condition in your deck, you can get your full smp and medical school tuitions paid for by voc rehab with e5 bah for the rest of the time that you're in school.

That's not entirely true. For starters, voc rehab approval is far from guaranteed. If you get a bad initial counselor you can get denied and the appeals process can last years. Second, even if you get approved, you are limited to 48 months of voc rehab services (and this eats your GI bill concurrently, you can't use voc rehab then use your GI bill). There are some scenarios where they can extend the 48 month period but it's only in the case of a "Severe Employment Handicap" and getting them to approve that is like pulling teeth since the standards are so high that pretty much anyone who can actually meet them, will in turn get denied services because they are too disabled to be employed. Don't get me wrong, it can be done with voc rehab (undergrad + graduate school) but it is the exception rather than the rule. Their stated goal is "entry level employment" so you have to be a good salesman to make the case that the only "entry level employment" that your service connected disability left you able to perform is one of the most difficult jobs available (being a physician). There's a really helpful group on facebook if you are interested in learning more about voc rehab however and everyone is very helpful if you have questions.

 

[macunga]

.

 

[alpinism]

Yeah just take science courses then.

 

[xffan624]

Torn meniscus, popped my acromioclavicular in my right shoulder, and back issues. Is that enough to rate 20%. I haven't gone to see the doc that does the physical yet, but I need to schedule an appointment when I get back after the holidays.

So you folks would suggest some advanced coursework in bio, neuro, A&P? I'll only need about 36 hours to get my GPA to 3.02. So... about three courses a quarter for the duration of a year.

Should be able to get at least 20% for that, assuming there's documentation from the military of the injuries and some lasting effects (i.e pain and/or reduce range of motion)

 

[68PGunner]

Torn meniscus, popped my acromioclavicular in my right shoulder, and back issues. Is that enough to rate 20%. I haven't gone to see the doc that does the physical yet, but I need to schedule an appointment when I get back after the holidays.

So you folks would suggest some advanced coursework in bio, neuro, A&P? I'll only need about 36 hours to get my GPA to 3.02. So... about three courses a quarter for the duration of a year.

The meniscus could be 10-20% if there isn't any nerve damage. If there's nerve damage, it's another 10-60% depending on the severity of the nerve damage. The right shoulder could range from 0-20% depending on your range of motion. The back could be 10-40% depending on your range of motion.

 

[68PGunner]

That's not entirely true. For starters, voc rehab approval is far from guaranteed. If you get a bad initial counselor you can get denied and the appeals process can last years. Second, even if you get approved, you are limited to 48 months of voc rehab services (and this eats your GI bill concurrently, you can't use voc rehab then use your GI bill). There are some scenarios where they can extend the 48 month period but it's only in the case of a "Severe Employment Handicap" and getting them to approve that is like pulling teeth since the standards are so high that pretty much anyone who can actually meet them, will in turn get denied services because they are too disabled to be employed. Don't get me wrong, it can be done with voc rehab (undergrad + graduate school) but it is the exception rather than the rule. Their stated goal is "entry level employment" so you have to be a good salesman to make the case that the only "entry level employment" that your service connected disability left you able to perform is one of the most difficult jobs available (being a physician). There's a really helpful group on facebook if you are interested in learning more about voc rehab however and everyone is very helpful if you have questions.

I don't know when you went through MEB. However, there are rehab voc counselors at bases allowing soldiers to apply for rehab voc while still in active duty. I've heard that from a counselor that they can set you squared away that rehab voc will kick in the day after you're medically retired. In the new IDES process, soldiers are encouraged to apply for rehab voc early in the MEB process now. Before, you have to be a veteran before they look at you. This is no longer the case.

 

[68PGunner]

That's not entirely true. For starters, voc rehab approval is far from guaranteed. If you get a bad initial counselor you can get denied and the appeals process can last years. Second, even if you get approved, you are limited to 48 months of voc rehab services (and this eats your GI bill concurrently, you can't use voc rehab then use your GI bill). There are some scenarios where they can extend the 48 month period but it's only in the case of a "Severe Employment Handicap" and getting them to approve that is like pulling teeth since the standards are so high that pretty much anyone who can actually meet them, will in turn get denied services because they are too disabled to be employed. Don't get me wrong, it can be done with voc rehab (undergrad + graduate school) but it is the exception rather than the rule. Their stated goal is "entry level employment" so you have to be a good salesman to make the case that the only "entry level employment" that your service connected disability left you able to perform is one of the most difficult jobs available (being a physician). There's a really helpful group on facebook if you are interested in learning more about voc rehab however and everyone is very helpful if you have questions.

I think that it will work in his case. His goal is to become a physician. The SMP can be categorized as prereqs for his medical school application. I have used TA to take premed classes for the same reason. Unless you're working in the OR, the job of a physician is one of the least physically demanding one out there.

 

[xffan624]

I don't know when you went through MEB. However, there are rehab voc counselors at bases allowing soldiers to apply for rehab voc while still in active duty. I've heard that from a counselor that they can set you squared away that rehab voc will kick in the day after you're medically retired. In the new IDES process, soldiers are encouraged to apply for rehab voc early in the MEB process now. Before, you have to be a veteran before they look at you. This is no longer the case.

Is OP being medically retired (unclear in the post)? Many of the people having difficulty are people who are simply got out with some percentage of disability rather than go through the MEB process.

 

[macunga]

.

 

[xffan624]

Just leaving the service, as my contract will expire. I've seen enough, and I'm kinda broken. I can still do my job, so I just hang in there for now. I'll have to continue through the ACAP appointments. I have not really been paying attention at all to the lectures. I'm not overly concerned if I get voc rehab or not, I'll just see if I can snag it. It'll be the cherry on top.

Good attitude to have. That was mine. Just go through all the hoops to get it. Come with all the facts and present a strong case for why you qualify. Make sure you know your rights. In the end, it's still up to the VA to approve it. You can also use some of the post 9/11 GI bill and then apply for voc rehab later. The 48 months of voc rehab starts your benefits anew and you can still qualify for the full BAH as long as you have some post 9/11 bill remaining.

 

[esob]

Good attitude to have. That was mine. Just go through all the hoops to get it. Come with all the facts and present a strong case for why you qualify. Make sure you know your rights. In the end, it's still up to the VA to approve it. You can also use some of the post 9/11 GI bill and then apply for voc rehab later. The 48 months of voc rehab starts your benefits anew and you can still qualify for the full BAH as long as you have some post 9/11 bill remaining.

Actually, that's incorrect. You have 48 months max education benefits unless you have a severe employment handicap. Specifically, 38 CFR §21.4020 states, “The aggregate period for which any person may receive assistance under two or more of the following laws may not exceed 48 months.”

Here's a link to a really good blog entry about it from Ben Krause, who is widely considered to be one of the best authorities on the subject of voc rehab.
http://www.disabledveterans.org/2013/10/30/va-voc-rehab-take-away-gi-bill/

Also here's is a link to the actual CFR if you want to read it: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/38/21.4020 (Post 9/11 is chapter 33 in case you were wondering)

 

[xffan624]

Actually, that's incorrect. You have 48 months max education benefits unless you have a severe employment handicap. Specifically, 38 CFR §21.4020 states, “The aggregate period for which any person may receive assistance under two or more of the following laws may not exceed 48 months.”

Here's a link to a really good blog entry about it from Ben Krause, who is widely considered to be one of the best authorities on the subject of voc rehab.
http://www.disabledveterans.org/2013/10/30/va-voc-rehab-take-away-gi-bill/

Also here's is a link to the actual CFR if you want to read it: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/38/21.4020 (Post 9/11 is chapter 33 in case you were wondering)

Ok. Guess you're right. mea culpa. Looked at my last voc rehab letter and it says I have 22 months remaining of benefits (mid-Ms3 currently). My MS1 I started with the GI bill and switched over. I should have more if it didn't count the Ms1 year.

 

[esob]

I wonder how voc rehab would affect months transfered to dependants

My guess is that it would be the same limit. I've never known the VA to give any more than they minimally have to, including to dependents, lol.

Ok. Guess you're right. mea culpa. Looked at my last voc rehab letter and it says I have 22 months remaining of benefits (mid-Ms3 currently). My MS1 I started with the GI bill and switched over. I should have more if it didn't count the Ms1 year.

That's actually really amazing you got them to approve you for med school at all. Its nice to see one of the good guys win once in a while

 

[macunga]

.

 

[AlphaEta251]

Hi folks. So to get the numbers out of the way:
I have a 2.86 gpa. 34 mcat. I took the old one blind in 2014, and it was a horribly long adventure. I intend on taking it again and now I have to adjust for the 2015 changes. I'm not exactly sure how the old mcat score compares as a predictor of the new mcat.

I have an ochem degree from 2009. Being a lazy idiot, I did well in only the synthesis related coursework. But it got me a job, so hey. Then I left said job and kicked around the military as a combat medic for the last 3 years (one year left). Promoted quickly. One 10 month deployment.

And I want to go back, to somewhere austere, and perform medical care. I invested wisely so I have cash to cover tuition. And luckily I have the GI Bill in my back pocket. I intend on taking a gap year and doing what needs to be done, and also undergoing some rehabilitation for accumulated injuries.

I'm in need of guidance. So I'm definitely going to need some post-bacc/SMP sort of experience. Any pointers? I'm not sure where to start. I know I have to raise my GPA. I've been eyeballing some SMPs, but most seem to have 3.0 cutoffs. I have looked at EVMS, and it seems like I should apply there. I know if I get into a SMP program, I'll do well. The military life grinded out my lack of diligence.

Another problem is with letters of rec. Going to a larger state school, I don't have too many connections. I know I can get letters from my military chain of command, and my senior medical officer, who is a PA. Will that normally suffice?

Thank you folks in advance. I will peep in and out of here. The holidays make me anxious.

Do not let anyone tell you MD is dead for you, in reference to two comments down.

I started my bachelors surviving till my junior year of chemistry, inclusive of physical chemistry, with a 3.6. I had to transfer due to some family problems lost a bunch of credits and honestly stopped caring about school. I ended my undergrad with about a 2.4 overall GPA. The next semester I knew I needed to change and took two easy classes over that I bombed, Physics 2 and Stats, due to those problems and Aced them both while studying for the MCAT. I did terrible on the MCAT due to lack of focus, 21.

I was accepted into a special masters program that summer which was 36 credits and I ended with a 3.92, one B and I was only a single point away from the A still mad, and retook the MCAT 2015 in August and scored a 512. I am a first round applicant and I was accepted in December.

Now, I did do years of community service and research while also working throughout college in medically related fields like physical therapy, scribing in the ER, and now research at Ivy league school.

I finished my Undergrad 2 years ago, and my masters last summer. You have to work at it but there is definitely a chance. I would suggest to do a special masters so you can take high level classes all at once to make a big splash on your application. Also remember that everyone in here only has their opinion and nothing else. the only thing this site is good for is checking on where possibly schools are at in the review process. Post like these bring *****s like the one above around all the time.


Thanks for your service and good luck.

 

[macunga]

.