Low GPA, really low bio GPA, good school?

[Macku]

I am 28yrs old. I went to Oberlin college in Ohio. Its a very reputable school and I recall working very hard there. Unfortunately my grades tell a different story.
I had a 2.84 GPA but they grade on a 4.3 system not a 4.0 system. Also I was a bio major and my major GPA was a 2.18 out of a 4.3 system!
I am looking at med-school now and I am wondering if I should bother. I don't have 10,000$ to put into post doc. programs and I already need a year of pysics and 1/2 of calc. before taking MCAT's. Am I going ot need MCAT's made of the purest gold?
I know everyone posts with questions like these but I am just as unsure as the next guy.
I live in philly so there are around 5 med-schools in my area. But with these grades am I going to be flying to the islands to get my degree? I am not 22 so I don't want to just uproot myself for four years. any advice?

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[DrMidlife]

Oberlin's a great school. Fearless and all.

Personally, I wouldn't apply to med school with your GPA. Not even if you're a disadvantaged minority child of a dean. No MCAT score, not even a 40, is going to offset a sub-2.75 GPA. That 2.84 will be a 2.64 on a 4.0 scale.

(In retrospect, I shouldn't have applied with a ~3.0. Being a weak candidate makes the whole app process humiliating.)

You can get some data on whether your MCAT score would be any good by taking a practice test on www.e-mcat.com. The first one is free. I consider it highly relevant to take a test now, before you've done any prep. Your verbal score, in particular, isn't going to move much.

In your shoes, if I REALLY wanted to go to med school, I'd probably do a second bachelors degree, and I might also do an SMP (see this forum). You can get federal aid (probably loans) to do this.

If you're not really sure this is what you want, then don't do it. Medical training is arguably the worst cost/benefit of any path you can choose, unless you REALLY want it.

Best of luck to you.

 

[drimpossible]

Your situation sounds similar to mine and to to others on this board. From the little I've learned in the past six months, you are going to have to bust your keester in a post-bacc program and get some pretty strong MCAT scores for you to show the adcoms that you're not the student that you used to be. I don't have 10K either, but I'm supplementing what little I have with private and (hopefully) public loans.

If you want it bad enough, I think you can do it. However, you need to beef up your numbers with as much as you can before you become something that resembles a competitive applicant. There's a lot of work to be done, and no one's going to make you do it but yourself. That being said, I understand your predicament, I feel for you, and I wish you the best of luck if and when you decide to climb Mt. Medschool.

edited to add: oh, and where you went for undergrad probably doesn't mean much if you underperformed there.

 

[SketchLazy]

I am 28yrs old. I went to Oberlin college in Ohio. Its a very reputable school and I recall working very hard there. Unfortunately my grades tell a different story.
I had a 2.84 GPA but they grade on a 4.3 system not a 4.0 system. Also I was a bio major and my major GPA was a 2.18 out of a 4.3 system!
I am looking at med-school now and I am wondering if I should bother. I don't have 10,000$ to put into post doc. programs and I already need a year of pysics and 1/2 of calc. before taking MCAT's. Am I going ot need MCAT's made of the purest gold?
I know everyone posts with questions like these but I am just as unsure as the next guy.
I live in philly so there are around 5 med-schools in my area. But with these grades am I going to be flying to the islands to get my degree? I am not 22 so I don't want to just uproot myself for four years. any advice?

When you apply through AMCAS or AACOMAS they will adjust your gpa based on the 4.0 system, so your GPA may be even lower depending on how your 4.3 system works. Generally, they calculate your GPA using this scale:

A: 4.0
A-: 3.7
B+:3.4
B:3.0
B-:2.7
C+:2.4
C:2.0
C-:1.7

Recalculate your GPA based on that, and that's what AMCAS and AACOMAS will give you.

I agree with the previous posters in that you may have nixed your chances with that GPA. To even have a chance, you would have to do a post-bac program to both bring up your GPA and fulfill your missing requirements, and with that, it's a slim chance at best. Without the post-bac, you don't have a shot.

 

[Perrotfish]

There are many options to improving your application: retaking classes and using grade replacement (DO only), Special Masters Programs (high MCATs, generally), and just plain taking more classes to get your GPA up. My advice would be to take and MCAT review course followed by the MCAT: not because a good enough MCAT will get you in (with you´re GPA it´s pretty much hopeless until something improves) but because it´s the step that is going to consume the least time and cost. If you can´t break a 20 then it´s good to know just how high a mountain you´re proposing to climb, if you can break a 35 you can do an SMP in 2009 and get accepted for 2010.

The average MD matriculant last year had a 3.7 and a 31, so what you´re trying to do is convince them that there is something sufficiently special about you that you deserve to take a spot from someone with a 3.7 and a 31.

The islands are an option but:

1) Even they might not take you without a sufficiently high MCAT
2) They have high failout rates and low residency match rates. Make sure you understand what you´re getting into or you might end up with 200K in debt and no right to practice medicine in the US.

Whatever you do you are going to need to apply broadly, there is virtually no chance that you are going to have the luxury of going to school near where you live.

Many have found ways to get in with GPAs way worse than yours. You can make it happen if you want to.

Good luck.

 

[nu2004]

i'll probably be repeating what other people have said, but hopefully that will reinforce its relevance:

first point: you don't need calculus (for any reason), unless you are good enough at math that it's a sure A (it will boost your BCMP GPA).

second point: MD is probably not an option, now or ever. that sounds sort of harsh, but admissions committees do initial reviews quickly and you would probably get screened out of a lot of places. DO will only be an option if you do a post-bacc (i assume that's what you meant, not a post-doc) and get the grades replaced. if you aren't already aware, when you re-take a class, the DO application service will replace the older grade with the newer. the MD application service averages the two. hence, even a 4.0 in post-bacc classes would leave you with around a 3.0 BCMP, which is on the low end of realistic chances.

not even an SMP is going to help with your GPA, i'm afraid, because i think you'll still get screened. your only option as i see it is to do every pre-req again, get as close to a 4.0 as possible, score in the mid 30s or higher on the MCAT, and apply the DO route, possibly for matriculation in the fall of 2010 (if you started taking courses full-time this summer and did your MCAT in the spring of 09).

as an aside (and not to get too personal), are you an underrepresented minority? i.e., african-american, mexican-american, etc.? that would give some hope to your app, particularly if you did well on the MCAT.

edit: to second drimpossible's point, it doesn't matter if you went to the best and hardest school in the world if you didn't do well. the only time that school difficulty factors in to an admissions committee's decision is if they are comparing students A and B: student A has a good GPA from a rigorous school, and student B has a similarly good GPA from a questionably rigorous school. it may give student A the edge, but it's not the type of thing that will forgive poor performance.

 

[Think Big]

Fortunately, many ad-coms understand that we didn't all gun our way through undergrad trying to get into med school. I'm a non-trad at a top 20 school with a sub-3.0 GPA. I did my undergrad much like you, and the problem is once you've got so many credits under your belt your average just ain't moving much. Somehow you have to find a way to show them that you will be able to:

a. handle the curriculum (which is rigorous, but by no means as ruthlessly brutal as many on here would like you to believe)

b. do well on step 1

c. Spend hours and hours on the wards practicing good medicine, but also being someone who patients and co-workers alike don't mind spending hours and hours with.

So, to do this:

a. Take tough classes, and ACE THEM. It's pretty compelling to look down a list of grades that reads: C,C,C,D,C,C,B,F,F (insert five year gap here) A,A,A,A+,A+,H(onors),H,H. The "I was young/immature and didn't know what I wanted" card is one that you have just one chance to play, use it wisely.

b. Goes without saying, but get a solid score on the MCAT. I didn't get a 38 or anything, but I did well enough to leave no doubt that I could handle the boards.

c. Don't live your life to get into med school. Get into med school because of how you lived your life. Being a non-trad comes with some hurdles, but it comes with some real benefits as well.

As far as funding a post-bac goes, when I lived in Philly i worked for one of the big institutions there and took part-time post-bac classes using the tuition benefit I had from work. Took a little longer, but saved me a pile of cash. I then went on to do a masters degree, not to get into med school, but because I knew it would benefit my career whether or not I ever went on to med school.

Anyway, hope that helps. I'm not trying to be a "rah, rah you can do anything" cheerleader, but I hate to see people say you don't stand a chance at an allopathic med school. Stories like mine may be rare, but they do happen.

Edited to add: Just re-read your post, and what worries me is that you got that GPA but "recall working very hard there". If that's the case, you have got to start out slowly with classes so you can figure out why you did poorly despite working hard. I had an equally miserable GPA, but I'll be the first to admit I rarely opened a book.

 

[Macku]

Thanks everyone for all the input.
As of today I am thinking of getting a DPT degree and trying that for a few years. See if more movement and touch will make me satisfied then by the time I'm around 34 years old if I still want to be a doc. I will be in a better academic position to apply from. But hey, thats just today's idea.

 

[tabishis]

I am in a similar situation. Eventhough, I'll be working towards my BMS degree. I am transferring Gen Ed. courses like English, Socio, Pschology and stuff and only planning on retaking chem, ochem, bio courses and take rest of the required upper level courses. My undergrad GPA was 3.01. I do have a good reason for my low GPA. I worked 80+ hours a week and attended college fulltime. I am an immigrant and I had no other choice. I will prefer USF MD program but if I don't get in it then it's OK. DO school is another option.
I know I have to study hard and be patient until I graduate from medical school. I have struggled for like 8 years and I am ready for another 8. Only difference is I will not be working.

 

[Wintering]

As an undergraduate I also did poorly on my science grades. I will be in a masters program and then after that will do a post-bacc program. I am hopeful that I can kick some ass as a masters student and then kick some other ass as a post-bacc to show how much I have changed academically.

I think that maybe doing a post-bacc would be best for you. I don't know about Penn, but in NYC there are plenty of city colleges where you can take courses for like $300 a credit (don't quote me on that).

 

[TGibson81]

Fortunately, many ad-coms understand that we didn't all gun our way through undergrad trying to get into med school. I'm a non-trad at a top 20 school with a sub-3.0 GPA. I did my undergrad much like you, and the problem is once you've got so many credits under your belt your average just ain't moving much. Somehow you have to find a way to show them that you will be able to:

a. handle the curriculum (which is rigorous, but by no means as ruthlessly brutal as many on here would like you to believe)

b. do well on step 1

c. Spend hours and hours on the wards practicing good medicine, but also being someone who patients and co-workers alike don't mind spending hours and hours with.

So, to do this:

a. Take tough classes, and ACE THEM. It's pretty compelling to look down a list of grades that reads: C,C,C,D,C,C,B,F,F (insert five year gap here) A,A,A,A+,A+,H(onors),H,H. The "I was young/immature and didn't know what I wanted" card is one that you have just one chance to play, use it wisely.

b. Goes without saying, but get a solid score on the MCAT. I didn't get a 38 or anything, but I did well enough to leave no doubt that I could handle the boards.

c. Don't live your life to get into med school. Get into med school because of how you lived your life. Being a non-trad comes with some hurdles, but it comes with some real benefits as well.

As far as funding a post-bac goes, when I lived in Philly i worked for one of the big institutions there and took part-time post-bac classes using the tuition benefit I had from work. Took a little longer, but saved me a pile of cash. I then went on to do a masters degree, not to get into med school, but because I knew it would benefit my career whether or not I ever went on to med school.

Anyway, hope that helps. I'm not trying to be a "rah, rah you can do anything" cheerleader, but I hate to see people say you don't stand a chance at an allopathic med school. Stories like mine may be rare, but they do happen.

Edited to add: Just re-read your post, and what worries me is that you got that GPA but "recall working very hard there". If that's the case, you have got to start out slowly with classes so you can figure out why you did poorly despite working hard. I had an equally miserable GPA, but I'll be the first to admit I rarely opened a book.

This gives me so much hope! I feel like it actually describes me- someone with a horrendous Undergrad GPA (2.4) but a 3.8 sGPA. Im not doing an official post-bac but taking all the prerequisites at the local university.

I estimate I will have a 2.9 after I Ace all of my prereqs. No, still not good enough but Im hoping that by putting in the time and effort and going the extra mile, I may have a shot at redeeming myself.

Thank you for giving me hope!

 

[Narnian]

Wow this boat, (the similar boat) have room for one more? I did rather poorly in most of my undergrad classes. They are from different schools. But I calculated my undergrad as 2.9 I have no degree yet. Like 130 credits no degree . I calculated that I would have to take 38 classes and get all A's to bring my GPA up to 3.5 I have about 2 years left for my degree and maybe 20 - 25 classes at the most. If I get all A's that leaves me with a 3.2 maybe 3.3 So I am thinking only D.O. schools right now ....