M.D and D.O Merger ?

[Gandyy]

You are using some assumed DO "upper tier student with high stats" compared with MD averages to make a point, and get mad when someone wants to compare MD averages to DO averages? I guess maybe I should make a counter argument that compares MDs from Harvard to DOs from the bottom half of their class.

First of all, no one is "mad." But like I said, I'm done arguing this right now.

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[Gandyy]

Sure, the people who are in medical school are of course quality individuals, but the corollary is that quality also exists outside the small subset of people accepted.

I think the residency merger will serve to rank all existing residencies by quality, and the effect will be that MD and DO graduates will become interchangeable. Residents will be selected and stratified based on quality, and I think the future will show that this stratification happens on an individual level rather than MD vs DO.

Unfortunately, I think that view is too optimistic. Most likely what will happen is MD students will get to take their pick of previous AOA competitive residencies, and DO students will be left with a narrow choice of residencies. Unfortunately, I think that is what will realistically happen.

I think IMG's (particularly from the Caribbean) will also totally get shoved out except for a small percentage that are completely stellar applicants, but they will be still restricted to the most undesirable residencies.

So I think this merger actually hurts both DO students and IMGs. I think it hurts IMGs a lot more though. Unless of course some PD's view a student from the Carribean the same as a student from an osteopathic school in which case, the merger is equally bad for both for those specific residency programs.

 

[Med Ed]

You are using some assumed DO "upper tier student with high stats" compared with MD averages to make a point, and get mad when someone wants to compare MD averages to DO averages? I guess maybe I should make a counter argument that compares MDs from Harvard to DOs from the bottom half of their class.

Herein lies the type II error: cherry picking from one group to compare to the entirety of another. It goes the other way with the MD = DO because Northstate argument made earlier.

The psychology of the merger is quite interesting. While some osteopathic students are quick to tout the inroads that DO grads are making into competitive allopathic programs, there seems to be a "barricade the doors" mentality when the prospect of MD grads making similar inroads into osteopathic programs is brought up.

 

[RurouniKarly]

Unfortunately, I think that view is too optimistic. Most likely what will happen is MD students will get to take their pick of previous AOA competitive residencies, and DO students will be left with a narrow choice of residencies. Unfortunately, I think that is what will realistically happen.

I think IMG's (particularly from the Caribbean) will also totally get shoved out except for a small percentage that are completely stellar applicants, but they will be still restricted to the most undesirable residencies.

So I think this merger actually hurts both DO students and IMGs. I think it hurts IMGs a lot more though. Unless of course some PD's view a student from the Carribean the same as a student from an osteopathic school in which case, the merger is equally bad for both for those specific residency programs.

I get the feeling that MD students are prone to feeling very unhappy and somewhat insulted by the notion that there would be any situation in which they'd be considered less desirable or less qualified than a DO. They feel comforted by the assumption that they'd be able to sweep through the AOA residencies and have their pick of them if their own residency choices don't work out. However, I think that over time, once there is more mixing of MDs and DOs amongst the residencies and more exposure to each of their skill sets, the letters will mean less when it comes to finding residencies.

DOs and MDs are virtually interchangeable in the workforce these days. For example, the ED I work in has a number of DOs, and when you talk to any of the attendings in the department they scoff at the idea that MD or DO letters make any difference. The director of the department is a DO, and when you listen to comments the docs make amongst themselves (regarding the quality of their peers in the department) MD and DO peers are equally distributed along the spectrum.

DOs are becoming more numerous and ubiquitous. Over time MDs and DOs are bound to be treated the same in residencies as they are in the specialties they work in. This is a step towards integrating medical school graduates in the same way they are integrated in the workforce.

 

[Dr.Smexy]

I get the feeling that MD students are prone to feeling very unhappy and somewhat insulted by the notion that there would be any situation in which they'd be considered less desirable or less qualified than a DO. They feel comforted by the assumption that they'd be able to sweep through the AOA residencies and have their pick of them if their own residency choices don't work out. However, I think that over time, once there is more mixing of MDs and DOs amongst the residencies and more exposure to each of their skill sets, the letters will mean less when it comes to finding residencies.

DOs and MDs are virtually interchangeable in the workforce these days. For example, the ED I work in has a number of DOs, and when you talk to any of the attendings in the department they scoff at the idea that MD or DO letters make any difference. The director of the department is a DO, and when you listen to comments the docs make amongst themselves (regarding the quality of their peers in the department) MD and DO peers are equally distributed along the spectrum.

DOs are becoming more numerous and ubiquitous. Over time MDs and DOs are bound to be treated the same in residencies as they are in the specialties they work in. This is a step towards integrating medical school graduates in the same way they are integrated in the workforce.

That future is a LONG way from now. However, I agree that it'll happen eventually. I've also noticed that many DO students have a chip on their shoulders and often exaggerate their "unique" education and/or their "decision" to be in DO schools to overcompensate . Both sides have their flaws.

 

[Gandyy]

That future is a LONG way from now. However, I agree that it'll happen eventually. I've also noticed that many DO students have a chip on their shoulders and often exaggerate their "unique" education and/or their "decision" to be in DO schools to overcompensate . Both sides have their flaws.

If there is any chip on a DO students shoulder, its probably the fact that some of them had low tier MD stats, but didnt get into a MD school...... not that they think DO education is somehow superior to MDs.

 

[deleted407021]

If there is any chip on a DO students shoulder, its probably the fact that some of them had low tier MD stats, but didnt get into a MD school...... not that they think DO education is somehow superior to MDs.

It's more likely to due to stereotype threat. They fear they are going to confirm the negative image projected onto them, so they get defensive. This is also the Internet, where defensive is almost a default setting.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

If there is any chip on a DO students shoulder, its probably the fact that some of them had low tier MD stats, but didnt get into a MD school...... not that they think DO education is somehow superior to MDs.

Or maybe they are simply proud they are a med student? There doesn't have to be an insidious motive to everything.

 

[RurouniKarly]

But the average accepted DO applicants do not have a 30/3.6 gpa...and they are close to 25/3.3 as well (from what I see 27/3.5 makes you competitive for DO) so again your argument is not very effective

That number was bothering me, so I looked it up. Apparently the national average for MD programs is ~31 and the national average for DO programs is ~27.

 

[blah12346497]

When will this merger begin impacting residency placement? I just got accepted into the class of 2020 and I am wondering if this may negatively affect my chances in matching a good residency?

 

[RurouniKarly]

When will this merger begin impacting residency placement? I just got accepted into the class of 2020 and I am wondering if this may negatively affect my chances in matching a good residency?

2020 is supposed to be the first year that the match is combined.

 

[Dr.Smexy]

That number was bothering me, so I looked it up. Apparently the national average for MD programs is ~31 and the national average for DO programs is ~27.

#iknowwhatimtalkingabout

 

[Henry101]

Just passing step 1 is more impressive to me than doing well on comlex

okay. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[Lawpy]

Yeah what do i know I'm just a 4th year medical student that's applying for residency right now
Just passing step 1 is more impressive to me than doing well on comlex

okay. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

But isn't what Psai said a valid point? If not, where's the mistake?

 

[Psai]

okay. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Son, I dominated step 1. I really don't care if you believe me or not because you are a premed who doesn't know anything. I'm just telling you how it is because when I was in your shoes, I had nice medical students and residents telling me how it is. These facts won't go away just because you stuff your fingers in your ears and refuse to listen.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Son, I dominated step 1.

Gotta love those 90s disses

 

[Glazedonutlove]

I get the feeling that MD students are prone to feeling very unhappy and somewhat insulted by the notion that there would be any situation in which they'd be considered less desirable or less qualified than a DO. They feel comforted by the assumption that they'd be able to sweep through the AOA residencies and have their pick of them if their own residency choices don't work out. However, I think that over time, once there is more mixing of MDs and DOs amongst the residencies and more exposure to each of their skill sets, the letters will mean less when it comes to finding residencies.

DOs and MDs are virtually interchangeable in the workforce these days. For example, the ED I work in has a number of DOs, and when you talk to any of the attendings in the department they scoff at the idea that MD or DO letters make any difference. The director of the department is a DO, and when you listen to comments the docs make amongst themselves (regarding the quality of their peers in the department) MD and DO peers are equally distributed along the spectrum.

DOs are becoming more numerous and ubiquitous. Over time MDs and DOs are bound to be treated the same in residencies as they are in the specialties they work in. This is a step towards integrating medical school graduates in the same way they are integrated in the workforce.

why do we have md and do if the letters don't make any difference and are interchangeable. what is the point of the separation

 

[deleted407021]

why do we have md and do if the letters don't make any difference and are interchangeable. what is the point of the separation

42

 

[Lawpy]

why do we have md and do if the letters don't make any difference and are interchangeable. what is the point of the separation

Apparently it's because of past history, AOA stubbornness, and institutions "too big to fail/merge/convert" that want more money by popping up more DO schools.

I get the feeling that MD students are prone to feeling very unhappy and somewhat insulted by the notion that there would be any situation in which they'd be considered less desirable or less qualified than a DO. They feel comforted by the assumption that they'd be able to sweep through the AOA residencies and have their pick of them if their own residency choices don't work out. However, I think that over time, once there is more mixing of MDs and DOs amongst the residencies and more exposure to each of their skill sets, the letters will mean less when it comes to finding residencies.

DOs and MDs are virtually interchangeable in the workforce these days. For example, the ED I work in has a number of DOs, and when you talk to any of the attendings in the department they scoff at the idea that MD or DO letters make any difference. The director of the department is a DO, and when you listen to comments the docs make amongst themselves (regarding the quality of their peers in the department) MD and DO peers are equally distributed along the spectrum.

DOs are becoming more numerous and ubiquitous. Over time MDs and DOs are bound to be treated the same in residencies as they are in the specialties they work in. This is a step towards integrating medical school graduates in the same way they are integrated in the workforce.

Then get rid of massive deposits for holding DO seats, change the application system to be AMCAS, and eliminate COMLEX to focus strictly on USMLE. OMM/OMT etc. can be an elective for MD schools.

 

[iwillnevergiveup]

Only on SDN and to AOA programs are there top tier DO schools. Schools either have a regional reputation or are just all lumped together.

https://medicine.umich.edu/medschool/education/visiting-students

At this time, only osteopathic medical students attending the following schools may submit an application:

• A.T. Still - Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine
• Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University
• Kansas City University College of Osteopathic Medicine
• Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
• Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine

Tiers do exist, as with everything in life.

 

[Med Ed]

I get the feeling that MD students are prone to feeling very unhappy and somewhat insulted by the notion that there would be any situation in which they'd be considered less desirable or less qualified than a DO.

I think a better word is bemused.

 

[Henry101]

At this time, only osteopathic medical students attending the following schools may submit an application:

• A.T. Still - Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine
• Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University
• Kansas City University College of Osteopathic Medicine
• Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
• Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine

Wow. This is actually a very interesting, diverse (geographically and historically) list. I am also surprised Ohio University isn't on the list given it's close proximity and the strong reputation in the region. I would pay pig bucks to hear their rational for picking these specific schools. very curious...

 

[Psai]

They basically took arguably the most renowned DO med schools. What's surprising about this is that Des Moines and West U - Pomona aren't on it. Those places are really renowned for putting out damn good doctors.

Never heard of them

 

[Gandyy]

Never heard of them

You've also probably never heard of a good number of MD schools either.

 

[BurghStudent]

Nobody knows the effects of the merger. If any individual PDs do have biases, they will continue to exist, at least at first.

 

[Lawpy]

Yea, and speaking of stuff never being heard of, I wish I never heard of california northstate.

I sincerely hope that Northstate gets shot down and all for-profit MD schools banned. Possibly Caribbean schools should also be shot down for fraud.

 

[Henry101]

They basically took arguably the most renowned DO med schools. What's surprising about this is that Des Moines and West U - Pomona aren't on it. Those places are really renowned for putting out damn good doctors.

I would think they would take Midwest schools, but PCOM is on the list. It's also not a "research" issue because Kirksville doesn't have much research. I'm assuming the school has had previous sour relationships with some DO students/schools and has decided to restrict relationships with only a handful of schools. I could see this happening at other schools too. Still interesting that Ohio isn't on the list. It's a neighboring state and the Cleveland campus is about 3 hours away by car.

 

[Psai]

You've also probably never heard of a good number of MD schools either.

Yeah but i would expect to if someone is calling them renowned

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

Yeah but i would expect to if someone is calling them renowned

There's only like 25 DO schools. It doesn't take long to hear of them
Edit: If you are inclined to talk about them

 

[Dr.Smexy]

They basically took arguably the most renowned DO med schools. What's surprising about this is that Des Moines and West U - Pomona aren't on it. Those places are really renowned for putting out damn good doctors.

"Renowned" among pre-DO and DO students, sure. Renowned in the medical community...not even close.

 

[AlteredScale]

You're right, but when they're picking the renowned DOs the schools I listed should be right up on there. Weird list, but at least they didn't include Burrell, LECOMs, or LUCOM. If they did that'd be horrifying (nvm the fact that LECOM short changes rotation sites by not paying them, so I doubt they'd be making (m)any lists)

UMich Health chose those schools based of region and I believe OUHCOm is not there because OUHCOM already has strong affiliations with Cleveland Clinic. OU probably didnt even ask because their class sizes are way smaller than other DO schools and dont need to ship anyone out of ohio meaning theyre doing things right IMO which is sticking to their mission of serving the people of ohio and choosing people who want to stay in ohio specifically in primary care.

 

[Henry101]

You're right, but when they're picking the renowned DOs the schools I listed should be right up on there. Weird list, but at least they didn't include Burrell, LECOMs, or LUCOM. If they did that'd be horrifying (nvm the fact that LECOM short changes rotation sites by not paying them, so I doubt they'd be making (m)any lists)

Besides the great clinical sites, WesternCOMP isn't what it's all chocked up to be....
But, this is what fascinates me about DO schools. While CCOM, KCUMB, NYCOM etc. are considered good schools, if you compare match lists for the past few years, LECOM has considerably higher board scores and places much more students in competitive specialties/residencies (even when you do account for differences in class sizes). I just don't get how this works.

 

[Henry101]

Yea, Ohio makes people even OOS sign a contract that they'll agree to practice in ohio or something.

Yes, you are obligated to practice in Ohio for 5 years or you, eventually, get sued for $50,000 (I think you get a 8 year grace period to return if you chose to do residency OOS). If you do your residency in Ohio, they count it as part of the 5 years.

 

[takis]

Yes, you are obligated to practice in Ohio for 5 years or you, eventually, get sued for $50,000 (I think you get a 8 year grace period to return if you chose to do residency OOS). If you do your residency in Ohio, they count it as part of the 5 years.

no, GME (internship, residencies, and fellowship) do not count toward the 5 years, but there are exceptions.

http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/Admissions/SecondaryContract15FINAL.pdf

 

[Henry101]

Can you elaborate more about the issues with COMP?

I'll PM you.

 

[Henry101]

sounds good. A bunch of school have a tendency to be overhyped and sensationalized by premeds for nothing like UCF, so I'm very interested.

.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

I'll PM you.

Please include me in this message or a separate message if you can.

 

[musicalfeet]

I'll PM you.

Can you send me too? I'm interviewing there and would like to know behind the curtain

 

[Dustbowl12]

You're right, but when they're picking the renowned DOs the schools I listed should be right up on there. Weird list, but at least they didn't include Burrell, LECOMs, or LUCOM. If they did that'd be horrifying (nvm the fact that LECOM short changes rotation sites by not paying them, so I doubt they'd be making (m)any lists)

What is the issue with BCOM? I am attending there, they are creating 300 ACGME residency positions including ortho anes other specialties. Their core rotations are at residency affiliated locations, they have a research requirement and NMSU research facilities, is there something I should know?

 

[Med Ed]

What is the issue with BCOM? I am attending there, they are creating 300 ACGME residency positions including ortho anes other specialties. Their core rotations are at residency affiliated locations, they have a research requirement and NMSU research facilities, is there something I should know?

An interesting question. BCOM's largest clinical partner seems to be Lovelace, which has a respectable 600+ beds but no GME programs that I can find. The residency positions appear to be AOA-approved, not ACGME, and most or all are being started in MountainView Regional, which is rather small (168 licensed beds). It will be fascinating to watch this program develop.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

For starters they accept people with ridiculously low mcats. they just accepted someone with a 17 mcat and low 20s/high teens are pretty damn common. Accepting anyone with scores that low isn't doing anyone a favor. Secondly theyre giving preferential treatment/an admissions pathway to non-US citizens of Chihuahua, mexico, over thousands of far more qualified US premeds that can be just as culturally sensitive. I get the theory of them practicing in their own region, but do you really believe a large portion will with the ridiculous perks of a US medical school degree? It's a backdoor that shouldn't be there.

It's also another "for-profit" med school with a board dominated by big business CEOs, the dean went from bashing for-profits here to changing his viewpoint 100% after he saw the "profitability" and the explanation of why burrell wants his name on the place was super shoddy. I'll tell you the real reason, it's called diversifying his investments/assets and nepotism (look at how many burrels are on the staff). Professors/staff there have bragged about investing in oil in southeastern new mexico because it's so profitable (that sure shows how caring about rural underserved communities). They overpredicted the building timeline and it's a total rush job.

The list goes on and on and on. They've also pulled some pretty sketch stuff on applicants who interviewed there. They're a DO northstate, except northstate has done a far better job recruiting higher caliber applicants.

Bottom line: If MDs and DOs are going to merge places like this and northstate should be seriously sorted out or culled, otherwise it's bad news for everyone.

Man--my biggest problem is the for-profit. That should be against regulation.

 

[Dustbowl12]

For starters they accept people with ridiculously low mcats. they just accepted someone with a 17 mcat and low 20s/high teens are pretty damn common. Accepting anyone with scores that low isn't doing anyone a favor. Secondly theyre giving preferential treatment/an admissions pathway to non-US citizens of Chihuahua, mexico, over thousands of far more qualified US premeds that can be just as culturally sensitive. I get the theory of them practicing in their own region, but do you really believe a large portion will with the ridiculous perks of a US medical school degree? It's a backdoor that shouldn't be there.

It's also another "for-profit" med school with a board dominated by big business CEOs, the dean went from bashing for-profits here to changing his viewpoint 100% after he saw the "profitability" and the explanation of why burrell wants his name on the place was super shoddy. I'll tell you the real reason, it's called diversifying his investments/assets and nepotism (look at how many burrels are on the staff). Professors/staff there have bragged about investing in oil in southeastern new mexico because it's so profitable (that sure shows how caring about rural underserved communities). They overpredicted the building timeline and it's a total rush job.

The list goes on and on and on. They've also pulled some pretty sketch stuff on applicants who interviewed there. They're a DO northstate, except northstate has done a far better job recruiting higher caliber applicants.

Bottom line: If MDs and DOs are going to merge places like this and northstate should be seriously sorted out or culled, otherwise it's bad news for everyone.

Interesting, the dean changed his position, for profit was the only way to get the school running. The other stuff about oil sounds like heresay. The stuff I said above are all actually factual and verifiable (300 ACGME residency positions, rotations at residency affiliated hospitals, research requirement and access to NSMU facilities)

Why would you want schools that create residencies like this to be gone?

You are wrong about the building it is ahead of schedule. That makes me wonder your assessment but I chose bcom over other schools I don't believe it was a mistake

The school has taken 34 mcats also, its average will be around 26 when it's all said and done based on those accepted

I just think we need to be factual and reasonable in our assessments of schools.

CUSOM, BCOM are not bad because they are new. I'd say ACOM is a fine program also

 

[Dustbowl12]

the oil stuff is accurate and i'm not the only one who heard it.

the fact these institutions are new has nothing to do with this issue. they can accept a large number of 34 mcats to skew the average, but accepting a large number of underqualified candidates is bad news all-around.

the building projection looked grossly over-predicted when i was there, and whoever did the tour basically told us we'd be doing tbl in the friggin gym.

I respect your opinion. The building will be ready several months before the fall, they literally have a livefeed for you to watch. You are right they have taken for a fact a couple low 20's URM w/ high GPAs but it isn't as dire or extreme as you think, it's in their interest to have a competent class they won't destroy themselves by taking failures lol.

My point is we need to promote schools like this that are killing it residency wise with speciality spots all DOs need more of. All schools have pros and cons, this place is nothing like Northstate, BCOM has experienced faculty, local support, and clinical pedigree.

I may very well attend school somewhere else, but I support places like BCOM and CUSOM. LUCOM not so much and im iffy on LECOM.

Where are you attending school this fall?

 

[Med Ed]

The stuff I said above are all actually factual and verifiable (300 ACGME residency positions,

Can you provide a source for this? I am curious how a new osteopathic school is creating hundreds of allopathic residency spots.

 

[Dustbowl12]

Can you provide a source for this? I am curious how a new osteopathic school is creating hundreds of allopathic residency spots.

Absolutely, the school has already created over 100 residency positions, some of which already have begun taking applications for residents, 5 years ahead of the graduation of its first class. These positions are and all will be ACGME accredited by/before 2020.

I highly recommend you read this feasibility report. They have followed through with everything. The dean feels the heat and is on a mission to make this a top program.


http://bcomnm.org/pdf/feasibility_report.pdf
page 7

"Historically, 50 percent of osteopathic (DO) medical students match into a DO residency position. With 150 students expected per class at BCOM (600 total in four years), setting the goal of creating a minimum of 300 residency positions (50 percent of the 600 students) across the state and the region (including surrounding states) will be the goal of BCOM."

They have already delivered on 101 of those projected 300 positions

101: approved residency positions, as of July 2015, by the PTRC , facilitated BCOM , 5 yrs. before first class graduates as follows below.

http://bcomnm.org/academics/clinical-partners-and-gme/


Here is what the Umbach firm has to say about BCOM, for those who don't know this is who Tripp Umbach is

"Tripp Umbach has completed projects for more than 50 of the top 100 academic medical centers ranked in the 2009 U.S. News & World Report. Since 1990, Tripp Umbach has completed individual studies for more than 50 leading academic medical centers and their hospitals, including the Mayo Clinic, the University of Pennsylvania, Children’s Memorial Hospital in Chicago, Shands Health care at the University of Florida, the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, the University of North Carolina, and The Ohio State Medical Center. Tripp Umbach has completed economic impact studies for all 125 U.S. medical schools and for more than 400 teaching hospitals throughout a 10-year relationship with the Association of American Medical Colleges. Tripp Umbach has provided consultation to 15 new or expanded medical schools over the past five years. "


"Dear COCA:

For more than 20 years Tripp Umbach has been a leading consultant to the academic medical community throughout the United States, Canada, England, and Australia.

Over the past eight years we have completed feasibility studies, economic impact studies, and business plans for 25 new or expanded medical schools - both osteopathic and allopathic. Our firm has the most experience nationally in developing the business plans and financial models for medical schools.

While Tripp Umbach did not develop the financial model for the Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine at New Mexico State University, as it was developed by BCOM's senior management team through a rigorous process of reviewing multiple new and existing medical schools and customizing the final financial plan with the vision and mission of BCOM, our firm did a careful review of the model and believes that it accurately reflects the costs and revenue streams of a successful and sustainable medical school enterprise.

As you will see below, the financial model has also been reviewed by Schneider Downs, an independent accounting firm located in Pittsburgh, PA.

Finally, we believe that the business plan and financial model developed by BCOM is the best osteopathic medical school model developed to date.

Sincerely, Paul"

Page 51 http://bcomnm.org/pdf/feasibility_report.pdf



As you can see, Trip Umbach himself is saying this is the best DO school developed to date.

The hate is seriously unfounded and confusing, we should be applauding this program. It has created specialty residencies responsibly, will require research of its students to graduate, and will not be relying exclusively on preceptor based core rotations. (Three major knocks on DO Schools)

Hope this helps. I want to reiterate I respect and value your opinions and understand where you are coming from, just believe humbly that you are formulating stances on incomplete/incorrect information

 

[Gandyy]

"Renowned" among pre-DO and DO students, sure. Renowned in the medical community...not even close.

Neither are most MD schools.

 

[takis]

Absolutely, the school has already created over 100 residency positions, some of which already have begun taking applications for residents, 5 years ahead of the graduation of its first class. These positions are and all will be ACGME accredited by/before 2020.

I highly recommend you read this feasibility report. They have followed through with everything. The dean feels the heat and is on a mission to make this a top program.


http://bcomnm.org/pdf/feasibility_report.pdf
page 7

"Historically, 50 percent of osteopathic (DO) medical students match into a DO residency position. With 150 students expected per class at BCOM (600 total in four years), setting the goal of creating a minimum of 300 residency positions (50 percent of the 600 students) across the state and the region (including surrounding states) will be the goal of BCOM."

They have already delivered on 101 of those projected 300 positions

101: approved residency positions, as of July 2015, by the PTRC , facilitated BCOM , 5 yrs. before first class graduates as follows below.

http://bcomnm.org/academics/clinical-partners-and-gme/


Here is what the Umbach firm has to say about BCOM, for those who don't know this is who Tripp Umbach is

"Tripp Umbach has completed projects for more than 50 of the top 100 academic medical centers ranked in the 2009 U.S. News & World Report. Since 1990, Tripp Umbach has completed individual studies for more than 50 leading academic medical centers and their hospitals, including the Mayo Clinic, the University of Pennsylvania, Children’s Memorial Hospital in Chicago, Shands Health care at the University of Florida, the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, the University of North Carolina, and The Ohio State Medical Center. Tripp Umbach has completed economic impact studies for all 125 U.S. medical schools and for more than 400 teaching hospitals throughout a 10-year relationship with the Association of American Medical Colleges. Tripp Umbach has provided consultation to 15 new or expanded medical schools over the past five years. "


"Dear COCA:

For more than 20 years Tripp Umbach has been a leading consultant to the academic medical community throughout the United States, Canada, England, and Australia.

Over the past eight years we have completed feasibility studies, economic impact studies, and business plans for 25 new or expanded medical schools - both osteopathic and allopathic. Our firm has the most experience nationally in developing the business plans and financial models for medical schools.

While Tripp Umbach did not develop the financial model for the Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine at New Mexico State University, as it was developed by BCOM's senior management team through a rigorous process of reviewing multiple new and existing medical schools and customizing the final financial plan with the vision and mission of BCOM, our firm did a careful review of the model and believes that it accurately reflects the costs and revenue streams of a successful and sustainable medical school enterprise.

As you will see below, the financial model has also been reviewed by Schneider Downs, an independent accounting firm located in Pittsburgh, PA.

Finally, we believe that the business plan and financial model developed by BCOM is the best osteopathic medical school model developed to date.

Sincerely, Paul"

Page 51 http://bcomnm.org/pdf/feasibility_report.pdf



As you can see, Trip Umbach himself is saying this is the best DO school developed to date.

The hate is seriously unfounded and confusing, we should be applauding this program. It has created specialty residencies responsibly, will require research of its students to graduate, and will not be relying exclusively on preceptor based core rotations. (Three major knocks on DO Schools)

Hope this helps. I want to reiterate I respect and value your opinions and understand where you are coming from, just believe humbly that you are formulating stances on incomplete/incorrect information

honestly, all I see is a lot of promises being made. there is a reason why it's called a feasibility report.

also, those residencies are not BCOM's, they aren't even NMSU's. they are developed by each of their respective community hospitals, so i honestly don't even know what BCOM's "facilitated the ongoing graduate medical education“ means in this context. if BCOM actually offered affiliated GMEs it would be in the form of OPTIs, like all other osteopathic institutions, which it can't possibly make until it has its own stuff.

regardless, chances are the school will be fine for at least the first decade it is open, and most likely not top as you persistently assert it will be.

 

[Dustbowl12]

honestly, all I see is a lot of promises being made. there is a reason why it's called a feasibility report.

also, those residencies are not BCOM's, they aren't even NMSU's. they are developed by each of their respective community hospitals, so i honestly don't even know what BCOM's "facilitated the ongoing graduate medical education“ means in this context. if BCOM actually offered affiliated GMEs it would be in the form of OPTIs, like all other osteopathic institutions, which it can't possibly make until it has its own stuff.

regardless, chances are the school will be fine for at least the first decade it is open, and most likely not top as you persistently assert it will be.

Yeah maybe it won't be a top program, you are absolutely right- we simply can't say for sure it will be good or even solid. But it sure is promising, and an excellent model for new schools to follow (creating residencies, requiring research, strong clinical rotations)

BCOM is directly responsible for the creation of these residency positions, and BCOM students will be rotating at these locations.

You can refer to the links for more technical/detailed information

 

[takis]

Yeah maybe it won't be a top program, you are absolutely right- we simply can't say for sure it will be good or even solid. But it sure is promising, and an excellent model for new schools to follow (creating residencies, requiring research, strong clinical rotations)

BCOM is directly responsible for the creation of these residency positions, and BCOM students will be rotating at these locations.

You can refer to the links for more technical/detailed information

well, none of that model stuff is really new. every school propagandizes their potential success. every medical school tries to encourage local residencies to accommodate its students, tries doing research if possible, and of course trying the best to have quality clinical rotations. i suppose possibly due to NMSU affiliation that it has an upper hand in possible research? but NMSU isn't exactly a research power house, either.

i personally don't believe in the hype this school is getting, but we'll see after the first guinea pigs of this experiment come out.

 

[Dustbowl12]

well, none of that model stuff is really new. every school propagandizes their potential success. every medical school tries to encourage local residencies to accommodate its students, tries doing research if possible, and of course trying the best to have quality clinical rotations. i suppose possibly due to NMSU affiliation that it has an upper hand in possible research? but NMSU isn't exactly a research power house, either.

i personally don't believe in the hype this school is getting, but we'll see after the first guinea pigs of this experiment come out.

All solid and accurate points. I would just say that although all schools desire these things most don't or are unable to make it happen vs BCOM which is already walking the walk this early on.

Indeed we will see after 4 years if it ends up as rosy as it seems now