Major Life Event, Now Wanting to Get Back

[psychyes93]

Hi, new to this site. I have been out of undergrad from a top-tier UC school for almost 3 years now. In that time I had a major life event that prevented me from doing much other than jobs as a tutor, executive assistant, and taking a few classes to ease myself onto the academic route again. Before this life event, my dream was to be accepted to a fully-funded PhD program in Psychology, specifically Social Neuroscience. I had alot of research experience in 2 psychology labs, independent research, and held talks at a few prestigious universities, although I never actually published my research because the findings werene't significant enough.

I am now at the place where I believe I can successfully manage a heavy courseload and be on my way to a long and successful career (hopefully); at the same time, I have been painfully aware that all of my peers have gone on with their lives while I am stuck contemplating my possible career moves, more than I would like to. I just need some direction as to what to do next....

Ideally, I would like to get into a program starting this Fall. (Whether it be a PhD, an internship leading to a PhD, a travel scholarship, etc). I am very anxious to be a part of a community of peers again, where I can work on what I love with like-minded people. Frankly, I cannot stand not being in an academic setting with a bunch of people doing interesting research at this time of my life. Also, I DO NOT want any debt associated.

What would it take for me to be accepted to a fully-funded PhD program at a top-tier university? Inspiring professors and research is what I am most aiming to experience, with opportunities for students to be a leader in their fields through expanded roles outside lab (talks, teaching, etc).

Anyone who has been accepted to such program care to share their stats? Advice? What should I do to further my goals and dreams?

Thanks so much for reading and your advice!

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[deleted343839]

Ideally, I would like to get into a program starting this Fall.

Application deadlines for 2016 have passed, so the earliest possible start date would be fall 2017. I wouldn't worry too much about your peers having "gone on with their lives." In many Ph.D. programs it's common for students to be several years out of undergrad or even pursuing second careers.

Anyone who has been accepted to such program care to share their stats? Advice? What should I do to further my goals and dreams?

What are your goals and dreams? What kind of career are you envisioning? You need to have a basic idea of your research and career interests before you apply to graduate school.

Inspiring professors and research is what I am most aiming to experience, with opportunities for students to be a leader in their fields through expanded roles outside lab (talks, teaching, etc).

The first steps to becoming a leader in your field (assuming you want an academic career) are to get a job and get funding after graduation. Most Ph.D. programs follow a mentorship model, meaning you will primarily work with one faculty member who will help you develop your career in a specific area. A good mentor will help you develop your own research agenda and make it compelling to people who might eventually hire you or decide to fund your research. Coursework, teaching, and so forth are important and necessary training experiences, but they're secondary in the big picture.

Most people on this forum are clinical psychologists (or aspire to be), but a lot of the advice applies to non-clinical disciplines too. Welcome!

 

[Wendi22]

Hello,

I will share a relatively brief statement and feel free to ask more. Unfortunately you did miss the deadline for fall 2016. However like was previously mentioned it is not abnormal for people to be several years removed from undergrad. Furthermore in this case I think it might be good for you to have some time to clarify your goals and pick a program that will work for you. After applying several times I can tell you that the cycle process goes relatively fast before you know it you will be sending in applications (deadlines for PhD programs are usually December 1 with PsyD programs sometimes later like January 15). My advice would be to take this year to maybe dabble in some more research/ other tasks and really clarify what you want to do. Going into a Doctoral program is a big deal and something it seems like you have waited for..... So work to get into the one you want do not settle at this point there is no reason to. That being said you may come to realize after this year that a PhD is not what you need to for fulfill your career goals.

As far as what it will take to get a funded program...... Clinical and even counseling doctoral programs are pretty competitive. if you go to the website of some of the schools you are interested in they should display average GRE scores and sometimes will display cut off scores. Keep in mind though that many applicants that you will be up against have scores above the 75th percentile in both sections. Applicants also have poster presentations and possibly a publication. It's competitive out there but possible with determination good luck!


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[Dentistry3399]

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[Dentistry3399]

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[psychyes93]

What are your goals and dreams? What kind of career are you envisioning? You need to have a basic idea of your research and career interests before you apply to graduate school.

When I was in undergrad, I wanted nothing more than to be among my psychology professors--teaching, publishing books and articles, speaking to the public about their advancing research, and creating significant achievements in their fields. I sometimes feel as though I would want a one-on-one clinical experience down the line, but as of now I don't feel I have an interest dealing with the "negative" side of psychology--I'm more of a positive psychology type...So I don't know if I will be much help with patients.

The first steps to becoming a leader in your field (assuming you want an academic career) are to get a job and get funding after graduation. Most Ph.D. programs follow a mentorship model, meaning you will primarily work with one faculty member who will help you develop your career in a specific area. A good mentor will help you develop your own research agenda and make it compelling to people who might eventually hire you or decide to fund your research. Coursework, teaching, and so forth are important and necessary training experiences, but they're secondary in the big picture.

Most people on this forum are clinical psychologists (or aspire to be), but a lot of the advice applies to non-clinical disciplines too. Welcome!

Thank you for the welcome! I understand that clinical psychology is separate from the research side, and I would like to focus on research now, and maybe clinically down the line, when I am a bit older and experienced. What would be the next step for someone who has been out of the field for a while? I have emailed some professors at a university close by, and often I receive the response that they already have enough research assistants for their lab. And while I want to get as much exposure as possible, many positions are unpaid undergrad research positions and not something in between UG and Grad. As I've said I already have a year and a half of research in 2 labs, so I don't know how much it would help to have another lab with the same menial tasks under my belt. I also want to support myself financially, for my own spending expenses at least (live with my parents now), so a paid internship or a specific path to a graduate program would help..

What would be your advice for the best next step, then...

 

[psychyes93]

Hello,

I will share a relatively brief statement and feel free to ask more. Unfortunately you did miss the deadline for fall 2016. However like was previously mentioned it is not abnormal for people to be several years removed from undergrad. Furthermore in this case I think it might be good for you to have some time to clarify your goals and pick a program that will work for you. After applying several times I can tell you that the cycle process goes relatively fast before you know it you will be sending in applications (deadlines for PhD programs are usually December 1 with PsyD programs sometimes later like January 15). My advice would be to take this year to maybe dabble in some more research/ other tasks and really clarify what you want to do. Going into a Doctoral program is a big deal and something it seems like you have waited for..... So work to get into the one you want do not settle at this point there is no reason to. That being said you may come to realize after this year that a PhD is not what you need to for fulfill your career goals.

As far as what it will take to get a funded program...... Clinical and even counseling doctoral programs are pretty competitive. if you go to the website of some of the schools you are interested in they should display average GRE scores and sometimes will display cut off scores. Keep in mind though that many applicants that you will be up against have scores above the 75th percentile in both sections. Applicants also have poster presentations and possibly a publication. It's competitive out there but possible with determination good luck!

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Yes, I actually took the GRE back in 2014, and I received didn't receive above the 75th percentile, I think the highest I received was a 66th in Verbal and lower than that in Qualitative. I did achieve a 5.5 on my essay though! I have 3 poster presentations, but I don't think I could get a publication in this short time span..?

Also, how would you advise dabbling in possible research I could be interested in? How can I get fully involved, without spending all of my time doing unpaid volunteer work that frankly does not help me learn more than I know already. Also, by researching on my own, I am wasting time that could have been spent bolstering up my application..

It seems like this process caters to the type-A personalities who excelled in their undergrad, extended that work after graduation, and then extended further into grad. Not many opportunities for those coming back into the scene and starting a bit fresh...

 

[Harry3990]

My advice would be to start contacting (or at least heavily investigating) specific professors who you may be interested in working with in a graduate program. Get some clarity about the type of research you specifically want to go for...what in social neuroscience are you interested in? There is so much in the behavioral neuroscience realm these days, so clarifying some basic in terms of what you want to pursue will be super important. And then when you do contact professors expressing interest in them as a mentor, they will expect you to be able to discuss their area with them (this seems essential to me for demonstrating you are a good fit with them). Another thing I think is important to mention here, because your goals are research-focused: use the professor of interest (or their cv) as your gauge for the quality of training. If they have a stellar publication rate and lots of their grad students publish well and seem to find good research post docs, this is a great sign. Elsewhere on this forum you'll see posters talk frequently about other metrics for determining quality of a program (internship match rates, debt, etc). For research these things don't matter so much, especially if you aren't attending a clinical program. In a nutshell, I'm advising considering the record and reputation of individual PI's over the institution or graduate program itself. This can also help you get lucky sometimes in terms of competitiveness of programs, because sometimes there are some really stellar faculty working at not-so-famous or competitive programs

Other than those types of things, definitely study and retake the GRE if you can. Boosting those scores would help.

How's your GPA? Anything less than 3.5 may hurt you. Anything less than 3.0 may disqualify you from places altogether.

The poster experience will definitely help. Especially if these were at international conferences and not just smaller regional ones.


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[Dentistry3399]

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[psychyes93]

My advice would be to start contacting (or at least heavily investigating) specific professors who you may be interested in working with in a graduate program. Get some clarity about the type of research you specifically want to go for...what in social neuroscience are you interested in? There is so much in the behavioral neuroscience realm these days, so clarifying some basic in terms of what you want to pursue will be super important. And then when you do contact professors expressing interest in them as a mentor, they will expect you to be able to discuss their area with them (this seems essential to me for demonstrating you are a good fit with them).

Thanks Harry. I agree, I think its very important to know the breadth and depth of your topic of interest. However, without much exposure to these areas, I am constantly trying to pick and choose, kind of guess my way into what I am interested in. Its difficult to determine what quality research you want to pursue or where you want to contribute without actually being there, actively discussing and doing the work towards it. Is it even possible to contribute more?
I know I would like to explore social cognition, memory, self-identity (maybe in terms of culture, SES)..I mean they all seem interesting. How to choose just one?

Another thing I think is important to mention here, because your goals are research-focused: use the professor of interest (or their cv) as your gauge for the quality of training. If they have a stellar publication rate and lots of their grad students publish well and seem to find good research post docs, this is a great sign. Elsewhere on this forum you'll see posters talk frequently about other metrics for determining quality of a program (internship match rates, debt, etc). For research these things don't matter so much, especially if you aren't attending a clinical program. In a nutshell, I'm advising considering the record and reputation of individual PI's over the institution or graduate program itself. This can also help you get lucky sometimes in terms of competitiveness of programs, because sometimes there are some really stellar faculty working at not-so-famous or competitive programs.

That is important--actually one of the professors I want to work for has exactly that--a high publication rate, a lot of grad students, etc. but he is also from a prestigious university, one of the best in the country. Usually, the not so famous institutions don't have those special PI's--thats what contributes to the not so famous reputation. From what I've seen, usually these places don't have the funding needed, they are okay with teaching a bunch so they don't have to publish or perish.. But I will be open-minded and look into it.
Also, when contacting them, what would I want to get out if it? I mean, what am I looking for? A research assistant position? Unpaid? And where would that lead to.. I know they wouldn't necessarily let me get involved in the actual development and implementation of the research itself, just the menial work that an undergrad could do..right?

Other than those types of things, definitely study and retake the GRE if you can. Boosting those scores would help.

How's your GPA? Anything less than 3.5 may hurt you. Anything less than 3.0 may disqualify you from places altogether.

my overall GPA as a Psychology major was a 3.80.

 

[deleted343839]

That is important--actually one of the professors I want to work for has exactly that--a high publication rate, a lot of grad students, etc. but he is also from a prestigious university, one of the best in the country. Usually, the not so famous institutions don't have those special PI's--thats what contributes to the not so famous reputation.

I've noticed in your posts that you seem very concerned with prestige, rank, etc. Your perception is a bit off. Top graduate programs in specific disciplines might "outrank" the general reputation of their universities, and vice versa. And if your research and career interests don't align well with those of the faculty at a given program, it doesn't matter how prestigious it is - it's not where you belong. Fit is much more important in graduate school than in undergrad. As long as the program offers funding and has a good track record of student outcomes, it is worth a look even if it's not at a "brand name" institution.

Also, to correct a possible misconception about clinical psychology, it is a research degree and many clinical psychology PhDs go on to careers in academia. The difference is that a clinical psychology program includes both research and clinical training. It is difficult to go back and respecialize in clinical psychology later on, so if you have any interests in future clinical research or practice, you should look into clinical programs.

 

[Harry3990]

Usually, the not so famous institutions don't have those special PI's--thats what contributes to the not so famous reputation.

This is what I was trying to demonstrate is a misconception, actually. You may have to curb you expectation for what constitutes a faculty member with a great reputation though. If you are only looking at full profs with 200+ pubs, then yeah, it'll be pretty hard to find one that's working at a less competitive school. However, if you are looking at early career people who already have 40+ pubs after only 4-5 years out of school, that is also very impressive and demonstrative of their productivity. Those people definitely do work at the less competitive schools, though they may look for more prestigious jobs later in their career.

Regarding how to learn more yourself: read articles. Use google scholar. Search faculty members profile pages on their schools' websites (occasionally people will not only post citations of pubs, but also full texts). Dive into specifics. I'd say a good thing to start with might be to find 3-4 big name authors that you get really excited about when you read their research. Then you can get a better feel for what specific areas you might want to consider. Back when I was an undergrad, some examples of those names for me were Robert Sapolsky, James Gross, Paul Eckman... Then you can go around and see who is citing them a whole lot and go further down the branches till you get to people that are not only the outrageously famous but are moderately notable and doing great work that you are interested in.


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[Harry3990]

Another idea is to look at the people who you have your eye on and try to get a feel for their mentee network. Meaning, if your interested in working with professor X who is a full prof at an ultra competitive program, check out professors A, B, and C who he/she mentored and are now assistant/associate profs elsewhere. Also check out profs Y and Z who are not as famous but publish often with prof X and seem to be active collaborators. This is another way that reaching out directly to profs can be helpful. You can let them know that you love their research and are interested in not only working with them, but also wondering if they would recommend you check out other people that they know of who have similar interests and might be taking students.

Also, when contacting them, what would I want to get out if it? I mean, what am I looking for? A research assistant position? Unpaid? And where would that lead to.. I know they wouldn't necessarily let me get involved in the actual development and implementation of the research itself, just the menial work that an undergrad could do..right?

Sometimes just initiating the contact can be helpful for opening up doors. Other times, people are busy and won't really engage you though, so don't feel discouraged if that's the case. Any of the above are options, but also volunteering is good too. Just getting back into a lab environment may be helpful to get you engaged and reading articles and discussing topics in lab meetings again. Menial work (eg data entry) is not fun, but I think if it allows you to be a part of lab discussions or journal clubs, it can be worth it for helping to give students ideas for what they are interested in.



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[Wendi22]

Yes, I actually took the GRE back in 2014, and I received didn't receive above the 75th percentile, I think the highest I received was a 66th in Verbal and lower than that in Qualitative. I did achieve a 5.5 on my essay though! I have 3 poster presentations, but I don't think I could get a publication in this short time span..?

Also, how would you advise dabbling in possible research I could be interested in? How can I get fully involved, without spending all of my time doing unpaid volunteer work that frankly does not help me learn more than I know already. Also, by researching on my own, I am wasting time that could have been spent bolstering up my application..

It seems like this process caters to the type-A personalities who excelled in their undergrad, extended that work after graduation, and then extended further into grad. Not many opportunities for those coming back into the scene and starting a bit fresh...

Hello sorry for the late response but it seems like you have gotten some good advice about how to constructively get involved in research. I will just note that I actually did volunteer for research on the side. I worked full time and worked in a lab as a volunteer. These efforts allowed me to have a paper under review by the time I applied to programs. You are correct in that it is unlikely the paper will be completely accepted by the time you apply to programs but if there is a study that has already been completed and someone is willing to allow you to help write it up you could have something under review.



I have also found that it helps to approach professors with a very willing attitude and be excited about the opportunity to learn. I am just a little confused cause you stated that you are starting a bit fresh but are concerned about volunteering and not learning anything new? Anyway The main thing to consider when you are looking at working with someone is will there be some type of outcomes such as a poster or publication


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