Marine veteran with a 3.4 and 503

[jlh19]

Hey everyone, just trying to figure out if I should submit secondaries for my school list now that I have my MCAT scores in. My AMCAS is verified and I'm starting to get all the secondaries. Below I'll list my stats and info about me

-3.4 AMCAS cGPA and BCPM
-Upward trend the past 2 years of a 3.72
-503 MCAT
-28 years old having served 5 years in the Marine Corps infantry having been deployed to Iraq
-Leadership experience of being a non-commissioned officer in the Marine Corps (corporal) including during my deployment. Received an award for my leadership and actions during combat operations. Also I am a supervisor with the Red Cross
-Clinical experience of being an EMT for 3 years now and working full time for 2 years. Also volunteer with the Red Cross First Aid Service Team, which we provide first aid and BLS care for social events (football games, concerts, basketball games, festivals, etc)
-During the gap year I am in a paramedic course that lasts a year and I'll be certified as a paramedic when done.
-No research experience, trying to get involved in some pre-hospital EMS research
-Ohio resident
-50 hours shadowing
-Volunteering with the Red Cross and a community clinic
-School List:

Ohio University
Cincinnati
Ohio State
Northeastern
Wright State
Toledo
Michigan (huge reach I know haha)
Rosalind Franklin
Eastern Tenn State
Loyola
Rush
New York Medical College
Albany
George Washington
Dartmouth
Drexel
Thomas Jefferson
U of Miami
Quinnipiac
Wake Forrest

-I'm still searching through the DO's I want to apply to. There aren't much in Ohio so that's why only OU is on my list right now


Like I said, trying to figure out if there are any on that list I shouldn't waste the money on the secondaries

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[GrapesofRath]

You have a pretty decent chance at your state schools

 

[Faha]

East Tennessee State and Michigan are the only ones you should remove. For MD you could add these schools where you have a chance for an interview:
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
St. Louis
Creighton
Georgetown
Add at least 5 DO schools and you should be competitive for any DO school. Your veteran status will help your application and you should receive several MD interviews.

 

[Banco]

Military experience will carry you; apply broadly. Definitely add all Ohio schools.

 

[Goro]

Concur with my learned colleague.

And many thanks for your service to our country. Semper Fi!

East Tennessee State and Michigan are the only ones you should remove. For MD you could add these schools where you have a chance for an interview:
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
St. Louis
Creighton
Georgetown
Add at least 5 DO schools and you should be competitive for any DO school. Your veteran status will help your application and you should receive several MD interviews.

 

[jlh19]

Thanks guys! I greatly appreciate the help

 

[Doug Underhill]

Have you considered USUHS?

 

[jlh19]

I have. Despite knowing that I would be well-suited to the military life, I ultimately decided against it because I am not sure if I want to go back into the military for another 15 years. I know it's only a 7 year commitment but I already have 5 years in and I would a dumb dumb to not put in the extra 8 years to retire as probably an O4-6. That has major family implications and I don't feel comfortable making a huge commitment like that. I would love to be a military physician and will most likely go the FAP route so that way I can spend more time considering it with my family and choose my specialty. That was a hard decision to make and one that had been bugging me for a few months until I ultimately made the call a few weeks ago.

 

[bommer1389]

Seeing this post was awesome. I am long time lurker and first time writer. 25 y/o Lt, but also had low cGPA in undergrad (3.13, graduated in 2014) and took MCAT 2x in 2013 (22,23) and knew those scores wouldn't help me. Finally scored a 507 last month while working full time active duty. I still have my commission commitment to fulfill, so rolling in more commitment if I get accepted to USUHS wouldn't be too bad (although I applied broadly). I plan to make a career as a physician for our armed forces either way! I hope we both get to follow our dreams brother!

 

[jlh19]

Best of luck to you sir! That new mcat will help you immensely and then add in your leadership experience also and you're probably looking really good!

 

[GrapesofRath]

Seeing this post was awesome. I am long time lurker and first time writer. 25 y/o Lt, but also had low cGPA in undergrad (3.13, graduated in 2014) and took MCAT 2x in 2013 (22,23) and knew those scores wouldn't help me. Finally scored a 507 last month while working full time active duty. I still have my commission commitment to fulfill, so rolling in more commitment if I get accepted to USUHS wouldn't be too bad (although I applied broadly). I plan to make a career as a physician for our armed forces either way! I hope we both get to follow our dreams brother!

Create your own thread but a 3.1/30 military veteran has a shot at being competitive. Like I said though make your own thread in WAMC.

 

[bommer1389]

Thanks, I did that last week. Didn't seem to generate many opinions however.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/posts/16751389/

Create your own thread but a 3.1/30 military veteran has a shot at being competitive. Like I said though make your own thread in WAMC.

 

[jlh19]

Hey everyone I just wanted to write real quick asking for more opinions.

I haven't had any luck so far this cycle. 4 pre-II rejections and complete radio silence from everywhere else. I know it's probably over with (yea it's still November but odds are definitely against me now), so do you think this is because of my MCAT or is there something else that is probably the reason why nothing has happened?

 

[GrapesofRath]

Hey everyone I just wanted to write real quick asking for more opinions.

I haven't had any luck so far this cycle. 4 pre-II rejections and complete radio silence from everywhere else. I know it's probably over with (yea it's still November but odds are definitely against me now), so do you think this is because of my MCAT or is there something else that is probably the reason why nothing has happened?

Where all did you apply and when were you complete? I am somewhat surprised you haven't gotten any love from any of the Ohio schools but alas there still is time, I know some of the Ohio schools like NECOM have very high post II acceptance rates so keep that in mind; even one II could be enough

 

[darknecrosforte]

5 year USMC radio tech got accepted to WesternU (Cali resident) first cycle. Similar stats, higher academic, but much lower ECs. If you wanted to PM me about your app, maybe I can offer perspective, being from a similar background.

I applied "top-heavy" to 10 DO schools where 3 had strong IS preference. Only got II to two. It seems like if you get a single II, you'd have a strong chance though.

 

[jlh19]

Where all did you apply and when were you complete? I am somewhat surprised you haven't gotten any love from any of the Ohio schools but alas there still is time, I know some of the Ohio schools like NECOM have very high post II acceptance rates so keep that in mind; even one II could be enough

My school list is up top in my original post. Since that list was made I also added Oakland Beaumont, Western Michigan (rejected pre-II), Penn State, Temple, Lake Erie, and PCOM. I've had pre-II rejections from about 7 places and complete silence everywhere else. All apps were completed in August and a few of those late added ones were done in early September. Just a little frustrated and wondering if there is anything wrong with my app other than my lower mcat that I didn't think about. Or if it's just bad luck, especially since I've been seeing others with the same LizzyM's get II. Maybe I was just relying on my military and EMS background too much haha

 

[GrapesofRath]

My school list is up top in my original post. Since that list was made I also added Oakland Beaumont, Western Michigan (rejected pre-II), Penn State, Temple, Lake Erie, and PCOM. I've had pre-II rejections from about 7 places and complete silence everywhere else. All apps were completed in August and a few of those late added ones were done in early September. Just a little frustrated and wondering if there is anything wrong with my app other than my lower mcat that I didn't think about. Or if it's just bad luck, especially since I've been seeing others with the same LizzyM's get II. Maybe I was just relying on my military and EMS background too much haha

I would expect you to attract attention from DO programs.

I mean honestly you have rather below average stats. If it weren't for your military status, it wouldn't even make sense to apply to MD's with a 3.4/27. You are relying on a major hook to carry you that's not URM status. Yes, there was reason to believe it could have for you, but again with military type applicants especially, it's really a rough guess that you can get on here as to how you'll fair.

Your GPA and MCAT are both low for MD programs. If you don't get in this cycle and don't want to pursue the DO route again then one of them has to go up. It'll be alot easier and more feasible for the MCAT to go up if you retake.

 

[jlh19]

I would expect you to attract attention from DO programs.

I mean honestly you have rather below average stats. If it weren't for your military status, it wouldn't even make sense to apply to MD's with a 3.4/27. You are relying on a major hook to carry you that's not URM status. Yes, there was reason to believe it could have for you, but again with military type applicants especially, it's really a rough guess that you can get on here as to how you'll fair.

Your GPA and MCAT are both low for MD programs. If you don't get in this cycle and don't want to pursue the DO route again then one of them has to go up. It'll be alot easier and more feasible for the MCAT to go up if you retake.

I figured that. The only reason I didn't apply DO was because I haven't had time to shadow a DO and get a letter from one. And now with my paramedic school it's virtually impossible to do anything other than school, ride time, and hospital clinical time haha. If I do reapply it'll be after an mcat retake and with more of a preference on DO. The process has been so rough and long that I may not even reapply and stick to fire/medic so we shall see. Thanks for your honest advice!

 

[JessebenBenjamin]

I figured that. The only reason I didn't apply DO was because I haven't had time to shadow a DO and get a letter from one. And now with my paramedic school it's virtually impossible to do anything other than school, ride time, and hospital clinical time haha. If I do reapply it'll be after an mcat retake and with more of a preference on DO. The process has been so rough and long that I may not even reapply and stick to fire/medic so we shall see. Thanks for your honest advice!

Really? hmm

 

[jlh19]

Really? hmm

Probably just the frustration speaking. I enjoy medic very much and may choose to continue that path for a few years and then decide whether I want to move on or not. The process just has been mentally draining right now

 

[alpinism]

The truth is that while being prior military is a great application boost, it won't make up for low stats at most schools (including Ohio MD schools unfortunately).

If you had applied early to 10+ DO schools with a DO LOR, you would likely be sitting on multiple acceptances right now.

You might still get late interviews from PCOM and LECOM, but if you really want to be a doctor, apply early to DO next cycle.

 

[jlh19]

The truth is that while being prior military is a great application boost, it won't make up for low stats at most schools (including Ohio MD schools unfortunately).

If you had applied early to 10+ DO schools with a DO LOR, you would likely be sitting on multiple acceptances right now.

You might still get late interviews from PCOM and LECOM, but if you really want to be a doctor, apply early to DO next cycle.

I feel ya! Thanks for the advice, I'll improve my weak areas and try again in the future!

 

[jlh19]

Well good news! Got an II at Ohio State this morning! Hopefully I can rock out this interview and have more good news to update you guys about later on!!!

 

[rodmichael82]

Semper Fi. I think you should have applied a little bit more broadly. I don't know if that's possible now. Either way good luck and thanks for your service.

 

[jlh19]

Semper Fi. I think you should have applied a little bit more broadly. I don't know if that's possible now. Either way good luck and thanks for your service.

Thanks for the advice, sorry it's taken this one to respond. For the future, what do you mean by applying more broadly? As in more schools? I tried to apply only to schools where my gpa wasn't below their 10th percentile so I was definitely limited on where all to apply to.

 

[jlh19]

I found out last week that I was placed on the deferred/soon to be wait list at Ohio State. I thought I did really well and it sucks because it's been my only II this who time. But oh well, at least I got the chance and hopefully they take me off of it!!! Thanks again to everyone for help

 

[REL]

As a veteran retiree myself I truly appreciate your service to our country. I also have been blessed with a second career in Med School with 16 years in Admissions. I am going to provide you with some thoughts for reapplication if you have not been accepted. As noted your service time demonstrates teamwork and leadership, two qualities that are a positive. Your positive GPA trend is also helpful - consider a 1 yr MS to make it hard for schools to deny your academic strength. The first administration year of the new MCAT, and a 503, makes you barely competitive in this area. Age cannot be considered in the application process, but your life expereince is a positive. Research is minimally helpful and is not a high factor or requirement at most MD programs for entry. Programs will usually give some leeway in the very important areas of medical motivation and humanism to vets but your experiences are murky to me. These are displayed mostly by volunteering in medical and community service areas, and there should be some consistency, over time, of these motivations. You have done some shadowing - do more. Medical volunteering should be done in venues where docs are present. Your Red Cross, EMT, and paramedic are good experiences but they are on a fuzzy line betweek community service and may be med-light. I feel that this is a weakness that you can gain great traction if you get into some free clinic/hospital volunteering. My program has had between 4-6 vets in each class and some of them each year have metrics similar to yours. We like a good mix of non-traditional students in each class. Our vets have been real contributors and also have been able to cope with the rigors of med school and get through the program without much trouble. Consider applying to schools in Florida, there are 7 MD and 2 DO, and most are taking several non-residents into their MD classes.

As a recap please consider the following: Increase medical volunteering and shadowing to show commitment. Continue some community volunteering. Consider building on your academic trend with a 1 year MS in a core science discipline. Retake the MCAT if you feel that you can gain a few more points. I hope that this helps.

 

[jlh19]

As a veteran retiree myself I truly appreciate your service to our country. I also have been blessed with a second career in Med School with 16 years in Admissions. I am going to provide you with some thoughts for reapplication if you have not been accepted. As noted your service time demonstrates teamwork and leadership, two qualities that are a positive. Your positive GPA trend is also helpful - consider a 1 yr MS to make it hard for schools to deny your academic strength. The first administration year of the new MCAT, and a 503, makes you barely competitive in this area. Age cannot be considered in the application process, but your life expereince is a positive. Research is minimally helpful and is not a high factor or requirement at most MD programs for entry. Programs will usually give some leeway in the very important areas of medical motivation and humanism to vets but your experiences are murky to me. These are displayed mostly by volunteering in medical and community service areas, and there should be some consistency, over time, of these motivations. You have done some shadowing - do more. Medical volunteering should be done in venues where docs are present. Your Red Cross, EMT, and paramedic are good experiences but they are on a fuzzy line betweek community service and may be med-light. I feel that this is a weakness that you can gain great traction if you get into some free clinic/hospital volunteering. My program has had between 4-6 vets in each class and some of them each year have metrics similar to yours. We like a good mix of non-traditional students in each class. Our vets have been real contributors and also have been able to cope with the rigors of med school and get through the program without much trouble. Consider applying to schools in Florida, there are 7 MD and 2 DO, and most are taking several non-residents into their MD classes.

As a recap please consider the following: Increase medical volunteering and shadowing to show commitment. Continue some community volunteering. Consider building on your academic trend with a 1 year MS in a core science discipline. Retake the MCAT if you feel that you can gain a few more points. I hope that this helps.

Wow, thank you so much for this advice! I greatly appreciate it and will take all of it into the next application year. I do have a question though about what you mean about me being med light and not much community service? I have in fact volunteered for almost 2 years now at a free clinic here in my community (if you want to put a hours number on it I'm probably approaching 200 hours now) and I have volunteered with the Red Cross for over 3 years now providing EMS and first responder care to numerous community events (hours over 500 now). I have also worked as an EMT full time for 2.5 years now so I don't view myself as one of those premeds who get their EMT to just put on their application. Also especially since now I'm almost through my paramedic school and have committed well over 1300 hours to classroom work, ride along time on paramedic crews (on the way back from the hospital now from a run), and clinical time in the ED's, ICU's, and OR's where I have substantial time learning and talking to physicians. Now I don't think that that will fully make up for my low hours of shadowing, but I do feel I didn't elaborate that enough on here and my application.

This is by no means me arguing, but just trying to elaborate a bit more on my experiences because I really thought I was more med heavy than the usual applicant. Could you please add some more into what you mean so I could make some changes in the future for my next application cycle and so I can portray these experiences better on my application so I can avoid being too vague about my experiences. Thanks so much again!!!

 

[jlh19]

Oh I forgot to mention also, yesterday I received 2 interview invites over the next 3 weeks so I'm really excited and encouraged by that!!!

 

[REL]

Oh I forgot to mention also, yesterday I received 2 interview invites over the next 3 weeks so I'm really excited and encouraged by that!!!

Thanks for the elaboration. The hours/time commitments noted helps me to understand and change my analysis. You have demonstrated medical motivation in the volunteer arena so that is a game changer. So then we can consider that the only major factor that has prevented more interviews appears to be the metrics. With that, I am very pleased that you have received the recent interview invitations. They will be lucky to have a vet with all of the experience and perspective that you will bring to their class.

 

[jlh19]

Well good news in the past week or so. I was accepted to OUHCOM! Also yesterday I received 2 more MD II at Jefferson and NEOMED. I'm still waiting on my decision from OUWB and I'm excited for it because I really really liked it up there! Thanks everyone for all the help, I'll keep you updated on future news, acceptances, and where I decide to matriculate if I receive any more acceptances. Though OUHCOM may be the pick!

 

[jlh19]

Another update for everyone heading in to traffic day next week. Since my last post I had gotten another MD II at Wright State, which I was waitlisted at. I was put on the High Priority wait list at Thomas Jefferson. Also I was accepted at NEOMED!!! I may have a tough choice between OUHCOM and NEOMED coming up. Pretty much it's down to DO vs MD. Here is a summary of everything below

Acceptances: OUHCOM and NEOMED
Waitlisted: OSU (#1), Thomas Jefferson, and Wright State

Thanks everyone again for your support. I'll make sure to update again in May!!!

 

[Goro]

 

[alpinism]

If it comes down to OUHCOM and NEOMED, attend NEOMED.

 

[22031 Alum]

Congratulations!!!

One of my favorite attendings from residency, whose surgical and teaching skills I try to emulate to this day, is an alum of NEOMED.

 

[jlh19]

If it comes down to OUHCOM and NEOMED, attend NEOMED.

Thanks for the advice, that's my tentative plan right now!


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[jlh19]

Congratulations!!!

One of my favorite attendings from residency, whose surgical and teaching skills I try to emulate to this day, is an alum of NEOMED.

That's very exciting! I really liked it up there too and I think I can be very successful there!!! Thanks for sharing that!


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[chrisjh]

did you hear from OUWB?

 

[jlh19]

did you hear from OUWB?

I did, they put me on their 3rd tier waitlist so pretty much a nicer way of rejecting me. I was bummed because I really loved it up there and they were my number one. Plus I thought I crushed my interview, but I guess not. Don't really know what happened there!


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[chrisjh]

I did, they put me on their 3rd tier waitlist so pretty much a nicer way of rejecting me. I was bummed because I really loved it up there and they were my number one. Plus I thought I crushed my interview, but I guess not. Don't really know what happened there!


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Ah. Well congrats on your acceptances. OUWB is my second choice, after U of Mich. I'm a former marine also, albeit higher academics stats. I'm lacking in research also, but I'm hoping the military career, along with some other ecs will help smooth over that bump.

 

[jlh19]

More good news. I was accepted off the waitlist at Wright State University and I absolutely love this place! Unless OSU calls (not holding my breath) I'm going to be matriculating here! I have already withdrawn from everywhere except for OSU so this crazy year is finally finally finally over! Thanks to everyone who has helped me out throughout this year, I truly appreciate it! Good luck to everyone. This is probably my last update, unless OSU calls but like I said before I'm not holding my breath!