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Has anyone ever heard of someone being certified as both a Physical Therapist and Massage Therapist?
Thanks,
Giants2008
Thanks,
Giants2008
Massage Therapy and Physical Therapy
- Thread starter Giants2008
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I do, actually. I know a PT who has her own practice. She has a PT degree and a massage therapy degree. What she'll do is see a patient as a PT patient, doing whatever is necessary. If their insurance runs out, or if it is not approved, she will see them as a massage therapist, charging a flat rate (i think 60/hr) doing massage therapy. She said she likes being able to see her chronic pain patients for a long time w/o having to worry about insurance issues. So it is definitely possible, but I would say its more for those chronic pain patients. Wouldn't really be beneficial if you treated orthopedic, sports, neuro, etc. Hope this helps!
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I know a ton of PTs that are LMTs.
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Just an important FYI in case you are unaware:
1) You are not "certified" in physical therapy: more than 90% of PT (~95%?) programs are doctorates (DPT) with the remainder masters degrees (MPT) - all will eventually be DPT. You then become licensed by the state to practice just like most/all other health professions.
2) A massage therapy certification requires ~nine month program (at least where I live) without any educational requirements for admission. They are licensed in many states (I'm not sure how many states in the U.S. require this). I found a couple private associate degree programs with a quick search, but I think most are certificates.
I love how people will pay 60/hr for massage which has very short-term effects on pain (no significant effects on DOMS) while some PTs accept far below this for reimbursement from insurance companies or privately. This is amazing considering the immense value and efficacy of the services PTs provide compared to massage. The public needs to be educated about what we do and PTs need to have higher standards. Just saying...
1) You are not "certified" in physical therapy: more than 90% of PT (~95%?) programs are doctorates (DPT) with the remainder masters degrees (MPT) - all will eventually be DPT. You then become licensed by the state to practice just like most/all other health professions.
2) A massage therapy certification requires ~nine month program (at least where I live) without any educational requirements for admission. They are licensed in many states (I'm not sure how many states in the U.S. require this). I found a couple private associate degree programs with a quick search, but I think most are certificates.
I love how people will pay 60/hr for massage which has very short-term effects on pain (no significant effects on DOMS) while some PTs accept far below this for reimbursement from insurance companies or privately. This is amazing considering the immense value and efficacy of the services PTs provide compared to massage. The public needs to be educated about what we do and PTs need to have higher standards. Just saying...
As a PT, I believe you are qualified to do massage therapy for therapeutic purposes. In that case, being a LMT would not be necessary if you are already a PT. Unless you want to do massage therapy for relaxation, etc... which is not covered in the PT curriculum.
here's my humble opinion:
Either way, you should be licensed for both if you want to incorporate more massage therapy into your PT practice....I know quite a few upscale massage therapists who charge way more than 60/hr for good reason- they know their anatomy, pathology, and their therapeutic work is truly amazing just by itself. However, they're also the ones who would always suggest combining massage therapy with a skilled physical or occupational therapist, acupuncturist, whoever.
what it boils down to is how good your practitioner is and what kind of results you and your patient are expecting.
Either way, you should be licensed for both if you want to incorporate more massage therapy into your PT practice....I know quite a few upscale massage therapists who charge way more than 60/hr for good reason- they know their anatomy, pathology, and their therapeutic work is truly amazing just by itself. However, they're also the ones who would always suggest combining massage therapy with a skilled physical or occupational therapist, acupuncturist, whoever.
what it boils down to is how good your practitioner is and what kind of results you and your patient are expecting.
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Massage is becoming more out of the picture in regards to PT as it has been in the past due to the lack of evidence showing it's anymore than a palliative treatment and the move towards EBP. PTs certainly have the knowledge base to perform massage therapy though. I don't think there are any laws protecting massage to be performed by solely LMTs as opposed to PTs. You would want to separate physical therapy from massage therapy and make it clear to the patient what the differences are. I was thinking about also doing massage therapy on the side for cash services. I don't see the need to get a a LMT certification through an eight week program though.
The therapists I'm acquainted with went through 9 or 12 month programs and keep up with continuing education requirements focused on issues like pre and post natal women, oncology patients, etc. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my earlier post, all I meant to say was that it would be more of a well rounded education to have the massage license in addition to the DPT....granted that one doesn't opt for the "8 week wonder" program.
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The therapists I'm acquainted with went through 9 or 12 month programs and keep up with continuing education requirements focused on issues like pre and post natal women, oncology patients, etc. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my earlier post, all I meant to say was that it would be more of a well rounded education to have the massage license in addition to the DPT....granted that one doesn't opt for the "8 week wonder" program.
The education that a LMT receives is incredibly limited when compared to any PT degree. It is redundant. Much of what is learned in MT programs is likely to be tradition rather than science. Hot rocks, Chakras, polarity, Reiki, Craniosacral etc . . . all of the things that have been dismissed by the traditional medical community because of the lack of evidence are taught in MT classes. I think this has to do with the association with chiropractic. Many LMTs offices are actually in chiro offices and the profession therefore has been influenced strongly by the alternative medicine crowd.
Don't waste your time and money. You would be better off getting a associates degree in accounting.
It doesn't round out your education, it distorts it and helps confuse science and fiction
Like I said, it all depends on the kind of practitioner you want to become/the type of help you want to offer your patients.
well said
Not necessarily. It all depends on where you learn. I am already certified as a massage therapist as i head into DPT this fall. My education was very little "foo-foo" (reflexology, eastern medicine, etc) and very functional (16 credits of A&P and kines, geriatric/pediatric massage, sports, etc).
Now, granted, more medical modalities like PNF and joint mobilization are ones that I taught myself, but they are still tools in my bag, and they should allow me to do as someone mentioned previously - provide some benefit to chronic pain patients beyond whatever PT their insurance will cover (in more than just a "let me rub your muscles so you feel better until tomorrow" way), while also providing another alternative income flow to myself.
Kinda like how some students leave DPT schools and head into the world and suck as PT's, there are surely some great (and not so great) PT's who integrate massage therapy into their work.
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With all due respect, I have yet to see anything support massage as a long lasting solution to anything. If patients or former patients have chronic pain that requires massage and it is out of pocket to them, don't you think that you will be morally obligated to find a less expensive way to help them manage their symptoms, like for example, walking? analgesic rubs? exercise class? a bath?
If you feel that charging someone $70 or whatever for an hour massage is the "right thing to do" and those $70 are not disposable income, then I think you are not holding what is best for the patient as your first priority.
You will need to learn about science and evidence and then see how much you incorporate massage into your PT practice.
I'm not going to force them to receive massage therapy from me. I was referring more to the fact that there is a crossover of some small extent between PT and MT. Both utilize manual therapeutic techniques from the other's field.
Plus, IF I have the choice of telling my patients "ok, your insurance ran out bye" or "your insurance ran out, but IF you are interested in out of pocket expense, this can be ONE option to you going forward"....i'd probably go with the latter.
