Master's programs to improve application

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sumstorm

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I was given information on one at NCSU and one at Drexel....anyone know of others?

Anyone had success going this route?

Are all these programs 1 year and all course based (rather than thesis based, which I would prefer.)

Would I be better off redoing my pre-reqs at a 4 yr, or going for a Master's? My pre-reqs are now 8-12 years old, which disqualifies me for several schools. I would have to move for any of these programs, which is problematic but not impossible...while I could commute to a local 4 yr. Also, some of my early pre-reqs are (orgo) are C's but I have an A in biochem (last summer.)

So, I am mostly seeking information on programs and how much they have helped (or not) other applicants. I suppose I am starting to figure out the next step if I don't get into NCSU.

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Unless you really want to retake all those courses I would consider going the master's route and doing well at that.

My prereqs are also very old (around 8-10 years, I am in my late 20s) but I have been accepted and/or interviewed at several schools already. I think they just want to make sure that you haven't lost any study skills or forgotten the science fundamentals, which a masters would prove you havent. Plus you might be doing something fun with a masters. I have been working in the technical science field since I graduated so I used that as a justification for my classes being older. I didnt apply to some schools cause of my class age, but there are ALOT Of schools (NCSU being one of them) that don't have that rule.

Like I said, with a masters you might learn something new, make more contacts, or get to do some interesting research!
 
I think most of the thesis-based programs are 2 year. I think that the Microbiology MS at NCSU isn't thesis based, though, and its a 2 year program.

I met with a prof over at the NCSU vet school earlier this year, and he said that he didn't think a masters wouldn't really help my application out all that much...but I graduated much more recently than you did. He seemed to think that working in a research lab would be much more helpful to my application.

He also mentioned that it is a good idea to get the masters from the school where you want to attend vet school. For example, he was surprised that my cousin was doing his masters in Micro at NCSU, instead of UNC, since UNC has a med school.
 
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I have actually taught lab practicals for all the pre-reqs since completing them, and when that wasn't part of my job (after Katrina-Rita) I have been on the research end of things (NOAA) up until I moved to NC, at which point I started focusing on vet school and working at a vet clinic.

I will, if I get rejected from NCSU, ask for a review....I just am afraid that will be beyond the point that i have to have applications in, and I don't want to waste a year. I think the Master's route would be much more interesting.... just the difficulty of moving (I am married and own a home and dear hubby won't be able to move and keeping two households up for an additional year) adds stress to the decision (plus renting/purchasing for a potential 1yr is different than 4 yrs.)

Argh.....so much easier for a vet program than a 1 year program with no real assurance that it will improve my application.
 
NCSU only does group reviews--so it'll be you (and maybe me too!) along with 200 of [y]our closest friends. (I wish there was an icon with rolly eyes without a smile on it's face).

From the website:

Applicants not offered admission are welcome to attend an "applicant review session" conducted by the Student Services Office. Staff members will review the admissions cycle, provide statistical data and offer suggestions for improvement in a point-by-point summary of the admissions requirements.
All requests must be made in writing (e-mail is preferable) and include the applicant's name and VMCAS ID number. The 2009 admissions cycle review session will be held on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 at 5:30pm.
Submit your request to attend to [email protected] no later than 5:00pm on April 1, 2009. Applicants will receive a confirmation e-mail with directions and location information.
This is a group session. Individual appointments (i.e. "one-on-one" counseling) will not be conducted.
 
I will, if I get rejected from NCSU, ask for a review....I just am afraid that will be beyond the point that i have to have applications in, and I don't want to waste a year. I think the Master's route would be much more interesting.... just the difficulty of moving (I am married and own a home and dear hubby won't be able to move and keeping two households up for an additional year) adds stress to the decision (plus renting/purchasing for a potential 1yr is different than 4 yrs.)

Ah, I see, yes that does make things difficult. Do the group review and if you are not satisfied I would still call up to talk to an advisor from the school a few months down the road to see what you can do. If I remember from NCSU (I didn't apply there) they dont care how old your prereqs are.
 
The group review is April 22, so that should still give you time to get your Masters application in, if you need to. It looks like the NCSU MOP (Physiology program masters) is due June 25.
 
I was in the same position as you. I decided to do a thesis-masters at a veterinary college. I think this is your best option because it will teach you the importance of research and allow you to become an expert in one particular area. It will also allow you to interact with respected professionals that can assist in the advancement of you career. However, you will have to come to an agreement with your PI about whether or not you will be permitted to apply to vet school while you are completing you masters. Most investigators do not want to accept a student only to have them leave in 1 year. If you have any questions please ask, I know a lot about this process!


In my personal experience many veterinary schools look down on non-thesis option. Additionally a thesis masters will allow you to get more jobs (APHIS, CDC). I know it is a time commitment but it will probably be more beneficial in the end.

But check with the vet schools that you are applying to before you decide on a masters program. As crazy as this may sound some schools only consider your undergrad GPA for admission and don't factor in your graduate GPA!
 
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I met with a prof over at the NCSU vet school earlier this year, and he said that he didn't think a masters wouldn't really help my application out all that much...but I graduated much more recently than you did. He seemed to think that working in a research lab would be much more helpful to my application.

A thesis-based MS is basically like working in a research lab except you actually get a degree to show for it too. I'm surprised that a professor (who assumedly knows this) would say something like that.

I agree with TSUJC, but then again I'm biased because I am also in a thesis-based MS at a vet school. I haven't really heard that schools look down on a non-thesis based option, though, especially for instance something like what CSU offers, where upper division/grad level sciences coursework is more emphasized and you take a full load of it. My OWN professor who has been an adcom member, too, didn't seem too thrilled about the general idea of a nonthesis MS, but didn't tell me that schools don't like to see it explicitly. I was really only interested in a thesis based MS anyway, which is obviously more about the research (which I rather enjoy). 2-3 graduate level graded courses a quarter for me along with all my research and seminar credits (although next quarter I'll be in the Veterinary Genetics class with the first-years :laugh: ). The schools that don't take grad GPA into account probably do so because they realize that so little of a thesis-based MS or a PhD is about the classes and grades, and it's about your ability to do scientific research.
 
I should clarify a little. I meant to say that many of my professors (most of which are adcom members) have expressed to me that they personally would prefer to see a thesis-masters rather than a non-thesis. This does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the vet school as a whole. I think the deciding factor should be based on what you want to take away from your graduate experience.
 
I completed honors research with a thesis, so I am not new to research. I actually defended my thesis before committee at Westerin Illinois University in order to complete my honors for undergrad (at a private college). I developed allometric growth curves for mississippi river turtle populations as bioindicators for source point pollution (or, in simpler terms, formed a reference frame for using heavy metal toxin residues in turtle muscle, adipose, and shell tissue (primarily snapping turtles) to triangulate source point pollution and give time frames for distribution of toxins. I spent most of my senior year working with students obtianing thier masters there, so I am familiar with the thesis option and the level of research.

So, I don't desire to avoid the thesis due to the work (I love research and am one of those strange individuals that is always formulating hypothesis to test just about everywhere I am...including the gym last night) but due to a desire to not wait an extra year.... I will be 30 this summer and my husband has more than a decade on me....so there is some desire to not be away from him for 6-7 years if 4-5 will do.

Are there thesis programs that can be completed in one year?
 
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Ben & Me....if you don't want to apply for financial support. I think the app has to be in by March for financial aid (I am going off of memory, so I might have my dates off.)
 
If next round doesn't pan out for me, I'll likely be doing graduate school work towards a masters... and I also would be interested in a one year program because I've already skipped a round of applications in order to improve my stats... so I'm interested in any responses or advice you guys have as well.
 
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Like I said, with a masters you might learn something new, make more contacts, or get to do some interesting research!

I agree that a masters can provide you with new opportunities, contacts, etc. that taking undergrad coursework over again might not.

My one-year non-thesis course-based masters really opened up a lot of doors for me. Granted, I pushed hard on those doors (the program was new while I was there and the guidance was slim, but I knew what I wanted out of it). No idea if this would appeal to you (and I don't know what the program's like now, because like I said I was there in the first few years, so it's grown a bunch since then), but this is the program I did:

http://microbiology.georgetown.edu/education/msbiohazagentsinfectiousdiseases/
 
I've already skipped a round of applications in order to improve my stats....

I too had been deliberating between applying to masters programs or taking a crack at applying to vet school when I finished undergrad. I have been out of undergrad for a little over a year now (graduated in December 07) and after speaking with my old adviser, have decided to apply this coming cycle to see if I can get in without having to do a Masters program. Twelvetigers, you said you've taken a year off from applying to improve your stats. I've been thinking about my chances and my time line with success or failure. I already know that grades will be what potentially keeps me from being accepted. Many on here have mentioned that a file review can yield helpful information on areas of improvement and that fixing those things and applying again impresses the adcoms. It just seems that by the time you hear that you've been rejected from everywhere that whole year (Fall and Spring semesters) is already over and it's time to start applying again. I feel as though I too would have to sit out an application cycle and spend the following year retaking some of my prereq's. Was this similar to your scenario?
 
I am currently in the one year non-thesis based MS program at Colorado State. It is called the plan B Masters program, in Biomedical Science, and there are human, animal and neurology concentrations. I love it. However, it is a competitive program, primarily filled by pre-somethings who did not get in after their first round of applications. 50 slots total. All I can tell you about if it helps or not is that I had a 3.4 undergrad GPA, and after the first (fall semester), I got an acceptance letter to Wisconsin. BTW I had been out of school for 15 years -- although I also finished a BS here, which took the 3 semester prior to the MS-B.
http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/bms/gradlink.htm

Kai
 
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Tufts offers a one year Masters in Animals and Public Policy, I think.

Also, John's Hopkins offers a one year program "designed for students seeking to improve their applications to medical or other professional schools." I'm sure it costs LOTS, though, since it is Hopkins. The link is here:

http://www.jhsph.edu/dept/MMI/Degree_Programs/Masters_Programs_in_MMI.html

I'm not sure how competitive either program is, or how directly helpful since I don't know anyone in either. Good luck to everyone looking into (or already working in) MS programs! :luck:
 
I'm just finishing up my master's (thesis based) and I was just accepted to VMRCVM too. I applied three years for vet school before I did my master's with no luck. This is the first year I applied since going to grad school. I think it helped since my undergrad grades weren't excellent (mostly As and Bs but a few Cs in science classes) and grad school requires good grades so my GPA was helped tremendously. Also I got a lot of research experience with my thesis (and I was a research assistant). I had no research experience as an undergrad. I really believe if it was not for my master's I would have not been accepted.
 
Do you think the research experience in a master's program really helps if you have extensive research experience in undergrad and a post-bac fellowship? I really have a hard time thinking that any research I am going to do will be any more significant than my honors thesis and my watson fellowship. I also worked for NOAA as an observer (front line data collector) so I have also conducted field research in some of the harshest conditions possible, including necropsies and tissue sampling. I really think the things that are 'bad' on my app include GPA (3.4 overall and 3.4 pre-reqs while working FT) and 'old' grades (though I have taken several courses over the past 3 semesters with a 3.9 GPA.)

Now that I think about it, our associate vet told me I cut apart more dead bodies in NOAA and zoo work than she did in vet school....of course, I reminded her that the point in vet school is generally to keep the body living!

Maybe I needed to focus my PS differently.....hopefully NCSU will let us know soon and I can stop the torture.
 
I was given information on one at NCSU and one at Drexel....anyone know of others?

Hey SumStorm! I completed the Master's in Lab Animal Science program at Drexel university so PM me if you'd like more info. Here's some advise/info I can offer ya:

1. Is cost a factor? My MLAS degree was a two year, non-thesis program and cost over 30,000. If you need: more networking channels and want to improve your last 45 units, than a non-thesis program sounds like the way to go...But it sounds like you have tons of research exp so:

2. retake pre-req's at a reputable 4-yr college. I'm pretty sure most schools will let you enroll as a post-bac student through their graduate studies dept. This could be a more affordable option...Then re-take GRE's and get awesome scores.

I also know UPenn has a post-bac program for pre-vets. It's not specifically listed on this website, but just call and ask:
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/postbac/pre-health

Also, here's a link that lists more post-bac programs. Although these are pre-med post-bac's, some schools may have a specific pre-vet tract you can customize -
http://hpap.syr.edu/pblist.htm

good luck!
 
robeezy, thanks for the information. My GRE's are >1400 with a 4.5 writing. I am not sure how much more I can improve them.

Cost is a factor...I can afford to attend vet school (and obvoiusly masters) without taking out much debt (possibly without taking any) BUT adding 2 extra years of cost would be difficult. It is one thing if I felt absolutly certain that would do the trick, but I am not sure it would. I have taken 5 classes post bac now with a 3.9 (pre-reqs that weren't required back when I graduated.)

It would be both cheaper/easier to retake classes locally.... and if it would do as much for me as going into a masters program, it would be a more effective use of time/money.

If the goal is just to improve my admissions potential, would retaking be as effective, given my background, as doing a masters, particularly a thesis.

Not sure what else to think at the moment...wish NCSU would get thier letters out.
 
Do you think the research experience in a master's program really helps if you have extensive research experience in undergrad and a post-bac fellowship? I really have a hard time thinking that any research I am going to do will be any more significant than my honors thesis and my watson fellowship.

In short, it will be.

There is often a significant difference in the eyes of someone looking over an app between undergraduate research and graduate research. I was explicitly told this by a DVM admissions committee member. Like you, my undergrad research was independent and I completed an honors thesis. Unless you got a lot of good first-author publications in high-impact journals or some such out of your undergrad research or post-bac research, or your MS thesis advisor is really lax, you will do more as a MS student. I have two significant projects on my own, and a number of things I'm doing for other people's projects, personally, and I am held to a higher standard in my research abilities than I was as an undergrad. Now, as an undergrad, my thesis advisor was the sort to print out copies of the first page of each of my thesis first draft sections (originally sent to him by email) for the sole purpose of drawing a red line through each one and writing 'DO OVER' on them, so I certainly didn't have an easy advisor for that. My committee also grilled me at my oral defense. But what I'm doing now is still more involved than that.

It really also doesn't seem constructive or conducive to scientific inquiry to believe that you've already learned all that you can learn from doing research, unless what you learned already was that you don't like it. It also comes off as extremely arrogant, so I hope you don't come off that way to any potential advisors or admissions committees.
 
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Sumstorm, I'm in a Masters program right now doing just coursework. My school (probably others too) just requires that you take 36 hours worth of class which you could easily do in a year if you went during the summer. The good thing about programs like this is that it has allowed me to get TONS more animal experience. Since I'm not working on my own thesis project I've had the chance to help with other students' work which gives me the animal experience without having to spend a semester writing about it. So far it's been helpful, I've had way more luck this cycle than the first time I applied.

Also, most grad programs will pay for your tuition as long as you are willing to TA for some department in the college. You get a monthly stipend too. This is also great because it shows awesome leadership qualities and really gives you great experience to use while answering those behavioral based interview questions! Good Luck!
 
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Are there thesis programs that can be completed in one year?

At the university I'm at, thesis-based masters can be completed in about one and a half years if you work really hard at it. I have to agree with what others said though, your undergrad research will not count as much as a thesis based masters.

I know that at my university PIs (principal investigators-the boss in charge of your research) really do look down on non-thesis based masters programs. Doing research greatly enhances their opinion of a person, I think because it shows that you can actually integrate the knowledge you've accumulated in a classroom and apply it to an actual problem.
 
I have to agree with nyanko and Gellabella. Your undergraduate research is very impressive but I don't think it will carry the same weight as graduate research.
 
It really also doesn't seem constructive or conducive to scientific inquiry to believe that you've already learned all that you can learn from doing research, unless what you learned already was that you don't like it. It also comes off as extremely arrogant, so I hope you don't come off that way to any potential advisors or admissions committees.

I took me a bit to reply to this. I am sorry if, in your mind, I came off as thinking I have 'learned all that can learn from doing research' because I don't believe that in any manner. I actually continue to assist as a volunteer with other people's research and to conduct my own (in companion animal behavior) because I am passionate about research. I find it amazing that you can determine that someone is 'extremely arrogant' when you know very little about them.

I also do understand that my undergraduate research is NOT the same as masters research....but on an incremental level, I would think the improvement in admissions criteria would be greater via research for someone who had not previously completed a thesis and published. I also thought, which may be incorrect, that the Watson Fellowship for research internationally would give a strong indication that I am capable of research, even under conditions that many researchers will never experience.

I actually regret even posting the question, or seeking clarification, at this point, as I don't see a reason for such hostility on a board that I thought was intended to help people in developing their portfolio as vet school applicants.
 
Hmmm, I guess it also depends on what you plan on doing after/during vet school:

- Do you plan on applying to any PhD/DVM programs then I think a thesis based program is the way to go;

- If you plan on becoming board certified in a particular field, esp one that complements your MS degree, than a thesis based prgm is the way to go;

- If you plan on being a general LA/SA/Mixed practitioner than maybe doing a regular post-bac/1-yr nonthesis program is best

BTW, was NCSU the only school you applied? As you know, every school has different requirements as far as age of pre-req's, but IMHO as long as you show strong improvement in: GRE, GPA and/or veterinary experience then it shouldn't weigh as heavily on whether you did a thesis/nonthesis program.
 
Not going to get into the thesis, nonthesis discussion...

sumstorm, in response to one of your original questions, Drexel has two programs you might be interested in:

-The VMS (Veterinary Medical Science) is a one year certificate program (as in I don't think you get a master's).
-The MLAS (Master of Lab Animal Science) is two years and you do get a master's.

They are both specifically designed to get you into vet school; basically the guy that made them got a lot of input from adcoms about the best courses to strengthen an application.

Anyway the website is here:

http://www.DrexelMed.edu/Home/Acade...grams/VeterinaryMedicalScienceVMSProgram.aspx

That's for the VMS and there is a link to the MLAS on the left.
 
It just seems that by the time you hear that you've been rejected from everywhere that whole year (Fall and Spring semesters) is already over and it's time to start applying again. I feel as though I too would have to sit out an application cycle and spend the following year retaking some of my prereq's. Was this similar to your scenario?

Yeah, kinda. I didn't know if I was in or out until March 14th last year, so I certainly couldn't have done anything big as far as spring semester was concerned. Then, it took me until the end of June to find a position at a veterinary clinic. So, I gave myself the extra time to get experience and also, hopefully, raise that GPA... though I haven't taken full time courseload, so I haven't done as much as I would have liked. However, I feel like I'm in a better position now, and while it's been a bit hard watching all the other acceptances... it's better than another rejection. I've had at least one person tell me that I'm waiting my time sitting around and not applying, but I think that I would have wasted money if I did.

You can always be proactive and start retaking pre-reqs or taking higher level courses before youve heard from the school... utilize that spring semester! Just assume that you won't get in, and then if you do, it's no big deal. If you don't, you're already making improvements.
 
I actually regret even posting the question, or seeking clarification, at this point, as I don't see a reason for such hostility on a board that I thought was intended to help people in developing their portfolio as vet school applicants.[/quote]
Hey sumstorm,
please don't get frustrated, I think people, at least myself, were just trying to help. Admittedly, some on this site do tend to get overly hostile, as I myself have experienced personally.

Anyhow, I believe the advantage of a thesis based MS is that it gives you research credentials, and they can often be extended into PhD opportunities – if you care about that.

Myself, I am finishing up a class work only based MS with a year-end cumulative 3 day final over everything. I am not a lab rat, nor do I enjoy doing pure science to be honest. I prefer to work more in a clinical, real world based setting, that is just me and my personality. My non-thesis MS cannot be used for a PhD, and I knew that going in. However, the 32 credits of required and elective 300+ level classes have greatly expanded upon my base of knowledge. I also know from those who have done the program before me, while initially the first years scoff at those who did the MS prior, the program makes your first year of professional school a relative breeze as you will have already had most of the anatomy and physiology topics before – often in even more detail than that taught in vet school. Plus, I have it on good account that admissions committees love to see a prior record in equivalent, 500 level and above courses. It allows them to see exactly how you will do in equivalent classes to what you will be taking in vet school. That is what they want to see -- how will you do in a demanding program. I have been told that sometimes they will want to see more than 1 semester, so it may not help you until the next year – after you have gotten the MS, but it does help.

Anyhow, cheers to you for trying, and asking. I hope you have gleaned answers to your questions somewhere within this discussion we all have been having.

Kai :)
 
I chose to do my masters before going to vet school. The University of Missouri has rolling admissions (so you don't have to worry about deadlnes) and they only take students (in the animal science dept.) once you have a research assistanceship with a lab. This means that all your courses will be paid for, you will recieve a stipend that it is possible to live off of, and most of your research is paid for. You may have to write a few grants but that's good practice. Basically you can get through your Masters without acrueing any extra dept.

That being said, if your primary goal is just to get into vet school, take the prerequisites. Or at leat that is my advice. I love my research and have really grown and matured through the process of being a grad student, but, it is hard work. You will be working 60+ hour weeks, every week. If research is not something that interests you as a carreer path along with veterinary medicine then I would not suggest this route. I found, working in a lab after graduation, that I have a natural affinity for research, which I will definitely incorporate into my career as a vet.

Just my two cents. And maybe take this with a grain of salt because I am in the middle of writting my thesis, finishing my reseach and taking a full course load. I am also determined to get through in a year and a half which is pretty unheard of in my program.

Sorry, this turned from advice to venting. If you do want to take a look at the program at mizzou send me a message with some of your interests and I could give you the names of a couple professors that I believe are truly excellent mentors and great scientist. Also, by the time you finish your masters you will be a MO resident, improving the odds of getting into vet school here.

I feel that doing my masters was possibly one of the best choices I've ever made.
 
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BTW, was NCSU the only school you applied? As you know, every school has different requirements as far as age of pre-req's, but IMHO as long as you show strong improvement in: GRE, GPA and/or veterinary experience then it shouldn't weigh as heavily on whether you did a thesis/nonthesis program.

Thank you..I think your points are very clear and make sense..you are giving me actual concepts to chew on and I really appreciate that.

I think part of what I am struggling with is that I am not sure I can give 'strong' improvement in any of those: my GPA is 3.4 and I know I could do better than that if I was attending school and not working full time (I have a 3.9 for the past 2 semesters + summer.) My GRE is >1400 and I am not sure I can bring that up. I have 1,500 hrs vet experience in exotics (zoo), 1,300 small animal, 60 marine mammal, 120 fisheries, 80 large animal (those are all under direct supervision ofa vet and I have a lot of animal experience beyond that.)

I was thinking about this, and if I was going to do research aiming towards a PhD outside of the veterinary field, my interests would be in animal behavior or analysis of disease vectors/toxicology.

I also admit that my husband is playing into this.... I can justify leaving for long periods of time and great distances to pursue my dream knowing the eventual result...it is another thing to do so on a chance that it might help. I don't know if that makes sense. That is why I am trying to balance a lot of factors to determine what is best for me..... all the way around. So Ithink I am having a hard time feeling confident that the masters, even w/ thesis, will drasticly improve my applicaiton.

Maybe it is just application process jitters.
 
Oh, and i applied to 5 schools. Rejections for 3 already, waiting on Penn and NCSU (IS school.) Didn't recieve interviews with any of the others.
 
Wow you seem like such a great applicant, I can't believe you did not receive interviews at the other schools! Good luck with Penn and NCSU.

 
I took me a bit to reply to this. I am sorry if, in your mind, I came off as thinking I have 'learned all that can learn from doing research' because I don't believe that in any manner. I actually continue to assist as a volunteer with other people's research and to conduct my own (in companion animal behavior) because I am passionate about research. I find it amazing that you can determine that someone is 'extremely arrogant' when you know very little about them.


Quite to the contrary - all I know about you is what you present here. And I was commenting on the nature of the statement you made, not you personally. If the "very little" that a person knows about you is what you present to them, that's what they will use to interpret your wording. I've been misinterpreted on here plenty of times because I'm often short with people and don't tend to hide my points in flowery, wishy-washy language, like here for example where you assume that I am saying YOU are arrogant when I mean that your statement sounds arrogant.

I actually regret even posting the question, or seeking clarification, at this point, as I don't see a reason for such hostility on a board that I thought was intended to help people in developing their portfolio as vet school applicants.

I have trouble putting exactly what I want to say into words a lot. Everything I try to type in this paragraph comes out more inflammatory than it's intended. The short of it is that I get annoyed when the sole question in this decision seems to be "Will this help me get into vet school?" I feel like that's a consideration to keep in mind, but I like to look at and discuss things in a different way, as an experience with its own separate merits than what it will look like on an application. As much as we all hate to think about the possibility of not ever ending up going to vet school, it could happen. So to me, anything you do "to improve your application" should be something that you would at least consider wanting to do otherwise - who knows, it could end up being the last thing you do, and why would you want to be unhappy?
 
Oh, and i applied to 5 schools. Rejections for 3 already, waiting on Penn and NCSU (IS school.) Didn't recieve interviews with any of the others.

Sunstorm-
What schools did you apply to? (If that is ok to ask.) I am also an NCSU IS student, so this thread has highlighted my jitters as well. How many years have you applied and been rejected? Your credentials sound amazing.

I actually know a girl who retook all of her pre-reqs to improve her application at NCSU and it did not help her at all. Remember they (NCSU) averages the two grades for the pre-reqs together. Looking back she regrets the decision because she could have obtained her Masters in the same amount of time, and she was not really exposed to anything new. I am not trying to give you advice either way, but I felt it was important to share this knowledge with you.

Stay Encouraged! For now, no news is good news.
 
Sed2bncsudvm,

Rejected from IL, Purdue, Cornell. Applied to those due to lack of grade expiration, program of study that I am interested in, and potential for housing/support in the areas (we own rental property relatively near Cornell, and I have family that lives near Purdue.)

Thank you for the information about the person who tried the pre-req route. I do remember that NCSU averages...but you can also file for grade forgiveness with NCSU (wiping out both the grades and the courses.) My GPA was worse in my first 2 years because I was frustrated working FT while attending classes, and my family wasn't communicating with me at all since I upset my father by leaving state for college (it was an economical decisions, private OOS schools offered me scholarships that reduced my tuition cost to 1/2 of IS tuition where I didn't recieve any scholarships.)

I do really appreciate the information.... that is the kind of thing that helps me make decisions. This is my first application cycle, but I am also a non-trad, so I am 30, married, own a home and rental properties, I put effort into improving my application for the 2 years prior to applying, but in reality, my entire work history is tilted towards veterinary medicine (hence the odd experience hours). I didn't apply fresh out of school because I couldn't afford to with the amount of student debt I had, which didn't change after I took the year long Watson Fellowship. The joys of an eduction system that expects parents to help out, and doens't give any room for parents who refuse any assistance.

I am not sure I am willing to uproot my entire life to pursue a masters at a vet school program. I don't want to commit to a master's program with the intent to get into vet school. I think, if I am going to put time/money/effort into a program I want it to be on a topic that excites me, rather than a topic that is interesting but an aside to vet school. The trick is finding one that is both.... which is what I am researching at the moment.
 
having technical diffculties
 
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QUOTE] I have 1,500 hrs vet experience in exotics
[/QUOTE]

Hi Sumsstorm, how did you manage to get such an immpressive number of hours in zoo vet experience. I've found getting actual vet experience in that field very hard and would love to get more.

BTW your stats sound great. You will get in, no sweat!:)[/quote]
 
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How do you do the quote in blue thing? Should I be worried that I can't figure this out?:oops:
 
of well that's really not what i wanted to do. Sorry, I will stop wasting room on this thread.

But I did get some scipt in blue, just the wrong part:laugh:
 
And I was commenting on the nature of the statement you made, not you personally. If the "very little" that a person knows about you is what you present to them, that's what they will use to interpret your wording. I've been misinterpreted on here plenty of times because I'm often short with people and don't tend to hide my points in flowery, wishy-washy language, like here for example where you assume that I am saying YOU are arrogant when I mean that your statement sounds arrogant.

I have trouble putting exactly what I want to say into words a lot. Everything I try to type in this paragraph comes out more inflammatory than it's intended. The short of it is that I get annoyed when the sole question in this decision seems to be "Will this help me get into vet school?" I feel like that's a consideration to keep in mind, but I like to look at and discuss things in a different way, as an experience with its own separate merits than what it will look like on an application. As much as we all hate to think about the possibility of not ever ending up going to vet school, it could happen. So to me, anything you do "to improve your application" should be something that you would at least consider wanting to do otherwise - who knows, it could end up being the last thing you do, and why would you want to be unhappy?

Nyanko, you are a bright individual, so I don't really believe you are completly oblivious when you use incindiary language and I don't believe it serves anyone well. If you aren't sure what someone is saying, asking is a far easier way to clarify.

I am an advocate of planning life as if you don't know what will happen tomorrow, and I have had a lot of practice in not knowing. I have had the enlightening oppurtunity to embrace death. Casting a net of criticism doesn't help either of us. If someone wants to pursue a master's for the sole purpose of improving their application, I believe they need to be honest about that with the PI and program that they will work with. I am not going to say it is unreasonable (I took courses in college that didn't benefite me because they are required at vet school, which differs only in duration and depth from taking a degree for that purpose) as long as an applicant is willing to accept the issues inherent in that decision, which may include failure to gain admissions.

I sincerly believe in living life to the fullest by embracing experience, which my signature implies. I do realize that I may not end up in vet school. I have come pretty far for both parents being high-school drop outs. What you didn't understand is that part of the reason I struggle with the decisions concerning masters programs is BECAUSE I do not want to pursue research as part and parcel of an application process, but that I wanted to know what was out there, and if that was/is my only real resource if I do want to improve my application.

I have not determined whether I would pursue masters programs if that is my only option for improving my application. I do think I need to know, realisticly, what programs do exist that are targeted to improve vet school admissions and how much weight would be given to the masters in the application process. This was a simple process of information gathering so that I could make intelligent decisions. If that information gathering bothers you, or you feel that my comments are extremly arrogant, why even respond?

Finally, I have been happy studying light shock on maize germination, rare male mate selection, conspecific accuracy in eliciting aggresive responses, rookery abandonment, nest selection, allometric growth curves, neuron degeneration, perkinje cell conductivity, sodium neural response, behavior reinforrcement, tissue toxicity, kidney function, and a few others. I am a geek at heart that loves to discover new topics. I have some that I prefer over others, and in all reality, I would be very content to have a life where I move from one research lab to another learning new things (but that isn't very realistic in our specialist society.) I enjoy research for the experience of critical analysis, discovery, and continued questioning. I am such a geek that I recently helped a Zumba instructor put together a study on motivation as determined by heart rate changes.

Conducting research wouldn't make me unhappy...I wouldn't regret it being the last thing I ever did with my life. What I might regret is pursueing a degree that I don't actually care about at the expense (not just fiscally) of my husband/family. That is why, in the original message, I was trying to determine the cost/benefit ratios for re-taking courses and for masters programs with and without thesis if the goal is to get into vet school. Vet school was a parameter. I have not determined yet if I will apply again if I am not accepted into NCSU (or Penn). I needed to evaluate this information first to decide what the cost/benefit ratio is for reapplication. I am considering a variety of routes in my life, and using vet school as a parameter for this question is valid, especially on a list aimed at vet school applicants. That does not mean I will not consider grad schools on other parameters, when I have decided whether or not to pursue another application to vet school.
 
I have 1,500 hrs vet experience in exotics (zoo).

One more try.

So again, just wondering about ways in which you got so much vet zoo experience.

and again good luck!:luck:

Yay, I did it. I really did try to delete my 5 other unsuccessful posts, but, apparently this is not allowed so please just ignore them. Persesitance pays.
 
QUOTE] I have 1,500 hrs vet experience in exotics

Hi Sumsstorm, how did you manage to get such an immpressive number of hours in zoo vet experience. I've found getting actual vet experince in that field very hard and would love to get more.

BTW your stats sound great. You will get in, no sweat!:)[/quote][/quote]

Wildzoovet, I worked as a curator at the Louisiana Purchase Gardens & Zoo. It isn't an easy position to obtain and the hours tend to be long and stressful. I actually had to track hours because I worked for a city, and during the winters I averaged 56 hours/wk, spring and fall 67 hours/wk, and summer 81hrs/wk. I actually had a cot in my office and slept at the zoo a few nights a week in the summer (and no, I didn't count that time as working!)

I was responsible for a hands-on contact collection of exotic animals (thinks like kinkajous, coatimundi, armadillos, owls, alligators, etc.) which included designing and implementing husbandry programs and maintaining general wellness. I worked with our zoo vet (he tracked which hours he spent in what department) an average of 7 hours a week (again, variable by season) and observed or assisted an average of 3 hours a week in other departments (again tracked by his records.) The work in other areas of the zoo was generally due to something unusual happening (we had to pin together a shattered leg on a puma) or something that required a lot of hands in the effort (routine physicals of primates where the entire troop needed to be knocked down together, examined individually, then aroused under observation.) So, I averaged 10 hours a week x 50 weeks a year x 3 yrs.

My best advice for getting face time with a zoo vet is to ask to observe without hands on. Be prepared to be a go-for. Pick smaller zoos to try, because bigger zoos are more concerned about liability. If you have any contacts with anyone in the government that owns a zoo, go that route (even if that contact is uncle jimmy's friend james went to school with director of human resources) because we had people schlepped on us all the time due to such contacts (and if you don't have such contacts, try to figure out who the zoo director answers to, or a major donor, or someone working in the zoo....favors and good PR mean a lot) and while it annoyed us, if they turned out to be a really hard working, cheerful, on the ball individual, we were happy to keep them around.

Liability is a HUGE issue for zoos, and well meaning people are the worst about doing stupid things around exotic animals. And don't share how much you 'love' animals of any sort. Generally, and this is also true during animal rescue operations post disaster, people who love animals often are just clueless. I would focus on your willingness to be hands off and just observe, your willingness to do data mining for vets (ie when the sloth gets sick, you would be willing to sit at a computer tracking down what zoos have sloths, who their vets are, and then place tons of calls asking staff to have the vet call back to speak to Dr. soandso), and your interest in exotic veterinary medicine as a field. Reading up on some of the hot topics in zoos is another thing (exhibitving vs ranging, insemination issues, genetic issues, conservation, importation, etc.)

Also, if you are in a zoo, never get in the way during procedures. That sounds obvious, but if your removing a single animal from a multianimal unit, it can be really hard. We gracefully exited more volunteers from zoo keeper and vet areas becaues they were in the way than anything else. And, just like I say for shadowing, showing that you are willing to give something back can make a difference. We had some freshman do a very basic report on the duck species in our lagoon, get an A, sent a copy to our director, and end up getting some face time with our vet.
 
This is somewhat of a shot in the dark, but... with such great stats, maybe you should think about taking a writing course and work on your personal statement and/or work on your interviewing skills?

I can't imagine that your GPA is holding you back with such diverse and extensive experience.

(I know this isn't really what you asked for, but I don't know anything about Master's programs and it just popped into my head).
 
Optimistic, I do plan on doing reviews....just have to wait till the app cycle is over, which is past some of the app/fin aid dates, so I was mostly trying to evaluate the usefullness of pursueing such a course of action. I think, at this point in time, I have decided that it isn't really functional for me, due to additional costs in money, time, family, etc.

That doesn't mean I don't think these programs are wonderful and/or a great option...just that I don't think they fit with my plans at this juncture in my life. I can always revisit this as an option in the future.
 
I sincerely hope you don't have to worry about it, sumstorm. NCSU can still come through, easily, after all it's your in-state right?
 
This is somewhat of a shot in the dark, but... with such great stats, maybe you should think about taking a writing course and work on your personal statement and/or work on your interviewing skills?

I can't imagine that your GPA is holding you back with such diverse and extensive experience.

(I know this isn't really what you asked for, but I don't know anything about Master's programs and it just popped into my head).

CurrySpice, I actually posted my PS on here some time ago (before Oct 2), and it is good enough that several members remember it in a fair amount of detail a month ago (which suprised me.) I actually had a few excellent editors go over my personal statement, so I am confident that the writing was strong. Whether or not it really suits adcoms may be an issue, but a writing class won't help that.

Since I haven't received an interview, I don't think it is my interviewing skills that are questionable (at least as part of this admissions process.)

I do, now, wish that I had mentioned in my personal statement that I was one of less than a handful of students certified by an external agency to tutor in all of the cores sciences, plus several other subjects, including math/calculus. To obtain those certifications, the same professors that gave me C's in class had to write strong letters of recommendation, which is indicative of how confident they are that I know the subject material (and how willing I was to evaluate errors on exams.) Good lesson for next time.

I may still get in....I am just trying to keep avenues open, evaluate them before deadlines are past.
 
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