Match lists 2015

[RadsonRads]

That's neither here nor there, you have to be a "competitive applicant" for every field with respect to the average stats of that field.

Rads is not very competitive at the moment and those high-stat applicants you talk about are often choosing other fields.

My point is that you can't have FM scores and stats and try to match rads. Not going to happen.

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[SLC]

My point is that you can't have FM scores and stats and try to match rads. Not going to happen.

I have friends who matched it this year and could argue differently. But we've gone off topic so I'll leave it alone now.

 

[referee3]

Anyone have msucom and pcom-pa lists?

 

[DopaDO]

KCOM had a guy match integrated plastics at Mayo. That is probably the greatest match I've ever seen from a DO.

 

[LawlasaurusRex]

WesternU COMP - Pomona and Lebanon (combined, incomplete)

 

[cliquesh]

I think the 53% was for independent applicants, which would include DO's and their 79% match rate. The numbers for Carribbean grads are probably far lower.

I think this issue has been clarified already, but it's on table 4 http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ADT2015_final.pdf

 

[moonwake]

The residents might not have anything against them, but mark my words, there is a deep seated bias against DO's that permeates through the enitire UofU system.

I believe it - half the reason why I didn't even apply there. I shadowed 2 residents at primary childrens and IM at U of U hospital. I loved primary childrens but I hated U of U's hospital and medical school. All of their computers there are almost 10 years old. Aka... I went into their medical school library and I couldn't even check my gmail. It crashed their safari- and kept switching comps thinking it was just that comp only to find they all sucked. The actual hospital in some parts looks haunted- oh and the snooty "air" of those medical students just represents SLC in general. There's a huge "we're better than you" feeling all over SLC whether your from Provo, somewhere else, or any other reason for them to put themselves above you.

 

[hallowmann]

What happens to the other 20%? That's a huge number?? That's like a carib match rate

You're talking about matching into the NRMP (i.e. ACGME) match. You're not even counting the AOA match. Also, placement rates for DO is something like >98%. There is a difference between placement and match rates.

Including the AOA match, the DO match rate is probably something like 85%-90%, but its impossible to calculate without more data that simply is not present. US citizen IMG match rates are 53%, and the majority of those people are Carib grads. From the last NRMP report on international grads, the best Carib school match rate was something like 67%. Who knows what the placements for Carib grads are...

I think the 53% was for independent applicants, which would include DO's and their 79% match rate. The numbers for Carribbean grads are probably far lower.

53% was for US-IMGs. non-US IMGs was something like 49%.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

What happens to the other 20%? That's a huge number?? That's like a carib match rate

First of all, Caribbean match rate is lower than that. That's even if you account for their ridiculously high attrition rate. Second, you need to understand that match rate is not the same as placement rate. Placement rate for DOs is near 100 %, after scrambling for AOA and SOAPing for ACGME I filled positions. Nearly everyone who finishes med school in the US, MD or DO, eventually get a residency spot, whether through the official match or thru scrambling. This is not the case for IMGs. Even at the "big 4" your chances of securing a residency spot is about 50%, if we account for attrition rate and unmatch rate.

Edit: didn't realize that @hallowmann beat me to it

 

[a runner]

Incorrect. There have been fewer applicants than in years passed. That does not equate to less competitive. The 150 spots were all filled in soap by the high score derm, ortho, surgery, ENT folks who didn't match.

Not true. The one person in the SOAP thread in the ERAS forum who SOAP'ed into rads failed to match primary care and failed CK. Maybe in the past the surgical subspecialty rejects filled all the open rads spots when there used to be only 20-60 every year, but not anymore.

Even last year, when there were half as many unfilled spots, there were several EM rejects who SOAP'ed into rads spots.

 

[SLC]

I believe it - half the reason why I didn't even apply there. I shadowed 2 residents at primary childrens and IM at U of U hospital. I loved primary childrens but I hated U of U's hospital and medical school. All of their computers there are almost 10 years old. Aka... I went into their medical school library and I couldn't even check my gmail. It crashed their safari- and kept switching comps thinking it was just that comp only to find they all sucked. The actual hospital in some parts looks haunted- oh and the snooty "air" of those medical students just represents SLC in general. There's a huge "we're better than you" feeling all over SLC whether your from Provo, somewhere else, or any other reason for them to put themselves above you.

Which is sad, because I'm a huge UofU sports fan, went there for undergrad and had a good experience too. But the Med-School, I'll agree that they are very full of themselves. It's a huge turnoff actually, I can't wait till I get requests for donations from the university and I can send the requests back with a note about how their Med-establishment cost them any contributions I otherwise would have happily given.

 

[RadsonRads]

Not true. The one person in the SOAP thread in the ERAS forum who SOAP'ed into rads failed to match primary care and failed CK. Maybe in the past the surgical subspecialty rejects filled all the open rads spots when there used to be only 20-60 every year, but not anymore.

Even last year, when there were half as many unfilled spots, there were several EM rejects who SOAP'ed into rads spots.

Failed to match FM? Man that takes talent. Also, where did they end up? Some awful community program?

 

[NurWollen]

The residents might not have anything against them, but mark my words, there is a deep seated bias against DO's that permeates through the enitire UofU system.

I believe it - half the reason why I didn't even apply there. I shadowed 2 residents at primary childrens and IM at U of U hospital. I loved primary childrens but I hated U of U's hospital and medical school. All of their computers there are almost 10 years old. Aka... I went into their medical school library and I couldn't even check my gmail. It crashed their safari- and kept switching comps thinking it was just that comp only to find they all sucked. The actual hospital in some parts looks haunted- oh and the snooty "air" of those medical students just represents SLC in general. There's a huge "we're better than you" feeling all over SLC whether your from Provo, somewhere else, or any other reason for them to put themselves above you.

I had a friend who is in a solid peds residency back east. When he was an MS3 he tried to set up a sub-I for 4th year at Utah. He was told their peds department doesn't take DOs. When he asked why, he was told it was because "they didn't have the funding to take DO students."

What bugs me the most is that Utah isn't a top tier institution, and he wasn't even applying for a highly competitive specialty. Yesterday, people from AZCOM matched into peds at Cincinnati Childrens' Hospital and Mayo-Rochester, which I think based on reputation most people would take over UofU in a heartbeat.

 

[a runner]

Taking a SOAPer with a 250 step 1 does not equal lowering standards. Radiology has an incredibly hard written board exam in residency. They will never lower their applicant standards to someone with a 210 step 1 just because they have fewer applicants. They will simply take the other overqualified SOAPers

Rads only received 1141 applicants for 1132 this year. Only 680 US MD seniors applied. The reason so many spots were unfilled is because there were barely enough applicants to fill those spots even if they took every single (except 9) of the hundreds of IMG's. So the unfilled spots were likely because some of those IMG's were poor candidates, but US MD seniors and DO's should have a near 100% match rate in allo rads. Last year US MD seniors had a match rate of over 99%.

You say they won't lower standards, but then why did PD's take 73 out of 79 US MD seniors with a step 1 score of 220 or less? US MD seniors with a step 1 in the 201-210 range had a 92% match rate last year, and this year was even less competitive than last year. Even independent applicants (most of which are IMG's) matched 30 people (55% match rate) with a step 1 score between 191-210. So the idea that PD's won't consider an applicant for rads because they have a 210 step 1 is ludicrous. They simply don't have enough US MD and DO applicants and are forced to take a large number of IMG's.

 

[RadsonRads]

Rads only received 1141 applicants for 1132 this year. Only 680 US MD seniors applied. The reason so many spots were unfilled is because there were barely enough applicants to fill those spots even if they took every single (except 9) of the hundreds of IMG's. So the unfilled spots were likely because some of those IMG's were poor candidates, but US MD seniors and DO's should have a near 100% match rate in allo rads. Last year US MD seniors had a match rate of over 99%.

You say they won't lower standards, but then why did PD's take 73 out of 79 US MD seniors with a step 1 score of 220 or less? US MD seniors with a step 1 in the 201-210 range had a 92% match rate last year, and this year was even less competitive than last year. Even independent applicants (most of which are IMG's) matched 30 people (55% match rate) with a step 1 score between 191-210. So the idea that PD's won't consider an applicant for rads because they have a 210 step 1 is ludicrous. They simply don't have enough US MD and DO applicants and are forced to take a large number of IMG's.

I like the stats! I have to give you credit for that. Keep in mind like any other specialty, there are plenty of lower tier programs out there. Mostly community programs in undesirable locations that will do anything to fill their spots so they don't lose funding. This is why many of these programs have lower board passing rates than the higher tiers.

 

[a runner]

I like the stats! I have to give you credit for that. Keep in mind like any other specialty, there are plenty of lower tier programs out there. Mostly community programs in undesirable locations that will do anything to fill their spots so they don't lose funding. This is why many of these programs have lower board passing rates than the higher tiers.

Good points, I agree. I think it's a great opportunity for DO's with low to average stats who truly want radiology to get in at low to mid tier places, whereas a few years ago that was nearly impossible. Curious for the full match report to come out in a few weeks to see how many DO's matched rads this year (vs 94, 79, 59, 62, 38 the last 5 years).

 

[RadsonRads]

Good points, I agree. I think it's a great opportunity for DO's with low to average stats who truly want radiology to get in at low to mid tier places, whereas a few years ago that was nearly impossible. Curious for the full match report to come out in a few weeks to see how many DO's matched rads this year (vs 94, 79, 59, 62, 38 the last 5 years).

Probably a good number. I know of 7 from my school alone

 

[TheFuture_22]

Good points, I agree. I think it's a great opportunity for DO's with low to average stats who truly want radiology to get in at low to mid tier places, whereas a few years ago that was nearly impossible. Curious for the full match report to come out in a few weeks to see how many DO's matched rads this year (vs 94, 79, 59, 62, 38 the last 5 years).

Does anyone know a reason for the decline in competitiveness? Is the job market really that bad if you were willing to work anywhere?

 

[RadsonRads]

Does anyone know a reason for the decline in competitiveness? Is the job market really that bad if you were willing to work anywhere?

No. If people can't get high paying jobs in NYC, LA, or Chicago then all the sudden the job market is worst on the planet

 

[NurWollen]

No. If people can't get high paying jobs in NYC, LA, or Chicago then all the sudden the job market is worst on the planet

What? You mean to tell me there is an America outside of NYC, LA, and Chicago?

 

[SLC]

What? You mean to tell me there is an America outside of NYC, LA, and Chicago?

Yes, it's called Boston, SF, Seattle.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

I matched my first choice in Rads. Best friend at my school matched a very good university MD ortho spot. I have had a very good freaking week.

 

[NurWollen]

Yes, it's called Boston, SF, Seattle.

Well, of course there are actual rads jobs in middle america. You need Internet access before your can replace them with a telerads service.

 

[TheFuture_22]

I matched my first choice in Rads. Best friend at my school matched a very good university MD ortho spot. I have had a very good freaking week.

Congrats! DOs seem to have fared well this match. Hopefully, this is a sign of things to come for my class in 2017.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

Congrats! DOs seem to have fared well this match. Hopefully, this is a sign of things to come for my class in 2017.

Things are rapidly changing. I went into DO school thinking I'd have to be a stud to get any rads program whatsoever. I left it rejecting interviews left and right, and not even ranking programs I didnt like. Then I got my preferred spot in Manhattan, where for Rads at least, many programs are notoriously anti-DO. If you are a competitive applicant, my advice is to aim higher than you think is reasonable, because you may find yourself pleasantly surprised.

 

[Para-dox]

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ADT2015_final.pdf

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ADT2015_final.pdf

At earliest 2020.

My apologies, I thought I looked through this file quite thoroughly. Must have missed that table.

 

[RadsonRads]

Things are rapidly changing. I went into DO school thinking I'd have to be a stud to get any rads program whatsoever. I left it rejecting interviews left and right, and not even ranking programs I didnt like. Then I got my preferred spot in Manhattan, where for Rads at least, many programs are notoriously anti-DO. If you are a competitive applicant, my advice is to aim higher than you think is reasonable, because you may find yourself pleasantly surprised.

x2 to everything you said for me too!

 

[hse]

I can't be certain UofU ER has never had a DO before. But they haven't since I have been watching. It's generally speaking a very DO unfriendly place from top to bottom. Anesthesia, PM&R, FM, and IM have had them in the past but even there DO's have been few and far between.

I thought about trying to do an ER rotation at the UofU this past year only to find out they won't allow DO's, and they've also locked DO's out of the community hospital ER's the residency is affiliated with.

if they're denying privileges based on degree, they could lose medicare eligibility with the feds... it's a shame because there are many people from utah in do schools

 

[SLC]

if they're denying privileges based on degree, they could lose medicare eligibility with the feds... it's a shame because there are many people from utah in do schools

There are DO's practicing in the UofU system. And they even matched a few DO's this year in PM&R, Gas, and EM this year.

But they are in general one of the least DO friendly institutions I've encountered. My friend called their FM dept to inquire about applying for residency and was essentially told he was barking up the wrong tree since they are an MD institution. We're both from Utah, >10% of my class is from Utah for that matter.

 

[NurWollen]

I wonder if there is any one person who is responsible for Utah's anti-DO slant or if it's just the culture of the people who run the school. Maybe it's an overreaction to the alternative health fads (essential oils, anyone?) that are prominent in the state. If they are anti-DO because of that, they don't know enough DOs.

FWIW, Utah produces more DO applicants than any other state per capita.

 

[SLC]

I wonder who, specifically, is responsible for Utah's anti-DO bias, if there is any one person or if it's just the culture of the people who run the school.

Utah produces more DO applicants than any other state per capita.

There's an air of "our $&@? don't stink" at Utah SOM. If there's someone to look down on, they'll do it.

And all of this pains me to admit because I'm very pro-UofU in almost every other way. The undergrad education is actually quite good and I had a great experience there.

Perhaps ironically, but it was UofU medical students who helped me solidify the decision to apply DO. They almost uniformly shared that they absolutely hated the school and encouraged me not to apply, or to go elsewhere if possible. Even my mentor, who did residency there after going to med school back east told me it was not the place to go to school if I had other options.

 

[Roxas]

There's an air of "our $&@? don't stink" at Utah SOM. If there's someone to look down on, they'll do it.

And all of this pains me to admit because I'm very pro-UofU in almost every other way. The undergrad education is actually quite good and I had a great experience there.

Perhaps ironically, but it was UofU medical students who helped me solidify the decision to apply DO. They almost uniformly shared that they absolutely hated the school and encouraged me not to apply, or to go elsewhere if possible. Even my mentor, who did residency there after going to med school back east told me it was not the place to go to school if I had other options.

I had a very similar experience

 

[user3]

@meliora27 how did DO's do in the IM match this year? Anyone break past mid tier programs?

 

[sazerac]

Not sure why we are ragging on UofUtah in this thread, but so long as we are... did anybody else get turned off by their overly complicated application & qualification process? It had so many categories, with so many points per category, in this huge table that was so confusing that I never even finished my application. Anybody who makes it that difficult to apply to just isn't worth my time.

 

[SLC]

@meliora27 how did DO's do in the IM match this year? Anyone break past mid tier programs?

RVUCOM put someone at OHSU. I'd call that upper tier. But they've taken DO's fairly regularly.

 

[W19]

Taking a SOAPer with a 250 step 1 does not equal lowering standards. Radiology has an incredibly hard written board exam in residency. They will never lower their applicant standards to someone with a 210 step 1 just because they have fewer applicants. They will simply take the other overqualified SOAPers

2014 charting the outcomes--page 62

92.4% match rate for step1 score between 181-220 does not seem competitive to me. Radiology is not competitive anymore due to the job market...

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf

 

[RadsonRads]

2014 charting the outcomes--page 62

92.4% match rate for step1 score between 181-220 does not seem competitive to me. Radiology is not competitive anymore due to the job market...

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf

Ok bro. You try to match at a decent university program with a 200 step 1 and let me know how that works out for you.

 

[W19]

Ok bro. You try to match at a decent university program with a 200 step 1 and let me know how that works out for you.

Moving the goalposts! People weren't talking about matching at Stanford; they were just saying that diag rad is just not competitive anymore... Of course we all know it is not easy to even match into FM or IM at top programs, why would rad be different?

 

[235009]

RVUCOM put someone at OHSU. I'd call that upper tier. But they've taken DO's fairly regularly.

OHSU is a mid tier program by anyone's estimation

Interesting how different this thread is than the one in the allo form. Flipping though dozens of posts without a single match list posted and people bragging about 1-2 matches from graduating classes of 200-300 as if that means anything.

Congrats to all those who matched!

 

[MiaMia14]

I think DO schools aren't quite as quick getting the match lists out also.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

OHSU is a mid tier program by anyone's estimation

Interesting how different this thread is than the one in the allo form. Flipping though dozens of posts without a single match list posted and people bragging about 1-2 matches from graduating classes of 200-300 as if that means anything.

Congrats to all those who matched!

Its only interesting in that you use it to put us down, when the reality is most schools havent released a match list yet, but a lot of us are excited and proud of ourselves and our colleagues.

 

[TopTomato]

OHSU is a mid tier program by anyone's estimation

Interesting how different this thread is than the one in the allo form. Flipping though dozens of posts without a single match list posted and people bragging about 1-2 matches from graduating classes of 200-300 as if that means anything.

Congrats to all those who matched!

By that logic nobody should be proud of Jackie Robinson either, "he was just ONE guy, as if that means anything"

 

[235009]

By that logic nobody should be proud of Jackie Robinson either, "he was just ONE guy, as if that means anything"

DOs are not "discriminated" against and getting your foot in the door of some random residency program sometimes based on your parent's connections is not the same as overcoming racism and segregation.

The DO schools can release their match lists on match day like 100% of US MD schools do. The reason they don't is because the 20% who don't match in the NRMP match are still trying to scramble into AOA positions.

 

[NontradCA]

OHSU is a mid tier program by anyone's estimation

Interesting how different this thread is than the one in the allo form. Flipping though dozens of posts without a single match list posted and people bragging about 1-2 matches from graduating classes of 200-300 as if that means anything.

Congrats to all those who matched!

For the last two years, you say the same thing in these threads. How insecure are you that you need to minimize what others do? I think I speak for most of us when I say **** Off.

 

[TopTomato]

DOs are not "discriminated" against and getting your foot in the door of some random residency program sometimes based on your parent's connections is not the same as overcoming racism and segregation.

The DO schools can release their match lists on match day like 100% of US MD schools do. The reason they don't is because the 20% who don't match in the NRMP match are still trying to scramble into AOA positions.

Because of course that's the only explanation for DOs matching good places . Same could be said for anybody MD or DO

 

[RadsonRads]

Moving the goalposts! People weren't talking about matching at Stanford; they were just saying that diag rad is just not competitive anymore... Of course we all know it is not easy to even match into FM or IM at top programs, why would rad be different?

The applicants in the range you mention, match at some of the worst community programs imaginable. Not even the worst university program will take applicants that poor. I know it sounds like I'm shifting goalposts, but the avg step 1 is still >240. There are always going to be some outliers

 

[TheFuture_22]

OHSU is a mid tier program by anyone's estimation

Interesting how different this thread is than the one in the allo form. Flipping though dozens of posts without a single match list posted and people bragging about 1-2 matches from graduating classes of 200-300 as if that means anything.

Congrats to all those who matched!

Go away.

 

[NurWollen]

Oh, look everyone! MeatTornado is here to remind us all of our inferiority!

 

[W19]

The applicants in the range you mention, match at some of the worst community programs imaginable. Not even the worst university program will take applicants that poor. I know it sounds like I'm shifting goalposts, but the avg step 1 is still >240. There are always going to be some outliers

The average step1 is > 240 because there is self selection in play... I have nothing against rad, but if a specialty has less applicants than open spots and there are a bunch of low tier programs, it won't be competitive period... Rad step1 average score is close to derm, ortho, ENT etc..., but you don't see below average step1 score match at such a high rate in these specialties... Believe it or not, PD have to fill these spots...


There is trend and it does not look good: In the 2009 charting the outcomes, scores less than 221 had a match rate of 60% , 2014 the match rate went up to 92.4%, and that does not tell you anything!

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf page 49.

 

[hse]

Lol..... as usual, a do school match list is entirely worthless without a stamp of approval or concurring opinion from an "expert" or two pissing down from their troll bridge.... in sdn-land, anyone not trained by a top 20 academic center is an incompetent doctor..

seriously, a match is all that matters....you're going to get a paycheck to do what you want and repay your loan and contribute to society... congratulations to all.