match results 2012

Discussion in 'Osteopathic' started by DocEspana, 03.16.12.

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  1. necronomicon

    necronomicon 5+ Year Member

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    Just for the sake of questioning: what would the negative impact be if one did their residency in the "random 200 bed community program?" I certainly wouldn't prefer this, but with the difficulty that DO's face in matching competitive fields (even talking about gen surg), what would the downsides to a poor residency location be, aside from general unhappiness. Upon graduation, would the prospects for hire be any better/worse or are you talking about purely the level of skills the surgeon/clinician would have following a poor residency placement?
     
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  3. scotchtapetest

    scotchtapetest 5+ Year Member

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    If you want to enter private practice, it makes very little difference where you do residency; If you want to enter into academics/research then it makes a huge difference.

    As I specified in my post, I was mainly talking about educational opportunities/skills (which are fairly important). Also don't underestimate the happiness factor. That's at the very least 3 years of your 20s/30s. You have to be able to look back 10 years later and not think you were unhappy/abused for 3 years in what is supposed to be some of the best years of your life.

    These generalizations are just that, generalizations and don't apply to individuals. One can certainly go to a 200 bed community program and come out with great skills and land a great fellowship and then with a great academic job (very much possible but greatly unlikely)...
     
  4. LSU Alex

    LSU Alex The only good lawyer is a sick one... 5+ Year Member

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    This is what I am referring to when I say guidelines. I was under the impression that the ACP has an equivalent. Am I mistaken?

    http://www.acoi.org/doclib/doclib_popup.cgi?file=342-e60d5a40ef0dfef83a8fd27751409007.pdf
     
  5. scotchtapetest

    scotchtapetest 5+ Year Member

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    ACP doesn't or if it does they are not binding... on the ACGME side, the programs are only responsible for guidelines by ACGME and the specialty board (e.g. ABIM for IM).

    Specialty boards (e.g. ABIM) mainly focus on the certification part... ACGME is the organization in charge of setting the standards.

    Edit: I stand corrected with regards to the AOA side and will edit my original post to reflect that. Thanks for pointing it out!
     
    Last edited: 03.25.12
  6. LSU Alex

    LSU Alex The only good lawyer is a sick one... 5+ Year Member

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    I agree with this statement. I did my 3rd year core rotations at a new DO IM program in north MS (they graduated their 1st class as I was taking Step 2). This was a small 169-bed community hospital. One of the residents decided he was going to work his butt off during his 3 years and made it to a cardiology fellowship in Chicago. So again, there are always opportunities and possibilities. You have to decide how much effort you are willing to give no matter what the circumstances are.
     
  7. the alchemist

    the alchemist Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    hopkins anes though not initially seems to be becoming more DO friendly. we've had 3 go in the last 2 years (incl one this year to their research track and one just reg anes).
     
    Last edited: 03.26.12
  8. dav86

    dav86 7+ Year Member

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    CCOM Match List 2012, looks pretty decent
     

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  9. Vancomycin12

    Vancomycin12 MS-II

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    ACGME ophtho match is pretty impressive...
     
  10. necronomicon

    necronomicon 5+ Year Member

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    Two of them, no less. Three DO uro surg, too. Not their best match but some really solid programs in there.
    The list seems incomplete, though. CCOM graduates ~200 each year and there are only like 175 on the list. Then again, I could be missing something.
     
  11. JeetKuneDo

    JeetKuneDo 7+ Year Member

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    Yeah, crazy. 2 ACGME optho, one at U of Chicago. I was hoping to see a cook county EM, I wonder if they're making it harder for DO's to match there.
     
  12. DrMediterranean

    DrMediterranean 2+ Year Member

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  13. rad0nc

    rad0nc 2+ Year Member

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    That is a great match list. The University of Chicago Ophtho spot is excellent, and the PM&R spot at RIC is the best in that field.
     
  14. dav86

    dav86 7+ Year Member

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    I tried, but was unsuccessful, thought I am real happy with IU. They take DOs, I don't know how many they took this year, but they have a chief resident from CCOM and a third year from CCOM, and about 2-3 DOs per class, so I am pretty sure they still take them. From what I know about Cook, you need 2 SLORs to get an interview plus good scores. I think rotating there is very important, so if thats something you are interested in I would suggest setting one up when the time comes.
     
  15. dav86

    dav86 7+ Year Member

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    Na class sizes through our class were 160-175 as far as I know. They upped the class size to 200 for class of 2013 and rumored to be upping it again in the future to 250ish.
     
  16. DarkHorizon

    DarkHorizon 7+ Year Member

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    Congrats , IU is just as badass as cook county, except not in Chicago
     
  17. JeetKuneDo

    JeetKuneDo 7+ Year Member

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    Congrats on IU!
     
  18. doublefrick

    doublefrick 2+ Year Member

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    What's wrong with KYCOM?
     
  19. necronomicon

    necronomicon 5+ Year Member

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    Nothing at all. They are probably referring to the fact that KYCOM's waitlist doesn't (historically) see a lot of movement.
     
  20. doublefrick

    doublefrick 2+ Year Member

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    But I'm asking about matches, not waitlist movement...
     
  21. DrMaximus

    DrMaximus PGY1; CA-0 5+ Year Member

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  22. DocEspana

    DocEspana Bullish 5+ Year Member

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    If you dont know, then its better off I don't tell you

    I assume he's actually referring to the ridiculously terrible reputation their clinical years have on this forum. I cant comment on the veracity of it. But I'll say that I've added fuel to the fire since every experience I've had with KYCOM students has involved them telling me horror stories about their core rotations. But the n=3 or 4 for me. And I can think of plenty more than 3 people in my school who'd give poorly representative horror stories. I'm trying to be diplomatic about this.
     
  23. doublefrick

    doublefrick 2+ Year Member

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    I understand and am not taking offense. I just want to have all the info I can is all. So it is just the rotations that are bad like bad patient encounters or being unprepared or residency? I want to be able to land a good residency if I would graduate from here.
     
  24. Doctor4Life1769

    Doctor4Life1769 **tr0llin, ridin dirty** 7+ Year Member

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    Received your PM.

    Anyways. I did do some rotations alongside folks from that school. They couldn't tell a head from an ass if their lives depended on it. Had a few attendings tell me their impression of DOs was incredibly low from their experience dealing with those students til they had folks from my school rotate with these same attendings. You never see a KYCOM match list on SDN. they're awful from what I understand. they don't do shelves (if i remember correctly), their rotations are awful. I dont know much about the first two years, but their main perks are the freebies they give out.
     
  25. LSU Alex

    LSU Alex The only good lawyer is a sick one... 5+ Year Member

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    Similar experience with Pikeville students, and similar responses from attendings. I can't speak for them all, but there's enough negativity out there that I've had residents and attendings ask "You aren't from Pikeville, are you?" before I can even tell them my home school.
     
  26. Doctor4Life1769

    Doctor4Life1769 **tr0llin, ridin dirty** 7+ Year Member

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    they confused you for a pikeville student?

    talk about the ultimate zing.
     
  27. DocEspana

    DocEspana Bullish 5+ Year Member

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    Pretty much exactly what I've heard too. I will add that the students I talked to said that their pre-clinical was fine but that it had no formal clinical skills education and/or there was no education on how to apply the basic science knowledge to actual patients. They said that the step/level I boards blindsided them and the 3rd year clinicals were all either at backwater places with pathetic patient loads and no teaching, or at one or two big hospitals where they generally felt underprepared and had little support from the parent school.
     
  28. LSU Alex

    LSU Alex The only good lawyer is a sick one... 5+ Year Member

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    It was a "DO = Pikeville" situation. Cause we all know the only osteopathic school in the entire universe is in Pikeville. Thing is there were many DO students from other schools rotating through that program. It was just that the Pikeville students left that bad of an impression. Now I won't go so far as to say the whole school is like that, because I don't know. In any case, to the person who got that acceptance, you should be fine if you work your arse off learning your profession.

    As far as the "zing" goes, my work ethic and desire to improve usually corrects any misgivings about working with a "lowly DO."
     
  29. thepoopologist

    thepoopologist Ph.D in Clinical Meconium 5+ Year Member

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    What types of things have they done?
    I don't go there, I'm just really curious to see how bad a Pikesville student can be.
     
  30. st2205

    st2205 PGY4 7+ Year Member

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    On obgyn they put the speculum into the rectum. If they were to instead insert it into their mouth it would solidify the above comment that they don't know their head from their ass. Never met one myself.
     
  31. DocEspana

    DocEspana Bullish 5+ Year Member

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    :scared:
     
  32. st2205

    st2205 PGY4 7+ Year Member

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    Hyperbole.
     
  33. DocEspana

    DocEspana Bullish 5+ Year Member

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    I just want that image out of my head. Cause I'm imagining straight A-To-M.
     
  34. st2205

    st2205 PGY4 7+ Year Member

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    However, I think "doesn't know head from ass" would be an awesome comment on an eval. I wonder I'd it's ever happened.
     
  35. scpod

    scpod Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Students from Pikeville aren't bad, just because they come from Pikeville. There are less than stellar students at every COM. However, traditionally, many onSDN love to put the other guy down and spread unsubstantiated rumors. Is it because they are bigots? Is it because they are trying to make themselves look better? It's hard to say.

    The simple fact is... if you are willing to put in the work, you can get a good education at any school. You can get a good residency and a great spot as an attending as well. I've had a number of students from many schools rotate through our residency program. There has never been a single one that I don't consider salvagable. The biggest problem that occurs is in attitude. There are quite a few who would never get into my residency due to that. It's fine to be confident, but arrogance will never fly in my book. The thought that a whole school of people is incompetent because of where they go to school is pretty much an arrogant statement, IMHO. This "Oh, I don't know for them all, but every one I met is bad" kind of statement is not acceptable. It's spreading rumor and the authors should be ashamed of themselves for doing it.
     
  36. LSU Alex

    LSU Alex The only good lawyer is a sick one... 5+ Year Member

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    Bolded points:
    1. Absolutely true. Definitely agree. No way around this one. There are stellar and sub-standard students in every med school.

    2. Not just on SDN, but in their med school clicks... well, pretty much any where in life. Which is why people shouldn't look for some one else to validate their existence...

    3. I have echoed this statement over and over. Your education is your own. The name of the school isn't gonna put knowledge in your head or capabilities in your hands. You must work wherever you go... doubly so if you want to be great at whatever you do.

    4. First hand experience is not "rumor". When a group of people from a school develop a history at a hospital that causes attendings not to want to work with said group; there is something going on. Also while generalizing to the entire school may be inappropriate, your experience with small groups can not be ignored.

    As I said previously to the newly minted KYCOM student, work your butt off. Learn everything you can. Get your hands on everything you can. You will fight perceptions that are not of your own doing all throughout life. You don't need anyone but yourself to validate yourself. If you suck, you know it. Work harder and get the help you need. Show you want to improve, and you will. Anyone will be happy to have that type of student/colleague no matter if you're from Pikeville, MeHarry, or Abu's School of Medicine on the Westside... well, maybe not that last one... :rolleyes:
     
  37. DocEspana

    DocEspana Bullish 5+ Year Member

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    I believe it is completely legitimate to pass on direct opinions of students there when you make it clear that you are only echoing the comments of isolated individuals and you're not extrapolating on what they say.

    People who I respect and generally view as leaders of their school (because they are the leaders of the school student body) should be credible enough to repeat their comments if the proper caveats are stated.
     
  38. Doctor4Life1769

    Doctor4Life1769 **tr0llin, ridin dirty** 7+ Year Member

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    blah blah blah.

    never said every single one suck. just the overall rep isn't great and those that my former attendings (and i) had interacted with were poor. lack of basic fund of knowledge, poor in procedures (and hell, i don't exactly consider myself to be a whiz kid in either) but they made me look like a superstar apparently. even those students weren't happy with their educational experience during years 3 and 4.

    how is the view from that high horse of yours?
     
  39. DocEspana

    DocEspana Bullish 5+ Year Member

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  40. poopyhead

    poopyhead 5+ Year Member

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    Has COCA ever stepped in to address this issue?
     
  41. thepoopologist

    thepoopologist Ph.D in Clinical Meconium 5+ Year Member

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    ahaAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA
     
  42. bleeker10

    bleeker10 5+ Year Member

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    COCA plays a big part in this problem.
     
  43. doublefrick

    doublefrick 2+ Year Member

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    How so?
     
  44. ManBroDude

    ManBroDude Half man, half bearpig 5+ Year Member

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    Anyone hear any word on Touro-Nevada? Last year's came out around this time.
     
  45. bleeker10

    bleeker10 5+ Year Member

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    Allowing accreditation of numerous DO schools in recent years without an established clinical education system. Some hospitals have established teaching for the students while others treat the students as a highly educated scut monkey.
     
  46. crmellon

    crmellon

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    Ah, but the scut monkeys look so adorable in those white coats.
     
  47. LSU Alex

    LSU Alex The only good lawyer is a sick one... 5+ Year Member

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    I heard the gunners get cymbals with their white coats... :D
     
  48. crmellon

    crmellon

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    Haha :laugh:, every time one of them gets a pimped question right, they all smack em' together in unison. Does anyone know how much oversight the AOA has on COCA?
     
  49. bleeker10

    bleeker10 5+ Year Member

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    The AOA president visited my school last year and told us that COCA is a separate entity than AOA and the AOA doesn't really have much of a say in things.
     
  50. doublefrick

    doublefrick 2+ Year Member

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    Can the COCA revoke accreditation? Just wondering...
     
  51. DocEspana

    DocEspana Bullish 5+ Year Member

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    yes
     

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