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Mayo, Mn. Vs. Cleveland Clinic for IM?

Discussion in 'Internal Medicine and IM Subspecialties' started by yodaf, Jan 16, 2008.

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  1. yodaf

    yodaf Senior Member

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    I know everyone is going to say it depends on what your individual needs are but I'm desperately looking for some insight into both of these programs. I've looked on Scutwork and the info seems to be pretty stale. It would be great if someone can provide me with some real world information about life as a resident at either of these programs.

    Mayo seems to be more altruistic and Cleveland a bit more commercial, is that mantra extended to the residents as well as the patients.

    Any insight about either program would be appreciated. Even personal opinions would be somewhat helpful.

    Regards,
    Yodaf
  2. yaah

    yaah Boring Administrator

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    Moving this to Internal Medicine forum. I would suspect that they also have discussed these programs before and a search might help.
  3. Linus2007

    Linus2007

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    Both are considered to be 'fellow run' but on both interviews days they didn't seem like they were. Mayo was certainly not fellow run. Mayo is a lot stronger in terms of training and research than Cleveland Clinic. Both have excellent Cardiac fellowships but a telling sign between both of them was the fact that Mayo was happy to recruit there own Cleveland is not. They only had one resident go to the CCF cards and she had a lot of research. The fellowship placements for Mayo are also stronger than Cleveland Clinic. There are a few other things I observed but I would prefer to PM as opposed to post them on the thread.
  4. cv12

    cv12 Resident

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    I can't comment a great deal about the workings of Cleveland Clinic. Mayo certainly has a very strong internal medicine program. I wouldn't say that it is a fellow run program, in fact, I think one of the strengths of the program is the exposure to subspecialty staff. Many hosptial rotations (especially in the 2nd year) are staffed by gastroenterologits, pulmonologists, hematolgists, etc... This really faciliates learning at a fundamental level.

    With regard to fellowship placement, I think Mayo trumps Cleveland here... they have a good reputation for taking their own strong residents whereas Cleveland is notorious for not doing so (makes you question the IM residency program). Anyway, just an opinion, hope it helps.
  5. Adcadet

    Adcadet Long way from Gate 27

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    My information on Cleveland Clinic is second-hand. Even though I have family in the area, I didn't interview at CC. I talked with an IM grad from CC, and he seemed really happy with the program. There seems to be some personality differences between the cards fellows there vs. Mayo, but I would think that's a minor point and again, second-hand information. All I can say is that I've loved the cardiology fellows I've worked with, but that was only in the CCU and then the random fellows I would talk to in the hallways and lounges.

    Not to point out the obvious, but do you want to live in Cleveland, OH, or Rochester, MN? Some people refuse to live in a town of 100,000, but others love the cheap housing, great schools, safe neighborhoods, and everything else that has made Rochester consistently rank as a top place to live.
  6. twizzlers

    twizzlers Member

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  7. orientedtoself

    orientedtoself resident

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    i posted a review of ccf when i interviewed there a couple of years ago. here's the link: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=239826&page=2

    i did not interview at mayo, but mayo does have a better reputation than ccf as far as its im residency goes. fellowships at both ccf and mayo are very good.
  8. Adcadet

    Adcadet Long way from Gate 27

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    Yeah, I've thought a bit about the whole reputation thing, and I'm still not sure how Mayo is perceived by others. Opinions I've heard from patients and doctors alike range from "oh, that's the local hospital, I guess they're OK" to amazing. One cardiology fellow I met at a national meeting told me flat out that I'd get ranked to match at a number of the lesser cardiology fellowships simply because of the Mayo name. Clearly the cardiology fellowship program likes Mayo-trained residents. One of the residents heading elsewhere is going for family reasons, not sure about the rest. Mayo certainly has name recognition, but I get the impression that some of the less informed people outside of academic subspecialty areas don't realize just how much of a major academic medical center it is. We're technically not a university program, but there certainly are very active basic and clinical research labs, a variety of health science students around, and a healthy academic environment. Of the faculty I talked with at my med school, nobody thought I'd be harming my academic future by going to Mayo, some thought that Mayo was amazing and I'd be foolish to not rank it highly, and some of them preferred other well-known programs over Mayo. There are some myths about Mayo out there (probably the biggest myth is the "fellow run" thing, which as I've attempted to point out before, couldn't be farther from the truth if for no other reason is you simply don't work with fellows that often; some people think Mayo is a "community program" which is just silly).

    So, in the end, I'm still not sure if Mayo gets due credit. When I was interviewing I certainly felt that it was one of the top residencies in the country, and while I would say the reputation is generally very good, I sense a bit of anti-Midwest and anti-non-University sentiment at times.
  9. docrocmayo

    docrocmayo

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    Besides the anti-university and anti-midwest sentiment that Mayo Rochester suffers with, the biggest misconception about us is that our clinical training is not strong. Except for being slightly procedurally- deficient than my med school friends and being located in corn country, I am pretty satisfied with my clinical training.
    I rotated at CCF as a medical student. I think their residents, though mostly IMGs, are strong procedure-wise. But CCF has never been a"top 20" residency.
  10. grd7777

    grd7777

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    I interviewed at both places. Both are extremely strong programs. I had an advantage that during my interview day, I had already done a rotation at Cleveland Clinic. What they told me during the interview day was very consistent. The program gets a lot of undeserved criticism mainly from people who have never been here. I am from a midwest medical school, and can tell you from first hand experience that your training will be top notch and the match rate is excellent.

    If you are a US grad, you will easily match from here simply with the name. Unfortunately, a few of the IMGs here though more than qualified, end up having trouble because of visa issues, etc. What's impressive is that most of DO/IMGs here match and that cannot be said for most other programs. I look at the diversity in residents as an advantage and not a sign that the program is weak. What I liked even during my interview, is embracing well qualified students from different backgrounds. One of my interviewees said that they would rather have a outstanding person from a DO school than a below average Allopathic student, just to say they have all US grads, and that to me shows that they are more interested in the person rather than playing a numbers game.

    I also think Mayo is a fantastic place and was impressed with their program, but for me I felt more comfortable in Cleveland and liked the city more.

    My advice would be to trust your own instincts and how you felt during the interview day. All these rankings of residencies do not mean much at the end of the day. With either place, you cannot go wrong as you will have excellent opportunities whatever you decide to do.
  11. tibor75

    tibor75 Member

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    Mayo Clinic is NOT fellow run.

    I can't speak for CC recently. Back in 2000, it was a horrible IM program. Ohio State medical students, even those who rotated through there during their 3/4 years, rarely ended up there.
  12. abefromann

    abefromann Junior Member

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    Well for fellowship prospects you can't do badly at either program. Just interviewed for IM at CC and I can tell you that they take MANY of their own residents for cardiology and GI -- about 50% or so in the past 5 years. Cards and GI are number 1 and 2 in the COUNTRY, respectively.
  13. grd7777

    grd7777

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    Agreed that probably in 2000, things were very different, I was not here, but speaking with staff, they say things are much improved for past 3-4 years. The PDs of subspecialities are very happy with the residency program. I spoke to Cards Associate PD and GI PD a few times this past year, who both commented that they are very impressed with level of residents they are seeing at CC.

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