MBA in the military

[drcarter77]

I'm a junior surgery resident in the Navy, one of my long term goals is to get an MBA for future career goals within the military and after getting out. Does anyone have any experience or advice on getting an MBA while in the military? Specifically in regards to timing of when getting an MBA would make sense and if there is any way to get the military to foot the bill. I have a research year as part of my residency which would make sense as time to work on an MBA but I don't think I could afford it on my one with a wife and two kids even with the generous military pay while in residency.

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[j4pac]

RAM program is likely your only option. But if you do that, you might as well shoot for 20.

 

[backrow]

I don't know exactly the program they used but I know a few senior physicians (most have now screened for CO/XO positions) that have done an MBA program around the time of mid grade to senior O5. You can use TA funding to help pay and the ones I know did mostly online programs from lesser known schools mainly to get the degree in their CV for promotion/selection.

 

[Shikima]

What about a Health Care Administration program compared to MBA? Along with getting your FACHE?

 

[HighPriest]

One of my predicessors actually had the time to do an MBA while in his ADSO at a University that actually had a decent reputation. He was able to do most of his classwork remotely, but had to fly to the University intermittently for various reasons (exams, what-not). That worked because he was willing to drop the cash and leave time (the military paid for none of it), and because he really didn't do a damned thing while he was here. With our previous commanders, that flew. It'd never grow wings today.

Anyway, probably not helpful, but at least I can say: maybe.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

You're joking, right?

Seriously though, if those a$&holes at MEDCOM won't even pay for a single CME course let alone allow you to use PTDY (uncharged leave time), do you think there is anyway they are going to let you pursue an MBA?

DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY if you want to pursue an MBA or have any control over your professional career aspirations. If you are OK living in a s$&@hole location, being paid dirt, being deployed to a warzone and potentially not practicing your specialty (or any aspect of clinical medicine) for 2 years, then by all means sign-up!

 

[Cooperd0g]

There is also an Executive MBA program for shore duty line offiers through the PG school in Monterey. Not sure if it is still going or if you could do it, but it might be worth checking out.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

Way to let the bitterness burn through dude. Fortunately you're wrong.

To the OP (@drcarter77) - I got my masters degree while on my GMO. Distance education works much easier, but if you're in a stable location for a couple years, it is feasible to attend a local program, especially one of the "working adult" programs with night classes that a great many business schools now offer. If you're looking for a full-time residential program, I agree that you're probably out of luck. But there are a great many ways to get an advanced degree without going that route.

I used the Navy Tuition Assistance program. While technically you cannot use TA to get a lower degree than one you already have, they were very liberal with waivers. I submitted a one-page justification of how my masters degree would benefit the Navy, and it was quickly approved with no further questions. You also are able to use your MGIB to fund continuing education while still on active duty (I didn't use this because I'm transferring it to one of my kids).

I recommend you contact your Navy College Office to discuss the various options. For me, the process was very smooth, fully funded, and ultimately allowed me to accomplish what I wanted to do.

Sounds like the Navy is much more accomodating than the army.

I tried to get PTDY while I was still on active duty so I could attend an advanced allergy course, become a fellow with our academy and start an allergy program at out hospital. I explained how this would benefit both the hospital (more $) and patients (wouldn't have to hunt for an ENT or allergist that actually accepted Tricare). I was politely told that not only would there be no funding but that I could use my own leave to do this.

I realize apples to oranges but it just goes to show how (at least) the army values further education.

 

[Gastrapathy]

The detailer was advertising the EMBA program right when I separated. I think it was tuition free with a 2 year commitment (maybe).

 

[Shikima]

Good point. While it doesn't get you a MBA, there is also the War Colleges. I think that gets you a Masters in National Security Studies. I've been told that doctors rarely apply for it (takes you out of clinical practice a full year), but they really like having us there.

Sounds like a good one for HooahDOc with his background in psychiatry
He'll probably want to kick me for suggesting that one....

 

[Cooperd0g]

The detailer was advertising the EMBA program right when I separated. I think it was tuition free with a 2 year commitment (maybe).

It was a two year commitment when I last saw it as well, but it was concurrent so if you do it early, especially if during a favorable GMO tour, it shouldn't increase payback.

 

[deuist]

Same with Tuition Assistance. It is a 2 year payback from the last time that you use it, and runs concurrently with all other obligation.

I never knew that. I will have to look into tuition assistance. I was also going to suggest the G.I. bill as anyone with three years of service can start using it while still on active duty. As far as timing of when to start working on the degree, that is largely dependent upon practice location. When I was deployed, we had so much downtime that many people went through Command and Staff College or War College. I just took a lot of MOOC's in business classes out of interest. Now that I think of it, with enough dedication, someone could complete the Western Governors University MBA during a light enough deployment.

 

[Monty Python]

What about a Health Care Administration program compared to MBA? Along with getting your FACHE?

The three services have a formal, in-residence program for this at Fort Sam Houston (San Antonio). It's jointly run by the Army and Baylor University. Students are sent there on TAD/TDY orders, and there's no academic cost to the student. Over the years I've run into several graduates of this program (usually DFAs/DCAs, also some COs and XOs), all of whom speak very highly of the education and practical experience it gives.

See: http://www.baylor.edu/graduate/mha/

Here the info and Q&A specifically for future students: http://www.baylor.edu/graduate/mha/index.php?id=869225

 

[NavyMedStudent2016]

Way to let the bitterness burn through dude. Fortunately you're wrong.

To the OP (@drcarter77) - I got my masters degree while on my GMO. Distance education works much easier, but if you're in a stable location for a couple years, it is feasible to attend a local program, especially one of the "working adult" programs with night classes that a great many business schools now offer. If you're looking for a full-time residential program, I agree that you're probably out of luck. But there are a great many ways to get an advanced degree without going that route.

I used the Navy Tuition Assistance program. While technically you cannot use TA to get a lower degree than one you already have, they were very liberal with waivers. I submitted a one-page justification of how my masters degree would benefit the Navy, and it was quickly approved with no further questions. You also are able to use your MGIB to fund continuing education while still on active duty (I didn't use this because I'm transferring it to one of my kids).

I recommend you contact your Navy College Office to discuss the various options. For me, the process was very smooth, fully funded, and ultimately allowed me to accomplish what I wanted to do.

I got my MBA while in medical school with hopes of a more administrative role later on in the Navy. Will the Navy value my previously completed MBA?

 

[DeadCactus]

The three services have a formal, in-residence program for this at Fort Sam Houston (San Antonio). It's jointly run by the Army and Baylor University. Students are sent there on TAD/TDY orders, and there's no academic cost to the student. Over the years I've run into several graduates of this program (usually DFAs/DCAs, also some COs and XOs), all of whom speak very highly of the education and practical experience it gives.

See: http://www.baylor.edu/graduate/mha/

Here the info and Q&A specifically for future students: http://www.baylor.edu/graduate/mha/index.php?id=869225

Curious, what's the payback obligation for that program? Are you on AD orders while attending?

 

[TurtleDO2012]

The fort Sam program is a 3 year commitment that is on top of a hpsp or residency payback. The program is local 1 year classroom and then 1 intern like year with a hospital. Some go to just SAMMC, Kaiser, Johns Hopkins, etc. making the slow crawl to 20 and willing to step away from clinical for sometime this program is pretty sweet. You're on AD orders and assigned to the school house.

 

[DeadCactus]

The fort Sam program is a 3 year commitment that is on top of a hpsp or residency payback. The program is local 1 year classroom and then 1 intern like year with a hospital. Some go to just SAMMC, Kaiser, Johns Hopkins, etc. making the slow crawl to 20 and willing to step away from clinical for sometime this program is pretty sweet. You're on AD orders and assigned to the school house.

So 1 year of courses, 1 year of on the job training, and 3 year payback for a 5 year adventure?

 

[TurtleDO2012]

Correct
When I inquired a few years ago it was a 3 year payback on top of any other commitment.

 

[brdlh_15]

Is there a chance that my MBA could be paid for by the army if it can be completed while I am in medical school years?

 

[deuist]

Is there a chance that my MBA could be paid for by the army if it can be completed while I am in medical school years?

No, the regulations specifically prohibit paying for a second degree while in medical school.