MD Friend on LIMDU and getting hosed

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

(Disclaimer, details were left out or change to protect the ID of this individual, he is not at my MTF)
(Second disclaimer, don't try and figure out who this is, or if you know, pretend you don't)

edited to protect the victim.

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[BigNavyPedsGuy]

By the way, there is NO WAY that my civilian hospital would act like this! I once had computer problems and the clinic manager was literally on the phone with IT non-stop until they fixed it while I saw patients.

 

[ArmyTiger]

Does he have a congressman? If you want to go scorched earth, why stop halfway?

 

[Monty Python]

Does he have a congressman? If you want to go scorched earth, why stop halfway?

The Honorable John/Jane Smith from his HOR
US House of Representatives
Washington DC 20515

or

Senator John/Jane Smith
United States Senate
Washington DC 20510

It's soooo much fun watching the command suite scurry about when a time-sensitive CI hits their desk. If your friend is already getting out, this is one way to show the Navy he'll go down fighting to leave with a clean reputation. And I'm sure the BUMED (or NME / NMW) IG would love to hear about this toxic command climate and other impediments to quality patient care, as would Joint Commission.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Meh. The office thing is petty. The military IT slobs are unsolvable. That said, your friend has one thing that is very valuable, her medical license. And they have a large say in how that turns out when she leaves. We are incredibly biased against mental health problems in physicians. I know it's terrible but she should just keep her head down, take her stuff home, do the computer training over and get to work. I think the scorched earth plan puts a lot of faith in the .mil bureaucracy.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Meh. The office thing is petty. The military IT slobs are unsolvable. That said, your friend has one thing that is very valuable, her medical license. And they have a large say in how that turns out when she leaves. We are incredibly biased against mental health problems in physicians. I know it's terrible but she should just keep her head down, take her stuff home, do the computer training over and get to work. I think the scorched earth plan puts a lot of faith in the .mil bureaucracy.

It is worth noting that this is a specialty that uses the office as the sole workspace. It would be equivalent to kicking an GI guy out of the OR and expecting him to practice and do scopes in the computer lab.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

(Disclaimer, details were left out or change to protect the ID of this individual, he is not at my MTF)
(Second disclaimer, don't try and figure out who this is, or if you know, pretend you don't)

[redacted per request]

The command is begging for an ADA complaint.

 

[Shikima]

All sectors of Government service are harsh towards Physicians with any kind of mental disability. We even eat our own kind at the state board level.
My vote, nuclear option including congressmen/senators.

PS, I'd be happy to take care of him in my private clinic.

 

[d2305]

Request COs mast would be less nuclear, and get some attention.

 

[j4pac]

Meh. The office thing is petty. The military IT slobs are unsolvable. That said, your friend has one thing that is very valuable, her medical license. And they have a large say in how that turns out when she leaves. We are incredibly biased against mental health problems in physicians. I know it's terrible but she should just keep her head down, take her stuff home, do the computer training over and get to work. I think the scorched earth plan puts a lot of faith in the .mil bureaucracy.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Getting legal may be a bad idea right now. Recommendations mean very little but the medical licensure issue is legit. I would actually hope that the medical board finds fit.

It is naive to think that medical discrimination doesn't happen in the civilian world. Would the fickle office BS happen? Probably not.

I second him/her taking it for now. He/She could always lawyer up or write Congress after his/her time is up.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

My civilian CMO is on the State Medical Board here. He said that "Gus" should absolutely lawyer up as the command's behavior is threatening his livelihood.

 

[deleted480308]

I have no advice but just wanted to throw out my condolences to your friend....this is ridiculous

 

[pgg]

Assuming it's all as described (there are two sides to every story and we are hearing one) ...

Captains mast.
Med IG.
Congressman is a good idea should those fail.


That sucks. If I ever had a mental health issue not requiring inpatient treatment I would absolutely pay cash out of pocket to a civilian psychiatrist and say nothing. I've heard stories like this too often. The mental health stigma is strong.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

So, how would he get a CAPT mast?
Don't you have to get in trouble for that?

 

[deleted480308]

Assuming it's all as described (there are two sides to every story and we are hearing one) ...

Captains mast.
Med IG.
Congressman is a good idea should those fail.


That sucks. If I ever had a mental health issue not requiring inpatient treatment I would absolutely pay cash out of pocket to a civilian psychiatrist and say nothing. I've heard stories like this too often. The mental health stigma is strong.

I have always told my friends in school that I would always pay cash for private practice counseling non-affiliated with campus/NG if I needed some services. I've seen this in other realms too, mental health is just plain treated differently by people

 

[Shikima]

Assuming it's all as described (there are two sides to every story and we are hearing one) ...

Captains mast.
Med IG.
Congressman is a good idea should those fail.


That sucks. If I ever had a mental health issue not requiring inpatient treatment I would absolutely pay cash out of pocket to a civilian psychiatrist and say nothing. I've heard stories like this too often. The mental health stigma is strong.

I wonder if OIG/JAG would be helpful?

 

[d2305]

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-n...equal_opportunity/Pages/ResolvinganIssue.aspx

 

[narcusprince]

It's time for your friend to play hard ball. If they are having issues with having an appropriate workspace email your department head and click read and read receipts. If I had a problem with IT put in a trouble ticket with IT and CC your department head with read and read recipts. If I had a problem with scheduling patients which is out of proportion to what my partners are doing send an email to scheduler and department head with read recipts. If the department head treated you unfairly out of proportion to partners ICE complaint with issues identified. If your getting screwed identify each issue and keep an email record of everything. In the .mil it's the squeaky wheel that gets the greese.

 

[Gastrapathy]

If you want to play hardball, the first step is an EO complaint against the DH. That will give the CO a way to correct the problem but also put him on notice that Gus will escalate if needed.

 

[d2305]

Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)

ART. 138. COMPLAINTS OF WRONGS

Any member of the armed forces who believes himself wronged by his commanding officer, and who, upon due application to that commanding officer, is refused redress, may complain to any superior commissioned officer, who shall foreword the complaint to the office exercising court- martial jurisdiction over the officer against whom it is made. The officer exercising general court-martial jurisdiction shall examine into the complaint and take proper measures for redressing the wrong complained of; and he shall, as soon as possible, send to the Secretary concerned a true statement of that complaint, with the proceedings thereon.

 

[Homunculus]

depends on his long term goals, but if he just wants to maintain an honorable discharge and GTFO, i would get an attorney and go with scorched earth. if he wanted to stick around, it'd be one thing, but it sounds like his military days are likely over. i would simultaneously go EO and congressional. you've never seen these former "sheep dogs" turn into wet noodles faster than when a congressional comes in. keep in mind though that a congressional does not create a solution, it merely has a time sensitive "response" to what the situation is and is almost like a "status report" of WTF is going on. once he creates enough wake/turbulence, they will either PCS him or accommodate his issues. too bad we don't have unions or they'd do all of this for him, and enjoy it to boot.

hope it works out for him

--your friendly neighborhood sherman had the right idea caveman

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

depends on his long term goals, but if he just wants to maintain an honorable discharge and GTFO, i would get an attorney and go with scorched earth. if he wanted to stick around, it'd be one thing, but it sounds like his military days are likely over. i would simultaneously go EO and congressional. you've never seen these former "sheep dogs" turn into wet noodles faster than when a congressional comes in. keep in mind though that a congressional does not create a solution, it merely has a time sensitive "response" to what the situation is and is almost like a "status report" of WTF is going on. once he creates enough wake/turbulence, they will either PCS him or accommodate his issues. too bad we don't have unions or they'd do all of this for him, and enjoy it to boot.

hope it works out for him

--your friendly neighborhood sherman had the right idea caveman

Good thoughts. S/He's GTFO. His/her commitment has actually been extended pending LIMDU....supposed to be out in months, but ow hoping to get out by 2016

 

[psychbender]

Good thoughts. S/He's GTFO. His/her commitment has actually been extended pending LIMDU....supposed to be out in months, but now hoping to get out by 2016

Just curious, but does anyone else find it pants-on-head ******ed to keep someone past their separation date for the sole purpose of med-boarding them out of the military? If they did nothing, the 'problem' would fix itself, as he/she leaves the military in a few months. Am I missing something?

BNPG's friend: This just isn't working out, I'm leaving.
Navy: You can't break up with me. I'm breaking up with you!

 

[colbgw02]

Just curious, but does anyone else find it pants-on-head ******ed to keep someone past their separation date for the sole purpose of med-boarding them out of the military? If they did nothing, the 'problem' would fix itself, as he/she leaves the military in a few months. Am I missing something?

BNPG's friend: This just isn't working out, I'm leaving.
Navy: You can't break up with me. I'm breaking up with you!

There is some logic to it. For example, a severe enough of a condition could lead to medical retirement, rather than separation. And that says nothing of someone who is separating, but might have developed a disqualifying condition, having a change of heart. That said, as someone in the process of getting out, I am very leary of how much digging I want to do into my own health. The last thing I want to do is delay my separation for a condition that would ultimately have no impact on my medical readiness. Bascially, the problem is not with the nature of the process, but rather its timeliness.

 

[Corpsman]

If he wants to elect Captain's mast before going scorched earth he would route a special request chit to Dept Head, Directorate, XO, CO in that order. Any person in that chain can recommend against providing a captain's mast but it MUST go all the way to the CO for review, only they can make a denial. It creates a paper trail that your friend was trying to resolve the situation within the chain, before going nuclear with EO, IG, and Congress. When the CO does see it, anyone who recommended against has to have gone on the record for why they recommend denying it; amazingly people don't like to put it writing why they are being idiots. Once it jumps from Dept to Directorate tunes start to change quickly because none of the directors like explaining themseleves to the CO.

 

[Corpsman]

As for the Article 138, that refers to the actual CO not dept heads or superior officers in the chain. That woud only be used after a Captain's Mast has been deined by the CO. You have to provide a chance for them to address the issue to keep it kosher. As an aside, never file a 138 without JAG.

 

[d2305]

I've seen JAGs give terrible advice. A retired four-striper JAG will know how the game is played.

 

[Zenman1]

Is there an ombudsman at the MTF? We have one who strikes fear in the hearts of infantry commanders.

 

[narcusprince]

In trouble or not we as military officers should have some education on the grievance process. The knowledge I know about the process is pieced together from hearing others horror stories. I even once participated in a CO mast for a junior sailor. The process is ugly but what I saw was the grievance was handled at the lowest possible level. At some point in 99% of active duty servicemen's career they will have a formal grievance. This is more important then learning about how to sit upright in a chair or knowing how to pick up boxes.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Yet, they never talk about it.