MD/JD Schedule? Example of how this might work over 4 years?

[Gauss44]

Let's say the summer after year 2 is spent, at least in part, as a Summer Associate at a law firm (usually a full time position). There may be flexibility for a MD/JD. On the MD side, USMLE, by my understanding, would be studied for and taken sometime around year 2.

Then law firm would probably "invite you back" and offer you a full time position which may or many not be doable with 4th year medical school, or 5th year residency.

Has anyone done this? Does anyone have an educated guess about how this would work schedule-wise?

(I know I left out some big events and am only beginning to understand this process.)

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[Winged Scapula]

Let's say the summer after year 2 is spent, at least in part, as a Summer Associate at a law firm (usually a full time position). There may be flexibility for a MD/JD. On the MD side, USMLE, by my understanding, would be studied for and taken sometime around year 2.

Then law firm would probably "invite you back" and offer you a full time position which may or many not be doable with 4th year medical school, or 5th year residency.

Has anyone done this? Does anyone have an educated guess about how this would work schedule-wise?

(I know I left out some big events and am only beginning to understand this process.)

1) These tend to be 6-7 year programs; the "split" varies but might be something like this: 2 years med school, 2 years law school, 2 years split between the two. This would be a year round program

2) you need to decide what your goals are; very few people do both (i.e. finish a medical degree and a residency and then practice medicine and law). If your plan is to practice law, then you don't need to do a residency. If your plan is to practice medicine, then you need to do a residency.

3) a full time position with a law firm is not doable especially as a junior member (where you tend to work more hours) during medical school, even the relatively lighter 4th year

4) I'm not sure what you mean by "5th year residency"

 

[Ismet]

There's a student at my school currently pursuing an MD/JD. She did the first 2 years of medical school, she's currently in her 3rd year of law school, and she'll join up next year to finish the last 2 years of med school. Granted this is not an "official" program at my school, but the school is flexible and allowed her to take a 3-year LOA to pursue the JD.

You would not have time to work as a lawyer during 4th year and especially not during residency.

The only MD/JD I know doesn't practice medicine at all, he represents doctors in malpractice suits.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

What do you intend to do with an MD/JD?

 

[ems2doc]

You can't do it in 4 years. Usually takes 6 if you're lucky. Sometimes 7. Like winged scapula says, it really depends on the program. Some of them are very well integrated, some are pretty separate.

Duke is like this:
Basic Medical Science
Law School
Elective Clinical Clerkships

You need to have a clear idea of what you want to do with both degrees. Otherwise it's a complete waste of time and money. It seems like too many people want dual degrees just for the sake of having two degrees. Don't fall into that category.

 

[Law2Doc]

First, agree with the people asking why. You end up only using one or the other degrees. There are no employers actively seeking both degrees so you need a clear idea of your target job and then decide if you really do need both degrees. Most medmal lawyers do fine without the MD, and most doctors find little use for a JD other than extending their training. So why bother?

Second, your second year summer is booked with the USMLE step 1. Thats the kind of test you need a block of full time to study for -- you can't squeak it in in second year. So no, you cant do a summer law job on top -- that's a full time job with lots of after work events. Essentially to do this path you gave to forego the summer associate job path which unfortunately is the way big law firms like to hire. You won't have many summers off trying to do two degrees in med school. If you want to go law, this makes this dual degree a bad idea in terms of landing a job.

Third, you can't work full time and do a fourth year of med school. Yes many people who get all their requirements in by the match have lighter schedules fourth year starting around March, but lighter doesn't always mean zero, and you aren't going to get your requirements done if you are trying to cover two degrees in the minimum number of years. So as people mentioned this really will be a six year path to get the dual degree -- you basically can save a year. To emerge to a job you won't be able to use several of those years in. But will still be paying for. So again, you need to have a really clear sense of why?

 

[Gauss44]

Considering all of this a MD/JD sounds like a terrible option. Why does anyone every do it?

 

[allantois]

Considering all of this a MD/JD sounds like a terrible option. Why does anyone every do it?

They want to be lawyers with medical perspective

 

[moop]

Second, your second year summer is booked with the USMLE step 1. Thats the kind of test you need a block of full time to study for -- you can't squeak it in in second year. So no, you cant do a summer law job on top -- that's a full time job with lots of after work events. Essentially to do this path you gave to forego the summer associate job path which unfortunately is the way big law firms like to hire. You won't have many summers off trying to do two degrees in med school. If you want to go law, this makes this dual degree a bad idea in terms of landing a job.

Slight bump I realize. Why would an MD/JD have to forgo summer associate positions altogether? Assuming a 3/2/1 (med, law, mixed) year structure, what about the summers after [what would be normally] 1L and 2L? @Law2Doc

 

[Law2Doc]

Slight bump I realize. Why would an MD/JD have to forgo summer associate positions altogether? Assuming a 3/2/1 (med, law, mixed) year structure, what about the summers after [what would be normally] 1L and 2L? @Law2Doc

I already said above -- in med school you technically get the first year summer "off" (although many do research) but the second year summer, or at least the majority of it, is spent studying for step 1. That's a big test covering two years worth of med school material and really not something you can adequately prepare for and work/be a student at the same time. After that med school doesn't have summers off. Not sure where you are getting this 3-2-1 breakdown, but if you did that then sure I guess you'd potentially have a break between the two law years. But still really not worth it. Youd have to have a pretty good reason why. I've never met someone who has such a reason to do this dual degree combo. I've known lots of people who changed careers from law to medicine, and that's fine -- there's no pretending you will try and use both degrees. And I've known a couple of doctors who got a law degree later and it helped them in certain niche consulting businesses they started that would be unrealistic to try and follow without the right preexisting network. But dual degree -- total waste of years/$. pick one, and if you find later on that you need the other, then get the other. My bet is you never find a need for both. And thats coming from someone who has both (but didn't and wouldnt ever obtain them a a dual degree).

 

[moop]

I already said above -- in med school you technically get the first year summer "off" (although many do research) but the second year summer, or at least the majority of it, is spent studying for step 1. That's a big test covering two years worth of med school material and really not something you can adequately prepare for and work/be a student at the same time. After that med school doesn't have summers off. Not sure where you are getting this 3-2-1 breakdown, but if you did that then sure I guess you'd potentially have a break between the two law years. But still really not worth it. Youd have to have a pretty good reason why. I've never met someone who has such a reason to do this dual degree combo. I've known lots of people who changed careers from law to medicine, and that's fine -- there's no pretending you will try and use both degrees. And I've known a couple of doctors who got a law degree later and it helped them in certain niche consulting businesses they started that would be unrealistic to try and follow without the right preexisting network. But dual degree -- total waste of years/$. pick one, and if you find later on that you need the other, then get the other. My bet is you never find a need for both. And thats coming from someone who has both (but didn't and wouldnt ever obtain them a a dual degree).

Yeah yeah ok ok I know about the 250 reasons not to do it. Just wanted to clarify that the law years have summers where you would be able to do what normal JD students do since the med part is separated out then.

The 3-2-1 (or 2-2-2) breakdown is generally how an MD/JD would look in terms of years. Not necessarily at the same university, either. I know more than a handful of MS2/3s taking a leave of absence to do combined degrees elsewhere, whether it be MPH, MBA, MPP/MPA, and yes, the hated JD.

 

[LizzyM]

All of the MD/JDs I know did it as evening students in part-time programs while in residency or beyond. Most did it for enrichment-- to better understand elder law, employment law, child advocacy. One gave up medicine for a niche market as a litigator.

 

[mvenus929]

Yeah yeah ok ok I know about the 250 reasons not to do it. Just wanted to clarify that the law years have summers where you would be able to do what normal JD students do since the med part is separated out then.

The 3-2-1 (or 2-2-2) breakdown is generally how an MD/JD would look in terms of years. Not necessarily at the same university, either. I know more than a handful of MS2/3s taking a leave of absence to do combined degrees elsewhere, whether it be MPH, MBA, MPP/MPA, and yes, the hated JD.

Not sure how all programs run, but a lot of the dual degree programs I've seen have you fulfilling the requirements of fourth year of med school during the summers you would have off pursuing the second degree. But pursuing a JD may make things a little different, since the law students do work over those summers.

 

[Law2Doc]

Not sure how all programs run, but a lot of the dual degree programs I've seen have you fulfilling the requirements of fourth year of med school during the summers you would have off pursuing the second degree. But pursuing a JD may make things a little different, since the law students do work over those summers.

I suspect the schools make use of summers as you describe, rather than simply nix a year. Working summers is not regarded as part of the law school training, even if law firms use it as a recruitment tool (but remember not every law employer is even a law firm -- government is the biggest employer of lawyers). so I doubt it's even "a little different". But regardless of how it's parses out, nobody is going to recruit someone who is more than a year away from working. Needs change too quickly in law. My point remains, the dual degree is still a bad idea no matter how it's set up.

 

[Snakes]

Then law firm would probably "invite you back" and offer you a full time position which may or many not be doable with 4th year medical school, or 5th year residency.

(I know I left out some big events and am only beginning to understand this process.)

I billed over 2500 hours my first year of law practice at a big firm right out of law school. My firm was considered a "lifestyle firm" in my city at the time. Those are billing hours, not working hours. I had friends who worked at "machine type" firms who billed over 2800+ hours their first year. That doesn't count any of the after-hours networking either. I just can't see how this is even possible to do during med school.

 

[Law2Doc]

I billed over 2500 hours my first year of law practice at a big firm right out of law school. My firm was considered a "lifestyle firm" in my city at the time. Those are billing hours, not working hours. I had friends who worked at "machine type" firms who billed over 2800+ hours their first year. That doesn't count any of the after-hours networking either. I just can't see how this is even possible to do during med school.

Agree. Neither law firm work nor med school is a part time gig. This isn't something you can double up.

And even if a firm let you have some unusual cushy schedule, your co-associates would either despise you for getting special treatment and leaving them the work or find ways to sell you out for anything that went wrong. "Oh X didn't get filed on time? I think Dr Steve was supposed to be taking care of that"

 

[Snakes]

"Oh X didn't get filed on time? I think Dr Steve was supposed to be taking care of that"

Dr. Steve. LOLZ