MD & MSTP Acceptances

[questions-----]

Does anyone know what happens if you are accepted to both MD and MST programs with regard to when you must only hold a single acceptance?

I applied and was accepted to both at different schools, but I'm still deciding what path I want to pursue. You can only hold a single MSTP acceptance on April 30th, but you can hold MD acceptances later. Does the requirement to only hold a single MSTP acceptance mean that you cannot also hold simultaneous MD acceptances at that time?

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[Pacna]

Not 100% sure, but I would imagine that this would be okay. I also believe you can hold 1 DO & 1 MD acceptance simultaneously past the deadline as AMCAS and AACOMAS do not speak.

 

[Microglia]

Does anyone know what happens if you are accepted to both MD and MST programs with regard to when you must only hold a single acceptance?

I applied and was accepted to both at different schools, but I'm still deciding what path I want to pursue. You can only hold a single MSTP acceptance on April 30th, but you can hold MD acceptances later. Does the requirement to only hold a single MSTP acceptance mean that you cannot also hold simultaneous MD acceptances at that time?

Not entirely sure, most people I know applied just one or the other. On a related note, if you're unsure about an 8+ year commitment and whether you want to do mostly research vs just straight clinic, you may wanna ditch the MSTP.

 

[questions-----]

Not entirely sure, most people I know applied just one or the other. On a related note, if you're unsure about an 8+ year commitment and whether you want to do mostly research vs just straight clinic, you may wanna ditch the MSTP.

Thanks a lot. I'd appreciate your perspective; why do you suggest I ditch the MSTP? I want to both do research and practice clinically. I am a little unsure how that balance will play out, but that's 8 years down the road. I don't think I'd be taken very seriously in my field (bioinformatics) if I didn't have a PhD.

 

[rudziutki]

Thanks a lot. I'd appreciate your perspective; why do you suggest I ditch the MSTP? I want to both do research and practice clinically. I am a little unsure how that balance will play out, but that's 8 years down the road. I don't think I'd be taken very seriously in my field (bioinformatics) if I didn't have a PhD.

Your colleagues' view of you will be based on the quality of your published work, not the degrees after your name. Anecdotal but I work in a research lab at a hospital which is a research powerhouse, and I would say that ~50% of the big name researchers I read about are MD only. MSTP has a lot of merits, but is hardly necessary if you want a career as a physician scientist. If you are ABSOLUTELY 110% DEAD SET on a career in research, it's probably worth your time to do an MSTP.

 

[questions-----]

Your colleagues view of you will be based on the quality of your published work, not the degrees after your name. Anecdotal but I work in a research lab at a hospital which his a research powerhouse, and I would say that ~50% of the big name researchers I read about are MD only.

I know this in concept. I also think this varies field-by-field; Also anecdotal, but I've spoken to an MD/PhD at my school (also a large NIH research institution) who has worked on grant panels and said they don't take MDs as seriously. The average age for MDs getting their first NIH grant is the same as MD/PhDs and they have a lower success rate, so if I didn't follow the MSTP path I'd still be stuck doing a couple of Post Docs and likely not practicing clinically during them, which is something I want to avoid. Additionally, I could actually use extra classwork

 

[DokterMom]

Isn't there also a $200,000+ difference in the price tag that ought to be given some consideration?

 

[SN12357]

I know this in concept. I also think this varies field-by-field; Also anecdotal, but I've spoken to an MD/PhD at my school (also a large NIH research institution) who has worked on grant panels and said they don't take MDs as seriously. The average age for MDs getting their first NIH grant is the same as MD/PhDs and they have a lower success rate, so if I didn't follow the MSTP path I'd still be stuck doing a couple of Post Docs and likely not practicing clinically during them, which is something I want to avoid. Additionally, I could actually use extra classwork

If you know your field and you know you want to be in research long term and you've had enough exposure to the nitty gritty of the funding wars to be going in with an informed mind, then you probably know enough to make a good choice about MD vs. MD-PhD. There are a lot of people who don't really understand the territory and think that an MD-PhD is automatically better, when actually the utility varies a lot depending on what your career goals actually are and what subfield you're in.

Isn't there also a $200,000+ difference in the price tag that ought to be given some consideration?

Since MD-PhD is such a longer path, and therefore they lose years of working as a doctor, the price difference is actually not as salient as it appears at first glance. Again it depends on what specialty you expect to end up in, but I looked closely at the pluses and minuses when making my decision and price ended up not being very relevant. YMMV.

 

[grizdad]

I know this in concept. I also think this varies field-by-field; Also anecdotal, but I've spoken to an MD/PhD at my school (also a large NIH research institution) who has worked on grant panels and said they don't take MDs as seriously. The average age for MDs getting their first NIH grant is the same as MD/PhDs and they have a lower success rate, so if I didn't follow the MSTP path I'd still be stuck doing a couple of Post Docs and likely not practicing clinically during them, which is something I want to avoid. Additionally, I could actually use extra classwork

It sounds like you have your decision. All he was saying was that if you aren't sure you want to commit to the 8 years, you should just do the MD. It sounds like you are set on the MD/PhD program.

 

[questions-----]

Isn't there also a $200,000+ difference in the price tag that ought to be given some consideration?

The money on an MSTP is basically a wash, considering you are losing 3-4 years of earning potential. I'm also lucky enough that it isn't a dealbreaker for me.

 

[questions-----]

It sounds like you have your decision. All he was saying was that if you aren't sure you want to commit to the 8 years, you should just do the MD. It sounds like you are set on the MD/PhD program.

Thanks

 

[Microglia]

Thanks a lot. I'd appreciate your perspective; why do you suggest I ditch the MSTP? I want to both do research and practice clinically. I am a little unsure how that balance will play out, but that's 8 years down the road. I don't think I'd be taken very seriously in my field (bioinformatics) if I didn't have a PhD.

I certainly don't think you shouuld ditch the MSTP. Just be as sure as you can that you want to do at least 70% research as your career. If so, I say go for it!

Your colleagues' view of you will be based on the quality of your published work, not the degrees after your name. Anecdotal but I work in a research lab at a hospital which is a research powerhouse, and I would say that ~50% of the big name researchers I read about are MD only. MSTP has a lot of merits, but is hardly necessary if you want a career as a physician scientist. If you are ABSOLUTELY 110% DEAD SET on a career in research, it's probably worth your time to do an MSTP.

This mentality is outdated. Many MD's are big names in research right now- yes. However, with funding situations growing tighter, PhD programs growing with fewer jobs available for postdocs, and grants being fewer and harder to come by, the ability to just do an MD and break into MD/PhD territory is certainly dwindling rapidly. The reason so many MD only researchers are big names right now is because when they were in school, MD/PhD was just becoming a concept or didn't exist. As our generation becomes the senior most researchers, you will notice the number of MD-only big name researchers will severely dwindle.

tl;dr: If you want to do MD-only and become a physician scientist as a member of our generation, you will pay many more dues in time and money than an MSTP

(You get debt from med school, and make very little in the time you do research fellowships and are applying for R01's- which is at least as much time as it takes an MSTP to get their PhD)

 

[Lil Mick]

I'm not sure about holding both acceptances. Maybe you could contact the MD school and ask them if it is okay, as you're deciding on whether or not you'd like to try MSTP (especially if their revisit days are after the MSTP deadline). As for MSTP, you have to really want to do both degrees. Bioinformatics is probably a field in which you'd want to do at least an MS, given some of the programming, statistical methodology, and tech skills you'll need that a lot of universities don't offer in undergrad classes (alternatively, you could probably learn on your own or at an internship during your MD). Send me a PM if you want to talk more--I decided on math as my field (definitely need a PhD to work from that side of it).

 

[Reckoner]

@Fencer might be able to answer the OP's question.

 

[Fencer]

You are supposed to make decisions by:

• April 15th for programs with 1st day of class prior to July 30,
• April 30th for MD/PhD programs,
• May 15th for all other MD programs,

See: https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/recommendations/applicants/

Program directors will be able to see people holding multiple acceptances after those deadlines. At their discretion, they are able to rescind acceptances. Applicants can still be waitlisted to other programs. If they receive a late acceptance (before May 15th), applicants are able to hold the acceptances for a few days and up to week or so (depends upon the program).

To answer the OP: sure, you can hold them but you are risking losing the MD/PhD acceptance. Communication between the accepted applicant and the program director/administration is CRITICAL. Exceptions will always happen but with adequate communication, a severe outcome can be avoided.

In general, use a dichotomy approach to decisions. Compare two of the acceptances at once. I know people who have received a dozen acceptances. Holding them until the deadlines is irresponsible and insensitive to other applicants (and programs). You should not be holding more than two or three acceptances at once.

 

[questions-----]

You are supposed to make decisions by:
To answer the OP: sure, you can hold them but you are risking losing the MD/PhD acceptance. Communication between the accepted applicant and the program director/administration is CRITICAL. Exceptions will always happen but with adequate communication, a severe outcome can be avoided.

In general, use a dichotomy approach to decisions. Compare two of the acceptances at once. I know people who have received a dozen acceptances. Holding them until the deadlines is irresponsible and insensitive to other applicants (and programs). You should not be holding more than two or three acceptances at once.

Thank you very much for your post and thoughts. I'm holding several right now (1/2 MD and 1/2 MSTP). I honestly haven't decided where I am going to go yet. I don't want to turn down MD programs because I want to see what kind of financial aid could potentially be offered if I go that route, and I also don't want to turn down MSTP because I haven't decided where I will go if I choose that route, as it depends upon further research and contact with the schools' faculties on my part. I'm also still waiting on schools. I hope that isn't interpreted as inconsiderate; I'm certainly not trying to be dishonest. (Also, if you're in Texas, I'm not in your program). I was also told by an admissions director at one school to hold on to all acceptances until later, so I've gotten some conflicting advice.

 

[Espadaleader]

You're in a tough spot.

Thank you very much for your post and thoughts. I'm holding several right now (1/2 MD and 1/2 MSTP). I honestly haven't decided where I am going to go yet. I don't want to turn down MD programs because I want to see what kind of financial aid could potentially be offered if I go that route, and I also don't want to turn down MSTP because I haven't decided where I will go if I choose that route, as it depends upon further research and contact with the schools' faculties on my part. I'm also still waiting on schools. I hope that isn't interpreted as inconsiderate; I'm certainly not trying to be dishonest. (Also, if you're in Texas, I'm not in your program). I was also told by an admissions director at one school to hold on to all acceptances until later, so I've gotten some conflicting advice.

 

[Fencer]

What is that you want to do when you are grown up? MD/PhD training is not cost-effective mechanism to finance medical education (MD). You delay your entry into the workforce by 4 years when you earn a salary that is considerably higher than paying loans (even with interest). That is truly your first decision.