MD school at UNTHSC/TCOM, Rev 2.0

[costales]

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article26585644.html

Texas Christian University and the University of North Texas Health Science Center are teaming up to open a new medical school in the heart of the city.

TCU and UNTHSC have signed a memorandum of understanding detailing a collaboration between the two academic institutions to open a M.D. school with as many as 60 new students in 2018.

About $25 million from private donors has already been pledged to start the new medical school, said UNTHSC President Michael R. Williams. And TCU Chancellor Victor Boschini said his school has pledged to use $50 million from its endowment to support the effort.

The University of North Texas Board of Regents approved the agreement at a Monday morning board meeting. TCU’s board has already approved the plan, Boschini said.

The M.D. school will give Fort Worth two medical schools. Since 1970, UNTHSC has been home to the Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine, which will continue to operate at the campus just west of downtown.

“There is nothing wrong with having two medical schools in the same town,” Williams said Monday morning during a meeting with the Star-Telegram’s editorial board.

Fort Worth is the largest city in the United States without a school that offers an M.D. degree.

Facilities, faculty, medical library and other resources would be shared between the two academic institutions to create the school, which would ultimately enroll a total of 240 students by 2021-2022.

No name has been given to the school, but officials said it will include both TCU and UNTHSC. Future plans could include naming it after someone who contributes financially to the school, such as the Dell Medical School at the University of Texas at Austin.

A dean for the medical school — who would provide leadership, hire faculty and develop a curriculum of study — would be selected by both institutions and report to provosts at both schools.

He said because no state funding will be used at the school, no other approval will need to come from the Legislature, which has proved to be a stumbling block in past efforts by UNTHSC to get a M.D. program.

M.D. students will attend classes at both campuses, which are less than three miles apart.

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[AlteredScale]

Oh jeeze.

 

[docbsb2015]

Boy oh boy. Poor IMGs.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

The MD students probably aren't going to like paying 5x the tuition as the DO students in the same lecture hall.

But then match day will come.

 

[NewDoc]

The MD students probably aren't going to like paying 5x the tuition as the DO students in the same lecture hall.

But then match day will come.

This attitude is still around? You need to take your inferiority complex back to the pre-med forum.

 

[radkat101]

This attitude is still around? You need to take your inferiority complex back to the pre-med forum.

They're right though. They will use the same facilities, have the same professors, even probably have a similar curriculum, rotate in the same places, not have to put up with OMM, and still match better because they are MDs.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

This attitude is still around? You need to take your inferiority complex back to the pre-med forum.

No inferiority complex here. Just having a little laugh at what is, unfortunately, a reality all DO students have to deal with. We're not the ones discriminating.

I feel a little accomplished by drawing out only your fourth post in 16 years, though.

 

[NurWollen]

Wow this is nuts. I like how they insist, "there's nothing wrong with having two medical schools in the same city." That may by true but they don't say why.

I guess you can't tell a reporter, "we saw an opportunity to become very rich so we decided to take it."

Seriously though I'm not someone who is easily offended but it's hard not to to feel put off when schools with highly respected DO schools feel the need to open an MD program.

 

[Bea5T]

The MD students probably aren't going to like paying 5x the tuition as the DO students in the same lecture hall.

But then match day will come.

Not if it's private. There's little difference between tuition if we discard in state public med schools. With that said, I don't think there's a better investment you can make than opening a med school. Pretty much guaranteed returns.

 

[ItzaMeSeanay]

Any current TCOM students want to weigh in on how they feel about this move? Wouldn't this take away from the "Exclusiveness" that is TCOM and overshadow it in some way since there is an MD school quite literally next to it

 

[DoctorKrieger]

Not if it's private. There's little difference between tuition if we discard in state public med schools. With that said, I don't think there's a better investment you can make than opening a med school. It's like owning and NFL team in this day and age.

Isn't tuition at TCOM around 10k/year? I can't imagine private school TCU offering tuition for anything even close to that.

 

[ItzaMeSeanay]

Isn't tuition at TCOM around 10k/year? I can't imagine private school TCU offering tuition for anything even close to that.

Yeah, TCOM tuition is around 12k a year so your pretty spot on. I agree, don't see that happening unless there is something we are missing.

 

[radkat101]

Any current TCOM students want to weigh in on how they feel about this move? Wouldn't this take away from the "Exclusiveness" that is TCOM and overshadow it in some way since there is an MD school quite literally next to it

I think nothing good will come of it, but we have some optimists in our class who think that it'll help "familiarize the MD students with DO's and the osteopathic philosophy" or "lead to better collaboration between DO's and MD's".

I think they will just strain our resources and take all our rotation spots (The CEO for the hospital network we rotate in really wanted this). It's obviously just to make a bunch of cash and boost the prestige of TCU/UNTHSC at our expense.

 

[ItzaMeSeanay]

I think nothing good will come of it, but we have some optimists in our class who think that it'll help "familiarize the MD students with DO's and the osteopathic philosophy" or "lead to better collaboration between DO's and MD's".

I think they will just strain our resources and take all our rotation spots (The CEO for the hospital network we rotate in really wanted this). It's obviously just to make a bunch of cash and boost the prestige of TCU/UNTHSC at our expense.

Ouch, I was afraid of a response like this. Thankfully I am an upcoming Class of 2019 TCOM student so it shouldn't effect me too much? Any word on how the Dean feels about this? I can hardly imagine that he just sat by idly and let this happen without some sort of insight on the situation.

 

[radkat101]

Ouch, I was afraid of a response like this. Thankfully I am an upcoming Class of 2019 TCOM student so it shouldn't effect me too much? Any word on how the Dean feels about this? I can hardly imagine that he just sat by idly and let this happen without some sort of insight on the situation.

Don't worry, it won't affect you, and I could be totally wrong. Haven't heard anything from the dean yet. Everything has come from the president. I doubt he sat idly by, and would be surprised if he endorsed this deal. Money talks in the end though, so there's probably not a whole lot he could do to prevent it.

 

[ItzaMeSeanay]

Don't worry, it won't affect you, and I could be totally wrong. Haven't heard anything from the dean yet. Everything has come from the president. I doubt he sat idly by, and would be surprised if he endorsed this deal. Money talks in the end though, so there's probably not a whole lot he could do to prevent it.

Yeah... that is somewhat depressing though. One of the factors that drew me into TCOM was the fact that everyone there (students, faculty, president, etc.) all seemed very close knitted and worked together to provide an amazing environment to learn and practice medicine. Now that this news has presented itself it just seems like it will take away from all of TCOM's greatness and legacy. Eventually I could see TCOM being viewed by future applicants as a "backup" to the new MD school 10-15 years down the road which is really sad in my eyes.

I really appreciate your input and for answering my questions! Means a lot!

 

[JustaDO]

Just remember this, the first class is slated to be in 2018, hence TCOM 22' has something to be concerned about, not you.

The truth of the matter is that TCOM 9/10 is considered as a backup. This reality won't change anytime soon.

 

[JustPlainBill]

So --- a few things:

1) The news media -- radio specifically -- is touting that as "Ft. Worth is finally getting a medical school. It's been one of the few major cities without one.". So I guess I need a refund of $250K and 4 years of my life since my TCOM experience was NOT medical school. Guess I need to call Bruce Dubin/Scott Ransom about that one.

2) All of a sudden these clinical rotation spots open up that were mysteriously unavailable when it was only TCOM in the area. This strikes me as a "Sit at the back of the bus" mentality.

3) The chancellor on the radio today made a big deal that the students would be trained "holistically". Somewhat ironic.

4) Stats show that on average about 74% of DOs go into Primary Care (FM, IM, OB/Gyn, Peds) where about 24% of MDs go into Primary Care. With the need for PCPs growing, it would make more sense to expand TCOM.

5) By Texas law, UNTHSC can only grant DO degrees. Rather disingenuous that they had to collaborate with TCU to get around that one.

Am I particularly a frothing at the mouth DO first/last/always -- no. But I also don't take kindly to being told that what I put so much time and effort into is not a "real" medical degree.

And based on some discussions with colleagues, looks like TOMA is going to roll over and play dead on this one.

 

[costales]

Hey Bill, check your Texas Medical Board license. I bet it was signed by a TCOM grad. It's no good. LOL.

I find it hilarious that they're presenting it like some kind of marriage of equals. TCU's experience in medical education consists of a nursing program, while TCOM has been producing doctors for 45 years with great success. UNTHSC was created because of TCOM.

TOMA is silent because the state funding argument they used last time can't be used anymore i.e. diversion of resources away from TCOM. Basically, if some rich guy wants to pay for it, let him.

I hope they'll give TCOM faculty a nice supplemental paycheck from the new Robert Bass Medical School. Chances of that happening? 0.027. (Heck, I hope that Bass will pay for his own medical school building someplace instead of putting his name on the new $80-million research building that the state just approved for UNTHSC.) Stay tuned.

 

[costales]

2) All of a sudden these clinical rotation spots open up that were mysteriously unavailable when it was only TCOM in the area. This strikes me as a "Sit at the back of the bus" mentality.

I understand that the new spots will be available to both schools. I don't see how JPS can accommodate the new school in 2022, but there are plenty of hospital beds in Fort Worth.

3) The chancellor on the radio today made a big deal that the students would be trained "holistically". Somewhat ironic.

I don't think the former Dallas County Judge knows what it means. But whatever.

 

[iwillnevergiveup]

NSU and now UNTHSC being dual accredited...Is this becoming a trend?

Who's next? PCOM? KCU?

 

[bleuler72]

So --- a few things:

1) The news media -- radio specifically -- is touting that as "Ft. Worth is finally getting a medical school. It's been one of the few major cities without one.". So I guess I need a refund of $250K and 4 years of my life since my TCOM experience was NOT medical school. Guess I need to call Bruce Dubin/Scott Ransom about that one.

2) All of a sudden these clinical rotation spots open up that were mysteriously unavailable when it was only TCOM in the area. This strikes me as a "Sit at the back of the bus" mentality.

3) The chancellor on the radio today made a big deal that the students would be trained "holistically". Somewhat ironic.

4) Stats show that on average about 74% of DOs go into Primary Care (FM, IM, OB/Gyn, Peds) where about 24% of MDs go into Primary Care. With the need for PCPs growing, it would make more sense to expand TCOM.

5) By Texas law, UNTHSC can only grant DO degrees. Rather disingenuous that they had to collaborate with TCU to get around that one.

Am I particularly a frothing at the mouth DO first/last/always -- no. But I also don't take kindly to being told that what I put so much time and effort into is not a "real" medical degree.

And based on some discussions with colleagues, looks like TOMA is going to roll over and play dead on this one.

appreciate your perspective Bill. As a TCOM grad who lives out of state - I've been disconnected from all of this and hoped that this would all disappear after the first attempt failed.

Yes- I'm steamed by all of this. I guess I had mistakenly thought that the Ft Worth community finally valued the DO program. Foolish of me.

In my minds it all boils down to prestige - Dallas has it all and Ft Worth lacks it. This pisses off the Bass family and their ilk. Not to mention Harris Methodist (or whatever they call themselves now) other "prestigious" hospitals in the area who - when I was in school there- refused to work with DO students.

Now there is something to be proud of Ft Worth. Congrats!!

 

[UTsksk]

As a TCOM student, it was rather insulting reading those initial reports that pretty much disregarded us completely since according to them, UTSW was the only medical school in north Texas. Then there were the reports on UNT regents saying that Fort Worth has been desperate for a medical school for years and hope to have an accredited school. Some think that maybe UNT might have been forced to play this hand because other Texas schools (like Tech and UT) were interested as well. In all honesty, I'm not happy about it, but there's nothing I can do about it. I'm just going finish getting my degree and leave before the new batch goes in.

I just hope that they fix some stuff because parking can be difficult already. The library can be a pain as well when different schools have upcoming tests.

 

[radkat101]

I'm still really confused over how this whole thing is even possible. TCOM is a public institution and the new school will be private. I'm guessing the only way they can even afford to start up this program is because they will just use UNTHSC facilities to cut costs. How is this legal? Is the private tuition these MD students pay going to be used to offset the extra costs of their utilization of public/TCOM resources? And wouldn't the state legislature have to approve this?

 

[Harker Heights]

appreciate your perspective Bill. As a TCOM grad who lives out of state - I've been disconnected from all of this and hoped that this would all disappear after the first attempt failed.

Yes- I'm steamed by all of this. I guess I had mistakenly thought that the Ft Worth community finally valued the DO program. Foolish of me.

In my minds it all boils down to prestige - Dallas has it all and Ft Worth lacks it. This pisses off the Bass family and their ilk. Not to mention Harris Methodist (or whatever they call themselves now) other "prestigious" hospitals in the area who - when I was in school there- refused to work with DO students.

Now there is something to be proud of Ft Worth. Congrats!!

IMHO.. in the wonderful world of MD schools, this new school will have as much prestige and influence as UT-Rio Grande Valley...

 

[Harker Heights]

I'm still really confused over how this whole thing is even possible. TCOM is a public institution and the new school will be private. I'm guessing the only way they can even afford to start up this program is because they will just use UNTHSC facilities to cut costs. How is this legal? Is the private tuition these MD students pay going to be used to offset the extra costs of their utilization of public/TCOM resources? And wouldn't the state legislature have to approve this?

That's what everyone wants to know. Where are they going to put the students and who is going to teach them? TCU nursing school professors? They already said UNTHSC facilities and resources will be utilized, but they also said no state funding will be involved. They even said they don't need to talk to the legislature. It makes no sense. If you look at the Dell Medical School which is the model they mentioned, Michael Dell kickstarted it with a gift and I'm pretty sure an endowment, but the school itself is going to be officially a state school, owned by the state and operated by UT-Austin using public money.

Maybe they'll come forward with specific details, but right now it sounds like a shady deal and a giant giveaway to TCU. All to glorify some rich guy.

I don't see how this is not going to weaken TCOM in term of morale and everything else. Williams is a TCOM graduate. Maybe it takes a TCOM graduate to destroy TCOM by screwing TCOM students and diminishing their presence, not to mention the many thousands of TCOM alumni? I see nothing but resentment and rancor ahead. Maybe future historians will mark this as the beginning of the end of an era.

 

[jbradley]

This scheme reminds me of a private school in my hometown that used a district building rent free, had everything paid for by taxpayers, and all profits went to the owners. I can't help but feel bad for TCOM people. I've worked with DOs from there, and I can say that their reputation is well deserved. Hopefully the Robert Bass School of Medicine MDs will find a cure for cancer and the demise of TCOM won't be in vain.

 

[jbradley]

This attitude is still around? You need to take your inferiority complex back to the pre-med forum.

Your remark seems applicable to Dr. Williams, DO (TCOM), MD (Ross) in the article. Now he can say that he plays second fiddle at a third tier MD school using his fourth tier MD degree. Man, how pathetic is that?

 

[NurWollen]

Your remark seems applicable to Dr. Williams, DO (TCOM), MD (Ross) in the article. Now he can say that he plays second fiddle at a third tier MD school using his fourth tier MD degree. Man, how pathetic is that?

So a guy who went to the Caribbean so he could put MD after his DO is in charge of a DO school that is willing to do anything to get an MD program.

Everything suddenly becomes so clear.

 

[Brahventus]

So a guy who went to the Caribbean so he could put MD after his DO is in charge of a DO school that is willing to do anything to get an MD program.

Everything suddenly becomes so clear.

I've always known that Dr. Williams advocated an MD school at Unthsc before I got to TCOM and always thought that all the lovey dovey pro TCOM sht that he would say since orientation was full of BS. Sad that my suspicions came true.

 

[ItzaMeSeanay]

Current and past students should definitely try to file a petition or at least get your thoughts heard to the president Dr. Williams. Seems like a huge disregard for students of TCOM and faculty to just throw this at them when it was so fought against in the past.

I mean this practically will spell the end for TCOM maybe 10 or so years down the road.

 

[greentrails]

I'm emailing these people:
http://www.txosteo.org/?page=BOT
They seriously went to bat for TCOM students last time. It's sad that we have to ask outsiders for help.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

NSU and now UNTHSC being dual accredited...Is this becoming a trend?

Who's next? PCOM? KCU?

There's more than that - MSU and Rowan for starters.

 

[UTsksk]

So a guy who went to the Caribbean so he could put MD after his DO is in charge of a DO school that is willing to do anything to get an MD program.

Everything suddenly becomes so clear.

Rumors have it that the reason they fired the last president was because he couldn't get the MD school approved. Guess that could've been reasoning behind allowing it, but the rich will always control what happens. From what I've heard, Dr. Williams had to get that MD because UTSW anesthesiology program required it so he could be the 1st DO in their program. He had to repeat his 3rd and 4th year rotations before starting. I'm not defending him, just clarifying why he has that MD.

 

[UTsksk]

IMHO.. in the wonderful world of MD schools, this new school will have as much prestige and influence as UT-Rio Grande Valley...

That's kind of a low blow for UTRGV (way better idea than the new TCU med school sharing space with TCOM). The closest US medical school is UTHSCSA which is around 4 hours away and if you're from that area, you know that the valley in a way is kind of secluded from the rest of TX. I think a medical school down there is a big plus in retaining their own students and recruiting others. The valley overall is a large population that is starved for physicians and research opportunities. I know once I'm done with school, I plan on going back.

 

[costales]

Rumors have it that the reason they fired the last president was because he couldn't get the MD school approved. Guess that could've been reasoning behind allowing it, but the rich will always control what happens. From what I've heard, Dr. Williams had to get that MD because UTSW anesthesiology program required it so he could be the 1st DO in their program. He had to repeat his 3rd and 4th year rotations before starting. I'm not defending him, just clarifying why he has that MD.

My understanding is that he literally bought that MD diploma by mail order, thinking it might provide some protection against possible discrimination by certain hospitals. If you look at the TMB chronology below, he got it in 1984. Here's what Wikipedia says about Ross: "In 1985 California state medical licensing officials... released a report stating that RUSM at that time had nearly no admissions standards, and that the school was in the business of providing medical degrees to "everyone that wants one."

PUBLIC VERIFICATION / PHYSICIAN PROFILE
NAME: MICHAEL RAY WILLIAMS DO
Medical School of Graduation:
At the time of licensure, TMB verified the physician’s graduation from medical school as follows:
UNIV OF NORTH TEXAS HLTH SCI CTR, FORT WORTH
Medical School Graduation Year: 1981
Specialty Certification: AMERICAN BOARD OF ANESTHESIOLOGY/CRITICAL CARE MEDICINE
Date: 1991
Specialty Certification: AMERICAN BOARD OF ANESTHESIOLOGY
Date: 1989
Primary Specialty
The physician reports his/her primary practice is in the area of ADMINISTRATIVE MEDICINE.
Name, Location and Graduation Date of All Medical Schools Attended
Name: ROSS UNIVERSITY
Location: NYC/NY/DOMINICA
Graduation Date: 01/1984
Name: UNIV OF NORTH TEXAS H SCI
Location: FT WORTH USA
Graduation Date: 05/1981
Graduate Medical Education In The United States Or Canada
Program Name: METHODIST MED CTR OF DALLAS
Location: DALLAS, TX Begin Date: 07/1981
Type: RESIDENCY End Date: 06/1984
Specialty: GEN SURGERY
Program Name: TEXAS HEART INSTITUTE PARKLAND MEM HOSP
Location: DALLAS, TX Begin Date: 07/1985
Type: RESIDENCY End Date: 06/1988
Specialty: ANESTHESIOLOGY/CRITICAL CARE
Awards, Honors, Publications and Academic Appointments
Description: FELLOW OF THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF HEALTHCARE EXECUTIVES
Description: FELLOW OF THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF CHEST PHYSICIANS
Description: FORMER MEMBER OF TEXAS SOCIETY OF ANESTHESIOLOGISTS HOUSE OF DELEGATES
Description: CHIEF OF ANESTHESIOLOGY METHODIST MEDICAL CTR OF DALLAS 1994-95
Description: CHIEF OF ANESTHESIA SURGERY HILL COUNTRY MEMORIAL HOSPITAL FREDERCKSBURG 1999-PRESENT
Issue Date: Type:
08/23/1981 LICENSED PHYSICIAN ​

 

[UTsksk]

My understanding is that he literally bought that MD diploma by mail order, thinking it might provide some protection against possible discrimination by certain hospitals. If you look at the TMB chronology below, he got it in 1984. Here's what Wikipedia says about Ross: "In 1985 California state medical licensing officials... released a report stating that RUSM at that time had nearly no admissions standards, and that the school was in the business of providing medical degrees to "everyone that wants one."

PUBLIC VERIFICATION / PHYSICIAN PROFILE
NAME: MICHAEL RAY WILLIAMS DO
Medical School of Graduation:
At the time of licensure, TMB verified the physician’s graduation from medical school as follows:
UNIV OF NORTH TEXAS HLTH SCI CTR, FORT WORTH
Medical School Graduation Year: 1981
Specialty Certification: AMERICAN BOARD OF ANESTHESIOLOGY/CRITICAL CARE MEDICINE
Date: 1991
Specialty Certification: AMERICAN BOARD OF ANESTHESIOLOGY
Date: 1989
Primary Specialty
The physician reports his/her primary practice is in the area of ADMINISTRATIVE MEDICINE.
Name, Location and Graduation Date of All Medical Schools Attended
Name: ROSS UNIVERSITY
Location: NYC/NY/DOMINICA
Graduation Date: 01/1984
Name: UNIV OF NORTH TEXAS H SCI
Location: FT WORTH USA
Graduation Date: 05/1981
Graduate Medical Education In The United States Or Canada
Program Name: METHODIST MED CTR OF DALLAS
Location: DALLAS, TX Begin Date: 07/1981
Type: RESIDENCY End Date: 06/1984
Specialty: GEN SURGERY
Program Name: TEXAS HEART INSTITUTE PARKLAND MEM HOSP
Location: DALLAS, TX Begin Date: 07/1985
Type: RESIDENCY End Date: 06/1988
Specialty: ANESTHESIOLOGY/CRITICAL CARE
Awards, Honors, Publications and Academic Appointments
Description: FELLOW OF THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF HEALTHCARE EXECUTIVES
Description: FELLOW OF THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF CHEST PHYSICIANS
Description: FORMER MEMBER OF TEXAS SOCIETY OF ANESTHESIOLOGISTS HOUSE OF DELEGATES
Description: CHIEF OF ANESTHESIOLOGY METHODIST MEDICAL CTR OF DALLAS 1994-95
Description: CHIEF OF ANESTHESIA SURGERY HILL COUNTRY MEMORIAL HOSPITAL FREDERCKSBURG 1999-PRESENT
Issue Date: Type:
08/23/1981 LICENSED PHYSICIAN ​

Thanks for the clarification. It's a shame that it took buying a caribbean degree to prevent discrimination.

 

[radkat101]

Thanks for the clarification. It's a shame that it took buying a caribbean degree to prevent discrimination.

I've never ever seen a doctor with both an MD and a DO. There was no reason for this guy to have both. If there's still any doubt, then consider the fact that he is employed (making big $$$) by the institution that granted him that DO degree, yet he still finds it necessary to include the unearned "MD" in his title. I don't think he could make it anymore obvious how little regard he actually has for the osteopathic profession.

 

[JustPlainBill]

I understand that the new spots will be available to both schools. I don't see how JPS can accommodate the new school in 2022, but there are plenty of hospital beds in Fort Worth.

Point that frosts my cookies is that our students in and of themselves -- remember, we're a Top 25 school for Primary Care and have been for a while, we were (under the Dubin/Putthoff era) a full standard deviation above all other osteopathic schools in our COMLEX scores and had a 94% pass rate for the USMLE Step 1 -- are not deemed good enough by the FW medical community to rotate within the community but now that there's finally a "medical school" in FW, all of a sudden there are openings --

The phrase "Go copulate with yourself, sincerely" comes to mind -- can't really type what I'm thinking -- and the fact that this a$$hat of a President is fomenting it tells me he was brought in to do it -- looks like the UNT Chancellor is going to get his wish of an MD school -- supposedly it's been a chip on his shoulder for a while.

Someone supposedly contacted the UNTHSC/TCOM President's office and stated in rather vigorous terms the amount of angst about this -- and questioned how the apparent discrimination would be viewed by the US Dept of Education -- according to my source, it got real quiet when that question was asked -- and then there were promises of a return phone call to address the "concerns".

Peckerwoods....

 

[costales]

Dr Williams is actually an accomplished (and wealthy) physician who never had trouble finding employment. He said he listed it as a 2nd medical degree in the beginning as extra insurance, but continued to do so because it had already been reported to the board and leaving it out might cause a discrepancy/omission. I am no fan of Dr Williams, but I'm okay with his explanation. (Williams is not the only DO/MD. There is an ob/gyn DO who bought himself a Caribbean diploma because he could - after he'd already won a faculty teaching award from the Univ. of Illinois College of Medicine.)

The MD school proposal didn't come from Dr Williams or Dr Ransom. It originated in the boardrooms in Fort Worth and UNT as part of the municipal arms race in MD school building.

I agree that the Valley desperately needs a med school - in fact, much more so than Austin which decided it "needed" a med school, because it's Austin (and Michael Dell, who wanted to put his name on a med school to match his children's hospital).

 

[JustPlainBill]

I'm emailing these people:
http://www.txosteo.org/?page=BOT
They seriously went to bat for TCOM students last time. It's sad that we have to ask outsiders for help.

Already discussed it with them -- screw the email, pick up the phone -- if I've learned anything, it's about who complains the loudest -- heck, if all 4 TCOM classes were to form a general student protest and make sure that Fox4, NBC5,WFAA8 and KXAS 11 were informed, had cogent arguments and then bombarded their state legislators, it could make a difference --

Anyway, TOMA has said they're studying the matter -- since no legislative session is going right now, it's TCU/UNTs day in the sun -- the thought is, let them have their day in the sun and then work the legislators regarding this -- that's where the real fight is going to take place -- This is being sold a good for Ft Worth, we need docs, etc....

Remember the facts --

1) 3/4 of DO grads go into primary care -- which is what Texas and Ft. Worth need right now. Especially with the baby boomers retiring.
2) 3/4 of MD grads go into specialty care -- their students are told they're too smart for primary care -- no, I am not kidding, I trained at an ACGME residency --- we had MS3/MS4s look down their noses at us in the FM residency that they had to rotate through to complete their degree --
3) They're using TCOM resources so how can it not affect TCOM students

We need to focus the money on residencies, specifically primary care residencies to meet the needs of Texans. No, NPs cannot fill that need, they don't know what they don't know and most of them go into specialty care or want to stay in the cities/burbs for the lifestyle.

this is not about OMM, this is not about maintaining our distinctiveness or any of that other AOA BS -- this is about filling a gap in patient care that DOs are uniquely qualified to fill -- yes, we can do specialty care, I get that, no problem -- but again, stats show that the majority of DOs go into primary care....

 

[CrocodilePancake]

Just chillin here in a non-Texas state like

 

[SAKM]

Hello all!

I too am a TCOM student. I recommend that all of you should watch this town hall meeting video with Dr. Williams to get a better perspective of this situation:

http://livestream.com/UNTHSC/events/4183573/videos/92476212

Before watching this video, I was extremely pessimistic about this venture. However after watching it, it became very obvious that it was only a matter of time before an MD school would be opened up in Ft. Worth. There was credible evidence to indicate that there were outside institutions planning to open an MD school. This would have created a lot of heat and conflict between TCOM and the new school. However, by opening up an MD school within the auspices of UNTHSC, this threat has been consolidated into a collaboration. I think with the rate at which TCOM is advancing, and given that the new MD school will still be in its infancy, TCOM will be the flagship medical school, of Ft.Worth for a while.

 

[Brahventus]

Hello all!

I too am a TCOM student. I recommend that all of you should watch this town hall meeting video with Dr. Williams to get a better perspective of this situation:

http://livestream.com/UNTHSC/events/4183573/videos/92476212

Before watching this video, I was extremely pessimistic about this venture. However after watching it, it became very obvious that it was only a matter of time before an MD school would be opened up in Ft. Worth. There was credible evidence to indicate that there were outside institutions planning to open an MD school. This would have created a lot of heat and conflict between TCOM and the new school. However, by opening up an MD school within the auspices of UNTHSC, this threat has been consolidated into a collaboration. I think with the rate at which TCOM is advancing, and given that the new MD school will still be in its infancy, TCOM will be the flagship medical school, of Ft.Worth for a while.

I agree. I just wish they would be more active in promoting TCOM and it's importance because obviously the general public of north Texas never heard of it as a real medical school.

 

[SAKM]

Yes, that is indeed a tragedy. In spite of all the services rendered to the community by TCOM, the Mayor of Ft. Worth was so quick to jump on the MD bandwagon. I guess that is part of the DO philosophy, being humble and not showing off one's progress.

 

[SAKM]

Here's something to consider:

Michigan state University had 2 medical schools:

1) MSU College of Osteopathic Medicine

Founded: 1969
Primary Care Ranking: Top 20

2) MSU College of Human Medicine (MD)

Founded: 1964
Primary Care Ranking: 51st

The point that I am trying to make that in today's world, a school's success is a combination of board scores, match rates, and facilities. TCOM is already doing stellar in the first 2 categories, and it has great training facilities and agreements with a county hospital for rotations. For the new MD school to wipe off TCOM, it would have to have even higher board scores, and even more impressive match rates, which in today's competetive environment is hard to achieve. My personal take is that MD venture was undertaken to 1) eliminate external MD threats from other institutions, 2) expand the scope of rotation/residency spots, 3) bring in badly needed research money and expand the research core of UNTHSC. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the new MD school would be very research oriented.

 

[SAKM]

Sorry, I meant to say Michigan State University has * 2 medical schools.

 

[itsogre]

Sorry, I meant to say Michigan State University has * 2 medical schools.

so did UMDNJ (University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey) before it was dissolved and the School of Osteopathic Medicine was merged with Rowan University, which recently established Cooper Medical School.

Mission of Rowan-Osteo:
An emphasis on primary health care and community health services reflects the School’s osteopathic philosophy, with specialty care and centers of excellence demonstrating our commitment to innovation and quality in all endeavors.

and:

RowanSOM is a major source of primary care physicians for the State and South Jersey.

• 2,332 graduates | 56% provide primary care | 44% practice in New Jersey
• 11% of these alumni dedicate at least half of their practice hours to medically underserved communities. (Source: http://www.rowan.edu/som/about/index.html_

Mission of Rowan-Cooper:
"Cooper Medical School of Rowan University will distinguish itself as an innovative leader in medical education and related research with emphasis on developing and validating comprehensive systems of healthcare for underserved populations as a model to address the challenges of accountable patient care in the 21st century and beyond."
(Source: http://www.rowan.edu/coopermed/about/mission/)

now, was UMDNJ-Osteo so inadequate at producing PCPs for the region that Cooper had to be instituted to address this problem? no as seen from statistics above, and the current UNTHSC situation parallels what NJ medical education experienced a few years ago. It is unfortunate for osteopathic schools who actually fulfill their mission to have competing sister schools (under the same university system and in the same region) that essentially duplicate their goals and principles. Will the new allo grads really flock to primary care in that region while each has a few $100k in private loans? e.g. look at TCMC's match list 2015

 

[biotoMED1923]

Hello all!

I too am a TCOM student. I recommend that all of you should watch this town hall meeting video with Dr. Williams to get a better perspective of this situation:

http://livestream.com/UNTHSC/events/4183573/videos/92476212

Before watching this video, I was extremely pessimistic about this venture. However after watching it, it became very obvious that it was only a matter of time before an MD school would be opened up in Ft. Worth. There was credible evidence to indicate that there were outside institutions planning to open an MD school. This would have created a lot of heat and conflict between TCOM and the new school. However, by opening up an MD school within the auspices of UNTHSC, this threat has been consolidated into a collaboration. I think with the rate at which TCOM is advancing, and given that the new MD school will still be in its infancy, TCOM will be the flagship medical school, of Ft.Worth for a while.

This makes me feel a lot better

 

[burritowithgreensauce]

At the heart of this I can't help but feel the AOA is to blame.its a sad day when my future doctorate in osteopathy is less recognizable than a PA/DNP/ND/DC degree.

Thanks AOA. But hey go make sure to enjoy using constituient money to get sh1tfaced at this years omed.

And to all the ms3/ms4 students dont forget to brown nose and be willing to sleep with an atrending for those extra gunner points. #osteopathy