MD v. MD/PhD

[DoubleHelix]

Hello,

Please help. What would be the difference from:
1. getting MD, and then, doing research without PhD along while practicing medicine?
2. getting MD/PhD and continuing research and practicing medicine?

Is it more difficult to be accepted into the MD/PhD program? What are the additional requirements and application processes for the MD/PhD program? Is it possible to be accepted into the MD program, and then, switch to the MD/PhD track?

Thank you

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[URHere]

These questions have been answered many times on these forums, but I'll give you a brief answer. If you want something more complete, just do a search and look through some old threads.

The key point is that you will need experience with research, grant writing, and the politics of running a lab if you want to make research a part of your career. An MD/PhD program will provide you with those thing while an MD-only researcher will have to find that experience elsewhere (through a fellowship, for example). Some people prefer one path to another and you need to figure out which of those paths is more likely to spell success for you.

As for competitiveness, MD/PhD programs have fewer applicants, but those applicants tend to have higher numbers and more extensive research resumes than the average MD applicant. So, yes, the programs are generally more competitive. You also have additional essays to fill out and extra LORs to submit with your application.

Internal transfers are accepted at several schools, but entry to programs is still highly competitive and varies from year to year. It is best not to hang your hopes on that option.

 

[Neuronix]

Please help. What would be the difference from:
1. getting MD, and then, doing research without PhD along while practicing medicine?
2. getting MD/PhD and continuing research and practicing medicine?

1 and 2... Practically none once an attending. You have to train at some time for approximately equal amounts of time. Whether you spend those years training during med school/grad school, during residency, or after residency is up to you.

Is it more difficult to be accepted into the MD/PhD program? What are the additional requirements and application processes for the MD/PhD program? Is it possible to be accepted into the MD program, and then, switch to the MD/PhD track?

At most schools the MD/PhD program is harder to get into than the MD program, as the stats are typically higher, state residency is not taken into account for MD/PhD admissions, and extensive research is required in addition to the clinical experience required for MD admissions.

For requirements and application processes, do a google search. It's essentially the same as med school + extensive research experience (2 years or more, generally) + extra essays and interviews. See the sticky guide in this forum for general competitiveness information.

It is possible to be accepted to the MD program and then switch to the MD/PhD track. How common or difficult this is depends on the individual medical school, and that ranges anywhere from it never happens to almost everyone who applies gets a MD/PhD spot. Generally, they will look at your application as:
1) Is this person someone we would have accepted had they applied MD/PhD in the first place?
2) Is this person performing well in med school?
3) Is this person continuing research in med school OR shows enough promise before med school that we can ignore this.

If you are accepted MD/PhD from the MD program you will have to pay for the first one or two years of med school. Thus, I don't recommend this pathway for anyone except the rare person who really couldn't decide before they applied but suddenly decides during the first or second year that they need a PhD for their personal goals.

 

[JmanDO]

Yes it is harder. I didn't know the stuff about essays and interviews (shock!), I'd previously assumed it was just due to higher stats.

There is one transfer student in our program within the past 3-4 years. I don't know how the competition was for him though.

 

[DoubleHelix]

Thank you for the information. all great advice!!!

 

[gbwillner]

1 and 2... Practically none once an attending. You have to train at some time for approximately equal amounts of time. Whether you spend those years training during med school/grad school, during residency, or after residency is up to you.

It really depends on the kind of research you are planning on doing... I agree that if you want to do primarily clinical research there is little-to-no difference... but going though this right now, and comparing myself to very motivated MD-only residents- I have huge advantages in terms of scientific projects- writing grants, abstracts, getting departmental funding/support, dealing with department politics.... and not to mention already knowing how to do scientific experiments and to critically read papers...
I feel MD/PhDs have a lot of advantages, but that doesn't mean MD onlys can't be high caliber researchers. Like you say, they have do get the experience somewhere. Those who go into medical subspecialties like heme/onc will have built-in research time. Those that will succeed will utilize this time, but it is not structured like grad school, and in my opinion you are less likely to be successful.
In terms of being an attending and doing research... I disagree only in that there are different types of faculty. Most MD faculty who do research tend to do mostly clinical research (again, not all, but most), whereas most MD/PhD faculty tend to be RO1 funded and do more basic science (this does not mean that it is not clinically relevant). There are different expectations for each... if you are an MD/PhD in a medicine or pathology department you may get away with doing no clinical work or minimal clinical work (whatever you want, really- there is always work for you, trust me), but if you are not grant funded, you cannot dictate the amount of work you are willing to do, and may not get to spend as much time as you want on your projects.

Sorry if this is rambling but I am exhausted...