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Your extreme tier is some surgical specialties, derm, rad onc, and also optho and ENT (which I believe are extremely competitive as well right?)

Are you suggesting that DOs have a couple of tiers of difficulty (easy/med/hard/extreme) while MDs only have 2 tiers (normal/extreme)?

There are differentiations, but they're overall less important. As grapes said, the program within the specialty is going to be more important for determining how competitive it is. An average MD student can still match ortho, but it would probably be at a less desirable program.

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Agreed, I will say though that people always forget that the vast majority of DO students are aiming for community IM or other low to medium difficulty specialties. Only a select handful actually aim for the really competitive specialties or programs. On these forums we tend to neglect that fact and act as if every incoming DO student thinks they are going to be orthos or do IM at BWH, this just isn't the case. One of my best friends is currently at one of the most established DO programs that has a good number of quality specialty matches every year and just under half of his class is dead set on FM and another good chunk is aiming for Peds or PC IM. Only really the top 25 - 30% of students are even thinking about something competative.

How much of that is influenced by the fact that they know they have no chance at the competitive places? After seeing all kinds of DO threads I have a hard time believing that the majority of these people would pick the community program over the competitive university program. You can see it in the celebrations that happen when one person matches IM at OHSU or mayo or from the list of programs DOs apply to that I see on the IM forum. Every list invariably has the "DO friendly" university programs in their region of interest. But a few months later you'll hear "I matched at my top choice IM program" which happens to be a community program because they didn't get any interviews at university programs. I guarantee you that almost all DO IM applicants would prefer to match at MGH, Brigham, BU, NYU, Mt Sinai, Emory, UWash, UCLA, or whichever competitive university program is in their region of interest....just like 90% of them would've preferred MD over DO.
 
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How much of that is influenced by the fact that they know they have no chance at the competitive places? After seeing all kinds of DO threads I have a hard time believing that the majority of these people would pick the community program over the competitive university program. You can see it in the celebrations that happen when one person matches IM at OHSU or mayo or from the list of programs DOs apply to that I see on the IM forum. Every list invariably has the "DO friendly" university programs in their region of interest. But a few months later you'll hear "I matched at my top choice IM program" which happens to be a community program because they didn't get any interviews at university programs. I guarantee you that almost all DO IM applicants would prefer to match at MGH, Brigham, BU, NYU, Mt Sinai, Emory, UWash, UCLA, or whichever competitive university program is in their region of interest....just like 90% of them would've preferred MD over DO.


I would have 100% agreed with you before I started school. But no joke most of my classmates just want to be a rural or small city family/peds/im doc and just want a to go to whatever residency is closest to home no matter the quality. Some of which had competitive stats (508+ and 3.6+) , but just chose to apply DO because they wanted primary care and knew it would be cheaper/higher yield to apply to just DO schools.
 
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How much of that is influenced by the fact that they know they have no chance at the competitive places? After seeing all kinds of DO threads I have a hard time believing that the majority of these people would pick the community program over the competitive university program. You can see it in the celebrations that happen when one person matches IM at OHSU or mayo or from the list of programs DOs apply to that I see on the IM forum. Every list invariably has the "DO friendly" university programs in their region of interest. But a few months later you'll hear "I matched at my top choice IM program" which happens to be a community program because they didn't get any interviews at university programs. I guarantee you that almost all DO IM applicants would prefer to match at MGH, Brigham, BU, NYU, Mt Sinai, Emory, UWash, UCLA, or whichever competitive university program is in their region of interest....just like 90% of them would've preferred MD over DO.

Honestly I don't think so. This site is nowhere indicative of the actual DO student population. Yeah I'm definitely sure there are a few students who are bummed out when they realize they won't match a top program, but they are in a small minority. Most students just go into school wanting to do FM, Peds, Community IM in a program close to the part of the country they are from or want to live. A lot of DO students are like me and are just grateful that DO exists and gives them a chance to overcome youthful mistakes and become a doctor.
 
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Most students just go into school wanting to do FM, Peds, Community IM in a program close to the part of the country they are from or want to live.
Can confirm, there is definitely a strong general interest in PC. Our FM club is by far the largest, as well.
 
Most of the DO students that post on this site seem to be either the most or the least competitive DOs and it paints the wrong picture overall. Most of them just want primary care and didn't want to waste a year boosting their app for MD with an MCAT retake or an SMP or whatever else.

Contrary to popular belief, these people are actually intelligent enough to do a google search and figure out what's in store for them. Very few are actually gunning for something crazy like a surgical subspecialty.


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Most of the DO students that post on this site seem to be either the most or the least competitive DOs and it paints the wrong picture overall. Most of them just want primary care and didn't want to waste a year boosting their app for MD with an MCAT retake or an SMP or whatever else.

Contrary to popular belief, these people are actually intelligent enough to do a google search and figure out what's in store for them. Very few are actually gunning for something crazy like a surgical subspecialty.


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I know of 4 people in my class (class of 100) who were accepted at MD schools but went to our school instead. One actually was accepted at 4 MD schools (he had a 31 mcat and 3.9 GPA) and came to our school... not what most would do but there are for sure some people who want to be at DO schools.
 
I know of 4 people in my class (class of 100) who were accepted at MD schools but went to our school instead. One actually was accepted at 4 MD schools (he had a 31 mcat and 3.9 GPA) and came to our school... not what most would do but there are for sure some people who want to be at DO schools.

I was initially gunning for DO only because I'm a non trad and there's a DO school 20 minutes from my house. I doubt that I would be competitive at my state MD, but I was never really interested in moving there anyway.

Had I known that I was going to be rejected at that DO school and would have to move anyway, I probably would have boosted my app and applied MD.

There's lots of reasons people apply DO besides academic inferiority such as location, cost, or the sheer convenience of not wasting any more time and knowing applying DO would be higher yield.

However, most aren't going DO because of those or other extenuating circumstances. Most of them just couldn't get in MD no matter what. Let's not kid ourselves.




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I was initially gunning for DO only because I'm a non trad and there's a DO school 20 minutes from my house. I doubt that I would be competitive at my state MD, but I was never really interested in moving there anyway.

Had I known that I was going to be rejected at that DO school and would have to move anyway, I probably would have boosted my app and applied MD.

There's lots of reasons people apply DO besides academic inferiority such as location, cost, or the sheer convenience of not wasting any more time and knowing applying DO would be higher yield.

However, most aren't going DO because of those or other extenuating circumstances. Most of them just couldn't get in MD no matter what. Let's not kid ourselves.




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I wouldn't say "they couldn't get into MD no matter what". Think about it, the majority of quality DO schools have MCAT and GPA averages approaching MD, and some of which are higher than a number of lower tier MD schools and or state MD schools. If you come from an "unlucky" state, and have a good GPA (above 3.7, and an MCAT around a 30 +/- a couple points you will most likely end up at a DO school. However, if you simply happened to live in a better state you could have multiple MD offers. Yes there are a lot of lower tier students at the new and crappy DO schools, but at the state funded/quality DO schools I would say a good chunk of the students for the most part are on par with your typical MD students (aside from the superstar MD students). Yes they are at DO schools because they didn't get into an MD school, but lets not kid ourselves and say that they couldn't have gotten in under different circumstances, and that every MD student is a superstar and will be a better student/doctor than all DO students. Geographic area, URM, mission based schools, etc all come into play.
 
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I wouldn't say "they couldn't get into MD no matter what". Think about it, the majority of quality DO schools have MCAT and GPA averages approaching MD, and some of which are higher than a number of lower tier MD schools and or state MD schools. If you come from an "unlucky" state, and have a good GPA (above 3.7, and an MCAT around a 30 +/- a couple points you will most likely end up at a DO school. However, if you simply happened to live in a better state you could have multiple MD offers. Yes there are a lot of lower tier students at the new and crappy DO schools, but at the state funded/quality DO schools I would say a good chunk of the students for the most part are on par with your typical MD students (aside from the superstar MD students). Yes they are at DO schools because they didn't get into an MD school, but lets not kid ourselves and say that they couldn't have gotten in under different circumstances, and that every MD student is a superstar and will be a better student/doctor than all DO students. Geographic area, URM, mission based schools, etc all come into play.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. I absolutely agree with you for the most part. You mention that students attending state funded/quality DO schools have stats that are similar to or even exceeding low tier MD schools. However, how many schools fall into this category? Less than 10? There's like 40 schools. If they were all on the level of those few, there probably wouldn't be nearly as much of a bias. But the fact of the matter is that > 1000 people were accepted to osteopathic schools last year with MCATs in the 20-24 range. That looks bad. Sure some of those people will be superstars and almost all of them will be competent physicians. But none of them could have gotten into an MD school. They just aren't on that level.

Now if MCATs matter that much in performance in school, boards, etc. is another issue entirely.


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I wouldn't say "they couldn't get into MD no matter what". Think about it, the majority of quality DO schools have MCAT and GPA averages approaching MD, and some of which are higher than a number of lower tier MD schools and or state MD schools. If you come from an "unlucky" state, and have a good GPA (above 3.7, and an MCAT around a 30 +/- a couple points you will most likely end up at a DO school. However, if you simply happened to live in a better state you could have multiple MD offers. Yes there are a lot of lower tier students at the new and crappy DO schools, but at the state funded/quality DO schools I would say a good chunk of the students for the most part are on par with your typical MD students (aside from the superstar MD students). Yes they are at DO schools because they didn't get into an MD school, but lets not kid ourselves and say that they couldn't have gotten in under different circumstances, and that every MD student is a superstar and will be a better student/doctor than all DO students. Geographic area, URM, mission based schools, etc all come into play.

This. I honestly feel about 1/3 to 1/2 of DO students could get into an MD school of they either lived in a better state, could afford an SMP or Post Bac, etc. the other half are definitely the kind who couldn't get into MD no matter how hard they tried, but I think it is arrogant and foolish to assume that just because someone was a ***** as an 18 year old freshmen and sophomore in college that means they are less capable or somehow inferior to the average MD student. Especially when that student turned it around and did well in upper level science courses and scored 30+ on the MCAT. That student will likely end up at a DO school due to crappy GPA but that really isn't indicative of how good of a medical student/Doctor they actually will be. I actually feel a lot of MD students will be surprised at how competitive and capable these types of DO students are. Not all of them are that way but they also aren't as few and far between as some people on this site would like to believe.
 
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The bolded explains about 100% of my students!

Honestly I don't think so. This site is nowhere indicative of the actual DO student population. Yeah I'm definitely sure there are a few students who are bummed out when they realize they won't match a top program, but they are in a small minority. Most students just go into school wanting to do FM, Peds, Community IM in a program close to the part of the country they are from or want to live. A lot of DO students are like me and are just grateful that DO exists and gives them a chance to overcome youthful mistakes and become a doctor.
 
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Decided to read this from the beginning and saw this gem of a post... what does any of this even mean? You're allo only but go to a DO? It takes some next level verbal reasoning skills to understand what this post means.
I think it means that he or she only applied to allopathic schools, but their personal physician is a DO. The rest of their post are things that are likely not true or only somewhat true, in my opinion.
 
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This. I honestly feel about 1/3 to 1/2 of DO students could get into an MD school of they either lived in a better state, could afford an SMP or Post Bac, etc. the other half are definitely the kind who couldn't get into MD no matter how hard they tried,

True. But the responsibility of finding out which DOs are just as good as MDs is the responsibility of the program director. Even if we make the assumption that 90% of DOs are just as good as MDs (and they are), it really doesn't matter. You know who's just as good as MDs 100% of the time? MDs.

It's not rocket science why a stigma exists. Again, if we were talking about just the most established schools and the state funded ones, it would be a different matter altogether. There really wouldn't be a huge difference in the applicant pool.




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True. But the responsibility of finding out which DOs are just as good as MDs is the responsibility of the program director. Even if we make the assumption that 90% of DOs are just as good as MDs (and they are), it really doesn't matter. You know who's just as good as MDs 100% of the time? MDs.

It's not rocket science why a stigma exists. Again, if we were talking about just the most established schools and the state funded ones, it would be a different matter altogether. There really wouldn't be a huge difference in the applicant pool.




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Oh definitely, I really wasn't even talking about the bias from PDs, they have a job to do which is get the best residents they can for their program and often DOs can be an unknown due to clinical education. What gets me is the MD students from state schools or other low tier schools that talk about superiority over DOs because of entrance stats when the reality is that a lot of DOs have the same or better stats than they did, but may be from CA (an example). This is honestly probably just a phenomena localized to this site though because most MD students I know couldn't give two farts about MD v DO.
 
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I think it means that he or she only applied to allopathic schools, but their personal physician is a DO. The rest of their post are things that are likely not true or only somewhat true, in my opinion.
Ahh I read it wrong. I thought they were going to a DO school but said they were allo only, hence my confusion.
 
Hi, I know this was probably addressed before here and there. But I really haven't found answers that are clear.

What's the difference between MD and DO? If you have the time to go into details please do. I was only recently introduced to the idea of DO schools so I know almost nothing about them. I don't want to sound uneducated so I'd appreciate any info you guys have to share. I know DO schools are slightly easier (for lack of a better word) to get into.

Also, I think I would like to specialize/go into surgery if I ever make it into med school. Is that possible at MD and DO schools?

Thanks!

Many DOs in big medical schools where there are a lot of other health professional programs (pharmacy, dental, audiology, optometry, PA, etc.) have an air of superiority around them, as if they're the top of the pyramid.. but I think this stems from their feeling inferior to MDs and so they feel the need to make themselves feel better by thinking that they are at the top of the pyramid when they're around "these other professions that aren't really doctors." Lol so that same negativity they get from MDs, they roll it "downhill" to the rest of us to make themselves feel better. I think if there was a school that had an MD and a DO program, in addition to the other health professions, it would be really funny to watch the students of the 2 programs walk around campus, each thinking his D is bigger so to speak.. Again, to reiterate, this is only a small portion of the DOs that I've seen and not all MDs think they're God's gift to humanity.. and yes, a lot of pre-meds aiming for MD are annoyingly aggressive too, somebody give this guy a benzo. Good day to all.
 
Many DOs in big medical schools where there are a lot of other health professional programs (pharmacy, dental, audiology, optometry, PA, etc.) have an air of superiority around them, as if they're the top of the pyramid.. but I think this stems from their feeling inferior to MDs and so they feel the need to make themselves feel better by thinking that they are at the top of the pyramid when they're around "these other professions that aren't really doctors." Lol so that same negativity they get from MDs, they roll it "downhill" to the rest of us to make themselves feel better. I think if there was a school that had an MD and a DO program, in addition to the other health professions, it would be really funny to watch the students of the 2 programs walk around campus, each thinking his D is bigger so to speak.. Again, to reiterate, this is only a small portion of the DOs that I've seen and not all MDs think they're God's gift to humanity.. and yes, a lot of pre-meds aiming for MD are annoyingly aggressive too, somebody give this guy a benzo. Good day to all.
I have had a fair amount of experience with DO and MD's. In my experience DO's tend to be more personable, easier to approach and the exact opposite of what you have described. That is my personal perception and not scientific proof. That being said, the literature kind of bears this out where they have better scores from their patients for bedside manner and tend to spend a longer time with their patients. This may just be the result of a majority of DO's being in primary care. I am unsure if there is something about their training that does this or if DO schools choose such candidates. Lets be honest though , there are very few people that go to DO schools who also have acceptances at MD schools. A larger portion of the obnoxious Physicians I have encountered have been MDs but that is just my personal experience.
 
Full disclosure: I have created a new account for privacy reasons (hopefully, you will understand why).

I chose DO because a DO school had the heart to believe in me and changed my life forever. I didn't finish middle school and therefore didn't go to high school. My father was in jail and my mother spent most of her time enjoying her life instead of raising her children. At 13, I ran away from home with my older brother. Fast forward...

Many years later, I magically passed the GED (not a difficult feat), enrolled in community college (while on/off homeless), and subsequently performed horribly (no means, no support...nothing). To fix the problem, I went to my school's testing center...5th grade math level and 3rd grade reading level (I guess I had successfully guessed my way through that GED exam, huh?). The only solution? Receive copious amounts of tutoring and study my rear end off. Fast forward...

I finished my last 80 credit hours of undergrad with a 4.0 (however, my GPA was still below a 3.5). Then, I enrolled in a graduate science program and finished with a 3.9 while taking several dental/medical school courses along the way. MCAT = 34. Friends and current medical students told me that interviews would be FLOWING in due to my life circumstances and work ethic. CRICKETS.

ORM, female, non-trad, significant improvement, unique life story, great EC's (thousands upon thousands of hours)...not a peep. However, I fell in love with the DO school that fell in love with me. I didn't sit around going "woe is me"...I took a tremendous opportunity and ran with it. Is life fair? No. Is my not being accepted to an MD a result of being inferior or less intelligent? In my opinion...absolutely not. Are there social barriers and prejudices that exist against people from my background? Quite possibly, but who am I to do anything about it.

As a second year, I am in the top 10% of my class and plan on destroying every exam put in front of me. Also, I love where I am...I would choose it over every MD school I applied to if I could do it all over again. Am I a unique story? Yes. However, I also have plenty of classmates from unique backgrounds (I feel that DO schools attract non-trads with different life experiences). All I ask is that before all of you judge DOs as being less intelligent, dumb, or inferior...remember that there are people out there who are simply happy to help people; people who are happy to be given a chance after having almost nothing in life.

But some people just love to feel superior. I guess to some people, a ditch digger will always be a ditch digger even if that ditch digger has a white coat
 
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I wouldn't say "they couldn't get into MD no matter what". Think about it, the majority of quality DO schools have MCAT and GPA averages approaching MD, and some of which are higher than a number of lower tier MD schools and or state MD schools. If you come from an "unlucky" state, and have a good GPA (above 3.7, and an MCAT around a 30 +/- a couple points you will most likely end up at a DO school. However, if you simply happened to live in a better state you could have multiple MD offers. Yes there are a lot of lower tier students at the new and crappy DO schools, but at the state funded/quality DO schools I would say a good chunk of the students for the most part are on par with your typical MD students (aside from the superstar MD students). Yes they are at DO schools because they didn't get into an MD school, but lets not kid ourselves and say that they couldn't have gotten in under different circumstances, and that every MD student is a superstar and will be a better student/doctor than all DO students. Geographic area, URM, mission based schools, etc all come into play.

This. I honestly feel about 1/3 to 1/2 of DO students could get into an MD school of they either lived in a better state, could afford an SMP or Post Bac, etc. the other half are definitely the kind who couldn't get into MD no matter how hard they tried, but I think it is arrogant and foolish to assume that just because someone was a ***** as an 18 year old freshmen and sophomore in college that means they are less capable or somehow inferior to the average MD student. Especially when that student turned it around and did well in upper level science courses and scored 30+ on the MCAT. That student will likely end up at a DO school due to crappy GPA but that really isn't indicative of how good of a medical student/Doctor they actually will be. I actually feel a lot of MD students will be surprised at how competitive and capable these types of DO students are. Not all of them are that way but they also aren't as few and far between as some people on this site would like to believe.

I don't know why you guys keep trying to perpetuate this myth. I guess it's like how the nurses keep parroting "just as good if not better" as if saying that will increase their educational standards.

DO schools are inferior schools with pretty crappy clinical years and their students have fewer opportunities. Most DO students would have went MD if they had the chance but were rejected. The average stats have very little overlap and the majority of DO students just didn't cut it. You can talk about life circumstances or geography all you want but facts are facts.

You guys also need to stop saying that there are "good" vs "bad" DO schools. It's like when someone says Ross is the Harvard of the Caribbean. Makes me laugh. Half of your schools just opened up. MD > DO every time. It's not even close.
 
The truth of the matter is this: there is a difference. But it isn't that wide. D.O.'s are well trained and after being a bigot towards D.O.'s I am starting to see that I was stupid. The system is fair as it is. It's easier to get into a crazy specialty with and M.D. but a D.O. is still a licensed physician. And for the people who are interested in helping people and practicing medicine, that's all that matters. I am applying M.D. And I have a friend who is applying D.O. At the end of it all, I will happily walk into his E.R. (Or be carted there) and be treated.
 
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I don't know why you guys keep trying to perpetuate this myth. I guess it's like how the nurses keep parroting "just as good if not better" as if saying that will increase their educational standards.

DO schools are inferior schools with pretty crappy clinical years and their students have fewer opportunities. Most DO students would have went MD if they had the chance but were rejected. The average stats have very little overlap and the majority of DO students just didn't cut it. You can talk about life circumstances or geography all you want but facts are facts.

You guys also need to stop saying that there are "good" vs "bad" DO schools. It's like when someone says Ross is the Harvard of the Caribbean. Makes me laugh. Half of your schools just opened up. MD > DO every time. It's not even close.


I don't think you really read my post, and if you did you obviously are lacking in reading comprehension. Your response applied absolutely 0 to what I posted. I was not even talking about the quality of DO schools. I was stating a FACT that a good number of DO students would have faired better for MD in other states. We were talking about intelligence. Not resources. Every OOS student at my school (state funded DO) has stats well above that of the average of most state MD schools (3.8+ GPA and 30+ MCAT) outside of the upper tier ones. I know we aren't the only school with high stat students from low yield states. You can't ignore that that fact. To say that we are intellectually inferior to MD students as a whole is silly (I know you didn't say this, but this is the argument we were making and you failed to comprehend that).
 
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I don't think you really read my post, and if you did you obviously are lacking in reading comprehension. Your response applied absolutely 0 to what I posted. I was not even talking about the quality of DO schools. I was stating a FACT that a good number of DO students would have faired better for MD in other states. We were talking about intelligence. Not resources. Every OOS student at my school (state funded DO) has stats well above that of the average of most state MD schools (3.8+ GPA and 30+ MCAT) outside of the upper tier ones. I know we aren't the only school with high stat students from low yield states. You can't ignore that that fact. To say that we are intellectually inferior to MD students as a whole is silly (I know you didn't say this, but this is the argument we were making and you failed to comprehend that).

Chip on shoulder much?
 
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I don't think you really read my post, and if you did you obviously are lacking in reading comprehension. Your response applied absolutely 0 to what I posted. I was not even talking about the quality of DO schools. I was stating a FACT that a good number of DO students would have faired better for MD in other states. We were talking about intelligence. Not resources. Every OOS student at my school (state funded DO) has stats well above that of the average of most state MD schools (3.8+ GPA and 30+ MCAT) outside of the upper tier ones. I know we aren't the only school with high stat students from low yield states. You can't ignore that that fact. To say that we are intellectually inferior to MD students as a whole is silly (I know you didn't say this, but this is the argument we were making and you failed to comprehend that).

True. But for every non trad, person from an unlucky state, or someone with geographical limitations, or whatever other special circumstances may exist; there are at least 2 or 3 22-23 y/o gunners from decently wealthy backgrounds that had all the advantages that people on these boards just at the end of the day underperformed in undergrad. These people wouldn't have gotten into an MD school in the most perfect circumstances. You can't ignore that fact.

I'm not saying any of these folks will be second rate doctors. In fact, I most likely wouldn't be alive today if a primary care DO hadn't diagnosed a condition that many specialist MDs missed.

But let's not distort facts.


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True. But for every non trad, person from an unlucky state, or someone with geographical limitations, or whatever other special circumstances may exist; there are at least 2 or 3 22-23 y/o gunners from decently wealthy backgrounds that had all the advantages that people on these boards just at the end of the day underperformed in undergrad. These people wouldn't have gotten into an MD school in the most perfect circumstances. You can't ignore that fact.

I'm not saying any of these folks will be second rate doctors. In fact, I most likely wouldn't be alive today if a primary care DO hadn't diagnosed a condition that many specialist MDs missed.

But let's not distort facts.


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I really don't think they're distorting facts. Maybe getting a little defensive but how can you blame them? There are licensed MD's on these forums degrading the education and the students in DO schools. You'd think those MD's wouldn't care about the differences anymore, let alone care at all in the first place.

As a future allopathic student, I'd be foolish to think there aren't many superior DO students ever year that weren't accepted MD or chose DO instead. I'd say I got lucky for many reasons. I can't be the only "MD accept" to realize this.
 
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I really don't think they're distorting facts. Maybe getting a little defensive but how can you blame them? There are licensed MD's on these forums degrading the education and the students in DO schools. You'd think those MD's wouldn't care about the differences anymore, let alone care at all in the first place.

As a future allopathic student, I'd be foolish to think there aren't many superior DO students ever year that weren't accepted MD or chose DO instead. I'd say I got lucky for many reasons. I can't be the only "MD accept" to realize this.
I 100% agree. I had a 34 MCAT and come from quite a unique background...to say that I am automatically 'less than' an MD student who scored between a 22-33 MCAT is absurd. While in graduate school, I outperformed 90% of the MD class over the span of 4 courses...are they better than me now simply because I went to a DO school?Moreover, several of my classmates have scored above and beyond on step exams (i.e. better than the average allopathic student). Are these future DOs still less than the average MD?

Although DOs may face an uphill battle for uber-competitive specialties, it can still be done. Is it harder? Sure. However, I would never want a physician who had it 'easy'. With that said, the majority of my classmates want to go into FM, neurology, psych, PMR, etc. So I don't see what the big deal is..."OMG, I can't match derm or neurosurgery...", who cares (the average MD student doesn't match into those specialties either). Moreover, I believe the tides are changing. There are many people in my class with jaw dropping numbers who CHOSE DO due to their SO being accepted at the same school, location, feelings of being 'accepted' as a non-trad, etc.

Fact: there are crappy MD's and crappy DO's. There are stellar DO's and stellar MD's. People who say anything else have nothing less than glaring insecurities. And any physician worth his/her salt will tell you that MCAT score and GPA says NOTHING about performance as a physician. People can do extraordinary things when they are given a chance and I am living proof.

In medicine, there is always someone better than you...ALWAYS. And, unfortunately, there are glaring socioeconomic barriers that prevent people from gaining acceptances (e.g. student A had to work 60 hours a week while student B was constantly reminded by his loving parents to keep studying and to not worry about anything else).
 
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True. But for every non trad, person from an unlucky state, or someone with geographical limitations, or whatever other special circumstances may exist; there are at least 2 or 3 22-23 y/o gunners from decently wealthy backgrounds that had all the advantages that people on these boards just at the end of the day underperformed in undergrad. These people wouldn't have gotten into an MD school in the most perfect circumstances. You can't ignore that fact.

I'm not saying any of these folks will be second rate doctors. In fact, I most likely wouldn't be alive today if a primary care DO hadn't diagnosed a condition that many specialist MDs missed.

But let's not distort facts.


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You are 100% right. But again, I am not talking about or trying to make any point other than people seriously are naive if they believe all MD students are more intelligent.
 
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You are 100% right. But again, I am not talking about or trying to make any point other than people seriously are naive if they believe all MD students are more intelligent.

Absolutely agree.


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You are 100% right. But again, I am not talking about or trying to make any point other than people seriously are naive if they believe all MD students are more intelligent.
In addition, let's imagine a student attending a DO school who WAS simply lazy, immature, etc, and never had the slightest chance of attending an MD school. Are we naive enough to say that he/she could not wind up performing better on the boards or in residency than a single MD student? If so, we are denying the ability of growth and human improvement.

Moreover, there is an overwhelming presumption on this thread that all admitted MD students are 'smart'...whatever that means. I know for a fact that I could outperform over half the people at my former state school and I can name some admitted students who had poor numbers for podiatry school. Some people know the right people and some people get lucky. Two years ago there was an orm accepted to my state school early assurance with a 22 mcat.

Some of the logic and hate being put forth by verified physicians is not only laughable and concerning, but lends evidence to the fact that one does not have to be intelligent or even logical to practice medicine.
 
Full disclosure: I have created a new account for privacy reasons (hopefully, you will understand why).

I chose DO because a DO school had the heart to believe in me and changed my life forever. I didn't finish middle school and therefore didn't go to high school. My father was in jail and my mother spent most of her time enjoying her life instead of raising her children. At 13, I ran away from home with my older brother. Fast forward...

Many years later, I magically passed the GED (not a difficult feat), enrolled in community college (while on/off homeless), and subsequently performed horribly (no means, no support...nothing). To fix the problem, I went to my school's testing center...5th grade math level and 3rd grade reading level (I guess I had successfully guessed my way through that GED exam, huh?). The only solution? Receive copious amounts of tutoring and study my rear end off. Fast forward...

I finished my last 80 credit hours of undergrad with a 4.0 (however, my GPA was still below a 3.5). Then, I enrolled in a graduate science program and finished with a 3.9 while taking several dental/medical school courses along the way. MCAT = 34. Friends and current medical students told me that interviews would be FLOWING in due to my life circumstances and work ethic. CRICKETS.

ORM, female, non-trad, significant improvement, unique life story, great EC's (thousands upon thousands of hours)...not a peep. However, I fell in love with the DO school that fell in love with me. I didn't sit around going "woe is me"...I took a tremendous opportunity and ran with it. Is life fair? No. Is my not being accepted to an MD a result of being inferior or less intelligent? In my opinion...absolutely not. Are there social barriers and prejudices that exist against people from my background? Quite possibly, but who am I to do anything about it.

As a second year, I am in the top 10% of my class and plan on destroying every exam put in front of me. Also, I love where I am...I would choose it over every MD school I applied to if I could do it all over again. Am I a unique story? Yes. However, I also have plenty of classmates from unique backgrounds (I feel that DO schools attract non-trads with different life experiences). All I ask is that before all of you judge DOs as being less intelligent, dumb, or inferior...remember that there are people out there who are simply happy to help people; people who are happy to be given a chance after having almost nothing in life.

But some people just love to feel superior. I guess to some people, a ditch digger will always be a ditch digger even if that ditch digger has a white coat.
I 100% agree. I had a 34 MCAT and come from quite a unique background...to say that I am automatically 'less than' an MD student who scored between a 22-33 MCAT is absurd. While in graduate school, I outperformed 90% of the MD class over the span of 4 courses...are they better than me now simply because I went to a DO school?Moreover, several of my classmates have scored above and beyond on step exams (i.e. better than the average allopathic student). Are these future DOs still less than the average MD?

Although DOs may face an uphill battle for uber-competitive specialties, it can still be done. Is it harder? Sure. However, I would never want a physician who had it 'easy'. With that said, the majority of my classmates want to go into FM, neurology, psych, PMR, etc. So I don't see what the big deal is..."OMG, I can't match derm or neurosurgery...", who cares (the average MD student doesn't match into those specialties either). Moreover, I believe the tides are changing. There are many people in my class with jaw dropping numbers who CHOSE DO due to their SO being accepted at the same school, location, feelings of being 'accepted' as a non-trad, etc.

Fact: there are crappy MD's and crappy DO's. There are stellar DO's and stellar MD's. People who say anything else have nothing less than glaring insecurities. And any physician worth his/her salt will tell you that MCAT score and GPA says NOTHING about performance as a physician. People can do extraordinary things when they are given a chance and I am living proof.

In medicine, there is always someone better than you...ALWAYS. And, unfortunately, there are glaring socioeconomic barriers that prevent people from gaining acceptances (e.g. student A had to work 60 hours a week while student B was constantly reminded by his loving parents to keep studying and to not worry about anything else).
In addition, let's imagine a student attending a DO school who WAS simply lazy, immature, etc, and never had the slightest chance of attending an MD school. Are we naive enough to say that he/she could not wind up performing better on the boards or in residency than a single MD student? If so, we are denying the ability of growth and human improvement.

Moreover, there is an overwhelming presumption on this thread that all admitted MD students are 'smart'...whatever that means. I know for a fact that I could outperform over half the people at my former state school and I can name some admitted students who had poor numbers for podiatry school. Some people know the right people and some people get lucky. Two years ago there was an orm accepted to my state school early assurance with a 22 mcat.

Some of the logic and hate being put forth by verified physicians is not only laughable and concerning, but lends evidence to the fact that one does not have to be intelligent to practice medicine.

What are your thoughts on the possibility of DO being reintegrated into MD and effectively making the DO degree obsolete in the future?
 
What are your thoughts on the possibility of DO being reintegrated into MD and effectively making the DO degree obsolete in the future?
1. If I was offered to switch my DO to MD...I would refuse. Why? Because I am going to work my rear end off to be the best physician I can be and two letters will never stop me or hurt me. I have overcome much greater problems and issues. And as a side note, I am in love with the DO letters because those letters gave someone from my background a chance to be a terrific physician.
2. If DOs fail to maintain a separate identity (if we even have a separate identity at this point), I may have no choice and the MD may be forced on me one day in the future (if that's the case, I would prefer MD/DO). With the merger, I heard that a few DO schools were offered the opportunity to grant the MD but refused...will this refusal continue...who knows. Another side note...at the hospital where I volunteer in the summer, a DO was forced to wear an MD badge for a few months due to inadequate supplies. So that should show you how people in the field who are educated/not ignorant view the distinction already. Lastly, every allo program director that I have spoke with (my former job allowed me to make several contacts) for the specialty I wish to enter just told me to take the Comlex with no need for steps as they said that they already have or have had enough DO's to know what the scores mean...and this is common among every non uber competitive specialty. //Is there a need for a separate degree? Again, I would at the very least prefer md/do or mdo.
3. I love OMM. Is there some bs? Sure...but as adults, we all have to put up with a little bs in life. Is OMM enough to keep or maintain (wherever your head is at) a separate identity? No...because I believe MD's should have the right to learn it as well (and several already are).
DO schools are already increasing standards to be comparable to average MD schools, but is still a work in progress. However, there is a girl in my class who was also accepted into U Chicago...so we are doing a better job of attracting the right students. But the satellite schools with really low standards have to go...along with the less than desirable residencies.

The AMA and AOA have a lot to learn. Schools are not accepting the right people and, again, many qualified students are shut out due to circumstances beyond their control. And it still blows my mind that people are accepted with little/no prior work history (given the hours you have to work as a physician). People are accepted due to how they look and who they know, but those from rural areas and or low ses are largely ignored due to a lack of research (why is that?) investigating whether or not rural or low ses goes back to their 'people' after training (I plan on it). The system is antiquated and needs an overhaul...the public has a generally negative view of physicians and medical errors are not significantly decreasing despite numbers consistently increasing. Also, physician satisfaction is at an all time low...probably from having to work side by side with some of the transcendent physicians on this thread.

If Allo's adopted Osteo's forgiveness, compassion, empathy, and diversity and Osteo's adopted Allo's academic standards and research aptitude the medical field would be a much better place. Many allo's go by the 'holistic' motto...but trust me, they are in no way/shape/form holistic. It is still a good ol' boys club where the people with the money and time have the best chances (I'm sorry, but a motivated person who has to work, is homeless, or has no support can in no way, shape, or form keep up with the average medical school applicant year after year without struggling). Instead of overcoming struggle being viewed as a positive, schools instead focus on a negative year or two, poor exam score, etc., to exclude such students from admission. If this is the way you think it should be...perhaps we need a caste system in medicine.

Sorry if that was lacking order, but hopefully it answered your question.:)
 
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1. If I was offered to switch my DO to MD...I would refuse. Why? Because I am going to work my rear end off to be the best physician I can be and two letters will never stop me or hurt me. I have overcome much greater problems and issues. And as a side note, I am in love with the DO letters because those letters gave someone from my background a chance to be a terrific physician.
2. If DOs fail to maintain a separate identity (if we even have a separate identity at this point), I may have no choice and the MD may be forced on me one day in the future (if that's the case, I would prefer MD/DO). With the merger, I heard that a few DO schools were offered the opportunity to grant the MD but refused...will this refusal continue...who knows. Another side note...at the hospital where I volunteer in the summer, a DO was forced to wear an MD badge for a few months due to inadequate supplies. So that should show you how people in the field who are educated/not ignorant view the distinction already. Lastly, every allo program director that I have spoke with (my former job allowed me to make several contacts) for the specialty I wish to enter just told me to take the Comlex with no need for steps as they said that they already have or have had enough DO's to know what the scores mean...and this is common among every non uber competitive specialty. //Is there a need for a separate degree? Again, I would at the very least prefer md/do or mdo.
3. I love OMM. Is there some bs? Sure...but as adults, we all have to put up with a little bs in life. Is OMM enough to keep or maintain (wherever your head is at) a separate identity? No...because I believe MD's should have the right to learn it as well (and several already are).
DO schools are already increasing standards to be comparable to average MD schools, but is still a work in progress. However, there is a girl in my class who was also accepted into U Chicago...so we are doing a better job of attracting the right students. But the satellite schools with really low standards have to go...along with the less than desirable residencies.

Hmm, well if the DO degree becomes obsolete, the DO physicians will remain physicians with equal practice rights/scope of practice with MD physicians. It's just that the DO degree would be historical at that point. I doubt that DO docs will be forced to become MDs.

The AMA and AOA have a lot to learn. Schools are not accepting the right people and, again, many qualified students are shut out due to circumstances beyond their control. And it still blows my mind that people are accepted with little/no prior work history (given the hours you have to work as a physician). People are accepted due to how they look and who they know, but those from rural areas and or low ses are largely ignored due to a lack of research (why is that?) investigating whether or not rural or low ses goes back to their 'people' after training (I plan on it). The system is antiquated and needs an overhaul...the public has a generally negative view of physicians and medical errors are not significantly decreasing despite numbers consistently increasing. Also, physician satisfaction is at an all time low...probably from having to work side by side with some of the transcendent physicians on this thread.

Interesting points raised here; I largely agree with many of those.

If Allo's adopted Osteo's forgiveness, compassion, empathy, and diversity and Osteo's adopted Allo's academic standards and research aptitude the medical field would be a much better place. Many allo's go by the 'holistic' motto...but trust me, they are in no way/shape/form holistic. It is still a good ol' boys club where the people with the money and time have the best chances (I'm sorry, but a motivated person who has to work, is homeless, or has no support can in no way, shape, or form keep up with the average medical school applicant year after year without struggling). If this is the way you think it should be...perhaps we need a caste system in medicine.

Hmm, but MD schools (including, surprisingly, the statwhore top tiers) do espouse and promote forgiveness, compassion, empathy, and diversity etc. These aspects are practically universal in MD mission statements. I doubt even the statwhores would blindly accept someone with say a 3.9/40+ (523+) + strong research without the necessary clinical experiences. And the non-statwhore schools (i.e. basically nearly all US MD programs) use various criteria to select the best candidates for their class, and these criteria do tend to be holistic. However, "holistic" is a term that gets misused quite badly in order to justify overlooking bad academics in favor of good experiences... these advantages really aren't seen in medical school and beyond, where good clinical grades + scores matter even more.

Honestly, it looks like DO schools are mirroring MD schools in these initiatives, which is not really a surprise since they are trying to establish themselves as strong institutions comparable to MD schools (the top DO schools that rival with low tier MD schools seek higher stats and offer research opportunities). That's why I really do not see the point of having DO schools around, since the final outcome in both pathways is the same... and the DO-to-MD conversion will actually improve the quality of education at the former DO schools (especially improving clinical sites and eliminating extra, unnecessary exams like COMLEX).
 
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Hmm, well if the DO degree becomes obsolete, the DO physicians will remain physicians with equal practice rights/scope of practice with MD physicians. It's just that the DO degree would be historical at that point. I doubt that DO docs will be forced to become MDs.



Interesting points raised here; I largely agree with many of those.



Hmm, but MD schools (including, surprisingly, the statwhore top tiers) do espouse and promote forgiveness, compassion, empathy, and diversity etc. These aspects are practically universal in MD mission statements. I doubt even the statwhores would blindly accept someone with say a 3.9/40+ (523+) + strong research without the necessary clinical experiences. And the non-statwhore schools (i.e. basically nearly all US MD programs) use various criteria to select the best candidates for their class, and these criteria do tend to be holistic. However, "holistic" is a term that gets misused quite badly in order to justify overlooking bad academics in favor of good experiences... these advantages really aren't seen in medical school and beyond, where good clinical grades + scores matter even more.

Honestly, it looks like DO schools are mirroring MD schools in these initiatives, which is not really a surprise since they are trying to establish themselves as strong institutions comparable to MD schools (the top DO schools that rival with low tier MD schools seek higher stats and offer research opportunities). That's why I really do not see the point of having DO schools around, since the final outcome in both pathways is the same... and the DO-to-MD conversion will actually improve the quality of education at the former DO schools (especially improving clinical sites and eliminating extra, unnecessary exams like COMLEX).
I agree with everything that you said...save for your last point on diversity (the diversity net is only cast so wide and focuses on a select group of individuals). Moreover, stigma's exist towards people from certain backgrounds (mentally ill, homeless, prison, etc.) I'm not stupid, pedigree matters, and medical schools would be even less diverse if they weren't required to accept students from certain backgrounds. Trust me, I proved everyone wrong (advisors, faculty, letter writers, etc.) when I applied. But it is hard to understand the barriers when few people have experienced them. Thank you for being respectful, however.

Do you think DO schools should close? If so, I doubt DOs would be happy saying to their patients, "Yes, my degree is no longer offered or valid". I do believe, if necessary, that there are are a handful that could convert to md/do, md, mdo, etc. since many MD schools also offer **** rotations. Who knows what's going to happen...
 
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Hmm, well if the DO degree becomes obsolete, the DO physicians will remain physicians with equal practice rights/scope of practice with MD physicians. It's just that the DO degree would be historical at that point. I doubt that DO docs will be forced to become MDs.



Interesting points raised here; I largely agree with many of those.



Hmm, but MD schools (including, surprisingly, the statwhore top tiers) do espouse and promote forgiveness, compassion, empathy, and diversity etc. These aspects are practically universal in MD mission statements. I doubt even the statwhores would blindly accept someone with say a 3.9/40+ (523+) + strong research without the necessary clinical experiences. And the non-statwhore schools (i.e. basically nearly all US MD programs) use various criteria to select the best candidates for their class, and these criteria do tend to be holistic. However, "holistic" is a term that gets misused quite badly in order to justify overlooking bad academics in favor of good experiences... these advantages really aren't seen in medical school and beyond, where good clinical grades + scores matter even more.

Honestly, it looks like DO schools are mirroring MD schools in these initiatives, which is not really a surprise since they are trying to establish themselves as strong institutions comparable to MD schools (the top DO schools that rival with low tier MD schools seek higher stats and offer research opportunities). That's why I really do not see the point of having DO schools around, since the final outcome in both pathways is the same... and the DO-to-MD conversion will actually improve the quality of education at the former DO schools (especially improving clinical sites and eliminating extra, unnecessary exams like COMLEX).

The further I get in this process I think that eventually LCME will overtake COCA and it will be the accrediting body for all medical schools. Next, I see some of the LCME research requirements lowered and that DO schools basically continue as they are, in that they will be primary care, community focused medical schools. Eventually I see COMLEX as an exit exam for COMS and USMLE will be the licensing board exam. OMM will probably still be a part of the curriculum in some capacity (mostly helpful in a PC environment) at these schools and ultimately the DO/MD thing will turn into the same idea as DMD and DDS except with a rough outline as MD=specialist and DO = PC. These schools will probably still grant the DO degree, simply for history's sake.
 
I agree with everything that you said...save for your last point on diversity (the diversity net is only cast so wide and focuses on a select group of individuals). Moreover, stigma's exist towards people from certain backgrounds (mentally ill, homeless, prison, etc.) I'm not stupid, pedigree matters, and medical schools would be even less diverse if they weren't required to accept students from certain backgrounds. Trust me, I proved everyone wrong (advisors, faculty, letter writers, etc.) when I applied. But it is hard to understand the barriers when few people have experienced them. Thank you for being respectful, however.

Do you think DO schools should close? If so, I doubt DOs would be happy saying to their patients, "Yes, my degree is no longer offered or valid". I do believe, if necessary, that there are are a handful that could convert to md/do, md, mdo, etc. since many MD schools also offer **** rotations. Who knows what's going to happen...

You are literally one in a million. It's great that you're proud to be a DO. But let's say you did get that MD acceptance. Do you think you'd still feel as positive about the DO profession? Or do you think you'd feel like no ones excuse is valid for going DO bc of the circumstances you overcame? Just curious.


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I'll be honest here. If you can get into a MD school go there. OMM in undergraduate medical education is honestly kinda a drag and frankly in my opinion no longer a significant reason for anyone to espouse the view that they choose to become a DO specifically. If you want to learn OMM then learn it at either an ACGME program with osteopathic recognition or through an ACGME program with DOs who practice it in the context of their specialty. I.e if you're in FM then learning to do some OMM that is applicable is probably not a bad idea and seems to be popular enough, but that does not validate the 2 years of OMM you'll be taught in DO school much of which really isn't all that useful or occasionally real.

In short, I'm pretty happy where I am as a DO student. I entered medical school with realistic expectations and goals that I knew were in all honesty attainable as a DO. And my major priority in choosing a residency program was being closer to home than ending up in an ultra competitive program that would have propelled my career in niche research. So in that respect I have no real chip on my shoulder nor do I have any sincere regrets about being a DO. And to some extent I am proud to be a DO, because when it comes down to it, it's a medical degree. I'm not so out of touch with reality that I actually forget that....
 
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The further I get in this process I think that eventually LCME will overtake COCA and it will be the accrediting body for all medical schools. Next, I see some of the LCME research requirements lowered and that DO schools basically continue as they are, in that they will be primary care, community focused medical schools. Eventually I see COMLEX as an exit exam for COMS and USMLE will be the licensing board exam. OMM will probably still be a part of the curriculum in some capacity (mostly helpful in a PC environment) at these schools and ultimately the DO/MD thing will turn into the same idea as DMD and DDS except with a rough outline as MD=specialist and DO = PC. These schools will probably still grant the DO degree, simply for history's sake.

In the end this is inevitably what will more likely than not happen. There will not be a major culling of DO programs in this country when the LCME takes them over. They will be given a 5 to 10 year period to get their crap together and 90% of DO schools will be retained and continue to produce physicians. Regarding OMM, I legitimately believe that it'll be cut down and most of the training will be saved for residency sakes. And more or less I think it's that way already, most DOs are going into PC or uncompetitive fields.
I know out of my 3 top choices for specialties all of them are uncompetitive despite my performance in class.
 
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You are literally one in a million. It's great that you're proud to be a DO. But let's say you did get that MD acceptance. Do you think you'd still feel as positive about the DO profession? Or do you think you'd feel like no ones excuse is valid for going DO bc of the circumstances you overcame? Just curious.


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HUGE DELETE.

I think you know the answer to that question already, and you can probably assume how I feel about being left in the dust. However, I don't like skin, eyes, ears, or throats...and I don't like sitting in dark rooms without human contact. More importantly, I would rather go back to being a maid before I ever chose to be a surgeon. So DO is just fine for me.

But a doctor is a doctor and I was out of time and resources. I would have been on a pole or slangin' with my brother to repay my debts. I just hope the next formerly homeless/educationally deficient applicant who applies receives a better reception than me.

At least now I will be able to provide my dogs with a better life than I had.

And to every MD who looks down on DOs...think twice next time. You have no idea what some people have gone through to get here.
 
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HUGE DELETE.

I think you know the answer to that question already, and you can probably assume how I feel about being left in the dust. However, I don't like skin, eyes, ears, or throats...and I don't like sitting in dark rooms without human contact. More importantly, I would rather go back to being a maid before I ever chose to be a surgeon. So DO is just fine for me.

But a doctor is a doctor and I was out of time and resources. I would have been on a pole or slangin' with my brother to repay my debts. I just hope the next formerly homeless/educationally deficient applicant who applies receives a better reception than me.

At least now I will be able to provide my dogs with a better life than I had.

And to every MD who looks down on DOs...think twice next time. You have no idea what some people have gone through to get here.

I'm glad I checked this thread in time to read your admission that you're bitter that MD schools passed you up and how you think residency is some sort of competition where you're out to "get" your coresidents and prove yourself once and for all rather than collaborating with them to take good care of your patients.

I'm sorry you didn't get into US MD school but your attitude suuuuuucks.

PS noone looks down on DOs. We just try to correct misconceptions and make sure folks realize what they're getting into. While MD=DO as far as the US government and practice rights are concerned there is (and will likely be for the foreseeable future) a big difference in clinical education and opportunities. And in that vein to correct a misconception stated earlier: the difference between MD and DO opportunities doesn't have to do with the "ultra competitive specialties". As I've said many times it's about where you go for residency not the specialty and MD gives you more options regardless of which specialty you want to do.


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I'm glad I checked this thread in time to read your admission that you're bitter that MD schools passed you up and how you think residency is some sort of competition where you're out to "get" your coresidents and prove yourself once and for all rather than collaborating with them to take good care of your patients.

I'm sorry you didn't get into US MD school but your attitude suuuuuucks.

PS noone looks down on DOs. We just try to correct misconceptions and make sure folks realize what they're getting into. While MD=DO as far as the US government and practice rights are concerned there is (and will likely be for the foreseeable future) a big difference in clinical education and opportunities. And in that vein to correct a misconception stated earlier: the difference between MD and DO opportunities doesn't have to do with the "ultra competitive specialties". As I've said many times it's about where you go for residency not the specialty and MD gives you more options regardless of which specialty you want to do.


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I read her original post too and I think you are overreacting. Bitter? Maybe. But understandable indeed. I think I actually know this girl by the way. I believe we went to the same CA school according to info in her original post. Plus she was in the newspaper a few times. Sorry if that threw any shade.

Anyways. Chip on her shoulder? Yes. Out to prove herself? It seems so, but I don't think that she implied taking down fellow residents at all. There is nothing wrong with having a chip or motivation to prove people wrong. It seems like it works for her if you ask me. And I don't agree that MDs don't look down on DO's. Have you even looked through this page?
I wouldnt be surpised if sdn gets sued over someone committing suicide one day due to the nastiness that takes place from students and professionals alike. You do you and let other people do them...it doesnt affect you in the end. Its like a bunch of cheerleaders putting eachother down about nonsense. Bohoo you get to be a doctor i feel so bad for you.

And can people stop doing the vs bullsh-t? Please...talk about beating a dead horse. Use google for crying out loud. And if you wanna be a surgical boss or world renown go md...that sums it up. If you wanna help people, who cares. My dad thinks np's are doctors and would rather see a pa over an md...this america...people have other things to worry about.
 
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At the end of the day, this website is just a bunch of j&rk of^s hiding behind computer screens, living our unhappy lives (life is suffering after all; make no mistakes, no one is immune, it's all a show).
I'm happy!
 
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If that was my cat I'd be happy too. Min s from the gutter and I just found him on my doorstep one day. One ugly sob.
Baby was a gutter cat too (abandoned). She has a minor seizure disorder, but she's a doll!
 
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For reference...I liked your comment, not the part about your cat having a seizure disorder haha

My cat's pupils are always dilated, never slits. Hopefully it is nothing serious. It makes me wonder though...
pics?
 
Two beautiful kitties!
So I was just adding humor by saying he's ugly (I did find him on my front steps, however)...but he's pretty cute too. I have two (and a Labrador as well...oh boy), but he is the one on the left. The vet said not to worry, but he is just starting out sooooo? I also noticed that his left eye trembles as well (off and on). Other cool fact: the black one is 25 (found him in a barn when I was a tyke). He's been with me a long time.

View attachment 209066
 
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HUGE DELETE.

I think you know the answer to that question already, and you can probably assume how I feel about being left in the dust. However, I don't like skin, eyes, ears, or throats...and I don't like sitting in dark rooms without human contact. More importantly, I would rather go back to being a maid before I ever chose to be a surgeon. So DO is just fine for me.

But a doctor is a doctor and I was out of time and resources. I would have been on a pole or slangin' with my brother to repay my debts. I just hope the next formerly homeless/educationally deficient applicant who applies receives a better reception than me.

At least now I will be able to provide my dogs with a better life than I had.

And to every MD who looks down on DOs...think twice next time. You have no idea what some people have gone through to get here.

No worries. Just curious if you would have felt the same about people who go DO for random circumstances if your extreme circumstances wouldn't have kept you out for MD.

While my experience was not nearly as harrowing as yours, I'm mainly going DO for nontrad/low SES reasons as well and couldn't be happier. The only reason I'd want MD over DO is tuition. I know MD has more advantages than just that, but it's not really applicable to me.


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No worries. Just curious if you would have felt the same about people who go DO for random circumstances if your extreme circumstances wouldn't have kept you out for MD.

While my experience was not nearly as harrowing as yours, I'm mainly going DO for nontrad/low SES reasons as well and couldn't be happier. The only reason I'd want MD over DO is tuition. I know MD has more advantages than just that, but it's not really applicable to me.


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I think people misunderstood my last post. If you put yourself in my shoes, every rejection I received made it feel as though I was invisible...that's all (more like, all the work I had done was for nothing). And the majority of my rejections came from MD schools (although, I was PO'd about a few DO rejections as well). I didn't understand it, but I took advantage of what I had been given with open arms and a smile. However, I do have a chip on my shoulder and I am out to prove myself; but I have been like this since I was a child (had to be).

As I said, my DO school saved my life. I would do anything for anyone at my current school, and as said previously, I will wear the DO letters proudly and wouldn't have it any other way. Will I find myself at Harvard or JH? No, but that was never my intention. I will end up in the same level residency and specialty as I would have as an MD student.

No matter where you come from or what mistakes you have made, if you have a chance to become a physician: take it. No judgment from me. I applied DO my first cycle because I realized that a person like me could very well fail due to stigma, poor academic performance in the beginning, etc. I mean, not everyone says lets take a chance on the girl who's father is in prison and whose mom is a flake. Not to mention the stigma attached to people who were homeless. DO schools, I don't know what it is, but they see a person differently. Even my fellow classmates are different. I have never had a 'home', and now I feel like I finally have one. I don't see the snobbery or elitism that I saw at my state school, so naturally, a person like me feels better in the environment I am currently living in (so I understand where you are coming from 100%). Lastly, I am learning a tremendous amount of information and feel myself growing every single day. That's all a person can ask for. If you want to apply DO only, do it. Like shoes, fit is the most important thing in life.

If I would had gone the MD route, I would have recognized that both MD's and DO's had the potential to be better than me. Anyone who thinks otherwise is out of touch with reality. Moreover, I recognize that human beings are not perfect and make mistakes...some of those mistakes exclude you from an MD acceptance, but not from becoming a tremendous physician. Learn from the past and do the best with what you have been given. That's all.

And yesterday I was kicking myself for even posting. But then a student PM'd me with a similar background who is currently in application to MD/DO stating that I gave him hope since I had been accepted. So I'm elated.
 
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I think people misunderstood my last post. If you put yourself in my shoes, every rejection I received made it feel as though I was invisible...that's all (more like, all the work I had done was for nothing). And the majority of my rejections came from MD schools (although, I was PO'd about a few DO rejections as well). I didn't understand it, but I took advantage of what I had been given with open arms and a smile. However, I do have a chip on my shoulder and I am out to prove myself; but I have been like this since I was a child (had to be).

Getting rejected from multiple DO schools with a 34 on the MCAT tells me that you may have had red flags in your application....an unflattering comment from a letter writer perhaps? I won't speculate further but this would certainly make anyone familiar with the process wonder.

I will end up in the same level residency and specialty as I would have as an MD student.

Way too early to say.

Regardless I'm glad you got into med school and good luck. Just realize that from here on out your attitude is going to be huge. I understand you feel slighted in life but at the end of the day if you are unpleasant to be around that'll be your undoing. I've found self-awareness to be the most important attribute to success and happiness in medicine (both personal self-awareness and surrounding oneself with people who are also self-aware).
 
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