MD vs. OD; which is harder?

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What graduate school is harder to gain admission to--medical or optometry?
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medical's harder
 
You know, I often wondered this myself...although I would tend to think that medical is harder (I can feel the arguments coming on), it's hard to say being that there are only 17 OD schools in the US, but countless medical schools including options such as MD, DO, and international MD schools. There seems to be so much more of an option when considering medical school. Of course from reading the other forums, many would like to go to the more prestigious schools, however if one didn't get into their school of choice, they could elect to go to a less prestigious school, DO school or international MD school; if I don't get into ICO, I have to uproot my whole family and move out of state....hmmmm.....:confused:
 
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It's true there are fewer optometry schools, but they get fewer applicants than medical schools, making entrance to med school more competitive. (Of course it doesn't feel that way to us when we really, really want to get into a particular optometry school! ;) )
 
Medical school is harder, more competetive to get into....but it is equally hard to get out of Optometry school as Med school.

My schedule is loaded, (UAB) ....we're taking more classes than the med students, and we still take basically the same clases they take (ie, Biochemistry, Medical Neuroscience--we take this this class with the med students)

We only get a 3 week summer break!

It's Hard!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by Future OD
Medical school is harder, more competetive to get into....but it is equally hard to get out of Optometry school as Med school.

My schedule is loaded, (UAB) ....we're taking more classes than the med students, and we still take basically the same clases they take (ie, Biochemistry, Medical Neuroscience--we take this this class with the med students)

We only get a 3 week summer break!

It's Hard!!!!!!
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But in med school, during the clinical years, you have to be on call and have to switch team every 2-4 weeks, get accustomed to different personalities while trying to learn, and get exposed to totally different fields every 6-8 weeks and start all over again.
 
i'm biased, but med school is harder. when we did gross anatomy, we had to learn EVERYTHING in extreme details. Opto students have to learn the stuff, but the majority of the time is well spent on head and neck stuff.

Most other classes are the same way. Granted, opto students have to take Optics, and more detailed courses about the eye, CNerves (maybe, our neuro was way to detailed), but we have to learn the details of every organ system in the body.

After all this, we have to take step 1 of the USMLE. not fun... The pressure to pass is usually high, but certain residencies the we have to apply to also DEMAND a high score, just to look at our application.

After that we have the 3rd and 4th year rotations as mentioned above. The we have to apply to places all over again to try and enter the field that we are interested in. Sometimes you get in and sometimes people have to "settle". After a minimum of 8 years of education, you may be a MD or DO, but you may not have the job you most desired! Then you spend the next 3-5 years training before you get the salary that was promised to you!

Opto has its boards after year 2, but you can just pass. When opto students get done, there is no more applications and interviews to go, except to get a job.

Sorry about it being soo long, but my point is this. Opto is easier, has a better lifestyle, you can make your income faster (right out of school), and there is not as much stress. I thought about opto, but decided on medicine instead.

Depends on what you want.;)
 
Don't make choices that are going to affect the rest of your life based solely on what kind of GPA you think you can pull in your undergrad. While both physicians and optometrists are called Doctor - THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PROFESSIONS!

Do what will make you happy. If you want to be a doctor but don't have the grades, consider a DO program or a foreign medical program - it is a cinch (within reason) to get into many of these. If you want to be an optometrist, do that. Now is the time to do some soul-searching, You do not want to get out into the real world of practice after a decade of schooling and $100,000 in loans to discover that you hate a profession.

I initially thought I wanted to be an M.D. and probably had a really good shot at it (I'll graduate this May with a ~3.9+ GPA and a degree in Biology). However, after some serious introspection I realized that the main things attracting me to medical school were money and prestige. What horrible reasons to pursue a career. I started looking at options, shadowing different health care professionals and such - and I found that I LOVE dentistry. I will never make as much money as an M.D., but I know that I have chosen a profession that complements my interests and will provide me with a lifetime of personal satisfaction. Do what you love and get paid for it! :)
 
Great post yosemitesam. In recent days I have been asking myself if I wanted to take the MCAT again and apply to medical school. After I thought about it I came to the same conclusion yosemitesam came to, I would be doing for the wrong reason...prestige. That is not worth it.
 
Originally posted by rpames
Great post yosemitesam. In recent days I have been asking myself if I wanted to take the MCAT again and apply to medical school. After I thought about it I came to the same conclusion yosemitesam came to, I would be doing for the wrong reason...prestige. That is not worth it.
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That's funny, I've been going through the same thing. I start to think -- my grades are really good, I did well on the OAT, why not try to see how I'd do on the MCAT? -- but the whole reason I went back to school was because I was so attracted to optometry. It's so easy to get caught up in thinking that medicine is the "most prestigious" ambition to have when you're in college and that's what everyone is telling you... I really don't care about money, I just want to do something I really care about.
 
just passing through. Want to note that OD and MD schools grant professional degrees. These are professional doctorates and terminal degrees in each respective field, however they are not graduate degrees.
 
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such great advices!! you know, i've been contemplating between opthamology and optometry, and it's been driving me insane because I couldn't make a decision between the 2! And you're right, mostly what attracted me to the med field is because of the salary. This has helped me decide to continue to pursue optometry, what my passion really is. Thanks!
 
One other factor which comes into play is the competition in getting on Ophthalmology residence. It's one of the most competitive to get. Being the top of your class does not even guarantee that you will get it. At this point in the game, the decision is really OD or MD/DO. You need to assume you will get an average residence.

There are three careers I can see myself as; 1. OD, 2. OMD, 3. Orthopeadic Surgeon. 2 and 3 are the most competitive residencies to get, my odds are slim to get one of them. I know I will be happy being an OD and the lifestyle is very attractive. For those reasons, I choose to follow the OD route.
 
Originally posted by rpames
One other factor which comes into play is the competition in getting on Ophthalmology residence. It's one of the most competitive to get. Being the top of your class does not even guarantee that you will get it. At this point in the game, the decision is really OD or MD/DO. You need to assume you will get an average residence.

There are three carriers I can see myself as; 1. OD, 2. OMD, 3. Orthopeadic Surgeon. 2 and 3 are the most competitive residencies to get, my odds are slim to get one of them. I know I will be happy being an OD and the lifestyle is very attractive. For those reasons, I choose to follow the OD route.
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How do you intend to carry OD's, MD's or orthopaedic surgeons? On your back?
 
Cute, I made the change. I find it interesting when people make comments of the spelling errors of other posters. Everyone knew what I meant. I suck at spelling, thats why I will have an office staff.
 
Originally posted by rpames
One other factor which comes into play is the competition in getting on Ophthalmology residence. It's one of the most competitive to get. Being the top of your class does not even guarantee that you will get it. At this point in the game, the decision is really OD or MD/DO. You need to assume you will get an average residence.

There are three careers I can see myself as; 1. OD, 2. OMD, 3. Orthopeadic Surgeon. 2 and 3 are the most competitive residencies to get, my odds are slim to get one of them. I know I will be happy being an OD and the lifestyle is very attractive. For those reasons, I choose to follow the OD route.
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Heh...just what I thought...I must be psychic
 
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Originally posted by rpames
Cute, I made the change. I find it interesting when people make comments of the spelling errors of other posters. Everyone knew what I meant. I suck at spelling, thats why I will have an office staff.
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There is an error of logic here: how will you know if the office staff can spell or not if you cannot do so yourself?
 
I hope you are just joking around. Besides, I won't need to know, my wife (in 4 months) is an English Teacher. She got my back.
 
I was being facetious. Congratulations on the forthcoming nuptials.
 
I believe it is hands down MD/DO is harder than OD. When you look at basic sciences, clinical sciences, Step I,II,&III, plus residency and a harder test to get in MCAT vs OAT.

I have several friends that are ODs and they did not even take cadever anatomy, no physical diagnosis, no significant pharmacology, and no residency.

Also, those OD residencies, the pay is low and quite a few do not even pay you a stipend.

I have worked in many hospitals over the past 13+ years and have yet to see a optometry consult written by an MD. For some reason, it is the Opthamologist who gets consulted.

Just some facts and opinions. :oops:
 
I do not understand your comment on residency pay. How does that determine which is harder?

I'm not aware of any without a stipends. I just did a quick spot check of about 35 residencies across the US and all of them had pay. The range was from $20,000 to $34,500. I only found 3 below $25,000. Most were close to $30,000 plus insurance and many gave money for moving expences.
 
Fine, so the residency programs have stipends. I agree, this has nothing to do with which is harder; OD or MD

But why did you avoid the topic of anatomy? Isn't it true that most OD schools do not have full body anatomy included in their education?

And how many actually have a cadaver lab where the students are able to perform the dissection -vs- having prosections?

Educate me...
 
What is OD school like?

I assume that the first two years are basic science. But what topics do you cover in them?

How about the last two years?

What do you learn in residency?

OD always want to do more and be the eye primary care doctor, so I am curious about your training.
 
The Wonderer,

I am taking 33 credits this semester.

I am taking Theoretical Optics 2, systemic pharmacology, cardiovascular, respiratory, renal, endocrine pathology. Learning all about EKG's and arrhythmias, Ophthalmic optics, clinical skills - blood pressure, EKG's, visual acuity, cover test, pupil assessment, pursuits, confrontation fields, keratometry, retinoscopy, subjective refraction, binocular balance, phorias, vergences, accomodative testing and trial framing. Also, taking NEURO - Neuro pathology, Neuroanatomy, also taking histology. Also, taking clinical problem solving, where we go over case studies. I'm probably forgetting other classes but you get the idea. Life is not fun right now!

Med school is more competitive to get into, but optometry AND med school are both equally hard to finish!
 
Here is the link to the curriculum at UHCO: You can scroll through all four years to see what we have to go through to become ODs. Keep in mind we have to take boards and state licensing exams on top of what you see in the regular curriculum.

Enjoy!
UHCO Curriculum
 
But, in case you want the easy route.. this semester (my fourth in OD school) I'm taking 21 hours.

Ocular Pharmacology 3 hours
Ocular disease and pathology 2 --- 3 hours
Visual Perception -- 2 hours
Optics 4 (ophthalmic optics) -- 3 hours
Contact Lens w/ Lab -- 4hours
Pediatrics (Vision Therapy) w/ lab -- 4 hours
General Clinic --- 2 hours (which includes: family practice patient care, vision screenings, dispensary, and seminar to practice procedures like scleral depression, D and I, gonioscopy, etc)

Anyone who thinks OD school is easy should come take this semester.
 
Medical school is definitely harder to get into, but not necessarily harder. Here are some statistics... Chicago Medical School gets nearly 7,000 applicants a year for a class size of 200. In Texas, since there is a central application, each school gets nearly 3,000 applicants for class sizes ranging from 75 to 200. Optometry schools don't get nearly that amount of applicants each year.

On the other hand, some Optometry schools can be harder than Medical schools to get out. At ICO, there is a quarter system, from this, you'll end up having 3 to 4 exams every week. EVERY WEEK!! Some Medical schools, such as the ones in the UT-system have no grades, but a fail, pass, high-pass, pass w/ honors system. This would definitely be easier than ICO. Take your pick......
 
Originally posted by FuturePA
I have worked in many hospitals over the past 13+ years and have yet to see a optometry consult written by an MD. For some reason, it is the Opthamologist who gets consulted.

Just some facts and opinions. :oops:
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Sorry, futurepa, I have to jump in here. Before I get to my point, I have to say that this whole argument is silly, and I hope it all stops soon. It's one thing to ask a legit question about what an optometry curriculum entails, it's another to make statements such as the one I quoted above.

Let me address it by saying the following:

1. The average Joe doesn't know what an optometry curriculum entails. This goes for the average Joe, MD. So Joe goes with what he knows, and refers to ophtho.

2. I am a hospital-based optometrist in federal service (i.e., I work for the government). I have lots of MDs that write consults to me. These specialties include: internal med, neuro, peds, endocrine, and even {gasp} ophthalmology. Yes, it seems that some days the ophtho folks are beating my door down with patients that need a specialty contact lens fit. I also get pretty regular peds consults. I used to get very few, then one day this pediatrician came to me as a patient. She has been referring crumb-crunchers my direction ever since. You know, I'd love to send you some of the consults, but patient confidentiality prevents this. Sorry, bud.
 
No matter how many times this topic comes up, it's worthless each and every time. OD's think they've got it tougher, MD's think they've got rougher...the only person that can make a valid argument is someone that has gone through BOTH curriculums (and that type of person would be extremely rare and probably wouldn't post on this board because he/she has to work double-overtime to pay off the loans).

I'll never say Opt-school is easier to get into/through because I've never gone through it. I can't say it's tougher or just as hard. All I know is it's there and that most optometrist do a competent/good job...and isn't that what matters the most? These peeing contests really don't amount to a whole lot in the end.

Sometimes I think people start these threads just to see what kind of back-and-forths they can get out of people...
 
Optometry School is a 4 year rigorous program where you have to study and work hard on a 3 term basis your first three years including clinic in your second and third years. The program in itself is not impossible but there is alot of reading and constant testing of alot of material. Certainly pass-able. Once you pass the NBEO parts I II @ III and any state Board licensing exam afterwards you are basically done. Unless, you desire a one year residency which can lead you to an academic/clinic/VA position afterwards. Medical school basic sciences is much detailed much difficult but they don't study optics like optometry students do. The training, the rigors, the stress is much higher in medical school than optometry school. Take internship plus residency depending on the specialty you choose can last anywhere from 3-4 to 10 years in addition to fellowship 1 or 2 years and there you have it. Which is harder MD or OD? Both serve a purpose in society and help people.
Optometry is an easy profession once you are out there. Medicine is a stressful and you work your butt off in most specialties you're in.
Bottom line: Medicine is much harder to get into than optometry.
Both programs are tough in there own and distinct way.
Ask a retinal specialist or most ophthalmologist what they thing about optometrist now practicing medical/ therapeutics and wanting more privileges- they laugh- they shake there heads in dismay not all but a majority of them.
Just wait---- and you'll all find out.
 
I was a little nervous about getting into an MD/DO school because I performed poorly in a couple of senior science classes. I took the OAT as a backup option. I scored a 380 and got accepted at Cal-Berkeley as an out-of-stater.

My success on the MCAT was not even close. I was fortunate enough to get accepted at an excellent osteopathic school with a relatively low MCAT.

If you're comparing the difficulty between the MCAT and the OAT or medical school and optometry school, I think it's really like comparing being accepted as a Marine vs. the National Guard. I am not dissing anyone, because I would guess that less than 1% of the U.S. population has a doctorate degree! I am just saying that from my experience, it's not even close when you consider the difficulty between optometry admission and medical school admission.

Hey, if you have a Dr. in front of your name, you should be proud to be in a fraternity of the intellectually elite. People respect you, so there's no need to compare upward - just look down and you'll see that you have everything in the world going for you! Be true to yourself and enjoy life after the training is over.
 
Hey, if you have a Dr. in front of your name, you should be proud to be in a fraternity of the intellectually elite. People respect you, so there's no need to compare upward - just look down and you'll see that you have everything in the world going for you! Be true to yourself and enjoy life after the training is over

Ramestiger - are you kidding? Hey, if you have a Dr. in front of your name, you should be proud to be in a fraternity of the intellectually elite
 
How rude and arrogant! It doesn't matter what sort of letters are in front of your name. You couldn't garner respect from anyone with that attitude.

By the way, don't refer to UC Berkeley as "Cal-Berkeley". It's either Cal, or UC Berkeley. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by ramsestiger
I was a little nervous about getting into an MD/DO school because I performed poorly in a couple of senior science classes. I took the OAT as a backup option. I scored a 380 and got accepted at Cal-Berkeley as an out-of-stater.

My success on the MCAT was not even close. I was fortunate enough to get accepted at an excellent osteopathic school with a relatively low MCAT.

If you're comparing the difficulty between the MCAT and the OAT or medical school and optometry school, I think it's really like comparing being accepted as a Marine vs. the National Guard. I am not dissing anyone, because I would guess that less than 1% of the U.S. population has a doctorate degree! I am just saying that from my experience, it's not even close when you consider the difficulty between optometry admission and medical school admission.

Hey, if you have a Dr. in front of your name, you should be proud to be in a fraternity of the intellectually elite. People respect you, so there's no need to compare upward - just look down and you'll see that you have everything in the world going for you! Be true to yourself and enjoy life after the training is over.
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Please note that I said in A fraternity, not THE fraternity. Yes, if you have a doctor in front of your name, you're probably an intelligent person - I'm sorry if that offends anyone (I never thought even this could actually offend someone). Yes, if you have a doctor in front of your name, you probably make more money than the average person and you are more educated. This is a reason to have a good self-esteem and there's really no need to worry about distinctions within the "doctor world." No one is saying that a person with a doctor in front of the name should be snotty - just that he/she should have a relatively high self-esteem because that person has a lot going for him/her.

From my experiences, I have found admission into optometry school to be much easier than admission into a medical school. Again, I apologize if that offends anyone. I think Berkeley is a top notch school for optometry and the average GPA for accepted students was around a 3.39. Again, I apologize if this offends anyone, but I thought this forum existed to share experiences and opinions.
 
You are right that this forum is for shareing information and ideas, but you have to know that there are many on the board who love to attack.
 
Originally posted by ramsestiger
From my experiences, I have found admission into optometry school to be much easier than admission into a medical school. Again, I apologize if that offends anyone. I think Berkeley is a top notch school for optometry and the average GPA for accepted students was around a 3.39. Again, I apologize if this offends anyone, but I thought this forum existed to share experiences and opinions.
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usually Berkely's average is closer to 3.6... unless they've slipped in the past few years since I got in. The letter they sent me (when I got recjected) said they had a minimum GPA of 3.2 and a minimum OAT of 320. (and at least 310 on each section of the test). I had everything except the 310 on every section. I made a 300 on one section.. the horror! ;)
 
http://spectacle.berkeley.edu/ucbso/admitprofl.html

usually Berkely's average is closer to 3.6... unless they've slipped in the past few years since I got in. The letter they sent me (when I got recjected) said they had a minimum GPA of 3.2 and a minimum OAT of 320. (and at least 310 on each section of the test). I had everything except the 310 on every section. I made a 300 on one section.. the horror!
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The average GPA for 2002 was 3.31 - it was 3.39 for 2001. The highest it's been in the last 7 years is 3.48. I was accepted with only 2 hours of volunteer work at an optometrist's office. Again, optometry is a great profession with intelligent students. However, if you have any serious doubts about the differences in difficulty, just take a sample MCAT at your local Kaplan Center for free. The difference is very noticeable.

I very seriously considered becoming an optometrist so I have a lot of experience with both general medicine (osteopathic and allopathic) and optometry admissions. My intention was never to offend anyone - I'm just sharing my experiences.
 
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