MDs are telling me not to go to med school

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MackandBlues

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So I'm 30 and work with alot of attendings and residents. I mentioned that I was thinking about going to med school to them and most are like "Noooo don't do it!!!!" Some of the reasons are financially based on my current salary and amount of debt I'd be taking on, it would take 3.5 years of working as an attending to "break even" financially and not considering compound interest of investing my salary instead of going back to school. Also they say your 30s are the prime of your life which would be better spent not in school. Current residents are saying they wish they had the vacation time to travel. Anyone regret going back to med school?

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Are you passionate about medicine? Do you dream of being a doctor? Do you really want to help people? If you answered yes to the above questions, forget about the finances. I'll probably never break even, but I'm not very passionate about what I'm doing. I agree 30s is the prime of your life and there is NO PLACE I'D RATHER BE than in medical school.

I've made a lot of money, but not following my heart and passion. I had many doubts about medicine along the way, but I really want it at this point. If you feel that way, go for it.

Disclaimer: I don't turn 30 until later this year and I'm not likely to start med school until next fall at the earliest.
 
Don't listen to residents about going into medicine. They are in the suck and everything is doom & gloom...same as it'll be for us. Nature of the profession.

There's money in medicine. Not boatloads but you're not going to go broke however don't go overboard in debt while in school. Also don't go out after residency and get deeper into debt.

30's prime? Please! Do what you're passionate about. Yes the years matter and we will feel them with all the aches and pains of being old farts but we can be old farts who are physicians or just old farts.
 
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I believe its the unrealistic expectations that the "younger generation" of upcoming physicians (current residents) have about being a doctor and income. They think they are going to make gobs of money, be put on a pedestal and be an expert (yes I know its a generalization). A lot of my younger classmates mid third year started to ask themselves if medicine was something they really wanted to do.. happens to a lot of students due to the shocking realization of what medicine really is.

I went back to med school at 31. When I was on IM inpatient I was flabbergasted with the complaints from the residents on how hard they worked. I didnt get it because I would show up earlier and round before them and then would leave the hospital when they did, plus take call when they were on call. I put more time in then they did. But I was fine with the hours going in at 5:30 and coming home at 6. That gave me 2 hours with my kids, an hour with my wife and then an hour to study before bed.

I think spending time (8 years more than the avg med student straight from college) in the "real world" of working hard and providing for a family gave me a much different perspective.

As to the physicians.. they've lived a life with a much higher salary, now to see it diminish with gobs of more paperwork/regulations over the last 10 years. I'd be grumpy too. Hard to change their lifestyle. My cardiologist friend said in the last 5 years he's lost 40% of his salary.

Going into medicine I know I'm not going to make millions, and know there will be lots of challenges - but I'm accepting that because I will have a steady job that will provide well for my kids and my income will be well above the avg joe.. See some of my other posts as to how I've managed the larger debt load and family life.
 
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I, too, work at an academic hospital and i'm 30 and if all goes as planned, i'm applying next summer. I work all day around med students, residents, fellows, and my experience has been positive whenever i express interest in become a physician. All the cardiologists encouraged me to do it. I have 3 Cardiologist/Attendings willing to write me a LOR. One of the internal medicine physicians i worked for was willing to write me a LOR and i had only work with her a few times.She even connected me to one of the adcoms at a med school in Massachusetts. She told me, take you pre-requisites at a community college and go for it.

Personally, my best years were in my 20's, when i turned 30 i slowed down. I felt like i had more to offer the world and i wasnot taking advantage of my talents. Keep in mind misery loves company. While some of the residents and fellows may be sincere about their advice, they are some that have no business being physicians and are bitter. I have met some absolutely wonderful med. students, residents, and fellows, who were honest about the experiences, but never once discouraged me from pursuing medicine. If this is what you want, go for it. It's that simple. Expect obstacles along your journey but ALWAYS keep your eye on your goal.

I'm one of those strange folks out there, if you tell me i can't do something, not only will i do it just to proof you wrong, I'll do it better than everyone! Just because i can=)
 
Since I mostly frequent the non-trad forum, I might as well make this a signature or something.

If you won $10 million tomorrow, would you still apply to med school? Would you channel those resources to be a physician?? If you can honestly say yes, DO IT!

Orthojoe's post is pretty spot on. Being a doctor isn't as "sexy" as it used to be. NO you aren't held in esteem of everyone. NO you aren't paid a prince's ransom. Dr Google makes about 25% of your patients to feel they know more or as much as you do when they come w/ a problem (so why go into debt and get all the extra education?). ACA/Obamacare is going to start chopping salaries. And like ortho I know a few docs who would rather join huge medical groups or hasten towards retirement than compete w/ the bureaucracy and paperwork required to practice medicine these days. SOOOO much of what you are supposed to make goes to billing assistants. One of my OB preceptors is a private practice physician, and he works in a large practice w/ 8 other OB's. They have 4 women who's sole job is to file insurance reimbursement paper. Not to mention all of the nurses/medical assistance and admins have to be decently versed in paperwork too.

Anyways, 1 out of 4 patients are "smart-aleks" thanks to the Internet and maybe 1 out of 10 you flat wouldn't even want to help if you weren't obligated. (ie - I had a HIV positive mom who didn't want to take her HAART's because it was too bothersome, even tho she was pregnant).

There's no glitz. No glamour. Doctors these days are working stiffs just like the rest of the world. If you want to pull in a paycheck doing this for the rest of your life, by all means keep going. If you just want a paycheck, the residents are right. Just be a PA or a NP. Less of a hassle, and mid-levels get compensated almost as much as docs do.
 
Only thing that matters is you. I have been told many times in my life so far that I can't do certain things (example: I had back surgery when I was 16, I was told I would never do anything physical again. When I turned 18 I had to go to MEPS 5 times! Just to get into the Marine Infantry)

Be who you are and be who you want to be.
 
Great responses by several SDN people. I concur. Do what you want to do, do what drives you, do what makes you passionate. Ignore the naysayers. Most physicians I contacted prior to applying to medical school (I've worked with thousands) told me NOT to do it. They are bitter, dour, depressed and frankly, need to retire. These are the physicians that gave us the mess we have today. These are the physicians who gave us HMOs (a 1980s anomaly), which gave us PPOs and now the real mess we have today: staggered 90+ days reimbursement schedule. It is pathetic. Those physicians who tell people like us NOT to go into medicine should be slapped down (figuratively). If they whine in front of me, I give it to them. "You are dour. You are part of the problem. Make room for people like me who want to be in medicine. Leave already". That shuts them up quickly

I told a specialist this recently, a former boss no less, when I recently shadowed him. He was sitting in his office talking to a young pre-med who was starry eyed to be in his presence, and he called me into his office to talk about the state of Medicine. i stopped him in 30 seconds. He stared at me as I told him, "remember, I am not 23 years old, like this young pre-med. Sweetheart, you are about to get quite an education by watching our interaction so take notes. Jim (fake name), I am older and I have no intentions of shutting up when people like you speak so dismally of medicine. I'll stand up to you and put you in check in a heart beat because I know better. You need to retire. Make it soon. I want your job. Stop complaining. You've made a go run at it. Perhaps it's time to make room for new blood"

and so forth.

Today I got my letter of reference from his secretary. It was glowing. He respects me and reads my blog regularly. You don't have to be an as*wipe to go into medicine. Know when to listen. If you are older and command respect, share a few thoughts with your audience. They might need to hear them. But make sure you have earned "the right to close"....going for the kill takes a skill, an earned opportunity b/c you have put in your time with your audience.

Dont let these buzzards keep you down. However, if you are going into medicine because of money, I would ask you to run for Congress instead. They make far more money and there are scores of people waiting for your admissions seat.

I am old(er) and I am thrilled with my past experiences. I wake every morning excited to be in medical school and look forward to my week, my year, my rotations and Residency....and Fellowship if it comes to that. Because medicine should be about a Journey.......not about arriving.

Salut!

http://roadlesstraveledmd.wordpress.com
 
All this talk of passion and dreams for a job, makes me wonder of the people who have such feelings have ever been boned properly. I mean by all means enjoy taking care of people. It's a warm vibe and a rewarding ASPECT of the trade, but....

Passion is for lovers, and makers of music and art. And for freedom fighters and revolutions.

Satisfaction, perhaps deeply, is for careers.

Whatever, just my take.

OP, it's a fine career, and I'm on the extreme end of it being financially foolish.
 
I spent my 30s on vacation a bunch and did a lot of travel. Started med school in my early 40s and so far so good.

I ran the numbers and I am pretty much breaking even... If I stayed in my original career and worked, I would retire with the exact same amount of money.

But then I wouldn't get to be a doctor.
 
...When I was on IM inpatient I was flabbergasted with the complaints from the residents on how hard they worked. I didnt get it because I would show up earlier and round before them and then would leave the hospital when they did, plus take call when they were on call. I put more time in then they did. But I was fine with the hours going in at 5:30 and coming home at 6....

While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, to be fair most med students who claim they put in the same or longer hours than the resident aren't very tuned in to what the residents are actually doing when the med students go home "at 6", on weekends, etc. I have had plenty of med students who put in decent 60 hours of work claiming they worked as many hours as the residents (even on weeks where I actually topped 80 hours). Plus there are a variety of tests and studying residents have to do daily for their boards and inservice exams that med students really aren't privy to, but do cut into your "spare" time. It is a hard job even though I agree some complain about it too much.
 
Don't listen to residents about going into medicine....

I would argue that this is precisely the group to get advice from because they aren't going to sugar coat it.

A lot of us went back to med school at a financial loss. Some of us will never get back to the point we would have been if they stayed put. So what -- this decision isn't really about money.

A lot if nontrads went back to school after they already enjoyed their twenties, early thirties, etc. I would agree, you won't be doing a lot of non-medicine traveling or living during med school and residency so there's a distinct advantage to already having lived a bit first and now being ready to get serious.

I think there are good and bad reasons to pursue this career. Cost and time shouldn't be determinative if it's what you love, but if things like financial prosperity are driving this train get off now.
 
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While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, to be fair most med students who claim they put in the same or longer hours than the resident aren't very tuned in to what the residents are actually doing when the med students go home "at 6", on weekends, etc. I have had plenty of med students who put in decent 60 hours of work claiming they worked as many hours as the residents (even on weeks where I actually topped 80 hours). Plus there are a variety of tests and studying residents have to do daily for their boards and inservice exams that med students really aren't privy to, but do cut into your "spare" time. It is a hard job even though I agree some complain about it too much.


Touche. This is a great point. We do need to be reminded of this. However, some med students do have at least some understanding of all the additional things residents have to do outside of what we see you do in the hospital with us. It is hard to be you guys.
 
While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, to be fair most med students who claim they put in the same or longer hours than the resident aren't very tuned in to what the residents are actually doing when the med students go home "at 6", on weekends, etc. I have had plenty of med students who put in decent 60 hours of work claiming they worked as many hours as the residents (even on weeks where I actually topped 80 hours). Plus there are a variety of tests and studying residents have to do daily for their boards and inservice exams that med students really aren't privy to, but do cut into your "spare" time. It is a hard job even though I agree some complain about it too much.
Agreed to a point.

I didn't go home on the weekend. I was assigned to a resident team and worked on Saturday,Sunday when they worked and took call when they took call. I had their same schedule and was expected to be there before they were to per-round and stay until all work was done and the residency intern went home.

Why doesn't my studying apply? As you mentioned they are studying for exams and learning , so was I. I had shelf exams, board exams, studying to understand what I was doing, putting together a required presentation for the end of the rotation, etc. why doesn't this not count?

Yea I'm sure residents worked and did things I was not privy too, but the same can be applied to me during the same period.

The point is that the only way to truly know if medicine is for you is to experience it. Two residents in the same program can give completely opposite advice. I find the residents who had less work experience and less "outside" responsibilities are more negative towards the time commitments of medicine and the declining salary.
 
So I'm 30 and work with alot of attendings and residents. I mentioned that I was thinking about going to med school to them and most are like "Noooo don't do it!!!!" Some of the reasons are financially based on my current salary and amount of debt I'd be taking on, it would take 3.5 years of working as an attending to "break even" financially and not considering compound interest of investing my salary instead of going back to school. Also they say your 30s are the prime of your life which would be better spent not in school. Current residents are saying they wish they had the vacation time to travel. Anyone regret going back to med school?
Regret is a strong word, but if I could go back a decade, no, I would not have gone to medical school. I'm finding ways to make lemonade out of my lemons, but that doesn't change the fact that the kool aid is still kinda sour for me. That being said, I'm me, and you're you. I would never tell you that just because *I* would rather not be a physician that *you* shouldn't be one. You may love it. I hope you do.

FWIW, the reasons why I would not want to go to medical school again given the chance for a do-over have nothing whatsoever to do with the money. I was fully scholarshipped to medical school and did not have to take out loans. I mainly worked minimum wage level jobs prior to med school, so I did not lose much in the way of income by going to med school, either. In fact, I'm making more money as a resident than I have at any other point in my life up until now. My reasons do have to do with the time involved, but primarily in the sense that I'm doing something so all-consuming that is not as good of a match for my interests and personality as I would have hoped.

However, in terms of whether the time it takes to become a physician is "worth" spending, that's something each of you has to answer for yourselves. If medicine is a career that you want from your heart, then it is worth the time needed to train for it. The age you are when you start is mostly irrelevant. But you do have to have some streak of altruism in you if you're going to be successful and happy in this career. I get a bit of an uncomfortable feeling any time I hear a doc say that medicine is "just a job." It's not. Or more accurately, it shouldn't be. Those who are mainly going into medicine for reasons of pay and prestige are bound to be disillusioned quickly.

I believe its the unrealistic expectations that the "younger generation" of upcoming physicians (current residents) have about being a doctor and income. They think they are going to make gobs of money, be put on a pedestal and be an expert (yes I know its a generalization). A lot of my younger classmates mid third year started to ask themselves if medicine was something they really wanted to do.. happens to a lot of students due to the shocking realization of what medicine really is.
I'd agree with this, though it's not limited just to trads.

I went back to med school at 31. When I was on IM inpatient I was flabbergasted with the complaints from the residents on how hard they worked. I didnt get it because I would show up earlier and round before them and then would leave the hospital when they did, plus take call when they were on call. I put more time in then they did. But I was fine with the hours going in at 5:30 and coming home at 6. That gave me 2 hours with my kids, an hour with my wife and then an hour to study before bed.
I went back to med school at 31 too. I thought I worked hard as an MS3 on IM too, and at the time when I was in med school, residents could still take 30 hour call. I took q4 call with my team. I thought I worked just as hard as the residents did. I didn't. Neither did you. I'll more than grant you though that the residents likely out-complained you and your classmates by a fair margin. Unlike you all, our evals aren't as negatively affected by us complaining. ;)

Along with what L2D said, you also can't discount the fact that, as a student, nothing you do matters. At all. Show up, don't show up, no one cares unless they're interested in educating medical students. The system can get by perfectly well (and often better) without you; you have no real responsibility; and it's your own tuition dollars you're wasting if you game the system and don't get as much out of your education as humanly possible. That all changes once you start residency. You seem like you're already a hardworking guy, but I'll be very surprised if you come back in six months and say that you still think you worked harder as an MS3 than you did as an intern. I could be wrong though.

These are the physicians that gave us the mess we have today. These are the physicians who gave us HMOs (a 1980s anomaly), which gave us PPOs and now the real mess we have today: staggered 90+ days reimbursement schedule. It is pathetic. Those physicians who tell people like us NOT to go into medicine should be slapped down (figuratively). If they whine in front of me, I give it to them. "You are dour. You are part of the problem. Make room for people like me who want to be in medicine. Leave already". That shuts them up quickly

I told a specialist this recently, a former boss no less, when I recently shadowed him. He was sitting in his office talking to a young pre-med who was starry eyed to be in his presence, and he called me into his office to talk about the state of Medicine. i stopped him in 30 seconds. He stared at me as I told him, "remember, I am not 23 years old, like this young pre-med. Sweetheart, you are about to get quite an education by watching our interaction so take notes. Jim (fake name), I am older and I have no intentions of shutting up when people like you speak so dismally of medicine. I'll stand up to you and put you in check in a heart beat because I know better. You need to retire. Make it soon. I want your job. Stop complaining. You've made a go run at it. Perhaps it's time to make room for new blood"

and so forth.

Today I got my letter of reference from his secretary. It was glowing. He respects me and reads my blog regularly. You don't have to be an as*wipe to go into medicine. Know when to listen. If you are older and command respect, share a few thoughts with your audience. They might need to hear them. But make sure you have earned "the right to close"....going for the kill takes a skill, an earned opportunity b/c you have put in your time with your audience.
I don't believe this story for one second, but I do appreciate the laugh. You're....an interesting guy or gal. Though I do have some pity for your future residents when you hit the wards. :laugh:

While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, to be fair most med students who claim they put in the same or longer hours than the resident aren't very tuned in to what the residents are actually doing when the med students go home "at 6", on weekends, etc. I have had plenty of med students who put in decent 60 hours of work claiming they worked as many hours as the residents (even on weeks where I actually topped 80 hours). Plus there are a variety of tests and studying residents have to do daily for their boards and inservice exams that med students really aren't privy to, but do cut into your "spare" time. It is a hard job even though I agree some complain about it too much.
I would argue that this is precisely the group to get advice from because they aren't going to sugar coat it.

A lot of us went back to med school at a financial loss. Some of us will never get back to the point we would have been if they stayed put. So what -- this decision isn't really about money.

A lot if nontrads went back to school after they already enjoyed their twenties, early thirties, etc. I would agree, you won't be doing a lot of non-medicine traveling or living during med school and residency so there's a distinct advantage to already having lived a bit first and now being ready to get serious.

I think there are good and bad reasons to pursue this career. Cost and time shouldn't be determinative if it's what you love, but if things like financial prosperity are driving this train get off now.
Agree wholeheartedly.
 
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I left a lucrative career to go to med school. I have enjoyed almost every day of the ride so far. I truly enjoy talking to people and helping them. I don't love working 26 hours in a row, but I don't resent it either. Medicine is a better fit for my personality than I could possibly have imagined.

When I started though, I re-evaluated every three months and was ready to jump ship if I wasn't enjoying myself.

And regarding the working hard thing, I definitely work harder as a resident than as a medical student, although I probably put in less effort and I get more satisfaction out of it. I am more efficient, better and accomplishing things, better at recognizing patterns and more confident.
 
Great responses by several SDN people. I concur. Do what you want to do, do what drives you, do what makes you passionate. Ignore the naysayers. Most physicians I contacted prior to applying to medical school (I've worked with thousands) told me NOT to do it. They are bitter, dour, depressed and frankly, need to retire. These are the physicians that gave us the mess we have today. These are the physicians who gave us HMOs (a 1980s anomaly), which gave us PPOs and now the real mess we have today: staggered 90+ days reimbursement schedule. It is pathetic. Those physicians who tell people like us NOT to go into medicine should be slapped down (figuratively). If they whine in front of me, I give it to them. "You are dour. You are part of the problem. Make room for people like me who want to be in medicine. Leave already". That shuts them up quickly

I told a specialist this recently, a former boss no less, when I recently shadowed him. He was sitting in his office talking to a young pre-med who was starry eyed to be in his presence, and he called me into his office to talk about the state of Medicine. i stopped him in 30 seconds. He stared at me as I told him, "remember, I am not 23 years old, like this young pre-med. Sweetheart, you are about to get quite an education by watching our interaction so take notes. Jim (fake name), I am older and I have no intentions of shutting up when people like you speak so dismally of medicine. I'll stand up to you and put you in check in a heart beat because I know better. You need to retire. Make it soon. I want your job. Stop complaining. You've made a go run at it. Perhaps it's time to make room for new blood"

and so forth.

Today I got my letter of reference from his secretary. It was glowing. He respects me and reads my blog regularly. You don't have to be an as*wipe to go into medicine. Know when to listen. If you are older and command respect, share a few thoughts with your audience. They might need to hear them. But make sure you have earned "the right to close"....going for the kill takes a skill, an earned opportunity b/c you have put in your time with your audience.

Dont let these buzzards keep you down. However, if you are going into medicine because of money, I would ask you to run for Congress instead. They make far more money and there are scores of people waiting for your admissions seat.

I am old(er) and I am thrilled with my past experiences. I wake every morning excited to be in medical school and look forward to my week, my year, my rotations and Residency....and Fellowship if it comes to that. Because medicine should be about a Journey.......not about arriving.

Salut!

http://roadlesstraveledmd.wordpress.com

:rolleyes:
 
I left a lucrative career to go to med school.

Ditto.

When I started though, I re-evaluated every three months and was ready to jump ship if I wasn't enjoying myself.

A very healthy exercise. Thanks for sharing that with us!

And regarding the working hard thing, I definitely work harder as a resident than as a medical student, although I probably put in less effort and I get more satisfaction out of it. I am more efficient, better and accomplishing things, better at recognizing patterns and more confident.

One of my mentor/physicians....a DO, by the way, had this to say to me before I applied to medical schools:

"You are going to get old no matter what you do, so you might as well pick something that you will enjoy along the way"

Touche.

I've already traveled the world, owned the cars, the houses, the toys, the bling, we've hosted the parties, raised the kids.....now that we've gotten all of those things out of the way, we are looking forward to my MD journey greatly, and probably have more fun doing it than the lucrative career I recently had.

Imagine working with the Missionaries of Charity in India, the Nuns that Mother Teresa of Calcutta organized, and impact so many needy people for a living! Awesome.
 
Regret? Maybe. If it were 8 or 9 years ago when I decided to go on this journey, would I go to med school knowing what I know now? Probably not, though hopefully this answer changes after residency is over with.

I left an almost 6-figure career with good hours and good advancement ptoential for medicine. I don't feel I'm helping people/making a difference with people as much as I hoped I would prior to med school. Perhaps I was naive. I sometimes feel like just another cog in a cold, empty machine, my time spent sitting in front of a computer filling out forms, not that unlike the business world I left. At times, I feel like my residency program isn't the kindest of places - not quite malignant, but they definitely could care less about doing little things to make residents happier. My old corporate work environment was definitely a more positive and progressive work environment. This can get me down.

Regrets are pointless to have. I'm definitely not miserable by any means and am generally happy with my current career. It's just hard to say it was most definitely worth it. Though had I not gone into medicine, who knows what complaints I'd have at present day. And I'd always wonder what could have been...At a minimum, my professional life has definitely become less monotonous than it was in the business world.

That being said, for a pre-med nontrad interested in medicine, I would still encourage them to persue medicine if they want it....really want it, that is . It's unlikely to be the worst mistake of anybody's life. Just don't expect too much and your expectations will be met.
 
All this talk of passion and dreams for a job, makes me wonder of the people who have such feelings have ever been boned properly. I mean by all means enjoy taking care of people. It's a warm vibe and a rewarding ASPECT of the trade, but....

Passion is for lovers, and makers of music and art. And for freedom fighters and revolutions.

Satisfaction, perhaps deeply, is for careers.

Whatever, just my take.

OP, it's a fine career, and I'm on the extreme end of it being financially foolish.

Was reading along, and then, bang! Lol:laugh:
 
Corporate America is a disease, filled with apathetic, lazy, backstabbing, incompetent butt kissers on every side.

Sorry to break it to you but so is medicine...especially if you go into wackademia. While I believe medicine is a noble profession that doesn't mean that all the ills of humanity are absent from medicine. In my experience they are there and in a more sinister form than anywhere else. People are people regardless of what they do for a living. I could just as easily use your quote and say the same thing for those in ministry. So don't go into this thinking you are entering the last bastion of enthusiastic, industrious, morally upright, competent, plain-spoken people because you're not.
 
Regret? Maybe. If it were 8 or 9 years ago when I decided to go on this journey, would I go to med school knowing what I know now? Probably not, though hopefully this answer changes after residency is over with.

I left an almost 6-figure career with good hours and good advancement ptoential for medicine. I don't feel I'm helping people/making a difference with people as much as I hoped I would prior to med school.

You're not being honest with your audience, many of whom don't know what the economy was like in 2008 when it crashed for most of us, never mind 8-9 years ago when you left it. Most of us left the corporate world and our 6 figure incomes in 2008 because it left us. It fell off a cliff. We had to jump before the crash or we went down with it into the bad fall. What you wrote about the 6 figure income sounds really dreamy. It no longer exist. Corporate jobs are a grind like medical school but with no appreciation, no reward, no say in the matter...kinda like medical school! But once you finish the medical training, it gets better. Corporate jobs do not. I miss my former salary and wonderful benefits, 401K, pension contributions, etc. I do not miss the corporate culture at all. I still have nightmares about my former boss, whom I heard was fired from his job....thankfully.

Perhaps I was naive. I sometimes feel like just another cog in a cold, empty machine, my time spent sitting in front of a computer filling out forms, not that unlike the business world I left. At times, I feel like my residency program isn't the kindest of places - not quite malignant, but they definitely could care less about doing little things to make residents happier.

Residency is not reality. It is not meant to be a career....hopefully you will be done soon and building your real career on the shoulders of your training, and a career better than your corporate career. That is my hope and I know it will happen because I will be in control of my destiny. Not so with a corporate job. You are going through a rough time in Residency and that is expected. Chin up. Chest out. Shoulders back. It gets better.

My old corporate work environment was definitely a more positive and progressive work environment. This can get me down..

That was almost a decade ago. Things have changed in corporate world. The only people happy in that setting are the high up executives who are generally ruthless, have a knife in their mouth and are bleeding themselves in the back from their colleagues sticking it to them.
The higher you go up in the corporate chain, the nastier it gets.

No thanks. I look forward to making my own career once I have earned my MD and completed my Training...which is to say, pay my dues. There is that aspect of medical education: we have to pay our dues because our superiors paid theirs and they are going to make sure we pay ours as well. I see it all the time.

It gets better, Yossarian. It gets better.
 
This reminds me of my friend in college in 1997. He said he was going to pursue medicine because when he visits his doctor, he sees him "for about 5 minutes and then the doctor makes like $100 for that time." Surely enough, he took a few pre-med req. classes and ended up dropping out within a week. People aren't going into medicine for money because it isn't financially worth it in the end. Some people go in wanting to work with other people, some want to save lives, some are enthused by the magic of medicine, while some are pushed into it by family. Ultimately those who do it for the wrong reasons leave or complain. Those who do it for the right reasons add fuel to the fire inside of them that was lit when they took their first glance at the profession. Like any line of daily practice (notice I will not say career, that is a corporate term indicating some type of financial profit first, everything else second), practitioners in most fields remain there and succeed because of their passion, personality, talents, interest, and ability.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shjanzey
Corporate America is a disease, filled with apathetic, lazy, backstabbing, incompetent butt kissers on every side.

Sorry to break it to you but so is medicine...especially if you go into wackademia. While I believe medicine is a noble profession that doesn't mean that all the ills of humanity are absent from medicine. In my experience they are there and in a more sinister form than anywhere else. People are people regardless of what they do for a living. I could just as easily use your quote and say the same thing for those in ministry. So don't go into this thinking you are entering the last bastion of enthusiastic, industrious, morally upright, competent, plain-spoken people because you're not.

This varies to a degree. I work at a high school and it is FAR FAR BETTER than the corporate world. My job is not perfect but it is in no way a cancer like you encounter every time you open the door to Deloitte and Touche or some other fancy sounding office of a "firm" (because that word sounds so cool and proper to say in a social gathering, it warranted a quote). I'd say my job is really great with some minor, and occasionally major, hiccups. Maybe it's because I am always surrounded by kids (teenagers who are a handful in and of themselves) who haven't yet figured out how to stab others in the back or be incompetent on purpose. Or maybe it's because there's no profit to gain. Public school is a non-profit so if you are there, you are there to help society, not worry about the bottom line or what paper you are publishing so you can look cool in front of colleagues. Ending with this, I will say that I am on the far lower end of the validity of that quote.
 
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Corporate america is def like cancer. It eats you everyday. I dread every day i have to go into the office. Today is one of those days, I called out sick today :'( Looking fwd...
 
Corporate america is def like cancer. It eats you everyday. I dread every day i have to go into the office. Today is one of those days, I called out sick today :'( Looking fwd...

You poor thing! I don't call in sick to medical school. I am too excited about it. First year is coming to a close, and not soon enough, and I am already looking forward to second year. Then Rotations. It is flying. I am having so much fun. My partner is about to start Nursing School WHILE I am in Medical School in the same city. We are giddy, upbeat, hopeful, have our eyes on the prize, and talking about having kids after my 2nd year - probably adoption or maybe IVF. Either way, I am excited about the opportunities that lay ahead of me as a future doctor. I couldn't care less about Obamacare, not making the killing physicians made 10 years ago, or the long hours.

I will make enough money. How much is enough? Primary Care doctors make about $150K (if you lump in Peds, Psychiatrists, with IMs). Think about that amount of money: $150K. That is alot of money, less than 10% of the USA population makes that. And these doctors are complaining.

Don't let them bring you down. Keep your eyes on the prize
 
You poor thing! I don't call in sick to medical school. I am too excited about it. First year is coming to a close, and not soon enough, and I am already looking forward to second year. Then Rotations. It is flying. I am having so much fun. My partner is about to start Nursing School WHILE I am in Medical School in the same city. We are giddy, upbeat, hopeful, have our eyes on the prize, and talking about having kids after my 2nd year - probably adoption or maybe IVF. Either way, I am excited about the opportunities that lay ahead of me as a future doctor. I couldn't care less about Obamacare, not making the killing physicians made 10 years ago, or the long hours.

I will make enough money. How much is enough? Primary Care doctors make about $150K (if you lump in Peds, Psychiatrists, with IMs). Think about that amount of money: $150K. That is alot of money, less than 10% of the USA population makes that. And these doctors are complaining.

Don't let them bring you down. Keep your eyes on the prize

Technically you are probably pulling in about $60k pure cash as a primary care physician. Why and how?

Malpractice insurance = roughly 40% of that income from what I have been told

Your own office (lease, paying employees, buying equipment or paying for repairs, security system, etc.) = I do not know the percentage

Your own home rent/mortgage, a car unless you take the train or bus but will you do that? = few thousand per month

Taxes = I do not know how this will factor in because it depends on your accountant

So, NO.

You are wrong.

You do not pull in $150k at all. I'd say you probably make between $60k cash annually or up to $100k cash if you are a miser. There is no money in primary care medicine. For the time and labor invested in studying and practicing (interning/residency), you will not come out ahead in PC. You take this field for the joy of it. With Obamacare coming in, PCP's will probably make less.

Right now, I make $66k a year. I do not pay for any malpractice insurance, I do not work insane hours (workday is about 4-5 actual hours of labor), I do not hire employees and I have no overhead at all (buying office equipment, leasing, etc.). I also have great medical benefits as well as a pension system that is more stable than private companies. Dollar for dollar and time invested, my work and life have given me more return in pure income compared to a PCP. If I am to pursue medicine, I am doing it for personal reasons, not for money. There are too many other fields for educated professionals who pull in a lot more dough than a PCP. A PCP must accept that the prize is not money but personal satisfaction.
 
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