Med School Selection Spreadsheet (DO Edition)

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apumic

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Hey fellow pre-DOers!

Some of you have likely seen the med school selection spreadsheet posted on the pre allo forum. I have been working to add DO schools to the spreadsheet as well and have had several requests for these schools to be integrated into the sheet. Unfortunately, I do not have the necessary admissions data. I have been able to find some of it online but I believe much of what I would need is in books to which I do not have access, so I am coming to all of you in hopes someone might have this data for 1 or more schools. Data needed include the following for each school: in state & out of state base acceptance rates & interview rates; median, 10th & 90th %ile (or 25/50/75 or some other set of 3 ) values for gpa (sgpa & cgp) & mcat (each subscale score and totals) of acceptees; and URM, clinical experiemce, research experience, & volunteer experience data per school. If anyone can provide any of this it would be a great help. I will post a copy of the spreadsheet in a couple of days to add to...

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Hey fellow pre-DOers!

Some of you have likely seen the med school selection spreadsheet posted on the pre allo forum. I have been working to add DO schools to the spreadsheet as well and have had several requests for these schools to be integrated into the sheet. Unfortunately, I do not have the necessary admissions data. I have been able to find some of it online but I believe much of what I would need is in books to which I do not have access, so I am coming to all of you in hopes someone might have this data for 1 or more schools. Data needed include the following for each school: in state & out of state base acceptance rates & interview rates; median, 10th & 90th %ile (or 25/50/75 or some other set of 3 ) values for gpa (sgpa & cgp) & mcat (each subscale score and totals) of acceptees; and URM, clinical experiemce, research experience, & volunteer experience data per school. If anyone can provide any of this it would be a great help. I will post a copy of the spreadsheet in a couple of days to add to...

Thanks for doing this!
 
You're welcome but don't thank me too much yet. We need help from the DO community to make this happen or it simply won't get done!
 
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I would help, as I want to see a spreadsheet of this, but I dont have the data.

Somebody please help out
 
I have completed v2.4 of the spreadsheet, which includes the DO schools. I have made the DO schools editable so that others may add in necessary data. If you have the time, please contribute to this project by adding some data into the spreadsheet and reposting here. You can upload the file via www.yousendit.com as it is too large for SDN. Here's the link:

v2.4 is available here (no longer in beta -- some simple user interface changes were implemented):

http://www.yousendit.com/download/YkxLQ3R3Mm1GR0h2Wmc9PQ
 
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This looks awesome, but I feel stupid because I have no clue how to use it . . . .=(
 
Change the tab on the bottom to "Main Sheet" and enter in your numbers =) If you have your MCAT scores already (and therefore don't need to estimate it), then go to the "EstMCAT" tab. Scroll to the bottom, find the boxes with x's, and take out the x's so that the scores entered on the main sheet can be used.
 
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This is the most confusing looking thing I have ever seen. The one for MD was so much simplier. Why are there so many white boxes. There should just be like a few white boxes (cGPA,sGPA,mcat) This thing needs to be removed and replaced with something less "geeky" JMO!
 
Just curious as to how they got their SAT to MCAT "conversion" ? They must have been using some stats, but exactly where did they get the stats and what is the conversion ratio.
 
This is the most confusing looking thing I have ever seen. The one for MD was so much simplier. Why are there so many white boxes. There should just be like a few white boxes (cGPA,sGPA,mcat) This thing needs to be removed and replaced with something less "geeky" JMO!


haha. It depends what you want out of it.
FYI, this IS the MD Spreadsheet. What has been added are a few features to give it more accurate output taking into account important factors such as your experiences and URM status.
On the front page, the "white boxes" are not entry boxes and the spreadsheet greys out input fields that are not active due to other settings. It allows entry in all purple boxes on the Main Sheet (front page). Unless you're referring to the other worksheets, I really don't see much complexity to it on the surface. Obviously, if you choose to use the other features you're going to find it far more complex, but those things are all turned off by default. Some of the other pages (namely, the NLM Score sheet) are certainly a bit more confusing but still pretty user-friendly, IMO.
The EstMCAT (MCAT Estimator) sheet is pretty self-explanatory. You enter your scores on previous placement exams and it calculates a predicted MCAT score (range, avg, upper & lower confidence limits), ignoring any fields you did not fill in. The most basic use here would be to enter your SAT and/or ACT scores and allow it to calculate an MCAT score for you. You could then place X's in the "Use predictions" boxes to have the main spreadsheet use the estimator's predictions if you so chose.
The GPA Calculator is an AMCAS calculator (will work for DO as well, though, just change which classes you mark as BCPM). It's pretty straightforward and is only enabled if you do not enter a GPA manually.
Finally, the NLMScore sheet isn't really for the enduser unless one is very curious about how the underlying scores are generated. This spreadsheet is sort of the "under the hood" part of the spreadsheet. The only user-modifiable fields are related to such things as acceptance rate data, sGPA vs. cGPA balance and how the weighting occurs between GPA, MCAT & NLM Score when estimating percent chances at an interview or acceptance. I left those modifiable for anyone who feels like playing around with the spreadsheet and/or has add'l/insider knowledge of how a specific school's adcom tends to operate.
While I understand you might find this to be a bit complex, I hope it is not intimidating to users. I have gone ahead and made some modifications to the front interface to make it a bit more userfriendly for you. Please let me know if this helps.
 
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Just curious as to how they got their SAT to MCAT "conversion" ? They must have been using some stats, but exactly where did they get the stats and what is the conversion ratio.



The MCAT-GRE/SAT/ACT/cGPA/sGPA correlation factors came from several studies. Unfortunately, I do not have the titles in front of me at the moment. The methods of calculation can be found in the EstMCAT spreadsheet. For instance, the SAT data is found starting at cell V27. The spreadsheet takes your SAT data from here and z-scores it according to the latest SAT percentile data using a 1600 max score (i.e., only using math & verbal subscores; if yours is on a 2400 test, you'll need to only enter the two of the three subscores that correspond to the data requested -- the verbal and math subscores -- and leave out the writing subscore as it is relatively irrelevant to the MCAT). From here, the subscales of the SAT score are divided out into their correlation with each individual MCAT subscale. The SAT scores are rescaled to the MCAT's percentile using a -0.25 Z-score adjustment to adjust for a generally stronger student population taking the MCAT than the SAT. This adjustment is used for all HS placement exams but is left out for GRE and GPA as those are specific to university students. The re-scaled z-scores are then converted to MCAT scores and each SAT subscale is weighted in in terms of its effect on the overall prediction by its r^2 (variance) value. This means that, for instance, the SAT Verbal would have more effect on the MCAT Verbal prediction than would the SAT Math, while the SAT Math has a stronger effect on the MCAT BS & PS Sections. This is how it works overall; however, it is worth noting that the SAT is a bit different in its calculations as studies were done primarily on the SAT Math and science sections and the Verbal of both SAT & MCAT and not crossing these (i.e., no testing was done on SAT Math with MCAT Verbal), so the SAT is not as good a predictor but along with the use of a person's GPA (which is actually the strongest predictor of MCAT Score, although it can be somewhat less reliable as every school is different), it seems to yield fairly respectable results.
As for the "conversion ratio" question. There isn't really one, although I suppose you could derive one by working out the standard deviations and means. I made the spreadsheet work directly with the data, though, so that if/when means/SDs change, we can quickly update the spreadsheet and not mess with manually recalculating ratios. Ultimately, though, with all the on-the-go weighting calculations, there really isn't one ratio being used. Instead, a variety of "ratios" are being dynamically calculated and then combined to find the most likely value.
 
Since it seems some are confused, I wanted to post some instructions.

These apply to v2.41, available at http://www.yousendit.com/download/YkxLQ3Q4R3NKV05jR0E9PQ (may change in the future, so check the Pre-Allo board for the official, latest link -- you can get a link to the official post on my signature below):


Instructions: Main Sheet

  • This should be the first sheet that pops up when you open the spreadsheet. It can be selected at the bottom of your screen and is labeled "Main Sheet."
  • Note: There is on-board help for all spreadsheets! This help can be accessed by placing your mouse over any cell with a small red triangle in its upper-right hand corner. The tip boxes that pop up give useful information about the various spreadsheet boxes where data may be input by an user as well as about any output given by the spreadsheet. Much of what is contained in this document can be found there as well.
Status Indicators:
  • Cell C2 -- indicates whether or not the MCAT Estimator is in use. If it is in use, manually entered MCAT Scores (see below) will be ignored (the boxes will be greyed out) and the MCAT Estimator's predictions will be used instead. If it is in use, you can disable from the MCAT Estimator spreadsheet as described below.
  • Cell D2 -- indicates whether or not the GPA Calculator is in use. The GPA Calculator will be disabled if you enter a GPA into the G4 and G5 cells (purple GPA cells)
  • Cells G2-I2 -- these cells tell you what MCAT subscores are being used. The cells will light up if the MCAT Estimator is overriding a subscore.
  • Cells I4 & I5 -- these cells tell you what cGPA & sGPA are being used respectively. They will light up red if using the GPA Calculator's values. The GPA Calculator may be overridden by simply entering a GPA manually into cells G4 and G5.
Entering GPA & MCAT Scores Manually as well as State of Residence
  • Cumulative GPA (cGPA) may be entered in cell G4. When nothing is in this blank, it will turn grey-blue to indicate it is not being used and/or that the GPA Calculator is in use. Entering any value above 1.0 into this blank will cause it to become active.
  • Science/BCPM GPA (sGPA) may be entered in cell G5. When nothing is in this blank, it will turn grey-blue to indicate it is not being used and/or that the GPA Calculator is in use. Entering any value above 1.0 into this blank will cause it to become active.
  • The GPAs that are active will be shown in cells I4 & I5
  • MCAT scores may be entered in cells G7-I7.
  • If the MCAT score blanks are greyed out, this means the MCAT Estimator is currently enabled and manually entered scores will not be used as the Estimator's predictions override these. See the MCAT Estimator instructions for more information on disabling this feature.
  • The state in which you currently hold residency should be entered into cell G8. Please use the proper two-letter abbreviation.
EC Experiences & URM Status
  • Below the GPA Calculator status bar, you are asked 4 questions about yourself.
  • Cell D5 -- Volunteer Experience -- if you have had this type of experience, mark an X; if not, leave it blank; volunteering includes at a hospital or other community service (e.g., soup kitchen, community activism, etc.)
  • Cell D6 -- Clinical Experience -- if you have had this type of experience, mark an X; if not, leave it blank; clinical experience could be described as working with patients closely enough that you can "smell them"; there should also be someone on-site who can prescribe and/or holds medical licensure of some sort
  • Cell D7 -- Research Experience -- if you have had this type of experience, mark an X; if not, leave it blank; research experience could be described as any kind of clinical or basic research lasting at least 6 months and usually leading to some sort of a presentation, publication, or letter of recommendation from the PI
  • Cell D8 -- Under-Represented Minority (URM) -- if you are a URM, mark an X; if not, leave it blank; URMs include such minorities as Hispanic, African American, and American Indian; Asians and, of course, whites need not apply (sorry!)
NLM Score
  • Cells D11 & R13 -- This is your NLM score, which will be compared with other schools' average NLMs to provide you with estimates of your chances at success at each institution. A graph is provided next to R13, which shows visually how your score compares with that of various schools. Note: DO schools are not included on the graph.
  • Cell D12--This is a component breakdown for the NLM Score. It is primarily for advanced users to figure out their weak points and/or get a better feel for how their score is being calculated if they so choose.
% Chance Interview & Acceptance
  • Columns K & L give approximate % chances that you will be accepted at each school. These are based on the school's base acceptance rate with a variety of modifications made for your GPA, MCAT, URM Status, and experiences listed above.
  • The % Chance columns are color-coded to make it easier to find your "best-chance" schools. Best chance ratings are in bright green; good are in blue; okay chances are in yellow; and the worst chances are in dark red.
Chances & School Data
  • Column M is a general overview of your chances at each school and is color-coded according to the legend in cells O5-O8.
  • Column N lists school names
  • Columns to the right of N listed statistics for each school. These may be helpful in choosing an institution and are used in many of the calculations throughout the spreadsheet to "chance" you.
Instructions: MCAT Estimator
  • This is the second worksheet you can select at the bottom of the spreadsheet and is labeled EstMCAT.
  • Please read the instructions at the top of this worksheet first.
  • You may enter data for 1 or more of the exams listed in the worksheet
ACT Score
  • Enter your English, Math, Social Science, and Natural Science scores. Note: All scores must be entered for the ACT scores to be used at all. Only entering English and Math scores and leaving out Soc. Science & Natural Science, for instance, will result in an incorrect prediction.
  • ACT MCAT predictions will appear in cells G11-G13 and the total will appear in J12
GPA Score
  • This score is automatically entered by the spreadsheet based upon what is entered in the Main Spreadsheet. GPA has the closest correlation with MCAT scores of any predictor available; however, as it is not standardized across schools, it is not considered as reliable as other exam scores.
  • Predicted scores will appear to the right of where the GPA values are shown
SAT Score
  • Enter your Verbal/Critical Thinking & Math subscale scores (no others such as writing, if taken, should be listed). Note: Either both or neither SAT subscore must be entered. Entering only 1 of the two will result in invalid predictions.
  • Predicted MCAT scores will be displayed to the right of your entered values.
GRE Score
  • Enter your Verbal & Quant subscale scores. Note: Either both or neither GRE subscore must be entered. Entering only 1 of the two will result in invalid predictions.
  • Predicted MCAT scores will be displayed to the right of your entered values.
MCAT Predictions (Overall)
  • A weighted average is computed using the scores entered above. MCAT subscale scores are then calculated and can be used for school selection.
  • MCAT predictions are listed in Row 32.
  • Row 35 allows you to change the level of confidence you want to have in the range of scores listed in Rows 38 & 39.
  • Row 41 is where you tell the Main Spreadsheet to use the MCAT Estimator's predictions. Each subscale may be individually marked by placing an X in the purple box. To disable this feature, simply remove the X from each subscale's box. If the box is purple, it means the box is empty and, therefore, that the feature is turned off.
GPA Calculator
  • The 3rd spreadsheet available, labeled "GPA"\
  • For each "year" you may enter courses into Row A
  • The grade for each course goes in Row B
  • The number of units goes in Row D
  • If the course counts for sGPA (Science for DO or BCPM for AMCAS), mark Row G
  • If the course was taken in the Quarter System, mark Row H
  • GPA trend graphs can be found starting in Row 239
  • The GPA Calculator's results will automatically be used in the main spreadsheet unless you enter a GPA manually into that spreadsheet
NLM Score
  • This spreadsheet is primarily for advanced users. It is essentially the "under the hood" spreadsheet that calculates the scores. There are few user-modifiable fields here.
  • C4-C13 & C18-26 contain acceptance data for certain GPA & MCAT ranges
  • C32 is what percent weight to place on the sGPA compared with the cGPA (50 is half sGPA, half cGPA)
  • Columns GW-GY specify how to weight the GPA, MCAT & NLM Scores when looking at % Chance
 
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Since it seems some are confused, I wanted to post some instructions.

These apply to v2.4, available at http://www.yousendit.com/download/YkxLQ3R3Mm1GR0h2Wmc9PQ (may change in the future, so check the Pre-Allo board for the official, latest link -- you can get a link to the official post on my signature below):


Instructions: Main Sheet

  • This should be the first sheet that pops up when you open the spreadsheet. It can be selected at the bottom of your screen and is labeled "Main Sheet."
Status Indicators:
  • Cell C2 -- indicates whether or not the MCAT Estimator is in use. If it is in use, manually entered MCAT Scores (see below) will be ignored (the boxes will be greyed out) and the MCAT Estimator's predictions will be used instead. If it is in use, you can disable from the MCAT Estimator spreadsheet as described below.
  • Cell D2 -- indicates whether or not the GPA Calculator is in use. The GPA Calculator will be disabled if you enter a GPA into the G4 and G5 cells (purple GPA cells)
  • Cells G2-I2 -- these cells tell you what MCAT subscores are being used. The cells will light up if the MCAT Estimator is overriding a subscore.
  • Cells I4 & I5 -- these cells tell you what cGPA & sGPA are being used respectively. They will light up red if using the GPA Calculator's values. The GPA Calculator may be overridden by simply entering a GPA manually into cells G4 and G5.
Entering GPA & MCAT Scores Manually as well as State of Residence
  • Cumulative GPA (cGPA) may be entered in cell G4. When nothing is in this blank, it will turn grey-blue to indicate it is not being used and/or that the GPA Calculator is in use. Entering any value above 1.0 into this blank will cause it to become active.
  • Science/BCPM GPA (sGPA) may be entered in cell G5. When nothing is in this blank, it will turn grey-blue to indicate it is not being used and/or that the GPA Calculator is in use. Entering any value above 1.0 into this blank will cause it to become active.
  • The GPAs that are active will be shown in cells I4 & I5
  • MCAT scores may be entered in cells G7-I7.
  • If the MCAT score blanks are greyed out, this means the MCAT Estimator is currently enabled and manually entered scores will not be used as the Estimator's predictions override these. See the MCAT Estimator instructions for more information on disabling this feature.
  • The state in which you currently hold residency should be entered into cell G8. Please use the proper two-letter abbreviation.
EC Experiences & URM Status
  • Below the GPA Calculator status bar, you are asked 4 questions about yourself.
  • Cell D5 -- Volunteer Experience -- if you have had this type of experience, mark an X; if not, leave it blank; volunteering includes at a hospital or other community service (e.g., soup kitchen, community activism, etc.)
  • Cell D6 -- Clinical Experience -- if you have had this type of experience, mark an X; if not, leave it blank; clinical experience could be described as working with patients closely enough that you can "smell them"; there should also be someone on-site who can prescribe and/or holds medical licensure of some sort
  • Cell D7 -- Research Experience -- if you have had this type of experience, mark an X; if not, leave it blank; research experience could be described as any kind of clinical or basic research lasting at least 6 months and usually leading to some sort of a presentation, publication or letter of recommendation from the PI
  • Cell D8 -- Under-Represented Minority (URM) -- if you are a URM, mark an X; if not, leave it blank; URMs include such minorities as Hispanic, African American, and American Indian; Asians and, of course, whites need not apply (sorry!)


Thank you for the instructions! The problem was that the main sheet was not the first to show up (well at least, not for me). When I first opened the spreadsheet, the NLMScore sheet was in front.
 
I think in my haste to get the Beta out I may have saved it w the NLM Score worksheet opened last so it would have opened to that. Obviously that sheet is fairly confusing as it's where most of the underlying calculations occur. The currently uploaded verson (v2.41) will open to the main sheet page & includes fairly extenive tip popups using the excel comment system (place your cursor over cells w/ red triangles in them for hints about many of the cells).
 
Wow...it looks like A LOT of work was put into this.

Thanks!
 
I was trying to put my courses and stuff on here but it only has calculations for amcas. Can I also use this for d.o.? Or is there a newer version that we're waiting for.

For those who made this. mad props!! looks like aheckofalot of work!
 
the amcas calculator will work for DO. You simply need to change which courses you mark for sGPA to the DO standards. Otherwise, the two are identical.
 
Hey,

Wanted to let you know v2.42 has been released.
It disables the self-check routine that was causing the MCAT Estimator and % Chance features to not function on some computers. This version also adds difficulty modifiers to some schools' % Chance ratings in order to increase the accuracy of % Chance for Acceptance predictions, but this may be of less value to all of you as the % Chance ratings are not yet available DO schools as not all of the needed data has been obtained. The help of anyone who has more information on DO schools' matriculants and applicants (i.e., # applicants, # interviewed, # accepted/matriculated, %URM, % w/ clinical/research/volunteer experience, 10th & 90th percentiles for sGPA, cGPA and each MCAT subscale) would be much appreciated.

The new version can be downloaded here: http://www.yousendit.com/download/YkxJb24xUnJ6NE0wTVE9PQ (check the link in my signature below to get to the post where the link is updated each week as this link will expire in 1 week)
 
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The MCAT-GRE/SAT/ACT/cGPA/sGPA correlation factors came from several studies. Unfortunately, I do not have the titles in front of me at the moment. The methods of calculation can be found in the EstMCAT spreadsheet. For instance, the SAT data is found starting at cell V27. The spreadsheet takes your SAT data from here and z-scores it according to the latest SAT percentile data using a 1600 max score (i.e., only using math & verbal subscores; if yours is on a 2400 test, you'll need to only enter the two of the three subscores that correspond to the data requested -- the verbal and math subscores -- and leave out the writing subscore as it is relatively irrelevant to the MCAT). From here, the subscales of the SAT score are divided out into their correlation with each individual MCAT subscale. The SAT scores are rescaled to the MCAT's percentile using a -0.25 Z-score adjustment to adjust for a generally stronger student population taking the MCAT than the SAT. This adjustment is used for all HS placement exams but is left out for GRE and GPA as those are specific to university students. The re-scaled z-scores are then converted to MCAT scores and each SAT subscale is weighted in in terms of its effect on the overall prediction by its r^2 (variance) value. This means that, for instance, the SAT Verbal would have more effect on the MCAT Verbal prediction than would the SAT Math, while the SAT Math has a stronger effect on the MCAT BS & PS Sections. This is how it works overall; however, it is worth noting that the SAT is a bit different in its calculations as studies were done primarily on the SAT Math and science sections and the Verbal of both SAT & MCAT and not crossing these (i.e., no testing was done on SAT Math with MCAT Verbal), so the SAT is not as good a predictor but along with the use of a person's GPA (which is actually the strongest predictor of MCAT Score, although it can be somewhat less reliable as every school is different), it seems to yield fairly respectable results.
As for the "conversion ratio" question. There isn't really one, although I suppose you could derive one by working out the standard deviations and means. I made the spreadsheet work directly with the data, though, so that if/when means/SDs change, we can quickly update the spreadsheet and not mess with manually recalculating ratios. Ultimately, though, with all the on-the-go weighting calculations, there really isn't one ratio being used. Instead, a variety of "ratios" are being dynamically calculated and then combined to find the most likely value.

Interesting...

But why does it use the latest SAT percentile data? What does that have to do with my SAT score when I took the test?

I don't know much about how much the SAT percentiles fluctuate, but perhaps they might fluctuate by a significant amount (and if it does, it would be either because 1. the test has gotten easier or 2. the SAT test taker population has gotten smarter. This would be a debate all in itself, but here it doesn't matter, as you will see.). So for instance, a 600 verbal five years ago was in the 79th percentile, whereas today it might be the 72nd percentile (i just made this number up). So if i enter a 600 verbal into this spreadsheet, the system (according to the bolded statement in your post) would wrongly look at my score and take it as a 72nd percentile score.

When I take the MCAT now, I will be taking it "against" the student population who took the SAT around 5 years ago, not the latest SAT test taker population. So it really doesn't matter what the latest SAT percentile data is looking like.


My recommendation to remedy this is to just have the spreadsheet user enter in their percentile score instead of their converted score. So, I just would enter in 79% verbal instead of 600 verbal.


Of course, if the SAT percentile - raw score conversion hasn't fluctuate by much in the past five years, everything I said doesn't mean a thing.
 
Hmm...Looking at the above post I am obviously toying with the SAT to MCAT estimator.

I got a 600 verbal on my SAT. So I put that into the box and it predicted a 7 on the MCAT VR section. This looked somewhat low to me, so I messed around with my SAT verbal score...

A 700 SAT verbal = predicted 9 on the MCAT VR
a 800 SAT verbal = predicted 10 on the MCAT VR

An 800 is the highest you could get on the SAT verbal !! A 700 is a great score !! How are you only predicted to get a 10 on the MCAT verbal if you got a perfect SAT verbal score?


Now, if you scroll over to the right (the red) section...everything is fine and a 700 predicts a 12.5, and a 800 predicts a 14.8. But, for some reason, these scores are being changed once you look over the left (the blue) section.
 
Hmm...Looking at the above post I am obviously toying with the SAT to MCAT estimator.

I got a 600 verbal on my SAT. So I put that into the box and it predicted a 7 on the MCAT VR section. This looked somewhat low to me, so I messed around with my SAT verbal score...

A 700 SAT verbal = predicted 9 on the MCAT VR
a 800 SAT verbal = predicted 10 on the MCAT VR

An 800 is the highest you could get on the SAT verbal !! A 700 is a great score !! How are you only predicted to get a 10 on the MCAT verbal if you got a perfect SAT verbal score?


Now, if you scroll over to the right (the red) section...everything is fine and a 700 predicts a 12.5, and a 800 predicts a 14.8. But, for some reason, these scores are being changed once you look over the left (the blue) section.

hmm, I can't reproduce the problem. I tried entering my own verbal (740) in and it gave me a 13 VR. This is close to my GRE estimate of 12, which makes sense considering how similar the GRE and SAT are.
In my test at this moment, an 800verbal (SAT)=15VR (MCAT) and 600verbal --> 10VR. As far as I can tell, this seems pretty accurate. It appears the 15VR estimation begins at ~790verbal.
Unfortunately, though, if I cannot reproduce your problem, I have no way of helping you troubleshoot it. Perhaps you should update your copy of the spreadsheet although I have not made any changes to the MCAT Estimator recently. (Perhaps your version somehow got corrupted or your Excel version is doing something weird?)

Interesting...

But why does it use the latest SAT percentile data? What does that have to do with my SAT score when I took the test?

I don't know much about how much the SAT percentiles fluctuate, but perhaps they might fluctuate by a significant amount (and if it does, it would be either because 1. the test has gotten easier or 2. the SAT test taker population has gotten smarter. This would be a debate all in itself, but here it doesn't matter, as you will see.). So for instance, a 600 verbal five years ago was in the 79th percentile, whereas today it might be the 72nd percentile (i just made this number up). So if i enter a 600 verbal into this spreadsheet, the system (according to the bolded statement in your post) would wrongly look at my score and take it as a 72nd percentile score.

When I take the MCAT now, I will be taking it "against" the student population who took the SAT around 5 years ago, not the latest SAT test taker population. So it really doesn't matter what the latest SAT percentile data is looking like.


My recommendation to remedy this is to just have the spreadsheet user enter in their percentile score instead of their converted score. So, I just would enter in 79% verbal instead of 600 verbal.


Of course, if the SAT percentile - raw score conversion hasn't fluctuate by much in the past five years, everything I said doesn't mean a thing.

I certainly understand the concern. The truth is that when I looked at these data, they were pretty consistent for all years and for all tests. If we were talking about a 20-30 year difference, then, yes, you're going to see a general rise in scores over that period but I wouldn't expect to see much of a difference over 5 years. In addition, because the whole spreadsheet is all about rough estimation (albeit, using scientific and statistically sound models, or so I'd like to believe! lol) those differences really don't make a whole lot of a difference (even if it were 72% vs. 79%, this change will have a pretty small effect on the spreadsheet as a whole as the Z-score would only change by ~0.2, resulting about a 0.5 point change on the MCAT score itself. While this might cause the number to flip up or down by 1 through rounding, it's really not much in the way of error compared with all the other factors involved that we can't account for (i.e., differences between testing environments, differences in how you feel, unknown differences between forms of each test, etc.). The idea of using multiple factors in the calculation (i.e., GPA, SAT, ACT, and, if you have it, GRE) is to help cancel some of that "noise."
 
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I certainly understand the concern. The truth is that when I looked at these data, they were pretty consistent for all years and for all tests. If we were talking about a 20-30 year difference, then, yes, you're going to see a general rise in scores over that period but I wouldn't expect to see much of a difference over 5 years. In addition, because the whole spreadsheet is all about rough estimation (albeit, using scientific and statistically sound models, or so I'd like to believe! lol) those differences really don't make a whole lot of a difference (even if it were 72% vs. 79%, this change will have a pretty small effect on the spreadsheet as a whole as the Z-score would only change by ~0.2, resulting about a 0.5 point change on the MCAT score itself. While this might cause the number to flip up or down by 1 through rounding, it's really not much in the way of error compared with all the other factors involved that we can't account for (i.e., differences between testing environments, differences in how you feel, unknown differences between forms of each test, etc.). The idea of using multiple factors in the calculation (i.e., GPA, SAT, ACT, and, if you have it, GRE) is to help cancel some of that "noise."

Good explanation. I see you are great with statistics. I also was curious as to the SAT vs MCAT issue, so i searched it, and after about 10 minutes I found this page:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/747292-sats-mcat-3.html

And then I saw you (or somebody else who likes to call himself Apumic ) posting there as well !! What a small world. Anyway, is that Montague paper study the one you used for your SAT vs MCAT data? If so, can I get a link to it? I searched it in google and my college's library database through pubmed and it says my colleges physical library has the journal issue in print from from which it came from...but im at home, 2 hours away from my colleges campus. (I am curious to SAT to MCAT predictability, because I have already took all the AAMC practice tests. Now, I am debating a retake on a 32 score...because my GPA is so low. So i really need to know that I have a chance to get a better score. I am also just a curious person in general.)


And as to the issue I had where I was putting in numbers for the SAT verbal....It seems to be fixed now, as I made sure to have everything else blank before toying with the SAT verbal score. So now everything is good and a 600 verbal = 10 VR, a 700 verbal = 12.5 VR even on the left side of the screen as well was the right side. :thumbup:
 
"The download limit has been reached for this file. Please contact the sender and ask them to resend the file."

www.depositfiles.com ?

If you go to the link in my signature, that link will take you to the main thread for the spreadsheet and to the specific post where all the updates are. It's much easier if I simply keep the actual update post in one place so check it out there.
 
Good explanation. I see you are great with statistics. I also was curious as to the SAT vs MCAT issue, so i searched it, and after about 10 minutes I found this page:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/747292-sats-mcat-3.html

And then I saw you (or somebody else who likes to call himself Apumic ) posting there as well !! What a small world. Anyway, is that Montague paper study the one you used for your SAT vs MCAT data? If so, can I get a link to it? I searched it in google and my college's library database through pubmed and it says my colleges physical library has the journal issue in print from from which it came from...but im at home, 2 hours away from my colleges campus. (I am curious to SAT to MCAT predictability, because I have already took all the AAMC practice tests. Now, I am debating a retake on a 32 score...because my GPA is so low. So i really need to know that I have a chance to get a better score. I am also just a curious person in general.)


And as to the issue I had where I was putting in numbers for the SAT verbal....It seems to be fixed now, as I made sure to have everything else blank before toying with the SAT verbal score. So now everything is good and a 600 verbal = 10 VR, a 700 verbal = 12.5 VR even on the left side of the screen as well was the right side. :thumbup:

thanks for the compliment there. I was a psych in undergrad and did a fair amount of research so, at minimum, I learned to BS my way through stats, and yeah, that'd be me there. lol. that was probably one of the papers I used, yes. I basically went on a few database engines and ordered every paper I could find so they all get sent to my email address. I don't know if I still have them but I'll look. In the mean time, you can actually find the correlation data in the spreadsheet itself on the EstMCAT sheet. It's in columns Z, AE, and AJ. It may not be in article form, but the r values there are what was listed in the article. I believe all had P<0.05 and many were at P<0.01 or better. The variance value is simply r^2 and basically represents the theoretical percent of value B that can be attributed to value A in A+[some set of unknown factors]-->B. The computer actually uses that data automatically to generate a reliability coefficient, which is where we get the estimated confidence ranges at the bottom of the EstMCAT page (the blue part). The idea was to help answer all those statistical questions for you w/o your having to dig through the chart or look up the data in a bunch of articles.
 
If you go to the link in my signature, that link will take you to the main thread for the spreadsheet and to the specific post where all the updates are. It's much easier if I simply keep the actual update post in one place so check it out there.

Seeing as though your sig is only posted once in this thread, we would have never figured that on our own... thanks though :thumbup:
 
Seeing as though your sig is only posted once in this thread, we would have never figured that on our own... thanks though :thumbup:

Yeah, you're right. Not sure why that is since it's been set to show my sig for awhile...


Edit 1: Here it is again:

Med School Selection Spreadsheet w/ MCAT Estimator prediction tool, GPA Calculator, interview/acceptance "chances" and NLM (MCAT+GPA) score calculator: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...&postcount=215

Edit 2: Weird, now it showed up! lol
 
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Yeah, you're right. Not sure why that is since it's been set to show my sig for awhile...

I think it's like that for everyone, I only see my sig once too. I guess they want to cut down on the spam?
 
this is pretty awesome. everytime i see this, there is a new reworked version.

thanks for all the hard work you put in!!!!! :D


ok - so my question is, is there anyone who's already getting interviews or acceptances from schools they applied to that the spread might have predicted the same for?

i remember seeing on the allopathic spread thread that some ppl were commenting how close it was to the list of schools they personally applied to, although some claimed they got into the schools that were "long shots" for them.



any thoughts? anything?

it is much appreciated!
 
this is pretty awesome. everytime i see this, there is a new reworked version.

thanks for all the hard work you put in!!!!! :D


ok - so my question is, is there anyone who's already getting interviews or acceptances from schools they applied to that the spread might have predicted the same for?

i remember seeing on the allopathic spread thread that some ppl were commenting how close it was to the list of schools they personally applied to, although some claimed they got into the schools that were "long shots" for them.



any thoughts? anything?

it is much appreciated!

It'd definitely be interesting to know this, although I'd be more interested in the MCAT predictions, to be honest, as they are a bit more quantifiable. The ultimate acceptance numbers are really just shots in the dark b/c the factors are so innumerable.

Btw, just got a new version uploaded. v2.55 includes a visual graph representation of the MCAT Estimator's results that includes recently taken MCAT practice tests (or the real thing if you're considering a retake) as well as the ability to change how various schools "look" at your application..or at least how this computer simulation looks at your app (if only it could change how they looked at your app overall...)

The main post is at http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...&postcount=215
 
I think it's like that for everyone, I only see my sig once too. I guess they want to cut down on the spam?

Yes, everyone's sig only displays once per page. However, if you use the quick reply function, it appears to show up for that post, but it's merely an illusion. It'll still only display once per page.

That rule has been in place for a year or two now, in order to not bog down the pages with multiple large sigs and pictures in sigs, etc.
 
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