Med students matching: What do you wish you would have known/done in med school?

[Chakrabs]

The previous match attempt will only be obvious if you apply to the same program(s) the second time, and then, only they will know.

BUT...you will be asked (and must tell the truth about) why you had a gap year. And you'd best have a good reason for why you didn't match, and what you did to better yourself in the interim.

If you're trying to hide something, you will fail. While the Match itself is biased toward the applicant, the overall process is biased toward the programs. You will have to explain anything and everything in your application that deviates from "the norm."

I believe there is a box you have to check on ERAS that states you have participated in the match before.

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[2012mdc]

I'm just sitting here having matched into neurosurgery with a 222 on Step 1 grinning like an idiot... With an average Step 1 score of 239, neurosurgery is obviously a competitive field, but I had a very strong and well rounded application. I sent out 70 applications, got 27 invites, and went on 16 interviews. I received a lot of good feedback. One of the unfilled programs is on my list, so I know that I matched in my top-9.

I am, of course, very much the exception, not the rule when it comes to these things.

Neurosurg is also a very small field so the dynamics of matching into it are a bit different.

Congrats though, that is a major accomplishment

 

[Chakrabs]

Neurosurg is also a very small field so the dynamics of matching into it are a bit different.

Congrats though, that is a major accomplishment

Thanks. But thats partially what I (and others above) are trying to say. The circumstances differ for everyone and you do have to consider how competitive your application is compared to the average. I benefited from having done neurosurgical research and a variety of neurosurgical activities since I was a freshman in college. I had some connections and was able to get very detailed and strongly supportive letters of recommendation.

Had I just been any other med student who decided on neurosurgery around 1st or second year with the grades that I had and my med school (no-name state school with no home neurosurg program) I'd be out of my mind to apply to neurosurgery without a backup specialty.

 

[FML]

While the Match itself is biased toward the applicant, the overall process is biased toward the programs.

Would you mind expanding on this statement a bit more?

 

[FML]

I'm just sitting here having matched into neurosurgery with a 222 on Step 1 grinning like an idiot... With an average Step 1 score of 239, neurosurgery is obviously a competitive field, but I had a very strong and well rounded application. I sent out 70 applications, got 27 invites, and went on 16 interviews. I received a lot of good feedback. One of the unfilled programs is on my list, so I know that I matched in my top-9.

I am, of course, very much the exception, not the rule when it comes to these things.

whoa, congrats! I'm only a MS2 but from what I know about the neurosurgery match (it's what I want to go into so I've been researching), that is some feat to pull off! I need to get me some connections

 

[turkeyjerky]

Would you mind expanding on this statement a bit more?

The match algorithm itself is slightly biased towards applicants in that they will match at their highest choice vs the programs matching their highest ranked applicants. However, in the overall process, programs hold all the power. You need them more than they need you, and they have access to any and all information about you they want, whereas you are only provided with whatever info the program chooses to divulge.

 

[gutonc]

Would you mind expanding on this statement a bit more?

I simply mean that while the Match algorithm itself favors the applicants choices over those of the program, the application/interview process is much more transparent from the program side than the applicant side. Programs can find out a lot more about you (through ERAS, through your PS and letters, by calling your Dean, etc) than you can learn about them. It's not generally malicious, it's just the way it is.

Also, you need the programs more than the programs need you. You, as a single applicant, are limited in the # of places you can interview simply by logistics, while programs are limited only by money in the # of applicants they can interview. Practically speaking, you can interview at 25-30 programs at the most (and that's insane, a more realistic # is 10-20). A program that needs 30-40 residents (like many University IM programs) will interview somewhere in the range of 300-600 applicants. If that program has an open spot or two at the end of the day, it sucks but not the end of the world (they can SOAP it or even just leave it unfilled). If you don't Match OTOH, you're pretty hosed.

 

[gman33]

From what I've seen this year, I'd say to make sure you apply to the field you really want no matter what your grades, etc look like.

I have a lot of friends who on paper you'd think they had a poor shot at matching in their given field. They all got what they wanted.

I'm not saying to apply to Derm with no backup even though you failed Step 1.
I am saying that if that's what you really want you should still apply.
You never know what can happen.

Just apply to something else as well if your application isn't very strong.

 

[ppfizenm]

So we can list college research experience/presentations/awards?

 

[Chakrabs]

So we can list college research experience/presentations/awards?

Yes, but it really doesnt look good if too much of your application touches on what you did in college. I'd only list publications/presentations and anything you may have mentioned your personal statement.

 

[ppfizenm]

Yes, but it really doesnt look good if too much of your application touches on what you did in college. I'd only list publications/presentations and anything you may have mentioned your personal statement.

I am definitely planning on getting more research experience in med school. It's nice to know that I can include some of the more involved research from undergrad though.

 

[45408]

Not to be contradictory to you but if you score a 220 realistically you probably wont match ortho, but realistically you won't know until you try and you really don't lose much (app fees? heartache?) for trying. If it was me then I would try to match ortho and have a backup specialty planned and apply to both. As I understand it you really wont get hurt much by doing this. I just don't understand the whole don't apply if you are not looking at a great score.

I was going to type out an explanation for what you have to lose, but then I saw this:

That sounds like a good idea, but it's not as easy as you think; the logistics are hard to pull off. First of all, residencies interview at about the same time, so you'll probably have to make tough choices regarding which interviews to attend. You also probably don't want to interview at more than one program at the same institution because if they find out, they might throw your app out. That being said, people do dual-apply, like medicine and dermatology, or to ortho/gen surg, etc but rarely apply medicine/surgery etc. The problem is that your application will be weaker than if you applied to just one specialty. For example, if you applied ortho/gen surg with 220, you're below average for both, with almost no chance of matching ortho but a reasonable chance of matching gen surg (average is 227), however, if you prioritize ortho interviews to give yourself the best chance of success there, you'll do it at the expense of gen surg interviews. Your best option would have been to apply gen surg and apply to like 80 programs and interview at like 30 which would make your chance of matching close to 100%, whereas if you applied to fewer of both, your chances of matching into anything would be lower.



Well obviously. I wasn't talking about people who were applying plastics with 190 or whatever, I'm talking about people applying ortho or ENT with 220, or gen surg with 205.

Obviously if you have like a 190 on step 1, it'll be an upward struggle for any specialty, but you should still put yourself in the best position for success; apply to lots of FM/IM/OB/Psych programs; it'll prolly cost you a couple thousand dollars on your ERAS but go to as many interviews as possible regardless of specalty and find yoruself a spot.

The biggest take home message here IMO is to be realistic and put yourself in the best position for success. People talk about "nothing risked, nothing gained" etc but this isn't the best attitude for the match. Banking on a 30% match rate with your stats is a good way to go unmatched; yes you have a chance to match, but it's miniscule, and you're better off maximizing your odds, even if it isn't exactly what you wanted to go into than risk getting something that's the opposite of what you want like prelim surgery or rural FM when you wanted to do ortho.

And I agree with basically everything you're saying here.

 

[gutonc]

From what I've seen this year, I'd say to make sure you apply to the field you really want no matter what your grades, etc look like.

I have a lot of friends who on paper you'd think they had a poor shot at matching in their given field. They all got what they wanted.

I'm not saying to apply to Derm with no backup even though you failed Step 1.
I am saying that if that's what you really want you should still apply.
You never know what can happen.

Just apply to something else as well if your application isn't very strong.

Here's the bottom line. There are no guarantees in this game. Period.

250s on the steps and AOA puts you in a good spot to match Ortho/Derm/RadOnc, no doubt. Does it guarantee you a spot? Hell no.

210s on the steps and a mid-range class rank do not make getting an Ortho/Derm/RadOnc spot likely. Does it completely rule it out? Hell no.

There are too many other variables to consider to be able to reduce it to just one or two things, or to guarantee a spot (or lack thereof) for anybody.

Whatever you decide to go into, FM, Psych, Path, Neurosurg, Plastics, Derm...doesn't matter...you need some sort of contingency plan. Whether that's a bunch of less competitive programs in your specialty (if you doing something like FM or Psych) or a less competitive specialty (if you're going for Derm/Ortho/Whatever), or a plan to do a prelim year or research and re-apply, you need a backup plan.

 

[45408]

agreed.

however, I do think it is OK to at least try once. If a person with 220 who had some research, good grades, good step 2, etc really really wanted ortho I think it is OK to try. But if that person doesn't get it he/she should suck it up and pick something they are more competitive for the next go around so as not to waste any more of his/her life.

a good buddy of mine with really good scores who interviewed at 10+ GENERAL surgery programs and ranked them all went UNMATCHED. No red flags. He didn't have research but still needless to say I was very surprised. This person now is still waiting on the SOAP to work itself out. Point is that the match is extremely difficult and unpredictable. You can try and try all you want but nothing is a guarantee. Step 1 is very important. In fact everything is very important.

Don't give up on your dreams but there comes a time when you have to be realistic about your chances and you then have to decide if your dream is worth the risk. To some it is. But don't listen to ANYONE (and that means deans too) who say you'll be fine. That is absolutely false even if your numbers seem OK. It is 10000% false if your numbers are not that great and especially if you don't have significant ECs.

You've got "general" in all caps, as if it's surprising that he wouldn't match into general surgery. Keep in mind that only 85% of US seniors applying for general surgery will get into it. The average Step 1 score is in the mid/high 220s usually, but it's not a "shoo-in" match for a US senior.

 

[officedepot]

.

 

[Slack3r]

my point is that people often think general surgery is a backup and not hard to get. I on the other hand wanted to show that the field is becoming more and more competitive and just because your stats are average or maybe even above is no guarantee you'll get a spot. Now I don't think the same can be said for fields like IM or peds but gen surg is pretty popular nowadays.

I wonder why?

 

[Civil8]

I wonder why?

Work hour restrictions.

 

[JackShephard MD]

I wonder why?

I've heard from current GS residents that the lifestyle (work hr gap) b/t surgery and other specialties is diminishing. At our hospital, it's not uncommon for GS residents to have similar hours to medicine. They said they stick pretty close to the 80 hr week and many of the IM residents are pushing 70+ hrs a week. While 10 years ago GS could push 100+ regularly.

A few of the reasons I've found GS to be appealing is the pathology is more interesting than some other surgical specialties and there are a variety of paths after residency: Thoracic, endocrine, surgical critical care, surgical oncology, colorectal, trauma, pediatric, plastics, trauma, etc.

 

[FIREitUP]

I've heard from current GS residents that the lifestyle (work hr gap) b/t surgery and other specialties is diminishing. At our hospital, it's not uncommon for GS residents to have similar hours to medicine. They said they stick pretty close to the 80 hr week and many of the IM residents are pushing 70+ hrs a week. While 10 years ago GS could push 100+ regularly.

A few of the reasons I've found GS to be appealing is the pathology is more interesting than some other surgical specialties and there are a variety of paths after residency: Thoracic, endocrine, surgical critical care, surgical oncology, colorectal, trauma, pediatric, plastics, trauma, etc.

i don't think that the intensity of the 80 hours worked between medicine and surgery is equivalent. I would think that surgery is more physically taxing

 

[drizzt3117]

Uh, gen surg is still hard.

 

[gutonc]

Uh, gen surg is still hard.

True...but 80h of Gen Surg sucks a whole lot less than 120h does.

 

[JackShephard MD]

i don't think that the intensity of the 80 hours worked between medicine and surgery is equivalent. I would think that surgery is more physically taxing

Uh, gen surg is still hard.

Let's be fair, I just repeated what some PGY-3/4's told me. I did not say GS was easy, nor did I say it was less physically taxing.

True...but 80h of Gen Surg sucks a whole lot less than 120h does.

I think this is the point the residents were making. Alongside the fact that they are in the hospital for similar hours as many medicine residents.

 

[drizzt3117]

Let's be fair, I just repeated what some PGY-3/4's told me. I did not say GS was easy, nor did I say it was less physically taxing.

I think this is the point the residents were making. Alongside the fact that they are in the hospital for similar hours as many medicine residents.

Idk, I saw a pgy-2 GS resident today that I'd been on surgery with when she was an incoming intern when I started 3rd year and she started residency; I barely recognized her because she looked about 5 years older. I honestly don't think the hours are even comparable; sure you may have to be in the hospital a long time as a medicine resident, but there's a lot of downtime and it's also a much shorter residency.

 

[drizzt3117]

Here we are again with this multiple specialties thing. I had a hard enough time with my schedule applying to one specialty. I turned down many interviews because I either had others scheduled at the same time and there weren't dates available, or because I just didn't have time away from rotations to go to them. There's pre-interview socials the night before that it'd make sense to go to, and transit time. If you apply to multiple specialties you won't be able to be as dedicated as someone that is only applying to one; unless your backup is IM/FM or something uncompetitive that you know you could interview at only a few programs and match (although it seems IM this year was pretty competitive) then you won't have a viable backup. IMO it makes much more sense to apply to a specialty that might not necessarily be your first choice but that you're actually a good candidate for than applying halfheartedly to two different ones.

From what I've seen this year, I'd say to make sure you apply to the field you really want no matter what your grades, etc look like.

I have a lot of friends who on paper you'd think they had a poor shot at matching in their given field. They all got what they wanted.

I'm not saying to apply to Derm with no backup even though you failed Step 1.
I am saying that if that's what you really want you should still apply.
You never know what can happen.

Just apply to something else as well if your application isn't very strong.

 

[Rothbard]

nm

 

[drizzt3117]

I thought tomorrow is match day?

You find out if you match mon and find out where fri

 

[KnuxNole]

Is research mandatory for someone going into Internal Medicine? From all the things I read about matching, it seems everyone and their grandma has done research, and I have done zero research projects in the lab, got published, etc...

 

[drizzt3117]

Is research mandatory for someone going into Internal Medicine? From all the things I read about matching, it seems everyone and their grandma has done research, and I have done zero research projects in the lab, got published, etc...

No, def not. From what I read, you're not set on an academic place either, so it's def not vital.

 

[Raryn]

I thought tomorrow is match day?

Tomorrow they find out *where* they matched. Monday (3 days ago) they found out *whether* they matched.

 

[acrochordon]

And guess what... you just PROVED my point. So, he didn't get in on the first go around but then matched to rad onc after taking a year off to do research?? Indeed, seems that he figured out the way to get what he wanted which, if you recall my initial advice, was exactly what I said to do.

I didn't say screw around and try to get into X on your good looks and 220 score. What I said was that IF you are trying to get into some competitive residency and your scores (despite your best effort) wind up mediocre, you shouldn't lose hope. I truly believe that where there is a will, there is a way - - and like most highly motivated individuals who have dreams or aspirations - - it seems that your friend found his.

False hope? On the contrary... my advice doesn't suggest that it will be easy, only that it is possible. And those who find a way to succeed most assuredly will not be counted among the "typical" medical students of whom you speak..

Good lord, why must this become personal? I'm not looking for validation. I have no doubt in my abilities nor my capacity to succeed. I do, however, think that there are others out there who could use a little more optimism and quite frankly, encouragement.

Sure, it sucks that your "friends" didn't score high enough to get into a surgery program right off the bat. I don't know their personal circumstances and if they could have done better if they tried. If they were playing beer pong every weekend and assuming daddy's (or mummy's) money and connections would get them a spot... well, then obviously, my advice wasn't for them. However, if they did the best they could and still wound up having to, as you put it, enter "bullsh*t malignant prelim surgery programs" why would you begrudge this decision? Would you rather that they simply give up?

Honestly, this whole conversation is getting incredibly tedious so I won't belabor the point any further except to say this... I am firmly convinced that for those who have the will and desire, success is, more often than not, within their reach. It's really unfortunate that so many of you seem to think otherwise.

I'm not a med student, but I've matched a couple of times so I have some insight. Here are my thoughts about things I wish somebody had told me.

1. Step 1 is not "important," Step 1 is the most important thing you will do during your first 2 years, bar none. Seriously. You may be junior AOA and have several first author pubs, but with a Step 1 of 208, your chances of getting a Derm/RadOnc/Ortho/Plastics spot border on zero.

1a. No amount of research or ECs will make up for crappy grades or board scores.
​

2. Everything is important, everything matters. Stop asking if something is important or matters (during med school and during the application/interview season), it makes you look like a tool.

3. Somebody is always watching. Your course performance, clerkship performance, SubI performance, behavior on interviews...it's being watched by somebody. Act like what you're doing matters or go to B school where it really doesn't.

4. Your teachers/supervisors/deans/PD do really want you to succeed. They may not be very good at showing you that (or helping you when you're not) but they do. If you think you need help, get it.

Just wanted to back up momgracea. Here's a copy of my post reagarding my stats when I received an offer last year...YES it is possible for people to match or get into a supercompetitive field, even DERM w/ low board scores -- it just takes time, and it IS possible:

--Board scores: step 1 192, Step 2 188
--Clinical grades: Not AOA, no honors in 3rd year -- HP in family medicine, the rest were all P; honored my surgery sub-i and my dermatology elective ;-)
--Med School: Top 10
--Research - PhD (MSTP), research not derm related. 11 pubs here (+4 later on in derm during post-doc)
--# of aways - 0
--# of programs applied to: 106 DERM + 20 ENT
--# of interviews 13 offers in derm, went to all (unfortunately $$$$) before getting a prematch offer
--Where match: prematched at top tier East Coast program
--misc 2 years post-doctoral basic science research fellowship (4 pubs here IN DERM); military experience, led combat battalion in Afghanistan; also had the chair of program where I did my post-doctoral fellowship making personal phone calls on my behalf; presented orally at SID

 

[sylvanthus]

Just wanted to back up momgracea. Here's a copy of my post reagarding my stats when I received an offer last year...YES it is possible for people to match or get into a supercompetitive field, even DERM w/ low board scores -- it just takes time, and it IS possible:

--Board scores: step 1 192, Step 2 188
--Clinical grades: Not AOA, no honors in 3rd year -- HP in family medicine, the rest were all P; honored my surgery sub-i and my dermatology elective ;-)
--Med School: Top 10
--Research - PhD (MSTP), research not derm related. 11 pubs here (+4 later on in derm during post-doc)
--# of aways - 0
--# of programs applied to: 106 DERM + 20 ENT
--# of interviews 13 offers in derm, went to all (unfortunately $$$$) before getting a prematch offer
--Where match: prematched at top tier East Coast program
--misc 2 years post-doctoral basic science research fellowship (4 pubs here IN DERM); military experience, led combat battalion in Afghanistan; also had the chair of program where I did my post-doctoral fellowship making personal phone calls on my behalf; presented orally at SID

Of course there are always exceptions, noone is denying that. But, for the vast majority of people the above simply does not apply. Also, keep in mind you had a PhD, connections in the field, and prematched (prematch is essentially gone now). How many other medical students with low board scores will have that?

Probably a much smarter idea to focus hard and do well on your boards rather than relying on the false hope that a n=1 example will ring true for them as well.

 

[gutonc]

Just wanted to back up momgracea. Here's a copy of my post reagarding my stats when I received an offer last year...YES it is possible for people to match or get into a supercompetitive field, even DERM w/ low board scores -- it just takes time, and it IS possible:

--Board scores: step 1 192, Step 2 188
--Clinical grades: Not AOA, no honors in 3rd year -- HP in family medicine, the rest were all P; honored my surgery sub-i and my dermatology elective ;-)
--Med School: Top 10
--Research - PhD (MSTP), research not derm related. 11 pubs here (+4 later on in derm during post-doc)
--# of aways - 0
--# of programs applied to: 106 DERM + 20 ENT
--# of interviews 13 offers in derm, went to all (unfortunately $$$$) before getting a prematch offer
--Where match: prematched at top tier East Coast program
--misc 2 years post-doctoral basic science research fellowship (4 pubs here IN DERM); military experience, led combat battalion in Afghanistan; also had the chair of program where I did my post-doctoral fellowship making personal phone calls on my behalf; presented orally at SID

A little disingenuous but congratulations on your match. But you didn't do "some research" (like a summer, a month or three during 4th year or even a full year), you did a PhD AND a post-doc...somewhere between 5-7 years of research. That's a completely different proposition.

 

[Megatron81]

A little disingenuous but congratulations on your match. But you didn't do "some research" (like a summer, a month or three during 4th year or even a full year), you did a PhD AND a post-doc...somewhere between 5-7 years of research. That's a completely different proposition.

Agreed. These people on here saying it's "possible" are completely missing the boat on this thread or just want to self aggrandize. The typical student is a 4th year who has gone straight from undergraduate to medical school. For the typical student high board scores are going to be required for these fields.Honestly this person's anecdotal experience that included a pHD, years off for research, significant military leadership and other jobs is absolutely not typical and has little to no application to the average 1st or 2nd year medical student.

The typical student needs good grades, high board scores, and to demonstrate a significant involvement in research from day one. It's a farce to give advice to people already in medical school when it is completely not applicable or possible for them to utilize it.

 

[acrochordon]

A little disingenuous but congratulations on your match. But you didn't do "some research" (like a summer, a month or three during 4th year or even a full year), you did a PhD AND a post-doc...somewhere between 5-7 years of research. That's a completely different proposition.

Disingenuous? I most certainly say not...

But yes...I didn't just do "some research," but my point was to back up momgracea's post of:

"False hope? On the contrary... my advice doesn't suggest that it will be easy, only that it is possible. And those who find a way to succeed most assuredly will not be counted among the "typical" medical students of whom you speak.."

It IS possible, definitely not easy, but possible. In fact, I don't know of anyone that has REALLY wanted derm. that didn't get in. It may have taken 2..3..maybe even 4 years, but they definitely got in with enough time/persistence. People just have to be realistic about these things.

 

[muchmargarita]

I'm not a med student, but I've matched a couple of times so I have some insight. Here are my thoughts about things I wish somebody had told me.

1. Step 1 is not "important," Step 1 is the most important thing you will do during your first 2 years, bar none. Seriously. You may be junior AOA and have several first author pubs, but with a Step 1 of 208, your chances of getting a Derm/RadOnc/Ortho/Plastics spot border on zero.

1a. No amount of research or ECs will make up for crappy grades or board scores.​

2. Everything is important, everything matters. Stop asking if something is important or matters (during med school and during the application/interview season), it makes you look like a tool.

3. Somebody is always watching. Your course performance, clerkship performance, SubI performance, behavior on interviews...it's being watched by somebody. Act like what you're doing matters or go to B school where it really doesn't.

4. Your teachers/supervisors/deans/PD do really want you to succeed. They may not be very good at showing you that (or helping you when you're not) but they do. If you think you need help, get it.

Some of the best advise I have seen posted. I would like to add this applies to walking in the hallways, hanging in the break rooms and talking to the assistants.

 

[MayoorBust]

No, def not. From what I read, you're not set on an academic place either, so it's def not vital.

So... any regrets in picking a lower ranked school vs a higher one? Anything you learned through the match?

 

[drizzt3117]

So... any regrets in picking a lower ranked school vs a higher one? Anything you learned through the match?

Things ended up working out for me. When I was deciding between med schools, the three schools I was really choosing between were Stanford, UCLA, and my current school. Yesterday I matched into radiology at a top CA program. If I'd gone to Stanford or UCLA I most likely would either wind up there anyways. That being said, I don't think my experiences are broadly generalizable to most people. It's not that easy to go back to CA for residency if you do med school outside of CA and many of my classmates and people I know at other midwestern schools weren't able to go back.

 

[Techmed07]

Things ended up working out for me. When I was deciding between med schools, the three schools I was really choosing between were Stanford, UCLA, and my current school. Yesterday I matched into radiology at a top CA program. If I'd gone to Stanford or UCLA I most likely would either wind up there anyways. That being said, I don't think my experiences are broadly generalizable to most people. It's not that easy to go back to CA for residency if you do med school outside of CA and many of my classmates and people I know at other midwestern schools weren't able to go back.

So when it comes to choosing a school it is important to choose a school in a region where you want to do residency in more-so than the school's prestige and ranking.

 

[drizzt3117]

So when it comes to choosing a school it is important to choose a school in a region where you want to do residency in more-so than the school's prestige and ranking.

Not necessarily, regional ties are important but top tier schools in every region place people into other regions quite well. Wash U grads seemed to match into top programs in the coasts, but I'd agree that regional ties are quite important.

 

[surftheiop]

I really know nothing about the match (only a MS1), but wouldn't your home medschool essentially guarantee you a spot in IM/FM to prevent you from not matching? I imagine having people not match looks rather bad, so unless your criminal wouldn't your medschool want you to have a spot?

 

[2012mdc]

Things ended up working out for me. When I was deciding between med schools, the three schools I was really choosing between were Stanford, UCLA, and my current school. Yesterday I matched into radiology at a top CA program. If I'd gone to Stanford or UCLA I most likely would either wind up there anyways. That being said, I don't think my experiences are broadly generalizable to most people. It's not that easy to go back to CA for residency if you do med school outside of CA and many of my classmates and people I know at other midwestern schools weren't able to go back.

Matching in CA can be very difficult. It does help to be from CA originally or have another strong tie but you're still at a disadvantage compared to those at CA med schools.

I feel very fortunate that I made it back but also feel for those who couldn't.

 

[2012mdc]

I really know nothing about the match (only a MS1), but wouldn't your home medschool essentially guarantee you a spot in IM/FM to prevent you from not matching? I imagine having people not match looks rather bad, so unless your criminal wouldn't your medschool want you to have a spot?

IM probably varies a lot. Good IM programs are competitive and don't reserve spots for everyone especially at the bigger schools.

I can't speak for FM.

You also have to remember program directors are worried about their program. They want to fill with the strongest candidates who also fit in.

 

[drizzt3117]

I really know nothing about the match (only a MS1), but wouldn't your home medschool essentially guarantee you a spot in IM/FM to prevent you from not matching? I imagine having people not match looks rather bad, so unless your criminal wouldn't your medschool want you to have a spot?

In a word, no. Back in the day, you used to be able to get a preliminary easily but with soap it's not so easy.

 

[theMan2012]

Not necessarily, regional ties are important but top tier schools in every region place people into other regions quite well. Wash U grads seemed to match into top programs in the coasts, but I'd agree that regional ties are quite important.

It might come down to either UC Irvine or Mayo for me. If my goal is to do residency in CA, would it be advised to take irvine over mayo?

 

[drizzt3117]

It might come down to either UC Irvine or Mayo for me. If my goal is to do residency in CA, would it be advised to take irvine over mayo?

Yes.

 

[Phyozo]

It might come down to either UC Irvine or Mayo for me. If my goal is to do residency in CA, would it be advised to take irvine over mayo?

I think the answer is that it depends. Mayo is higher on the academic pedigree and you may have more research opportunities than irvine so that may be more advantageous. On the other hand, you get a regional advantage in irvine, but irvine is lower on the academic pedigree and will not help you get interviews from some of the bigger academic powerhouses in cali. Ultimately, I think the regional advantages will be far outshined by doing well on all those other parameters (step 1, clerkships, lor). Having said that, go to irvine and do well because it's freaking cold in mayo and no one wants to live in rochester for four years.

 

[drizzt3117]

I think the answer is that it depends. Mayo is higher on the academic pedigree and you may have more research opportunities than irvine so that may be more advantageous. On the other hand, you get a regional advantage in irvine, but irvine is lower on the academic pedigree and will not help you get interviews from some of the bigger academic powerhouses in cali. Ultimately, I think the regional advantages will be far outshined by doing well on all those other parameters (step 1, clerkships, lor). Having said that, go to irvine and do well because it's freaking cold in mayo and no one wants to live in rochester for four years.

In my experience applying to CA programs, location was an enormous factor. My incoming class at Ucla is 60% UCLA grads and one USC grad.

 

[theMan2012]

I think the answer is that it depends. Mayo is higher on the academic pedigree and you may have more research opportunities than irvine so that may be more advantageous. On the other hand, you get a regional advantage in irvine, but irvine is lower on the academic pedigree and will not help you get interviews from some of the bigger academic powerhouses in cali. Ultimately, I think the regional advantages will be far outshined by doing well on all those other parameters (step 1, clerkships, lor). Having said that, go to irvine and do well because it's freaking cold in mayo and no one wants to live in rochester for four years.

Thank you so much for the advice. On the flip side would mayo help me get into a more competitive residency if I decide to go that route? Plus it's hard to not overlook the cost of mayo which would be about half that of irvine.

 

[drizzt3117]

Thank you so much for the advice. On the flip side would mayo help me get into a more competitive residency if I decide to go that route? Plus it's hard to not overlook the cost of mayo which would be about half that of irvine.

I don't think that mayo will make you more competitive for competitive specialties on the west coast. Midwest/East Coast/South, sure.

 

[theMan2012]

I don't think that mayo will make you more competitive for competitive specialties on the west coast. Midwest/East Coast/South, sure.

So would you also have similar advice for me to stick with irvine?