Medical School Admissions: How can I improve my chances?

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Thank you for all of the great advice in this forum! I am a 33 year old with a Master's in Social Work. I have worked full-time in the NICU and ED for the past two years. I am applying for 2008 and my stats are:

MCAT: 34S
GPA: 3.59
BCPM: 3.74
Post bacc (mostly science classes): 3.96
ECs: play piano and tennis

I have not done much research, although I am currently working on a paper on an infant mental health project I did with several of my colleagues and will submit it to a social work journal.

I have volunteered for the Red Cross stress team as a mental health volunteer and have been able to respond to some local emergencies and participate in drills.

Because I work full-time and am still completing prereqs (8 cr. at this time), it is difficult for me to do more volunteering. Will this hurt my application or do adcoms understand that nontrads may have more difficulty putting in volunteer hours?

Thanks for your help.

It's is understood. Schools look at all you have done and are doing with the time you have available, especially non-trads. But by now I would imagine that you have been offered some interviews and already know this IF you applied to the right schools.

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Hey, I wanted to thank you all in advance... the advice on this forum is really great for all types of applicants.

I wanted to know if it would be a disadvantage to apply at the beginning of a post-bacc/master's program. I'll be taking a year off (current senior applying next cycle) and am planning on a one-year, research intensive post-bac or master's (like NIH IRTA or Mt. Sinai's Master's in Biomed) during my year off. Since these programs would start after I submitted my primaries, would schools hold off on me until I get a semester's worth of grades or results from the program? Also, how would I go about reporting my planned attendance of the program on AMCAS, should I hold off on telling schools until the secondaries?... I have a lowish GPA (3.4 from UCLA) that might raise some flags, 35T (13/11/11) MCAT, and a lot research experience/good LORs from those experiences. Thanks again.

It is a gamble to apply at the same time that you are beginning a 1 year program to enhance your academics. You shouild send update letters to schools to let them know that you have an interest in their program and that you are currently in the program. Also let them know that you will send them a transcript at the end of the fall term/quarter. Strong performance in this program coupled with strong volunteerism/motivation, extra curriculars might garner you an interview in Jan-Mar. If not, you are setting yourself up for a stronger run next year. FYI, in a recent 3-year period 393 UCLA undergrad matriculated to MD programs with an average 31.1 MCAT, 3.61 overall GPA, and 3.56 science GPA.

 

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This is such a great thread! I've learned a lot, but I am looking for some insight on my own situation.

I'll get to the point first about my concern: I'm taking my pre-reqs currently at a community college. I've read the posts that have been tagged in the "How do I improve my chances" thread about them, and I didn't find them all too encouraging.

If I'm applying to a school that doesn't look favorably on CC credits, will I get a chance to explain the "why I chose CC" when interviewing for med school? Or on my application? Will anyone on the adcom care? Or will they just see the CC credit and perhaps dismiss my app before I even get a chance to explain why I chose CC over a 4-year college?

I do think I have a compelling reason for choosing CC instead of credit from a 4-year, so that's why I'm hoping I'll get a chance to explain why. My PS doesn't seem like it would be an appropriate place to do this. My reasons have nothing to do with grade inflation or any perceived "ease" of schooling at CC. I already have my BA in a non-science major. I'm a non-trad, almost 10 years out of UG with a less-than-stellar GPA of 3.1 but no BCPM GPA yet (hopefully 4.0!), but that's another post in itself. I know I have an uphill battle....

My reasons for choosing CC are as follows:

I'm currently self-employed and work full-time (40+hours/wk) doing business consulting work for Tier I companies. I'm also married and a parent to a very young child. So, CC is my best option right now due to its scheduling flexibility (evening classes) and cost.

I live in an area where there is no public state university, and the two private colleges here would cost $3-4k for JUST ONE COURSE a semester. IMO, it's just not economically feasible right now ($3k to take a gen chem-required pre-req college algebra class? I don't think so.).

I do plan on taking some upper level science courses when I get to that point at a public university that is an hour's drive away from me (but it's also in the next state, and OOS tuition is considerably more $$) so I can try and show that I can handle more complex courses at a 4-year university.

I guess I'm just looking for some reassurance that taking some courses at CC won't sink me. Can anyone offer any reassurances? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Seriously, though - Any thoughts? Input? Brutal honesty is fine, too.

Thanks!

Thank you for the inquiry. I think that you are justified, in your situation, to take coursework at a CC, knowing that you will also have to perform very well in upper-level courses when at a 4-year institution. But I dont see the CC issue as the main problem for you. When you get ready to apply to a medical program you will have to prove strong academics, mainly in the sciences. Because your initial degree did not have a strong academic outcome, you will have to convince a committee that you have the "horsepower" to complete medical school academics. What that really means is that you should to show them 2-3 semesters of full-time, solid science courses, with high grades; then support this with a strong MCAT. If you are taking 2 courses per semester at a CC with good outcomes, you are not being too convincing, even with a good MCAT. Also you should also be addressing the medical and helping others volunteerism, shadowing, leadership/teamwork, and maybe bench research areas to some degree to increase your competitiveness in the application pool.

To set yourself up for the best picture of success, get into a second BS degree program (45-60 hrs) in a basic science area on a full-time basis. As a non-trad with the responsibilities you have and location that you are in, what I have outlined will be very difficult unless you are able to make some adjustments. If you dont show a committee these things and nip around the edges, your chances of getting an acceptance are probably less than ideal.

 

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How do admissions commitees view W's in non-prereq courses? I'm currently in my junior year taking elementary Spanish, along with all other science courses. I despise the course right now, and the class began with the assumption that everyone had taken entry level Spanish in high school, which I did not. I feel like the course is moving so quickly that I will drown while I'm trying to keep up with my other course work. I'm considering dropping it until my senior year (foreign language completion is a requirement for graduation). I have no other W's on my transcript. However, dropping the course will move me from 17 credit hours to 13 hours. That's my biggest worry as far as a red flag on my application. My semester/ stats:

Biochemistry
Calc 2
Physics
Spanish
Research Seminar course
Organic Tutoring for 2 hours a week
GED tutoring approximately 8 hours a week
Resident Assistant
Volunteer at a free clinic
VP of Habitat on Campus
GPA = 3.9
Junior

Can anyone offer me advice? Thanks a lot.

While late, I can tell you that one or two W grades on a transcript is not normally a problem. Most schools will ask you to explain W grades in their supplemental application.

 

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I posted this in pre-allo, but not many responses... so i thought this might be a better place:

I've gone through pretty serious chroninc conditions throughout my life and especially in undergrad (which are now thankfully resolved). My family doc is willing to right a LOR describing that i've gone through some very diffucult challanges throughout the years and have still been able to perform well in school. I'm going to give him my resume and my transcript so he will know excatly how much/well i have done.....

Do you think this is a bad idea? I mean of all my LORs he would likely know me the best, and the fact that he's describing my challanges and my ability to overcome them would look good right?

Such a LOR should not be necessary to describe your conditions as long as the condition is being controlled and you can meet the technical standards of the medical programs in order to complete the requirements of the programs. I might only submit such a letter only if you want to show a reason for lesser academics or that you maybe have overcome something that shows inner stength characteristics. Make sure that you review the technical standards of each program and, if necessary, check with national ADA information on accomodation. This can all be addressed after acceptance to a medical school program --- if necessary.

 

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Hi, I completed my BA in Kinesiology with a gpa of 3.45. I am currently taking MCAT classes and I will take the test in January.I felt that my GPA isn't high enough so I applied for a MS in Kinesiology at Cal Poly Slo. I am planning on finishing the masters within 2 years so that the test scores will stay valid. Do you believe that earning a MS will increase my chances of getting into medical school? Please advise. Thank you Jeff Lee

An MS in a basic science area will really do you well, especially if it is full-time. It may also help to maximize your MCAT. Of course there are many other components to a successful application which I am sure your already know. I wish you well

 

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Hi Madame,

Thanks very much for your wisdom. I hate to add more to the pile, but here goes:

I plan to apply next summer. I just graduated from Hopkins with a B.A. in neuroscience, with a 3.4 overall gpa and 3.3 bcpm gpa. These numbers are far from stellar due to a few bumps in the road during the college ride, but I finished off pretty strong. To add more to the overall package I will be enrolling in an M.S. program at Gtown in the fall (basic science program - NOT smp). For the mcat, I got a 29 (9V, 10P, 10B) the first time around and am kind of leaning towards not retaking it. Here are additional stats:

Research: ~ 3 yrs + a publication in a major journal

Clinical: ~ 1 yr of volunteer time at an inner-city free clinic, 1 semester of hospice clinical experience, and I intend to volunteer at the Gtown hospital all year during the time that I am there

ECs: campus tour guide for 4 yrs + leadership positions, symphony for 3 years, study abroad, honor society activities, musical theater production

During the additional year off while I am applying, I would love to teach English abroad, but may consider teaching in the U.S. since the interview situation may be problematic.

I am aiming for my state school, which is a small public university in the Midwest, and would really like to go there if admitted.

Given my low numbers, what would you suggest that I do to further enhance my app to be more competitive at my state school and other schools? Repeat the mcat? Thanks!

Hopefully by now you are excelling at G'twn in the MS in basic science. I agree with the move to help you become more competitive to the school of your choice. You may know that your numbers arent too far off from the nearly 500 Hopkins undergrads who got into a MD program over a recent 3 year period. Those averages were 3.50 OGPA/SGPA and 31.1 MCAT, so a strong performance in your current program will help to substantiate the upward trend in your first degree. Keep hitting the medical motivational & volunteerism as much as possible. You might attempt to get a "counseling" session with the MD program admissions office at the school that you want to attend. Let them get to know you and your interest in their program. Some schools keep counseling notes which might be a minimal factor in their process of selection -- you made the effort to visit and therefore might get the nod above another with a similar file who did not.

 

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I have a question about the english class pre-reqs. I am a non-trad who was a philosophy major. My current post-bac has included only pre-req science courses. I took 1 english class in my original undergrad and did fine on it. My philosophy classes were as, if not more, writing and reading intensive then any english class offered at my school. Is there any way that I will encounter problems applying because of only a single semester of "English" classes. If it matters I wrote a 70 or so page thesis and published numerous philosophical essays.

You will have to contact each program to get them to waive the second English class based on this other writing-intensive courses that you have taken. Make sure that you get the approval in writing (email) and that the school annotates your file with the waiver. I would routinely waive the second English if I was provided a course description of such a course.

 

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Hello, I'm actually a pre-dent but I'm posting here because this is kind of a general admissions question.

A lot of pre-health students, such as myself, volunteer in free clinics and underserved areas. However, I genuinely wish to practice community dentistry and be involved in free clinics, in addition to private practice.

As I write my personal statement, how do I convey my sincerity to do this without sounding like I'm just saying what I think the adcom wants to hear? I don't want them waving the "BS flag" once they read my PS. Advice please?

A reader will never absolutely know your intent when you write about your current plans and future desires. The best way to make the best impression is to write about your desires and then support your written work with complementary actions. If you are volunteering in free clinics, that supports your desire to participate in one in the future. Including some verbage about your motivations derived from your free clinic experiences is also a good idea.

 

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Thanks to SDN mentors for answering so many pages of questions - they were a great read.

I'm a junior at Berkeley, planning to take the MCAT next April and apply 2008.

My GPA is mediocre, since I did not know what I wanted to do for my first year in college. I took a bunch of business and music classes which I didn't do well in. There is a clear upward trend since, and I plan to work even harder for the final semester before applying. Right now my GPA is 3.57, BCPM is 3.75.

As for EC's, I'm volunteering at a hospital (started Fall 07), tutoring underpriviledged elementary graders (fall 07). Shadowed my dad once in a while. No research; tried applying for lab positions that interested me but competition is fierce. I'm going to keep trying though, since it has gotten me all curious. How will it look to adcomms only having done research for ~half a semester? After reading other people's EC's, I have no idea how to stand out in this department. I wish I got more involved earlier. There is more I want to do during my last years in college, but I'm worried it would seem like I am "padding" my resume before application. I hope you can give me some advice on this matter.

I have other fun activities such as IM's and my fraternity. I was wondering how adcomm's viewed general fraternities: It has offered me leadership roles which I've learned a lot from, but you know the reputation fraternities have to some people.

Thank you in advance. I know you mentors are busy, and I appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to help us.

Thank you for your inquiry. Your numbers are competitive with a recent 3 year period where almost 900 UC Berkley undergrads were accepted to MD programs with a 3.5 BPCM, 3.6 OGPA, and a 32.1 MCAT. So you are looking to continue with strong full-time academics, especially in the basic sciences to keep the trend sky-rocketing while also working to the max on the MCAT. Show a continued commitment to medical and community service activities, leadership, and some more shadowing (outside of the family influence please!). Research can't hurt but has different values at different MD programs, so evaluate whether research is your interest and follow-through accordingly. Of course this also dictates to which programs you will apply (visit your premed advising office for a look at the MSAR). Finally your application may be strengthened by slyly working in a statement or two in the Personal Statement about when/why you made the final decision to head in the MD direction.....a timeframe which may (?) dovetail with your commitment to volunteerism, etc.

 

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Hello. I was accepted to go to a non-med school professonal program but I withdrew prematurely.

I feel a need to pursue Medical School but I feel I have a lot against me.

I am 40, with no volunteer experience or research experience or teaching experience. I have been working in hospital laboratories for almost 15 years but I lack anything significantly clinical.

I have taken all of the necessary prerequisites but some of them are quite old (over 10 years) and are not stellar (less than 3.0).

What do you recommend and in what order?

Understatement: Admissions to medical school is competitive.
Age is not, and cannot be, a factor in the admissions process and over the last 5 years the process has become "kinder" to non-traditional applicants. To be successful you must convince an admissions committee of your motivation and academic viability.

Academic viability: I would recommend that you enroll in a full-time basic science second bachelor's degree (probably 48-60 hours), taking challenging coursework and doing well. This, and then doing well (30+) on the MCAT, will help a committee to answer the academic question. If you dont do as well as you would like you can then proceed to take a full-time MS in a basic science area and retake the MCAT to increase your candidacy for future attempts.

Career motivation: You must answer the question why now? To do this you should have a starting point, a point of revelation, that you really want to do this. This means that you have tested the theory by being around medicine and people, that you really understand the hours and hours of investment that it will take to not only complete medical school and residency, but to continue on to be a complete doctor. You would naturally show this by presenting a consistent history of medical clinical related volunteerism with patient related association and that, having shadowed a physician for several days, you know what their day is all about. Then you display your compassion for others by also presenting a consistent history of community service related volunteerism. Throw in some teamwork/leadership skills, a solid personal statement, excellent letters of recommendation, and even some bench research and you have now become competitive with the applicant group. To begin medical clinical volunteering you will have to find a position at a hospital/clinic or doctor's office. Once you get into a clinical environment, the you can begin to get to know a few docs that you can eventually request to shadow. You can best enter these areas via your own network associations through your research or own physician who may be willing to refer you to a collegue.

You do not have to have all of the above, but without them it is a bit more difficult unless you have some type of real "primo" experience that would help you to diversity the class. Otherwise this is a fairly good forumla to present yourself as a competitive applicant that should allow you to receive some interviews. From this point there are no guarantees.

Alternative idea: If I understand your situation, it is likely to take 2+ years before you become a competitive candidate, several more months to go through the application cycle, then if you do get accepted on the initial attempt, 4 years of med school and then 3-7 more years in post-med school residency, etc. Obviously if you have to reapply, then we increase the above by an additional year. If your goal is to be of service to others as a medical professional, I wonder if you might consider PA or nursing where there is more of a guaranteed result with a shorter time to become productive. You would incur less debt, be practicing earlier, and impact the lives of others for a longer period.

 

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Which area(s) do I need to strengthen, and which area(s) are ok? I'm a sophomore, and the way things are going, my application is probably going to look like this when I apply. I can't do anything about the beginning of the downward trend, but I can turn it turn it around starting next semester. I also want to be an RA my junior year, which means I should probably take a slightly lighter course-load (12-14 credit hours, rather than 15-16), but I'm worried that it'll seem like I'm trying to nurse my GPA back to health. Should I just not be an RA? I think it'd be a really good experience, and it would help me save $$ for the application process, but if it would hurt my chances I'd rather not.

Female, age 21
Major: either Biochemistry or English
GPA: ~3.7 with a W in science, one or two C's with one in science, a downward then upward trend, and a slightly lighter course-load in the Junior year.
MCAT: ???
Hobby: I like to sketch, especially portraits.

- Volunteered at a hospital for ~250 hrs in high school
- Volunteered at another hospital ~60 hours in college
- Hospice volunteer, at least 1 semester
- Shadowed one MD and one DO
- Relay for Life team leader, 4 years
- Member of AED, pre-health honors fraternity, 2 years (I'm mainly in this because it's fun and it's a good way to learn about volunteer opportunities)
- HHMI Research scholarship, possibly another small research scholarship.
- Research, either 1.5 years and over, or 2.5 years and counting. One poster, may be listed as one of the authors on a publication*
- Diabetes camp volunteer, one or two summers (one week long)
- RA for at least a summer, hopefully for the following school year or more
- Volunteer Coordinator of SONG for 3 years and counting, a group of college students that sings at retirement homes, socializes with the people there afterward, and sometimes volunteers.
- English Language partner: met with a foreign student weekly for friendly conversation to help them get used to the language.

*I love research but I hate chemistry, so I'm not sure how this is going to turn out. That's also why I'm undecided about the major. If it wasn't for research, I'd major in English in a heartbeat. In a perfect world, I would major in English, take biochemistry and a few other sciences as electives, and keep researching. Any advice on this subject would be appreciated too.

Thank you so much for reading this and taking the time to give feedback.

It looks like you are tending to everything that you can to make yourself a competitive applicant. Continue med motivation and people volunteerism as you can. You cant do anything about GPA past, but you must continue a good strong trend, 12+ hours per sem, solid courses, work sciences as hard as you can. Maybe you can have a perfect world --- English is a good solid major. You dont have to be a science major to enter med school, but you do have to do well in the sciences that you do take. It is my impression that English, Math, and Engineering majors do quite well on the MCAT, and an English major would be a factor in diversifaction in a classroom. Finally research is a differing factor in admissions at different programs, so depending on your "target" schools, maybe you have met what they would need --- though it sounds like you REALLY want to keep doing research.

 

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Hello,

I got my undergrad from an institution that provides narrative evaluations of performance instead of GPA's. How is this typically viewed by medical schools? My academic work was good, but alas - not easily quantifiable.

In my case I will have to enroll in a post-bacc in any case, as I haven't completed the science requirements (I took graduate level courses in genetics, immunology & geology, but never touched the basic sciences). Would a solid GPA from my post-bacc year(s) be sufficient?

Thankyou kindly in advance

Each school would look at this differently, but would very much welcome the additional coursework with GPA's to help understand your academic power. If at all possible take a couple of full-time semesters of good coursework to really give an admissions committee a chance for an accurate evaluation. Often applicants from these types of schools struggle on the standardized exams (MCAT) which might be a strong indicator in cases like yours -- a strong MCAT would give a committee an indicator. Finally schools will look back to see if they have accepted applicants from your program and then try to determine how functional those students were in their med curriculum.

 

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Hi everyone, I just need a little advice, and any input would be greatly appreciated. I am a FL resident currently applying to med schools. I have a 3.74 overall and 3.77 science (significant upward trend, all As last two years after switching major from engineering to premed) with a 28O, research, volunteering experience and run my own tennis teaching business. I am graduating at the end of this fall semester, and I am unsure of what I should do with this next spring semester. Furthermore, I am unsure of what I should do with my year off in the case that I don't get into school this year (I realize my MCAT is low). I know that there are special masters programs and post bacs that I could do if I had to take a year off, but i'm not sure if they would be beneficial for me or not. I'm thinking maybe admissions committees would like to see more clinical experience, but i'm also not exactly sure how to find a job that would help me in that manner. Basically, aside from retaking the MCAT if I don't get in this cycle, I can't figure out what to with with a spring semester off and possibly a year off after that. Should I apply for a masters program, post bac, or try to get more clinical experience, or something else? Any input would really help me, thanks!

Based on what you say here your last two years of 4.0 full-time work in substantive coursework and solid overall GPA should not cause a concern to an admissions committee in Florida. Your GPA is an excellent, solid average in Florida med school entering classes. I dont see where additional academics will do anything significant for you ---- unless your MCAT science foundation is weak. I would suggest 1) dive deeply into the realm of the MCAT and bring a 30+ to the table, 2) absolutely show strong motivation for medicine by consistent medical clinical volunteerism and some physician shadowing, 3) display humanism and concern for others by consistently volunteering in community service related activities (meals on wheels, MET ministries, fee homeless, Christmas baskets, hospice, big bro, habitat, etc.), 4) prove teamwork and leadership skills, 5) send an update letter to schools that have not yet offered an interview to show your interest.

 

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I am a pre med student and I have 3.53 overall GPA. I have a C in my Caluculus 1 class and another C in my organic 1 class. I took Cal 1 again and got an A and I have As in Calculus 2 and 3. I am retaking my organic class. I moved to US a couple of years ago and I didnt know that Ws were such a great deal, so I have five so far. I have 4.0 in inorganic chemistry, 3.5 in phyics, 4.0 in Math (I took cal 1 again) 3.4 in Biology. I still have a year left so I will try my best to pull up my GPA.

I am a full time student and I work two jobs. I have done research University of Texas health Science center. I have abundant volunteering experience and will do shadowing or something during the coming summer.

Do I have a chance in Medical school. I will take Kaplan for MCAT prep. I am just so worried about Ws and two Cs.

I am doing all I can.. Do you have any further suggestions?

Thank you.

Yes you have a chance ---- I dont know how good because there are many factors I do not know about what your complete file will look like. If you abundant volunteering in both med clin and comm svc, your odds rise. A strong MCAT and your odds rise. Some teamwork/leadership skills - your odds rise. Working and research should be factors when a committee reviews what you did with your time and why.

Now about your academics. You will probably be asked to explain W's and lower than B grades by many programs in the supplemental application. You really should string 2-3 full-time, very solid science semesters together to show an admissions committee that the checkerboard of W's and C's are in the past. Many schools would prefer that you not retake courses but rather take a 3rd course in that discipline sequence and do very well. Now your GPA. AMCAS normalized the GPA process and your AMCAS GPA will likely be lower than your school GPA. It appears that you school allows for grade forgiveness allowing you to retake a course and only figuring the best grade in your GPA. AMCAS counts all course grades. Therefore if you repeat a course and replace a D grade with an A grade, both are computed in your AMCAS GPAs.

Short answer: need 2-3 strong science semesters, very solid MCAT, and continue med motivation/comm svc vol....and good idea to get some shadowing done. These being done well should increase your stock. Good luck.

 

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Hi, I was wondering about a similar situation--assume that you defer your acceptance to a med school in order to do a year abroad as a Fulbright Scholar. Would reapplying be a detriment? One the one hand--it is an 'academic reason' for postponing med school; however on the other hand the student would already have an acceptance in hand.

Alternatively--Is it possible to apply to schools in the next round (while abroad) while still retaining the deferred acceptance?

Not all programs will allow an accepted applicant to defer (See MSAR). Most programs that allow accepted applicants to defer also require that the applicant will only reapply through AMCAS to that program (normally stated in the letter agreeing to the deferral from the school which you must respond with accept/decline letter). If this is the program's policy, AMCAS will lock down your reapplication only to that program.

 

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Another Florida resident here. I have an abysmal undergrad GPA of 2.5. Three years out of school, I started taking classes again with the intention of med school. It's not technically full time credit-wise, but it's about three science classes per semester which keeps me busy. I have 32 credits so far with a 3.9. I'm planning on another 30 before I apply. I also volunteer at a local hospital and work part-time.

Aside from getting a solid MCAT score which is a given, what else will med schools want from me to assure them my 2.5 undergrad was a reflection of someone who never summoned the work ethic to study, but had the ability and now has the drive to prove it?

You appear to be on the right track, though I am not a fan of nipping with a few hours per semester --- it may work, but it would be better to make it the priority and take full-time semesters of strong science coursework. Leave a committee with no questions as to you being able to do full-time academics along with all else life throws at you -- volunteering, work, etc. This will be important for a committee to see considering that your initial effort wasnt stellar. You'll be doing 60 hours-per-week of school related activity in med school.....and live life too.

 

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Okay, I have a few questions I would really appreciate any answers for them

First, a brief background...
So I have just finished a year of ugrad at Berkeley, and am thinking of doing community college for the fall semester to raise my relatively low GPA of 3.16 at Berkeley and 3.4 overall including college courses I did while still in high school. I am pretty sure I can do pretty well at community
college (just for one semester) and get close to a 4.0. I know this GPA won't transfer onto my Berkeley GPA, but at least it will count towards my cumulative AMCAS GPA, correct? All the while, I am planning on also studying further for my MCAT so I can hopefully bring my score up to 36+ (scoring about 32 on aamc exams right now...). Also, for EC maybe I'll do EMT training and volunteer at a hospital for a semester. Would this all be advisable to do? By the way, the reason for doing the semester at CC, was for a couple reasons.
1.) This is the main reason. I feel I have a problem with study skills. All through my career I have learned material, but never really learned how to learn. That is why sometimes people I know who know less material actually score better on exams. My dad is really good at this, and said he could help me for a semester to learn this vital skill. I find this a very important endevour and could not be accomplished if I go to Berkeley. I tend to head back to old bad habits when the going gets tough, so if I had some time with an easier workload such as that at a CC I could hone my skills to apply for the rest of life.
2.) A less important but still pretty vital reason, is so that I can improve my MCAT score. Given the skills I will hopefully acquire, and given several months my goal is to score in the 35+ range.
In Summary: Main motivation is upping my study skills and discipline. Secondary Reason, improve AMCAS GPA and MCAT score.

Since I've heard these two factors speak louder than anything else, I figure it would be worthwhile, right?

Main Question: Given the circumstances, would it be advisable to spend a semester at community college?

Secondly, I figure that if I stay at Berkeley I will probably be able to scrouge up a max of 3 A's and B every semester. Overall that comes out to be like a 3.6. However, I was thinking maybe the best option would be for me to go transfer back to my home state school of UT Austin from the Spring semester onwards. The sc Yeah, so I don't know if those reasons sound very solid to other people, but I think they are good ones, right?ale is better there, imo, there is no +/- system (I'm pretty sure), which I like better. Also, honestly, classes are easier there. Several of my friends are currently going there and they mostly smoke pot and get A's. I'm not saying it would be easy there, just easier. With hard work at least it would be possible for me to make all A's or close to it. I may even have a little time left over for things like research, volunteering, etc. which I didn't get much time for at Berkeley.

Would this be a smart move?

Basically, it is not about finding the easy way out, it is about maximizing my chances imo. I want to do everything I can to have the best chance.

Thank you so much for listening and any responses

Several months have passed. Please repost if you still desire an answer.

 

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I will be volunteering at an AIDS clinic in the area and I also do volunteer work with my church youth program. B/c I feel there is so much to do, I won't be applying till 2009. That will give me time to review for the MCAT and retake any classes I may need, plus I will have completed my master's program.

Thanks for the info, I wish you well.

 

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Figure I'd throw this out. I recently graduated from college with a 3.75 and a 3.62 BCPM. My MCAT score is a 36Q (13-VR, 12-PS, 11-BS). I have a decent amount of extracirculars, but I have no science research (I do have a considerable amount of History research.) I have some clinical experience (80 hours), but plan on bolstering it this year by volunteering at a hospital again. I applied to a wide variety of schools (all five public schools in Ohio, USUHS, Chicago, Mayo, University of Utah, OHSU, University of Washington) but so far have only heard back from the University of Chicago- where I was put on hold.

I have a couple of questions: First, what is the likelihood that I get into medical school this year? Second, assuming I don't, would I be better off trying to get a 2-years Master's in a hard science (probably Biology, I'd prefer it to others) or working in a medical setting next year? I've tried to do that where I am, but haven't had much luck, and can't take time off to get some training because I'm putting my wife through her last year of school. Thanks.

I'd say you have a great chance this year if you can interview well. You probably have an answer to these questions by now......

 

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Hi - thanks for your previous help (I asked a question months ago), and in advance now.

I'm a non-traditional student taking my pre-reqs at UCLA extension. So far I've been doing very well, with the top grade in the class in almost all of my classes. I'd like to have this information, specifically, in my application one way or another, as it reflects my commitment as well as my ability - my undergrad gpa was a little lackluster, so it's important to me that I show that I can really do this. I don't want to appear arrogant, however.

My understanding is that usually, a committee LoR is where this kind of info would be included, but I won't get one from UCLA extension.

My question is: one, is it even worthwhile to try to fit this into the application, and two, how would I go about doing it?

Best way is to send updated transcripts showing recently completed coursework and maybe an update letter for your file indicating interest in their program because........

 

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I'm a senior with a cum GPA 3.15, BCPM 2.97 at an ivy. My MCAT is a 33 overall, 13PS/11V/9BS. I have volunteered at two hospitals, researched for a summer, and shadowed. I have a few questions and I would greatly appreciate any insight.

1. I have already made the decision to not apply to med school this cycle. To enhance my application, I am leaning towards SMPs, for two reasons. I have heard that SMP counts separate from undergrad grades, as opposed to postbacc, which averages into the undergrad GPA. Also, some SMPs allow me to take medical school classes. Given my stats, do you think SMPs would be the best option out of grad school/postbacc/research?

2. I have horrendous scores in organic chemistry and biology. Should I try to address these issues by taking upper level classes, or wait until SMP (assuming I can get in)?
Orgo I/II/Lab - C, C+/B-
Bio 1/2 - C/C+
Biochem/Physiology - C+/A-

I think I rushed through taking my Premed requirements, especially on an engineering schedule. But honestly these pure memorization classes are very tough for me.

3. I took my MCAT in 2006. Will I have expiration issues by the time I apply to med school (say matriculation in 2010)?

Thank you !

I strongly urge you to stay away from an SMP at this point. An SMP is an end-game option only for those who have a solid science foundation. I dont see a strong science foundation. I would suggest a second bachelor's degree in a basic science area where you take full-time loads of solid courses and show strong knowledge. AMCAS depicts post-bacc grades separately from your first bachelor's coursework so med schools will see the post-bac coursework separately. Yes they will be averaged into the total undergrad GPA number, but the do break it down by "year" of academics (fr, so, jr, sr, pb). You would want to mention this second degree in your supplemental application to med programs and send updated transcripts to programs at the end of each semester during your application year. Along the way keep up with medical and comm svc volunteerism.

 

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Thanks for this fantastic resource--really appreciate you guys taking the time to weigh in! I have a couple of specific questions.

Background: I am a 27-year-old non-traditional applicant. My overall GPA isn't great (3.51) but my overall BCPM is 3.77 and my postbac GPA is 3.90 over 44 credits, so I have a strong upward trend. I never considered medical school as an undergrad and my personal statement details the events that shaped my decision, so I think I have a fairly strong case there. Both my undergrad and postbac institutions are considered excellent if not top schools which must count for something.

MCAT: 37S on first try, well balanced (11-PS, 13-VR, 13-BS).

I will have six letters of recommendation; the two strongest are from a lawyer whom I worked with for 2.5 years and from my current research professor. Both these people know me very well and I believe have written me excellent letters. The experience and exposure I had as a legal assistant after college was a large part of my personal statement and I believe it's one of the unique/strong points of my application.

Concerns: I applied late in the cycle (just last week) and my AMCAS has yet to be verified, although I have received one secondary already. I am worried that it may not be verified for a couple of weeks and that will really hurt my chances at schools with rolling admissions. Is this going to put me at a slight disadvantage or a large disadvantage? I'm already starting to compose my secondary essays (thanks to SDN's links to the ones I haven't received yet) and I plan to have them all in well before the deadline. Hopefully the "application complete" date is more important than AMCAS primary verification date....

My other concern is the weak spot I see in my clinical experience and exposure to the profession. I have been unable to find a physician willing to let me shadow thus far, and I'm currently working full-time and don't anticipate having time to shadow at this point. I did essentially shadow a doc for a few hours per day for several days while volunteering in the Dominican Republic, and he wrote me a rec letter, but should I do everything I can to shadow a few docs before interviews?

Also, if anyone is bored, take a look at my schools on my MDapplicants.com page. It's an ambitious list, especially with all the out-of-state schools. I really don't want to stay in my home state, but I want to go to a school strong in both primary care and research.

My guess is that you have had several invitations to interview. While a later-life decision you should get several opportunities to interview, so if you can show desire, compassion, integrity you should have some options come your way. If you still havent gotten the interviews you desire, send an update tramscript and letter showing your volunteerism, humanism, etc.

 

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I am considering writing letters of interest to the schools with which I've interviewed and have a question in a few parts. Is it appropriate to write letters of interest to schools you have and have not interviewed? Ostensibly, the LOI would be for different purposes in each case but I wasn't sure how they might be interpreted.

The second part of the question is, how strongly can a post-interview LOI be? If there is a school I really want to attend, should that be part of the letter? The follow-up there is, could another school view my LOI to another school as less of a commitment to them? I'm sure there is an element of paranoia to this question, but I want to express my interest in these schools without damaging my chances at the others. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Most schools I know dont put a lot of stock in LOI's since the game is always changing with applicant opportunities, funding, etc. As such, I cant ever recall discussing LOI's or specific students who have "definitely" committed with other admissions offices. They are such a minor factor in the overall process. If you want to send them, have integrity, and let each school know where you stand --- you are my top school, you are one of my top two/three schools, etc., and then support with reasoning.

 

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Hi

I failed out of UIC COM three years ago after trying to get in for five years. My scores at the time were 28 and 31 on the MCAT and 3.4 GPA; i was 25y/o.

Since dismissal, I have been enrolled in a Master's for Engineering. GPA is 3.0 and MCATs were 30 and 28. I reapplied twice to UIC and was rejected.

The focus of these past few years has been becoming a much better student. After the latest early decision rejection, my thoughts have really been about thinking about my passion for medicine and what personal deficits caused the failure the first time (ie I concluded that my failure was due to being out of school for five years and experiencing "culture shift", that by getting back in and then taking a review course the summer before I had the problem neatly solved...) But with the latest rejection, I feel apologetic and remorse, where as before I simply felt this was all just a technical issue that I would have taken care of, that this experience was an opportunity to explore graduate engineering courses.

I am committed to medicine; am prepared to stay mentally strong; want to know what the next step should be? Would sending a letter of apology to the ADCOM demonstrate a better appreciation and understanding of the magnitude of my dismissal?

At this point, my passion for medicine is fueled by 1) patient encounters that make me want to be apart of the human equation 2) to desire to be big-hearted in situations to reassure patients and their families 3) to use computational techniques to bridge medicine and enginnering for everything from wait times to diagnositcs.

So at this point, should I retake the MCAT, should I enroll in a traditional science postBac vs the grad. eng. courses I now take, does applying Early Decision improve or hurt chances ? How would getting a job in industry vs staying in school and pursuing a PhD help or hurt?

Any help would be great.
Thankyou

With the applicant pool being as large as it has been, with MCAT scores averaging higher, and with your previous admissions and failure to meet the academics, it may be next to impossible for you to regain a seat in an MD program.

My first recommendation would be to pursue another healthcare field and get on with it. Then after a few years, you MIGHT be able to make the switch and get into an MD program if still desired -- I would still estimate your chances at being very slim.

If you wont let it go, you should show stellar academics in basic sciences with BS/MS degree(s) and very strong MCATs, coupled with med/comm svc volunteerism. Also go to med school admissions offices and speak with them to get a feeling for those who may be interested in supporting your future application. Even doing these things you will have spent a lot of time and money and I still would not be too optimistic about your chances.

 

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I have a question about my gpa and how it will be perceived.

I started out as a history major at the University of Illinois. My Gpa after the first semester was 3.76.

I dedcided to go to a community college the next year AND work while changing my major to Bio. my grades suffered from the 30+ hours of work a week and the changing from a history style of classes to Calc Bio and Chem. My Gpa at that institution was 2.727
Grades:
Chem I B
Chem II B
Bio I B
Bio II C
Calc I - C
Composition II C
Psyc I A
Speech B
Anthropology 101 B

This year I am at a different University and my grades are considerably better (straight A) now that I am not working, and more serious about my classes.

Is this community college year going to look really bad to Med schools?

Yes, it is going to look really bad to medical schools. Whether founded or not, courses at CC's are often perceived as "less rigorous" than at a four year school. The good news is that you have two more years, 4+ semesters, to impress an admissions committee. You should take full-time loads of rigorous coursework and do very well. Take upper level chem/bio courses to show mastery of the subject --- do not repeat lower-level courses unless absolutely necessary. Come to the table with a higher MCAT and also have all of the other med/comm svc volunteerism, research, etc, as desired by your targeted programs. Work closely with your premed advisor and the MSAR to determine where to apply.

 

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How did you know that being a doctor is really what you wanted?

If you have to ask, you probably dont really WANT it. Most applicants are driven by life experiences into a career of medical service and are willing to spend inordinate parts of their life and self in a career of humanitarianism and life-long learning. You have to be the one to make the decisions (not parents/peers) and you have to know the reasons why it is/is not the career for you. Develop a consistent history of med clinical & comm svc volunteering, shadow physicians, etc. These things will help you to make your decision.

 

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Hello,

I was wondering how a big D looks to admissions.
I am a 31 year old transfer student at ucla majoring in philosophy. I just finished my first year here with a 3.1 gpa

my science grades here so far:
Ochem1- B+
Ochem2- B+
Ochem3- A-
OchemLab- D

LifeScience2- B+

Philosophy- mostly B+'s but 2 B's and one B-.

The first year was difficult for me because I was going through some personal difficulties. I took a D in the lab because I could not take a W because I would have had to pay back financial aid money that I needed at the time. I worked this year at a genetics research lab on campus. Starting this year im volunteering to do lab research for a graduate student who is studying evolutionary biology. I plan to do some clinical volunteering starting next summer when I have more time.


I had a 3.45 GPA at the community college I transferred from.

Intro chem-A
Chem1-A
Chem2-C

Bio1-A

I picked up my GED after my first year of community college. When I returned to school about 5 years ago I had hardly any math skills (or any skills!). I placed in remedial algebra. So I took all the math classes up to Pre calculus. (rocky, but I did decent) I also tutored for introductory and pre-nursing chemistry for 2 semesters here as well.

Medicine and health is something that has always interested me. I love learning, service, and education.

I know this is early in the game for me. I still have a full year of calculus, physics, some bio-chem, and 2 more bio classes, and of course repeating the ochem lab.

A few questions:
-Do you think having a low GPA (B+ range)in a non-science major will hurt?
-Do you think that having done some important science classes at the community college will hurt?
-How ugly is that D? (I think a W looks a little Weak though too!)

Many overcome a slower start and are in medical school today. They did it by immersing themselves in full-time coursework with very good outcomes supported by at least an average MCAT score. As always you need to demonstrate medical motivation and humanitarianism (volunteering in each) and do all of the other things over your academic career. Work closely with your premed advisor and use the MSAR to build an application strategy. You can survive a D or W, but not mulitiples of either.

 

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Hi,

I applied for an early assurance program (which used AMCAS as their primary application). If I am not admitted to this program, I plan on applying next June. Does this make me a previous applicant, since I used AMCAS? Or not, since it was only an early assurance program?
I only ask because if I'm a previous applicant, I will have to work on my applicant for that school next time around to show improvement

Thanks!

Good question and I have mixed feelings on the response. If I have my definitions correct, Early Assurance is a guaranteed entry program for undergraduates into a single MD program and requires an application via AMCAS simply for record keeping, app fee waived, etc. If my definition is correct then I would say NO to being a previous applicant since this is a special entry program.

 

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Is anyone familiar with the "alternate acceptance" program at George Washington University Medical Center? Soft rejection? This was really my first choice and before I call and write them does anyone have any advice?

Apparently we have no familiarity and presumably you have already contacted them. If you still desire a response, please resubmit.

 

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Hi,

I'm a non-traditional student who graduated in 05 with a 3.45gpa. After graduation, I got a job outside of US and worked for a little over a year. Things didn't work out as well as I planned, and as a late decision, I decided that I want to try and pursue medical school. So I took the MCAT's in July 06 and received a mediocore score of a (9V, 11P, 12B) 32P.

I worked during my undergrad career so I'm blank on EC's and hospital experience. I'm currently volunteering at two separate hospitals, and working in a cancer cell lab on weekend for starters....

Due to my low GPA and mediocore MCAT, I am in doubt of my competitiveness as an applicant for the year 2009 which I plan on attending if accepted. So basically I have a few basic questions:

1. Will schools hold it against me since I decided so late to pursue medicine? Because it'll obvoiusly show that I am involved in my current volunteer work and the "so-called" laboratory for resume building purposes only, and not because I really have a desire or admiration to study medicine or to become a doctor. And as I understand most medical schools want to see early dedication and passion for medicine (ideally starting from freshman year of college or even high school for some applicants).

2. Due to my current grades and exam score, would you recommend I re-take the MCAT or do a 1 year post-bacc in attempt to improve my acedemic resume?

3. What other types of work, or EC's as they put it, should I get involved in to strengthen my application?

If pursuing a MD school is out of my range, I'd rather know now and not waste my time than to go through the process and find out the hard way with rejection letters.

Thank you in advance to taking the time to read my extreme long post... I just really need some honest advice.

I'm not working with all of the information but I'll assume that your 3.45 is below the average of others from your program who have matriculated into a medical school. With that assumption I would recommend a one-year 2nd bachelors 50 hrs +/-. Full-time, heavy on basic sciences to show a committee your academic abilities. There are lots of non-traditional students getting into medical school so making a later decision to attend medical school isnt too bad for you. You must be convincing in your medical motivation and compassion for others and you have to start the volunteering some time. I wouldnt think that this would be your year, but if you do work hard you might be competitive next year. Provide a good personal statement, LOR's, and be convincing in the interviews. I cant gurantee anything, you will have to determine your investment/outcome tolerance.

 

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Thank you in advance for replying to this post. I know it would be better placed in the SMP or post bacc forums but I have posted there and have had no responses.
Some background-
UG Biomedical Eng. 2.92/BCMP about the same
Masters Biomedical Eng. 3.9
NJ resident with NJ schools as top choices
Want to apply to US allopathic medical schools. I am not sure if I should do an SMP (like the one at UMDNJ where you take medical school courses)
or do a formal/informal post bacc to boost ugrad gpa.
and if the answer is to boost ugrad gpa, do I re-do the prereqs or take upper level science courses?
Which would look the best to med school adcoms?
I know each of these options will take 1-2 years but I dont want to pick the "wrong" one and then end up 2 years behind.
Any thoughts? Thanks so much!!

My first vote goes to a 1-year basic science post-bac BS if available or similar MS if no BS. Must be full-time, try not to repeat course work unless absolutely necessary to build that foundation. Save the SMP for final effort if you dont do well otherwise. Must have strong MCAT and a strong history of mecical clinical and community svc volunteerism, some physician shadow, leadership/teamwork, maybe basic sci research too be to competitive with the bevy of other applicants out there. Show motivation in personal statement, have strong LOR's from newest academic program, be conversational in the interview --- often difficult for an engineer. Review MSAR to see what your target schools in NJ are really looking for; go visit them and get their advice if at all possible.

 

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Hi,

I need some advice. I have a 3.9 BCPM GPA and 3.8 non-science GPA and MCAT 40. I have excellent LORs and have worked in two research labs for 2 years and have a few publications. I have also worked as a medical assistant in Africa and here in USA. I have also worked in a clinic reading cancer patient records for 3 years. In summer, I had internship at NYU. I also have a degree in history from India. Do you think I have a shot at top tier schools? Oh here comes the bad part: I have 12 dropped courses in my early years as I lost my parents....and was unable to cope...

Write an effective personal statement and target the right schools by reviewing the MSAR. You'll be fine, but you probably know that by now.

 

[REL]

REL, I saw your advice to someone else about taking a full time courseload. I've been taking three sciences and two labs a semester as a post bac = 11 credits. My advisor told me repeatedly NOT to take another science class and I already have over 200 credits so there's really nothing that I can take. Took all my foreign languages, psych, sociology, math, English, art, speech, etc. It seems like a waste of money to enroll in something basic just to get the credit number up.

So my question is will my 11 credits be considered full time or do I have to take a fourth science class to show med schools I can do it? And if your advice is to take a fourth science, how do I explain that to my advisor who's been lecturing me against it since I started there?

Surely we wont quibble over an hour. The goal is to show med schools that your appication indicates that you can survive the academics of med school. Not knowing exactly the makeup of your academics, since you have taken many hours, you might consider moving up to MS level work to show strength of academics and build that foundation for a convincing MCAT. Along with the 11 hours show that you are using your time wisely toward the EC's necessary. Med schools will look to see what you did with time available and will understand some periods of less that FT loads if you prepare a thorough application.

 

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I am a somewhat non-traditional applicant. I studied Economics at a UC, and received a 3.1 GPA. I worked for 2 years in finance, but decided over time that medicine is a better fit for me. So, I recently enrolled at a local university, and just finished my first semester prereqs (Bio Chem and Physics w/ Lab), and I plan to get a 4.0 (so far I am acing all my classes). I have spoken with my adviser, and I plan to finish all my pre-reqs including orgo by the end of summer 2008, and take the MCAT and apply in the summer of 2008 (aiming for mid 30s).

My question is, what can I do to bolster my application? I was thinking about getting licensed as an EMT to get hands on emergency care experience. Is that something that would look good for adcoms, or would I be better off just doing a more traditional hospital volunteer work?

My application is slowly coming together (prereqs, GPA, MCAT, LOR), but the extra curricular experience part of the application is where I need some guidance.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

It looks like you are taking 7-8 hours this semester. With a lower UG GPA in a non-science degree area you are going to have to show med schools that you can take heavy loads of science coursework with a very good outcome. They will look at you post-bac effort separately from your initial degree so you are not really trying to raise that 3.1, but come to the table with strong numbers from your current effort. I suggest the frontal attack by taking a second bachelors degree (50hrs +/-) in a science curriculum as a full-time student. This will leave no doubt in the mind of a med school about your academics. Along the way from this point you should begin volunteering in a medical, hopefully clinical, environment as well as volunteering in a community service realm. Hit these volunteerings consistently from now on to show that it is a way of your life to be out there helping others. Your hospital volunteering should put you into a position to be able to ask docs for shadowing experiences. Also show teamwork/leadership skills and if possible do some basic science lab research. These things, if done convincingly, will make you competitive for interviews. Being an EMT is a fine experience which does get you around patient care and may get you an "in" to more meaningful clinical volunteerism, but in itself is not volunteerism. Many schools are leaning toward admitting applicants who are guaranteed to complete the academics, but who are also helpmeets in the classroom to their classmates. The EC's help schools to evaluate some of what they are looking for over and above the academics.

 

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Hi y'all
Thank you thank you thank you for being here first... you guys are awesome. Anyway, my question is should i go to paramedic school next Fall of 2008 just in case I don't get into med school ( I am applying in Summer of 2008 for Fall 2009). Because if in case i don't get into med school, i can just start working as a paramedic and reapply again. Since I will be applying coming summer, the ad comm won't really see that or know that I am going to paramedic school unless i tell them (i mean the classes won't be on the transcript). So if i keep my mouth shut, they have no way of knowing. But my first question is if they find out, would they think of the Paramedic program negatively or positively? The second question is is it worth it? I mean it is really appealing in the sense that it is a very nice backup insurance plan. And the pay is good enough to support myself and have ends meet so that I don't have to stay with parents. But if i get into med school, i can't really work as a paramedic because of the rigorous nature of the med school curriculum. But what do you guys think? what should i do?

Here is my profile: graduated double major from Loyola in August 07. science GPA~3.8 non-science GPA ~3.8, MCAT 32 (13p 8v 11b). Have decent research experience, one published philosophy paper, hospital volunteer, soup kitchen, ESL tutor, various jobs in college, EMT, shadowing, applying to UIC state school.... bad stuff are 3Ws, 8 in verbal, thick foreign accent, maybe lower than avg interview skills, not going through the Loyola committee ( I missed the deadline its Dec3 2007 which i think is ridiculously early for 2009).


thank you all again !!

LostLost, I dont see you having too much difficulty and should garner several interviews in my estimation. Solid UG program, numbers are very competitive, and you have apparently done some of all of the EC's. Most schools will want to know the reason for the W's and why not the committee so good explanations (not the deadline was ridiculously early --- but more like: I missed the deadline. I was suprised that it 6 months prior to the start of the application season, etc.) You have time to practice interview skills. So now we're down to two, the 8 VR and accent. My guess is that they are related and that your family heritage places you in the US within a generation or two. Most med schools understand that those in such a situation will not score strong on the VR and will also have an accent. You need to show that you can easily communicate in spoken and written materials. Your personal statement and other activities in AMCAS allows you to show your written prowess and the interview shows the true verbal comms skills. Take yourself to task and place yourself in situations where you must communicate, maybe even join a speaking club (Toast Masters, etc) and do some formal presentations and public speaking. Also continue to do medical and community svc volunteerism. As for the paramedic, do it if you can. It will provide you with some useful skills with actual patients and procedure and some income along the way. Just remember it is quasi-medical experience and it isnt volunteering.

 

[REL]

For top 20 medical schools how screwed are your chances if you get a B+?

Shouldnt be a factor, especially if not a science course, and the rest of your application is strong.

 

[REL]

Is an SMP Program worth it for me??

2 years as a Music Major, 4 years as a Science Major, Current Post-bacc
BCMP: 3.29
cGPA: 3.3
Postbacc: 3.9
MCAT: 40S (15PS, 11VR, 14BS)

Hi REL, I've applied to two SMP programs U Cinnici and Georgetown just in case I don't get in this year. Even if I don't get in this year, would I be taking a large risk in NOT going to an SMP program next year if I applied super broadly? (State school, NYMC, etc...)
I have decent research (1.5 years), some clinical volunteering (current and will continue), and a fair amount of community service. In addition, I'm athletic and musical. My final years GPA (non-Post-bacc) was a 3.80 in super difficult 30 credits of science. Will this, in addition to my MCAT be enough to demonstrate my academic ability? This post has lost its annonymity by now, as there is only one person on SDN with the above stats. hah. Oh well. (My mdapps is also accessible for your perusal.)

I would like to think that you will be successful in getting some interviews in the Jan-Mar period. Certainly those schools who take the holistic approach should find your application more diverse than most. You have addressed the question of foundation by your MCAT scores in the science and the 30 additional hours (2-3 semesters?). The weaknesses may be limited clinical volunteerism and shadowing, both components of "why medicine." I would send some update letters showing what you have done most recently and stating your interest in their program. If you dont get in this year I would lean more toward continuing in a 1 year basic sciences MS venue of full-time work to show the continued academic prowess. Doing this would be a more positive activity with less risk of loss as your stock rises. Doing an SMP puts you in a position of all or nothing.....if you stumble you lose.

 

[REL]

Hi,
I'm currently a junior, applying to med schools this spring (June 2008) - long story short, I really sick/ill this past semester and my doctor told me to lighten my academic load but I didn't want a medical withdrawal to show up on my transcript so I decided to tough it out. I'm a music (piano perf.) and bio double major and I was taking 22 credit hours (including 4 science classes), so that didn't exactly expedite my recovery, and the end result was a D+ in Biochem I.

I've made A's in all my upper-level bio courses and I'm planning on taking 2 more next semester, before I apply for med school. My only worry is that I also made a C in organic chemistry lecture last year (again, this was due to an unforeseen circumstance - three of my close friends passed away that year), but I managed to make A's in all my other classes, even organic chem lab. I should have a 3.4 (at best) and a 33 (at least) on the MCAT, if all goes well this May... so is it worth retaking biochem during my senior year, after sending out apps? Or what exactly can I do to improve my chances of getting into med school? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks so much!

Convince me. Why medicine? A music degree is fine but I dont see consistency in sciences and I see lesser grades in the more difficult science course work. A 3.4 (at best) in sciences is good, but needs to be stronger to be competitive with the group that you are up against. I'd like to see the 33 MCAT (at least) as it would bolster your chances if the BS/PS components are strong. Presumably you have a consistent history of medical volunteerism, ditto for community service volunteerism, some physician shadowing, teamwork/leadership, maybe basic science bench research too. If the MCAT comes out strong and you have all of the other things, but some with a 3.4 SGPA and dont get in, I would recommend a full-time, 1 year MS in a basic science discipline. This would increase your chances the following year if all else is strong too.

 

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Dear SDN,
Let me give you some stats and then state my specific concern:
3.35gpa regular and science 34r mcat, 1 year research ended poorly (no reccomendation), 6 months work as a scribe (intensive paid position in ER shadowing physicians), 2 months as an EMT volunteer, extremely active in campus leadership roles not related to medicine.

Due to my low GPA, bad research experience (my PI was making a textbook and I became the graduate students' workhorse and quit after intense dislike), and late october applications, I am trying to come up with a plan for what to do for a year if I am rejected.

I need to be able to stay financially solvent, make myself more appealing to med schools, and actually learn something. I think MA's for Biology are 2 year deals, and it may be too late to apply for teaching assistantships. I'm not sure if any job in industry would be good. When contacting hopitals in state of residence (different from College), I am not sure what jobs I should be seeking. My advisor has suggested teaching biology for a year at private school, but I'm not sure that would be useful in improving my application for next year. In short, I'm not sure I'm considering all the options, and I don't know which faults I need to concentrate on, and deadlines are passing for other opportunities while replies from adcoms are not coming (not even for interview/rejection). What should I do for a year?!

You have some work to do to make your application competitive, and it will probably take at least one year to accomplish. There are some strong points with your MCAT being above average, and maybe some useful research experience if it was in the lab. If your GPA was low early with a strong finish the last 3-4 semesters, that too can be a positive. You have dabbled in areas around medicine so that experience is somewhat useful. While I hope that I am wrong all of this gives me a feeling of "filling in the blanks," not a real commitment. May it is due to the lack of organized guidance. So here is what med programs are looking for: those who show a commitment to medicine and people, the academics to ensure that both parties have the best chance for success. You can nibble around the edges and do these things on a part-time basis and MAYBE become competitive, or you can choose the frontal attack and answer all of the questions in a direct way. The direct way is the best if possible.
- Academics: If your BS academics havent been very strong over your junior and senior years you should enroll in a full-time basic science MS. There are some that are 1 year some 2 years with the second year being mainly research --- some of these will give a certificate if you complete the first year only. What you want to prove is that you can do very well in 2-3 full-time basic science area courses with top notch outcomes. Match that with your solid MCAT and a committe will be satisfied with your academics. Most programs will honor the MCAT score for 3 application cycles. Finally I do not recommend a MS program that is similar to a med school Med I curriculum. I am not convinced that you have the basic science foundation and these med school-like programs would be your final option after the basic science MS.
- Motivation: Most programs want to see a historical commitment to medicine and helping others. Show this by showing consistency in medical and community service volunteerism, add some physician shadowing (several full days in-the-life), teamwork/leadership, and maybe the basic bench research if needed. Your scribe and paid shadowing get you around medical events but dont show the quality of volunteerism. Several programs put the premium on volunteerism in both medical and community to see that you have a heart for others; giving without receiving pay or grades.

Maybe you do need to teach for a year or two to help you determine your direction, work on the other qualities for an application, and resolve possible cash flow if you are unwilling to take out school loans for the MS degree.

 

[Doodledog]

Hi Tildy,

I am a member of SDN. To introduce myself, I am in my second year at a private university very well-known for its strong premed program, studying premed in hopes of becoming an infectious disease doctor or psychiatrist one day.

I want to ask you a question, if you have the time to answer. It is about my GPA, which I am now very worried about. I took 19 units both semesters last year, getting a 3.78 (this includes intro sciences and physics). I thought that was a competitive GPA and because I kept up with my schoolwork easily last year, I decided to take 21 units this year (this includes research in the lab, which I spend about 15 hours a week in). Then something very bad happened: I got all B's in basically all of my classes, including Orgo I and Genetics. I even got a B+ in psychology. My GPA is falling to a 3.55; my science GPA is about a 3.45. Needless to say I have been angry at myself for having so much confidence in my academic ability and thus taking a full courseload.


May I know what you think about my chances of still getting into a top 20 medical school? I know I have the ability to do well in my classes, but this semester was overwhelming and tiring for me. My parents are very supportive and trust me to do well and I am just feeling lost and angry at myself right now. What do you advise someone in my position to do, in terms of raising my GPA? More importantly, how will med school adcoms view this very very bad semester? Any advice would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you so much and have a good holiday!

-MedicineforLife

Infectious disease doctor or psychiatrist? That's certainly an unusual combination of interests!

Regardless, I think you need to start by reevaluating what your goals are. Why do you want to go to a top 20 school? Several medical schools with outstanding training in the areas you are interested in are not top 20 schools (assuming you mean the USNWR rankings which of course aren't that useful, right?). Setting artificial standards that have no meaning and then becoming angry about not meeting them isn't a very fun way to go through college.

Of course you can get into medical school in the US with a 3.5 GPA and a good MCAT score. Med schools would hardly see a semester with a bunch of B's as some fatal flaw. But your post suggests that you have to rethink some basic goals, slow down a bit in your academic life and perhaps not be so angry at yourself for not being perfect. Don't forget to take time to shadow, volunteer and in general be sure about medicine and contribute to society along the way to applying. It's not all about GPA and MCAT's either.

Good luck and happy new year to you

 

[Doodledog]

I'm pre-med but am shadowing a DDS at his practice in NYC. In addition to shadowing clinical visits I've been in the OR for an orthognathic prodcedure. Despite not being interested in becoming a DDS, will admissions look favorable upon this experience? It's certainly been eye-opening to me as I've been able to witness all aspects of medicine during this time.

I can't speak for anyone else, but it wouldn't bother me if someone had shadowed a dentist and I would consider it a positive. Don't be surprised if you are asked "why did you shadlow a dentist"? and asked "How did you decide on medicine instead of dentistry?". Normally, we don't ask why you chose medicine compared to any other specific field, but if someone has shadowed a specific caregiver in another area, it is a reasonable question.

 

[Doodledog]

As I am getting ready to apply to med school this summer, I have tried to get in contact with certain schools that I am interested in. I have always asked if I could come in and speak to admissions counselor face to face. Most schools have been very accomodating to this, but others have seemed to be a little taken back by me being so forward as to request a meeting. To be fair, when I call or write it usually seems like I am communicating with the department secretary, who maybe does not fully understand just how competative and difficult the application process can be. My question is, am I being inappropriate asking to come in and speak with someone? I have always found it beneficial to meet someone in person and put a face with my future application. Could this be interpreted as inappropriate or "kissing up" by some schools?

Medical schools may get 5000-10000 applications/year. Most admissions committee members have other full-time responsibilities so these type of meetings, presumably well in advance of an actual application, fall to the deans and assistant deans of admissions. Given that there may only be 2-4 such people, that would be a lot of meetings. Not all schools may feel like this is the best use of a dean's time.

Other schools may be concerned that a face-face meeting, in which someone who has not yet applied to a school discusses their application with a dean is not appropriate, since it is not something that most applicants to a given school could reasonably do. You might disagree with this, but a school may not wish to make this opportunity available to some applicants when others don't have this ability. In general, this is less likely to be a concern with regard to a dean, but might be so with a general adcom member. Some schools may have guidelines indicating that adcom members who previously know or have met with an applicant cannot be involved in the admissions decision or at least must make it clear to the committee that they have previous knowledge of the applicant.

Your request would not likely be seen as inappropriate or cause any particular upset to the faculty. Pushing the issue after being told "no" might be. I think most secretaries working for adcom members are aware that the admissions process is competitive and are agreeing or not agreeing to the meeting based on policy.

 

[REL]

Hi all, I'm a senior Molecular Biology/German Studies double major at Pomona College. I was wondering what I can be doing to better my application. My overall GPA is 3.41, with a 3.06 in the Sciences and a 3.76 non-science. I understand that this is a very weak point. The low GPA is mainly due to a C in Calc II and a (probable) C+ in physics.

I have not yet taken the MCAT, but the practice tests I have taken project a score of 42-43. I have worked in a microbiology research lab for one year and *may* be published shortly. Next semester I will be volunteering in the ER of a local hospital for 10 hours per week. For the previous three years I have worked as an Open Water Scuba Instructor, a 25-30 hour per week job.

If all goes according to plan, I will be working in a German microbiological research lab next year on a Fulbright scholarship. What should I be doing this summer to improve my application? How much will the C's hurt my application? Thanks.

Thank you for your inquiry. I wish you well on the MCAT, a 40+ score is a remarkable score if you can pull if off. Often it is seen as a 1-time exam and will probably not completely counter a marginal SGPA in the low 3's. Committees will look to see a solid and consistent science academic record, if you had a weaker freshman year and have built strongly in a positive direction your application may be considered stronger. If you did well in Calc I, and not so well in Calc II, take Calc III (or an equivalent upper math) and do well. Ditto for your gaffe in Physics I, take Physics II and do very well. These two things will help a committee understand your academics. It appears that those graduating from CA schools that do get into med programs, have between a 3.5-3.65 SGPA with a 30-32 MCAT. I would recommend looking around for a 1 year MS in a basic science area, doing full time academic work and getting very solid grades to convince a committee that you are competitive with the group academically in the sciences.

Even with a stronger academic record a committee might question your commitment to becoming an MD. You seem to have some good research but based on the little that you have provided, I dont really see the commitment to medicine or humanism over a consistent period. If your initial clinical volunteering is the ER you have scheduled, I would question your motivation. Also hopefully you have a consistent history of community service volunteerism, some physician shadowing, and teamwork/leadership skills. Consistency in all of these things are highly desired by most MD programs are common in the candidates that they interview. If you do have these experiences then you will be in a stronger position, but still will probably need to show the 2-3 semesters of solid MS work. My initial impression is that might be very well suited to a very productive PhD research career with your past as well as the Fulbright experience in the future.

 

[REL]

Dear SDN,

Thanks so much for this thread. I am currently a senior at UC Berkeley and looking to apply for class '09. Here are my stats: cGPA: 3.29, BCPM 3.19,
MCAT: 32T (V11B11P10), EC: 2 years volunteering at a hospital, teaching an undergrad lab. course, HepC research, Katrina relief volunteer work, work as an MA, teaching anatomy to elementary school kids, other work, LORs: strong

I'm well aware that my GPA is weak due mostly to unit overload. One of my semesters is particularly weak due to personal crises. I can raise my BCPM to about 3.3 with my last semester of coursework. Would it be worth it to retake my MCAT before applying? I feel that I should be able to get 35+ and I didn't the first time around because I was busy working as an MA. I am taking a year off in-between so I am planning on using that time to do some more research.

I know that I am not competitive for a top tier medical school, but I just want to be able to get into one. Any advice on how to improve my application would be appreciated. I'd be willing to attend a post-bacc. program to boost the low GPA, but I'd rather go straight to med school. Thanks!

Over a recent 3-year period UC-Berkley placed almost 900 undergrads into a MD program; their averages were 32.1 MCAT, 3.5 BPCM, 3.6 cGPA. If you had a single bad semester and can provide and explanation your app may be stronger. A weak start and strong finish at 3.3 isnt so bad, you just not be in the initial cadres interviewed until they "discover" you by looking deeper into the actual total application. Continue with the med motivation (volunteerism, some shadowing) and humanism (comm svc vol), show teamwork/leadership, etc. If all of this is true you would probably enjoy some second-half action in the interview rounds.

If your academics arent consistently good at the end, look for a 1 year MS in a basic science area, take it full-time and do well to show a committee that your academics are competitive. Send transcripts at the end of your fall term to help schools see your commitment. It might be enough to get you a later interview.

 

[REL]

Hello

Thank you in advance for your advice. I am currently a junior in psychology with a gpa of 3.45 and bcpm ~ 3.6. I am taking all of my physics, chem and biology now (starting them late b/c I changed majors). By spring my ogpa should be about a 3.57 and bcpm much higher if my current upward trend continues. I have been scoring about a 35/36 on MCAT practice, and plan on doing that well in the spring. I've been active in my community (worked 1 year for Americorps teaching language and literacy to high risk children, worked on and organized Hurricane Katrina book drive, fed homeless, volunteered at Ronald McDonald House, involved in UNICEF, and volunteered through my sorority). By spring, I'll have been working on a heart disease research project for 1 year, and I also hold a leadership position in my sorority. This winter I am going to begin volunteering and shadowing, and in late spring I am traveling with a group of doctors to Vietnam to observe and assist with medical treatment for disadvantaged people. I also have clinical experience as I used to be a nursing student. My concern is that it looks like I am "padding" my application as I am starting the volunteer work and shadowing so late in the game (as well as research). I am also concerned that my gpa is not competitive enough. I am not sure if it is worth it to apply this year, although I am considering it. What can I do to strengthen my application, and prevent it from looking like I am just loading up now that I'm close to application time?

Thank you for your inquiry. It would appear that you would be a competitive applicant to many MD programs if you are able to increase your BPCM and bring a mid-30's MCAT as you note. You will have to be convincing regarding your change of decision and that the resulting things you have recently begun to do is not padding, but sincere desire based on your motivation toward medicine. AMCAS will compute your BPCM GPA based on all courses taken from the biology, physics, chemistry, and math departmental courses that you have taken. As such it would appear that GPA will be highly influenced by the courses that you have yet to take. Show a committee a good strong 2-3 semesters of full-time work with good outcomes --- it will give your chances for an interview a boost.

 

[REL]

I don't think that I've ever heard of this kind of program. What is it?

I can definitely see that. Not to mention the 50K of extra potential debt.

Some schools have a 1 year, full-time MS in a basic science area which helps applicants repair their academics with an otherwise strong application. More often than not, these courses are available a schools which also have a medical program. For example there is one school in Florida which has a 1 year MS in molecular medicine, anatomy, or pharmacology which is primarily taught and administered by their COM.

 

[REL]

Just a quick question:

How much a does a strong upward trend offset a poor start? For instance say if someone (I wonder who) finished their freshman year with a 3.2 but finished their sophomore and junior years with near a 4.0. How is that viewed? Is the freshman year taken in the context of the applicant adjusting to school?

I guess my general question is, how large of a role does freshman year play.

You can recover from a poor freshman year as far as most programs are concerned. Those programs that REALLY do a holistic review of your entire application would be very happy to provide you with an interview opportunity in a situation that you present providing you have also taken care of the other program desires in the extra-curricular realm and bring at least an average MCAT. Those programs that are obsessed with numbers might hesitate.

 

[REL]

I will graduate this spring with bachelor degrees in Music and German. I won't be able to finish my med school prerequisites before I graduate. Since I'll need a year more of classes, plus a second year to apply, I'm considering pursuing a bachelor's degree in Biology. I really enjoy biology, and would like to feed my curiosity beyond intro courses; additionally, I'd like to apply to research-oriented programs, and feel like the degree could better prepare me.

My question: will three bachelor degrees make me look like a degree-chaser, (especially since I'm interested in MD/MS programs, which would leave me with five degrees) and have a negative impact on my applications? Would my time be better spent working in a lab or something?

Sorry for such an anal question, but I'm really not sure which route to take. Thanks for your time!

Your bachelor's degree years are years that you can use to follow-up your interests and prepare for your future. From what I can tell you are completing your initial college experience and have completed the requirements for two separate degrees. This happens often. If medicine is you career goal, enter into a "second" bachelors degree period where you will complete 50-60 hours of science course work. This will be useful to an admissions committee because they can see how you do in several semesters fo full-time science semesters and also provide you with the foundation you need for the MCAT. Being succesful in getting an interview for medical school includes more than academics so make sure you show a consistent motivation for medicine, humanism, teamwork/leadership, some physician shadowing, and also look into some basic science research if that is of interest to you. Stay close to your premed advising office at the school that you attend.

 

[REL]

My question is about the specifics of the biology pre-req's for most schools. I go to a liberal arts college that doesn't really offer the traditional General Biology 1 and 2. We instead offer Principles of Organismal Biology and Principles of Cellular Biology. As a biochemistry major, I was not required to take the Organismal class, so I only took Principles of Cellular Biology. I then took Genetics the next year, and I'm currently in a Biochemistry/Molecular Biology two semester sequence. Is this sufficient to meet the biology requirements for most schools? My advisor said it was, but from reading posts here on SDN, I've become worried (as I planned on applying starting this summer). Here are the course descriptions for Organismal and Cellular Bio.

Principles of Organismal Biology (I did not take this course)
An introduction to the fundamental principles and concepts of organismal biology. Topics include: a phylogenetic survey of the Kingdoms with emphasis on Plantae and Animalia; a review of Mendelian genetics; and an introduction to the evolution of living organisms through natural selection. Laboratory work supplements and expands lecture topics as well as provides an introduction to scientific observation, use of the microscope, collection and analysis of data, and construction of laboratory reports.

Principles of Cellular Biology (I took this course)
An introduction to the fundamental principles and concepts of cellular biology. Topics include cellular ultrastructure and physiology; basic biochemistry of the cell; bioenergetics; photosynthesis; and nuclear and cell division. Laboratory work supplements and expands lecture topics, and deals with cellular organization and function as well as biochemical and physiological processes. An emphasis is placed on collection, analysis, and presentation of data.


My genetics course covered what your standard genetics course covers (Mendelian genetics, transcription, replication, translation, etc. and so on). So have I covered the required biology requirements? Or am I going to have to take the Organismal course? If I do have to take the Organismal course, can I go ahead and apply this summer and take it next fall (the only time it is offered)? I'm in a bit of a bind here, so any help/advice you have would be great! Sorry for the large post. Thanks!

You are probably fine with the course work that you have taken in biology. Do two things to be sure --- 1) contact your schools of interest and ask, 2) provide a strong score on the MCAT in biological sciences.