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Medical School in France

Discussion in 'Europe' started by osteoclast94, 06.10.08.

  1. osteoclast94

    osteoclast94

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    I've been thinking about trying to go to medical school in France but after reading threads about this subject and international medical school in general, am unsure about doing so. I guess I'd like to go to France because it would be cheaper and I had a good experience studying abroad there for a year (the cycling, especially, was excellent). Getting a chance to live there again for a several years would be a dream.

    The question is whether it would be worth going there given that it seems that I would face a stigma should I try to come back to the US and practice. Also, since I will have my undergraduate degree by the time I would apply/be accepted (barring some catastrophic event), is it really worth more or less starting over when I attend a French university (especially with the extreme competition that occurs in the first year)?

    Additionally, would it be better to try and complete my doctor training abroad or try and do some sort of split (i.e.; medical school in the US/France, then residency in France/US)? Is that even pragmatic? Could I even just do one or two years in a given country and the rest somewhere else?

    Thank you for your help.
  2. maserati

    maserati

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    hey, in the same boat as you. looking into jetting to France for med school.

    I've read that it costs $150 euro !? Which is still super expensive.

    Do you know if it's free for Quebec residents, from Canada?
  3. shreypete

    shreypete

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    Studying medicine in France is no joke. It's medical schools are first of all uber-competitive to get into. And it's a pyramid system...so you start of with tons of students and they keep getting weeded out, one by one. At the end of the year, the students take an exam called the "concours" which is just a nightmare....very few students make it every year......
  4. MSHell

    MSHell Deranged User

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    €150 is super cheap (!!!), less than anywhere in Canada, including Quebec residents studying in Quebec.

    Also, everyone pays the same price in France, but competition is fierce. As they say: "Many are called, few are chosen."
  5. julien

    julien

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    Also, everyone pays the same price in France, but competition is fierce. As they say: "Many are called, few are chosen."[/quote]


    It is sometimes even cheaper. For example I come from a family which has not too much money), so the State supports almost all of my tuition. In fact I pay 4.30 euros per annum.
    But competition is tough in the first year. When I was in the first year, we were only 1400 for 180 admitted to second year. This varies according to medical schools, but in general 10% to 15% are admitted to second year.
  6. maserati

    maserati

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    150 THOUSAND euro.





    I understand that it is competitive. Still, could you guys help me by providing me with more info regarding admissions / tuition / application etc. ???
  7. MSHell

    MSHell Deranged User

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    €150/yr. NOT €150 000/yr!!

    If you're living outside of France, you need to apply via the French embassy in your country. They will have all the info.
  8. maserati

    maserati

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    HA! MSHEll, we're having this 150 / 150 000 number miscommunication.

    I believe it's actually my fault.



    I know that most international medical schools would cost you more than $150,000, ( ie. UK/Caribbean) that's the original of that number.

    I am glad to see that France is only 150.

    And I hope that it will be even cheaper for Quebec students studying in France.


    I wanted to clarify that.







    Now, French Embassy for med school application? Really?

    QUESTION 1)

    Also, do you guys know if those admitted foreign students, who already have a science undergraduate degree, would also spend their first year in the classroom with those fresh-out-of-high-school-france students, studying pure-sciences?

    Or would the school simply ask you to take their concours / first-year final exams and if you score top 10-20% then you'll be admitted directly into second year?


    QUESTION 2)

    Do you think students with a science-undergrad would be at an advantage over recent high school students, not mentioning maturity / study habit, because these first year pure sciences courses would be more or less a review for us? Non?

    Or do they incorporate north american first year courses into final year highschool?



    Thanks for your help guys.
    Cheers
    Mas
  9. MSHell

    MSHell Deranged User

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    You will have to pay the same price as French students, but at €150, or thereabouts, it's not much. I know that there is reciprocity concerning healthcare, i.e. the RAMQ will reimburse your healthcare expenses while you are studying abroad, in the city you are studying, during the academic year.

    You will have to register in 1st year and be subjected to the concours.

    The french bac (science branch) is equivalent to 1st year uni science courses or cegep science course. I don't think you can get it right after any high school in North America, unless you have the Bac Francais, or Bac International. You need some further education. That said, having studied at cegep/uni gives you no academic advantages except study habits you may have acquired along the way.

    You do have to apply thru a french embassy. If you prove sufficient schooling in french, you will be exempt from the french test. I believe you are allowed 3 choices of schools in France, only one of which can be in Paris.

    I don't go to school in France, but I'm familiar with some things. It's best to contact the embassy yourself
  10. maserati

    maserati

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    Thanks MSHell, again, for the response.

    Again, I think I miscommunicated my point regarding the undergrad vs. highschool.

    I graduated from McGill University, science undergrad.

    I am assuming that the material presented in the 1st year french med school concours exam would be the same science courses that I took in first and second year of my science undergrad.

    Therefore, I would have an advantage, because it would be a review for me, whereas the first year french med students, who just graduated from highschool, will be learning these science courses for the first time.
  11. MSHell

    MSHell Deranged User

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    Not necessarily. They do delve into the medical sciences too, as the first year is a common year for med, dent, midwifery, kinesiology, vet...

    For more comprehensive info on med ed in France, a good start is http://www.remede.org/.
  12. maserati

    maserati

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    I read over the first year curriculum for different med schools in France.

    And it is true that it goes muuuuuch deeper than general pure sciences.
    I graduated from human physiology / biomedical sciences and even I didn't know everything in that curriculum. However, I do feel that about 75% of it will be a review for me.
  13. MSHell

    MSHell Deranged User

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    In that case I think you'd be a step ahead. But it's still competitive. I was just assuming that in addition to gen chem, orgo, bio and physics you did some more advanced versions of these.
  14. mdmdt

    mdmdt

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    I realize this is an older thread but I was wondering who exactly I should contact at the French embassy? I'm looking at their website and nothing's jumping out at me...
  15. lazy_eye

    lazy_eye Junior Member

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    Hi I have urrently begun my residency training in Pediatrics here in Manila. Anybody here who can advise me how to go and apply for residency training in France? I am currently in First year Pediatrics residency and knowledgable in the French Language.Thanks
  16. cellneuro23

    cellneuro23

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    Hey everyone,

    I am originally from France (now living in the US) and am interested in applying to a few medical schools in France. After doing some thinking, however, I am starting to believe that applying to med school in France isn't a great idea. Here's why:

    Although it is significantly cheaper to go to medical school in France (and you'll receive an excellent education), it is not an easy thing to do. My cousin just went through med school in Nice... and even though she's a French native (no language barrier) and is an extremely hard worker (I have NEVER met someone who works harder than her), it was clear that it was a very, very difficult process because of the concours. In her case, the med school began with several thousand students. After the first year of concours, the number of students was greatly reduced (usually less than 20% continue onto second year med school). After a couple of years, she had to take the main concours. How you preform on that exam determines whether or not you can graduate and/or what specialty you will be in. The top 40 students could go into surgery, students who finished 41-80 could go into dentistry, students who finished 81-120 could go into physical therapy, and everyone else had to either 1.) drop out or 2.) retake a full year of school, then try the exam again (if you don't land in the top 120 the second time around, you have to drop out... keep in mind there are hundreds of people taking this exam, so it's definitely not easy to land a top spot).

    My cousin wanted to be a cardiologist, but since she landed in the 41-80 category, she had to go into dentistry (there are people who swap... e.g someone who placed into surgery can swap with someone who placed in dentistry, but that is rare... most of the swapping happens between dentistry and PT). She had the option of retaking a year of school, then retaking the exam, but she decided against it, because if she were to not place in the top 120 the second time around, she could not continue in medicine. Fortunately, she ended liking dentistry and is now enjoying a successful career in oral surgery.

    I don't mean to be overly negative about the concours (afterall, it produces excellent doctors), but it's definitely something to consider. If you go to a US medical school, there is a high probablity that you will graduate with an MD and you will be pretty much free to chose what specialty you will be in. If you go to a French medical school, not only is there a slim chance that you will graduate, but you also have little control over what field of medicine (surgery, PT, or dentistry) you will go into. Another thing to consider is that medical students in France do most of their pre-med in medical school.

    If you don't want to go through the concours, but you still want to go to France, you can get your MD degree in the US (or someplace else in the EU), then apply to have your degree recognized in France so you can practice there. :) I wish you all the best of luck! Please feel free to ask me any questions! :)
    Last edited: 02.23.09
  17. nymphnode

    nymphnode

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    for those who want nitty gritty details about what it was like going through 1st year med school in france, i posted my experience as an american here:

    http://riviera.angloinfo.com/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=153057

    i don't want to discourage people from doing it, but just have a good idea of what you are getting yourself into, how to be prepared (unlike me)....to a great extent as a foreigner, you will not have the same support network as the french students, and you will need to go through a very trying year alone. very few people offer advice, and so basically i stumbled by way getting only tidbits of info here and there when it was too late.
    i wish anybody who decides to do it lots of luck!
  18. disel

    disel

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    please i would like to know if there are medical universities in france where they teach in english?
  19. Dexterin

    Dexterin French Medecine Student

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    Hi !

    I'm french, and medecine student in France (University of Brest).

    I can tell you : there's no university in France teaching in english... only in french !

    Also, when you say the price is 150 euros per year, you are right. BUT... it's not the price of your year of studying (wich is free), but your cotisation to the social security (global health insurance) for the year. :luck:

    If you want to be a french medecine student, you have to pass an extremely hard exam (only in french), "le concours".

    What is it ?
    It's an exam at the end of the first year where there's a limited number of places per university. This number, call "le numerus clausus" is different between the universities (the number is set by the governement), but of course, the number of candidate is high in the university where the numerus clausus is high. You can estimate the ratio NC/candidate from 10 to 15%, it depends of the university. In small towns it's near 15%. In big cities (as Paris) it's around 10%.

    That means, only 10 to 15% of the student passing the exam have the right to register in second year of Medecine, in the university where they pass "le concours".

    And also, you can only pass the "concours" only twice. And when i say twice, it means twice in all university. If you miss the "concours" twice in Paris, you are not allowed to try in Marseilles or another city, it's done, it's finish for you.

    But, if you have the courage to work hard and be in the lucky laureate of the "concours", you can continue studying medecine (for free...) to the end of you diploma (6 year of university + 3/4 year of internate)

    In France, to be a doctor you have to be a very very hard worker to be on the 10/15% first at the "concours", just be the best, in fact.
    You can be very rich, you can be the son of the mayor, if you are not intellgent and hard worker, no way for you to be a doctor.

    But something great : you know very fast (only 1 or 2 year after high school) if you'll be a doctor, or not !
    (but to know what kind or doctor you'll be, it's another story, another "concours" for choosing what intern you'll be, just before starting your internate)

    ++

    Antoine

    PS : sorry for my the mistakes, my "english" is not perfect ! ;-)
    Last edited: 11.22.09
  20. bambi

    bambi Junior Member

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    Med school science is very different to undergrad science. I had never touched the vast majority of pre-clinical med during my 1st degree.
  21. Moretta1945

    Moretta1945

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    Hi everyone
    I'm an Iranian. I study medicine in Tehran University, it's the best university of Iran, but I wanna study and live in France. I'm passing my 5th session here. I don't know how I can join the universities of France, even I don't know how the life is there. What do you suggest me to do?
    Last edited: 12.10.09
  22. Dexterin

    Dexterin French Medecine Student

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    2 possibilities :

    1) Starting from zero your medecine studies, with the selection of the first year (le concours), as a french student of 18 yo freshly outgoing from high school.
    That's means you lost your 5 years of studing in Iran... and in case you pass the first year exam (wich is very hard, if you don't speak french), and you restart for 9-10 years of studing.

    2) Come in France when you'll be a Dr in Iran. You will have to validate your iranian diploma by
    - doing the first year of Médecine in France (still "le concours" !)
    - then you go directly in 6th year and you do another selection... the internate !
    - then you do your internate (function of your rank at the exam) during 3 to 4 years
    - then you'll have a french doctorate
  23. Moretta1945

    Moretta1945

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    I prefer to choose the choise number 2! Tnx
  24. tsdjr89

    tsdjr89

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    Hello, I wanted to comment on the post about the severity of "le concours" at the end of the first year of medical school in France. I am an American thinking of going to France to study medicine and know full well of the test, however, how are classes normally like during the year? Is there any way to find a private tutor, or is there some studying technique that is extremely helpful for you as a student? This is my main concern about going the medical schools there...I heard that students in the back of the classroom are loud and obnoxious. Any information regarding life in the classroom and outside would be beneficial! Thanks!
  25. Dexterin

    Dexterin French Medecine Student

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    It depends of the university.

    In some universities, the P1² (the ones who tried once the concours and failed) are making a lot of noise to stop the P1 (the ones who are new in first year) to take notes, etc.

    In some universities (where it's impossible to have an amphitearium for 1500 students), there are 2 amphis of 750 places. One with the teacher, the other with a realtime video of the teacher. Usually in the video-room, there's a lot of noise !

    In the city of Grenoble, they found another solution : no amphis !
    In septembre they gave you a CD-ROM with all the lessons... and you learn them alone at home ! If you have questions, you can come at the universities to ask. The case of Grenoble is special : they have no amphi enought big for all the student of first year. By chance, it's the only city like that...

    I propose for you to visit http://www.e-carabin.net/
    wich is the french forum for french med student... where you will be able to ask all you questions about the PCEM1 in the differents cities.

    ++

    Dexterin
  26. tsdjr89

    tsdjr89

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    oh Merci, merci...this is most beneficial to me! I am particularly interested in L'Universite de Montpellier 1, so that is why I asked. I hope they are not as noisy as you have mentioned...but I will look into the website you gave me. Thanks again!
  27. bahar569

    bahar569

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    Hi everybody !
    I'm graduated from TUMS - Iran and see post 22 and 23 but I don't understand ! if we want to study and live in france and validate our iranian medical certificat in france we miss 5 year ?!
    Last edited: 01.01.10
  28. astm1834

    astm1834

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    Hi, geat to see your answers, :thumbup:

    but something stranges to me..!!

    There is a booklet on CampusFrance ,

    in English ,
    in French

    that says :

    then its much better than restarting for next 9-10 years?isnt it.
  29. hdoc

    hdoc

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    im a pre-medical student in pakistan...i just recently finished my alevels.here..i was wondering if there was any international medical schools in france which teach in english??some help would be really great...
  30. hdoc

    hdoc

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    im a pre-medical student in pakistan...i just recently finished my alevels.here..i was wondering if there was any international medical schools in france which teach in english??some help would be really great...
  31. dr zainab

    dr zainab

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    hi how r u... i m dr zainab from pakistan ,, i m intented to come to france and live there for the rest of my life.. i have completed my mbbs from pakistan.. now wht exam woluld i m suppose to clear there and what i will require to do.. i want to be a cardiologist.. and also want to know about doing phd genetics... can u please guide me?
  32. dr zainab

    dr zainab

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    hi
    hi how r u... i m dr zainab from pakistan ,, i m intented to come to france and live there for the rest of my life.. i have completed my mbbs from pakistan.. now wht exam woluld i m suppose to clear there and what i will require to do.. i want to be a cardiologist.. and also want to know about doing phd genetics... can u please guide me?
  33. Olympias

    Olympias

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    @ astm1834 : I did my 1st year of med school in France (and I am french and quite familiar with the whole thing) and honestly I have NEVER seen any international med school student start from where they left in France (and I have friend in pratically every year in MS).
    When you are a graduate international doctor you have to go through PCEM1 (1st year), succeed and then through DCEM4 (6th y ear with the ENC) succeed and then I don't know if you start an internship or if you can work directly.
    Call the "scolarité" or International desk of the Uni you are interested in and they will tell you but I doubt you will be able to get into it this easily..

    @ hdoc : There are no international school in France. Everything is taught in French. and if you are planning on studying there be VERY careful when choosing your universitied (I went to Toulouse.. they take at the end of the 1st year 119 people for 1300 applicants, not even 10%)

    @ dr zainab : Steps to become a cardiologist :
    1) Speak french (seriously no matter what people say, french universities aren't that great with foreigner and french student in medecine definitely not helpful)
    2) select universities (look closely at the NC = numerus clausus = number of applicant taken at the end of the 1st year)
    3) be taken somewhere
    4) Go through PCEM1 (1st year)
    5) go through 2nd to 6th year
    6) Be ranked high enough to be able to choose "spe med" (medical specialities?) because cardio is really tough.. I think you must be in the 500 first over roughly 8000 people (it's a national exam but demanding on how well you did you get to choose your speciality and city...if you did bad you have to either retake the exam or either take what is left :( )
    7) completed the 5 years something of "internat"
    8) pass an thesis (?)
    9) you are done ! (finally lol)

    Best of luck everyone :)
    Last edited: 04.06.10
  34. jarvis53

    jarvis53

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    hi guys..


    i m doin my internship in India.i lik 2 go abroad for my post graduation.all ma frnz who wanna go abroad they always select US..but i don hav any idea about US.. Wat about UK n france? i want some advice for tis n want to know wats d major diff between these countries for gettin post graduation..?


    thank u....
  35. shreypete

    shreypete

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    Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to get in as a non-EU citizen and a non-EU grad.
  36. panda532

    panda532

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    I think this has already been asked but anyway: if I were to get a bachelor's degree from the U.S in bio meaning I did 4yrs of undergrad and then apply to a French med school would I just do the first year and hopefully pass the concours then they decide if I can skip a couple grades depending on what courses I have taken or do I absolutely HAVE to take all the courses even if they are repeats? I really hope they don't erase my 4yrs of hard work and $$ :(.
  37. panda532

    panda532

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    I would just like to add on something else (sorry for the double post:oops:). Once you finish your 3-4yr residency do you also have to do additional training if you wanted to go into a specialty lets say cardiology or is that included in the residency. Thanks!
  38. drsandy

    drsandy

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    Hi,
    I am an indian citizen and have comepleted my dermatology training in India, and curently work there as a pvt consultant. My husband and me will be relocating to France in january as he is persuing his mba from INSEAD.. what are the chances of my getting a job in France, how do i go about it? any licensing exmas to write...What is the pay scale like in terms of USD? Is the residency degree from france recognised in other countries?
  39. Slechts1Leven

    Slechts1Leven

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    Are French universities still accepting non eu students. Does the French government give scholarship or do they give loans to all non eu members?

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