Medical students to don chef jackets

[MT Headed]

"For part of each day, first-year students at Tulane University School of Medicine will swap their lab coats for chefs’ jackets. They’ll change their outerwear because they’ll be heading into the kitchen in a new program that’s the first of its kind in an American medical school. This initiative, in which Tulane is working with a culinary school, is designed to make doctors aware of the importance of diet by showing them how to prepare the food they tell patients they should eat.

“Most doctors like me know nothing about nutrition,” said Dr. Benjamin Sachs, the medical school’s dean. “We lecture our patients to lose weight, and we have no idea how to prepare food. This is designed to teach future doctors about nutrition through culinary science.” "

Full article here - http://www.nola.com/health/index.ssf/2012/07/tulane_university_medical_stud.html

I've seen arguments back and forth on SDN about whether medical students ought to learn more about nutrition, since this topic is so intimately tied to health. Our arguments usually fall along the lines of "medical education woefully underprepares students on this fundamental health topic" vs. "this is the job of dietitians, not physicians".

Now that a medical school is incorporating both Nutritional Knowledge (NK) and Nutritional Skills (NS) into the curriculum, what do you think? Is exchanging a white coat for a white apron going to produce a better chef resident? Or is Food Based Learning (FBL) just another obstacle that medical schools like to insert between a medical student and an efficient medical education? Should USDA Grades be a part of Preclinical Grades?

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[Parklife]

http://thebrandbuilder.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/gordon-01.jpg

vs

http://www.trabaris.com/info/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/dr-house.jpg

I love this.

 

[primadonna22274]

I like it as an elective though. Not everyone has an aptitude for cooking.

 

[Guillemot]

Lets add some more stupid **** into the medical school curriculum.

 

[celkon]

All doctors/doctors in training should already have healthy eatting and living as part of there lifestyle. Really sad when they invite 260lb+ dudes to become medical students in the first place. Obvious unhealthy is unhealthy.

Its horrific when I watch a doctor trying to treat depression and ignores the fact that the patient is 50-60lbs over weight. Especially when its child/teenage. Makes me rage so hard.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Lets add some more stupid **** into the medical school curriculum.

I agree, this is a huge time waste. People who want to teach patients about diets will... those who don't... wont. Going to a kitchen isn't going to help.

All doctors/doctors in training should already have healthy eatting and living as part of there lifestyle. Really sad when they invite 260lb+ dudes to become medical students in the first place. Obvious unhealthy is unhealthy.

We should but we're all people. You look at many surgeons in your schools surgery department? Probably not the healthiest bunch around.

 

[circulus vitios]

Putting that $77,000 a year cost of attendance to good use, I see.

 

[Socrates25]

This is why I laugh when others say that med school training is going to be shortened. The academic elite liberals who run medicine in ivory towers would never stand for that because as far as they're concerned there's always some BS feelgood liberal indoctrination that needs to be added.

How can you shorten med school when its an absolute necessity to teach students about racial diversity, ethnic diversity, socioeconomic diversity, general sociology, and a little cooking thrown in for good measure?

 

[startswithb]

This is why I laugh when others say that med school training is going to be shortened. The academic elite liberals who run medicine in ivory towers would never stand for that because as far as they're concerned there's always some BS feelgood liberal indoctrination that needs to be added.

How can you shorten med school when its an absolute necessity to teach students about racial diversity, ethnic diversity, socioeconomic diversity, general sociology, and a little cooking thrown in for good measure?

Funny, because my school had a gay and lesbian day AND made us all cook meals based on different diets, including vegan. .. .. ..

 

[hiyaman]

That sounds awesome. I would love to spend some school time learning how to cook.

 

[Siggy]

All doctors/doctors in training should already have healthy eatting and living as part of there lifestyle. Really sad when they invite 260lb+ dudes to become medical students in the first place. Obvious unhealthy is unhealthy.

Its horrific when I watch a doctor trying to treat depression and ignores the fact that the patient is 50-60lbs over weight. Especially when its child/teenage. Makes me rage so hard.

We also shouldn't allow people who binge drink (defined as 5 drinks within 2 hours for men, 4 for women) or smoke. After all, how can we lecture alcoholics to stop drinking when we allow people who obviously drink too much or lecture people who smoke when we let people who smoke into medical school?

Oh, right, it's ok to hate the fatties, but not the boozers or smokers. Especially when it interferes with the after exam shenanigans.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I feel a reality TV idea coming on....

 

[neelyboy]

I love it. That's one of my worries as I start medical school, whether or not I will just be treating people and how often I'll be able to PREVENT diseases or disorders.

 

[Smokemont]

I love it. That's one of my worries as I start medical school, whether or not I will just be treating people and how often I'll be able to PREVENT diseases or disorders.

You will just be treating people.

 

[surftheiop]

The "in-kitchen" aspect sounds like it would be an awesome elective in some sort of system where every MS1 was required to take 1 elective and could choose from stuff like the cooking training, medical spanish, international health, medical law, etc.

Not sure how I would feel about having every single medstudent required to have the in-kitchen experience seeing as if its the sort of thing you thought was a waste of time you would probably just end up ruining the experience for everyone else.

 

[Medstudent1968]

As if doctors don't already wear enough hats. Tomorrow, they'll want physician baristas who are experts in shiatsu.

 

[bocanutz]

lets add some more stupid **** into the medical school curriculum.

+1000

 

[bocanutz]

Is it bad that the first image I had was of chefs in anatomy lab?

 

[alpinism]

Great Idea Tulane!

next we need:
-personal trainer class (might also add some yoga)
-massage therapy class (happy ending please!)
-meditation class (soo much negative energy here)
-sanitation/hygiene class (teach pts how to wash their balls)
-comedy/drama class (I believe in the healing power of laughter)
-safe sex class (anal trauma is no laughing matter)

missing anything?

 

[SpecterGT260]

culinary science




I long for the days when words actually had meaning and people werent slapping labels on everything for the benefit of associated connotations.

 

[CaptainSSO]

All doctors/doctors in training should already have healthy eatting and living as part of there lifestyle. Really sad when they invite 260lb+ dudes to become medical students in the first place. Obvious unhealthy is unhealthy.

Its horrific when I watch a doctor trying to treat depression and ignores the fact that the patient is 50-60lbs over weight. Especially when its child/teenage. Makes me rage so hard.

Yes, obesity is a moral problem!

Nevermind the fact the guy sitting on my left has two dozen donuts every weekend and has a six pack while the guy on my right eats a piece of cake and gains 5 pounds.

Nope, physiology and bad societal dietary recommendations play no part in this. It is a moral outrage! Damn obese the scrapie cheese.

 

[dr zaius]

This is why I laugh when others say that med school training is going to be shortened. The academic elite liberals who run medicine in ivory towers would never stand for that because as far as they're concerned there's always some BS feelgood liberal indoctrination that needs to be added.

How can you shorten med school when its an absolute necessity to teach students about racial diversity, ethnic diversity, socioeconomic diversity, general sociology, and a little cooking thrown in for good measure?

You're right. Having some basic understanding of cultural differences serves no purpose at all. Neither does gaining insight into healthy eating.

It took far less time for "dirty LIEbrals" to be shouted than I expected.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I have more hope for a Watson style machine to shift through the garbage of nutrition research than anything else.

Right now, you can find evidence for just about any lifestyle/diet out there. Want to load up on carbs and go no-fat? There are a thousand papers that will support your decision. Want to go low-carb, high-fat? Again, a thousand papers will back you up. And everything in-between.

There's simply no way to evaluate nutrition research because everyone has such crazy biases in the field. We literally need a computer to crunch the numbers, crunch the biochemistry and spit us out what is really optimal because we humans can't do that job.

 

[surftheiop]

I have more hope for a Watson style machine to shift through the garbage of nutrition research than anything else.

Right now, you can find evidence for just about any lifestyle/diet out there. Want to load up on carbs and go no-fat? There are a thousand papers that will support your decision. Want to go low-carb, high-fat? Again, a thousand papers will back you up. And everything in-between.

There's simply no way to evaluate nutrition research because everyone has such crazy biases in the field. We literally need a computer to crunch the numbers, crunch the biochemistry and spit us out what is really optimal because we humans can't do that job.

Although realistically for 90% of people out there, all that stuff probably doesn't truly matter at this point seeing as people are eating so poorly (and too much on average). Realistically if you could just magically force everybody to eat half portions of whatever they already eat then add on fruits/vegetables until they aren't hungry, that would eliminate a huge number of diet related issues we face with no real need for actual nutritional understanding. (For the sake of argument lets assume diabetic people would get some extra guidance)

 

[NickNaylor]

"For part of each day, first-year students at Tulane University School of Medicine will swap their lab coats for chefs' jackets. They'll change their outerwear because they'll be heading into the kitchen in a new program that's the first of its kind in an American medical school. This initiative, in which Tulane is working with a culinary school, is designed to make doctors aware of the importance of diet by showing them how to prepare the food they tell patients they should eat.

"Most doctors like me know nothing about nutrition," said Dr. Benjamin Sachs, the medical school's dean. "We lecture our patients to lose weight, and we have no idea how to prepare food. This is designed to teach future doctors about nutrition through culinary science." "

Full article here - http://www.nola.com/health/index.ssf/2012/07/tulane_university_medical_stud.html

I've seen arguments back and forth on SDN about whether medical students ought to learn more about nutrition, since this topic is so intimately tied to health. Our arguments usually fall along the lines of "medical education woefully underprepares students on this fundamental health topic" vs. "this is the job of dietitians, not physicians".

Now that a medical school is incorporating both Nutritional Knowledge (NK) and Nutritional Skills (NS) into the curriculum, what do you think? Is exchanging a white coat for a white apron going to produce a better chef resident? Or is Food Based Learning (FBL) just another obstacle that medical schools like to insert between a medical student and an efficient medical education? Should USDA Grades be a part of Preclinical Grades?

I would be genuinely pissed if I didn't know about this before committing to the school and it was required. Is it really that big of a deal? No, but this is obviously less about education and more about fulfilling someone's dream of medical "education."

(sent from my phone)

 

[patel2]

Sounds like a ******ed PR stunt by Tulane that will add zero value to the curriculum, coupled with the fact that MDs don't know anything about nutrition or healthy eating...I expect to see a lot of "low-fat" recipes being promoted as the healthy solution to obesity.

 

[throwawayaccnt]

Sounds like a ******ed PR stunt by Tulane that will add zero value to the curriculum, coupled with the fact that MDs don't know anything about nutrition or healthy eating...I expect to see a lot of "low-fat" recipes being promoted as the healthy solution to obesity.

Those were my impressions from hearing it first hand as a Tulane student last year. I was under the impression it was going to be an elective and certainly not a daily chore (either journalistic laziness or change of plan). I can't even imagine where'd they fit it into the 1st year schedule: before cadaveric dissections or after? How appetizing! Anyhow, doesn't every school have bs fillers?

Louisiana ranks as one of the most worst states in terms of obesity, right behind Mississippi iirc. It only seems logical that Tulane creates an image of trying to help solve this problem from the roots by trickling down healthy cooking and eating lessons.

In the end, our dean will look good. School will get good press. A few extra jobs will be created. Med students might pick up some cooking tips. And that's about it.

 

[engineeredout]

I like making my own Sushi.

 

[bomgd3]

Yes, obesity is a moral problem!

Nevermind the fact the guy sitting on my left has two dozen donuts every weekend and has a six pack while the guy on my right eats a piece of cake and gains 5 pounds.

Nope, physiology and bad societal dietary recommendations play no part in this. It is a moral outrage! Damn obese people and their gluttonous, ravenous appetites!

3500 kcal = 1 lb. Genetics does play a role, but you can't deny the law of conservation of mass. Input - output = accumulation.

And yes, this idea is idiotic. This is what happens when we recruit med students based on their fascinating life stories, rather than their competence at medicine.

 

[CaptainSSO]

3500 kcal = 1 lb. Genetics does play a role, but you can't deny the law of conservation of mass. Input - output = accumulation.

And yes, this idea is idiotic. This is what happens when we recruit med students based on their fascinating life stories, rather than their competence at medicine.

Who is denying the law of conservation of mass?

I'm not denying anything, you're just misapplying it.

 

[SpecterGT260]

over-simplification and misapplication of ideas on SDN? I am offended that you would even suggest such a thing

 

[notbobtrustme]

3500 kcal = 1 lb. Genetics does play a role, but you can't deny the law of conservation of mass. Input - output = accumulation.

And yes, this idea is idiotic. This is what happens when we recruit med students based on their fascinating life stories, rather than their competence at medicine.

We know what the input is (eg how much food you stuff down your piehole), but quantifying output is extremely difficult. We have a very dirty estimate based on daily activity, body size and age, but there's so much variability between people that this estimate is essentially worthless. The hormonal aspects of food are vastly underappreciated and this is where output varies greatest. The body isn't an internal combustion engine where the (in)efficiencies, inputs and outputs are known to 4 decimal places and yet we have this prevailing notion that the body is precisely this.

 

[Nymphicus]

I agree, this is a huge time waste. People who want to teach patients about diets will... those who don't... wont. Going to a kitchen isn't going to help.

Cooking elective? Sure!

Required classtime learning to "prepare food?" Please, please no.

I feel that while it's good to provide different opportunities, medical students should have only the minimum core required, and then be able to add on more in accordance to their interests and available time. Not have every this and that and now the kitchen sink (literally) forced upon them as if they are children and can't make their own independent decisions.

Edit: And lol..."culinary science."

 

[DeadCactus]

Sounds a lot more useful than the Kreb's cycle...

 

[STAT EKG]

When I first read the title I imagined a conversation between two Tulane administrators that went like:

Administrator One: We're out of white coats for the incoming med students
Administrator Two: ...You've gotta be friggin' kidding me. How is that even possible?
Administrator One: I don't know. But we're out.
Administrator Two: F it. We're wearing chef jackets.

 

[Miss Terious]

How exactly would they grade the students? Would it be based on how well they julienne vegetables? The biochemistry of spices? The chemistry behind steaming vegetables?

Sent from my SGH-T959V using SDN Mobile

 

[bomgd3]

We know what the input is (eg how much food you stuff down your piehole), but quantifying output is extremely difficult. We have a very dirty estimate based on daily activity, body size and age, but there's so much variability between people that this estimate is essentially worthless. The hormonal aspects of food are vastly underappreciated and this is where output varies greatest. The body isn't an internal combustion engine where the (in)efficiencies, inputs and outputs are known to 4 decimal places and yet we have this prevailing notion that the body is precisely this.

So why do the Caucasians in Canada, who are genetically similar to those in America, so much skinnier? They eat less and exercise more. Same thing can be said for the studies which show skinny Japanese people growing to American proportions pretty soon after they move here. Those who place the blame for obesity on genetics are ignoring the significant external factors that they are in control of.

 

[SpecterGT260]

So why do the Caucasians in Canada, who are genetically similar to those in America, so much skinnier? They eat less and exercise more. Same thing can be said for the studies which show skinny Japanese people growing to American proportions pretty soon after they move here. Those who place the blame for obesity on genetics are ignoring the significant external factors that they are in control of.

Do you have data to support this? I'm just curious if you know any real numbers or are just going with the flow that Americans are fat. I saw a breakdown by year of the obesity rates by state and I can tell you the fattest states are not those pop culture would suggest

 

[Mass Effect]

3500 kcal = 1 lb. Genetics does play a role, but you can't deny the law of conservation of mass. Input - output = accumulation.

And yes, this idea is idiotic. This is what happens when we recruit med students based on their fascinating life stories, rather than their competence at medicine.

With all due respect, inserting an argument centered around conservation of mass to discuss obesity is why we recruit med students based on fascinating life stories. A doctor who simply judges things by what's in black and white because that's all he/she knows isn't a doctor I'd want treating me. Life stories aren't PR stunts. They're a collection of skills, attitudes, and experiences that have helped to shape a person. To dismiss it as you have makes me wonder if you've ever been outside of the academic setting.

 

[bomgd3]

With all due respect, inserting an argument centered around conservation of mass to discuss obesity is why we recruit med students based on fascinating life stories. A doctor who simply judges things by what's in black and white because that's all he/she knows isn't a doctor I'd want treating me. Life stories aren't PR stunts. They're a collection of skills, attitudes, and experiences that have helped to shape a person. To dismiss it as you have makes me wonder if you've ever been outside of the academic setting.

Conservation of mass applies to obesity... your body won't conjure calories out of thin air. The best it can do is slow its metabolism to help compensate.

Plus, cold hard facts aside, I've found that many patients like this approach. I tell them that if they want to lose 1 lb/2 weeks, they should cut out 250 kcal a day, and give them a few examples i.e. cut out one bottle of soda, or two glasses of juice/milk, or whatever. I tell them to walk 20 min (1 mile) to help counteract the body's compensatory action.

Finally, here's a study comparing US to Canada obesity. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db56.htm. Americans ARE fat.

If you really want to learn to cook, though, feel free to write a $76,955 check for MS1 CoA at Tulane

 

[Nymphicus]

If you really want to learn to cook, though, feel free to write a $76,955 check for MS1 CoA at Tulane

I wonder if this is here to stay permanently or is just a "phase."