Medicine Vs. Dentistry: Give It Your Best Shot

[Drogba]

...

Dentistry
+ Done in 4 years (no residency) and start making $150k
+ Average dentist makes more than most primary care docs
+ Better lifestyle (easier hours) and little call
+ Less litigation

This may be true, and I've heard it repeatedly, but I would like to see actual evidence. According the BLS the median income for salaries dentists is ~136k (http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos072.htm) and the lowest paying specialty reported is FP that after 1 year in practice has a median income of ~156k. The BLS does not report private practice salaries and perhaps the incomes are much much higher and the distribution of dentists is heavily skewed towards private practice. However, the best data I can find does not support the assertion that an average dentist makes more than an average physician, annually. I would be more inclinded to believe the hourly wage of dentists is comparable or possibly higher on average than family practice...

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[dw2158]

The statistic I saw was per capita. Something around 3 per 1000 doctors and 2 per 1000 dentists.

ah, i see. thanks.

 

[shim0shim]

I don't know how many here have considered dentistry. I hate the idea of looking in mouths all day.

How about looking into people's private areas all day !?

 

[medicalmnt]

I thought about both but through my personal experiences I'd go with medicine. Mainly because I know I'll give it all I have and I'm more interested in doing research, not saying dentistry doesn't have the research aspect but I was never a teeth kind of guy.

I wouldn't go into any of these fields for the $. You can put the same amount of work for pre-med/MD and probably earn more after Harvard MBA and working 9-5 for goldman sachs or something.

Definitely the research and the patient care aspect has me sold for MD.
If I couldn't get into MD... I'll probably consider JD.

 

[shim0shim]

I thought about both but through my personal experiences I'd go with medicine. Mainly because I know I'll give it all I have and I'm more interested in doing research, not saying dentistry doesn't have the research aspect but I was never a teeth kind of guy.

I wouldn't go into any of these fields for the $. You can put the same amount of work for pre-med/MD and probably earn more after Harvard MBA and working 9-5 for goldman sachs or something.

Definitely the research and the patient care aspect has me sold for MD.
If I couldn't get into MD... I'll probably consider JD.

Dentistry also includes both of these aspects.

Bottom line: Do what you love and prefer.

 

[DocConk]

Who enjoys having appointments with their dentists? No one.

 

[shim0shim]

Who enjoys having appointments with their dentists? No one.

Haha. Alot of people, including myself. Many also strongly dislike visiting certain physicians - proven to me after having had shadowed 4 doctors in various regions. So, I hate to admit it but that argument is not convincing at all!

 

[AspiringERMD]

I would never want to be a dentist. I would be bored out of my mind. Teeth just don't excite me!

Incidentally, my primary care practitioner, who is excellent at what she does, first had a career as a dentist, and then decided to go to medical school.

 

[shim0shim]

I would never want to be a dentist. I would be bored out of my mind. Teeth just don't excite me!

Incidentally, my primary care practitioner, who is excellent at what she does, first had a career as a dentist, and then decided to go to medical school.

haha that's interesting that you said that. Because a family friend who is an internal medicine doctor is now studying to be a dentist

After shadowing 4 doctors and 2 dentists and getting to know them at a personal level, I continuously come to the consensus that dentistry is the better option for me for a multitude of reasons. The dentists that I shadowed enjoyed a better lifestyle (i.e 9-5, more vacation and family time), more autonomy, better overall income, no residency, no malpractice insurance issues, no reductions in reimbursements due to NP's taking over, no limit on number of patients they see, and have more time and assets to own many businesses other than a dental clinic.

The most common arguments we all hear is, "teeth does not interest me", or "who wants to look at teeth all day". But, this is not so convincing as many physicians deal with blood, private areas, and many "unpleasant" aspects of the body on a daily basis.

Both are highly rewarding professions, and either way they are both doctors. if you must know, I have applied to and been accepted to both dental school and medical school. So, I do have alot of appreciation for both professions. However, for the reasons above and other personal reasons, I believe I will choose dentistry.

Bottom line: Choose what you love!

 

[Flashfan]

My dentist today told me to stick with med school. Income was a primary issue. He said it took him ten years to make the money that his brother the doctor made his first year out of residency. He also has a lot of hassle with the business side. He complained about insurance companies, fickle patients and extreme competition in our area. With so many of the large employers changing their dental insurance every year he can often lose 1/4 of his patients each January unless he adds yet another insurance company. I had never really considered dentistry but that really sealed the deal for me. I am going to shadow his brother though to hear him complain how his brother the dentist has it made.

 

[shim0shim]

My dentist today told me to stick with med school. Income was a primary issue. He said it took him ten years to make the money that his brother the doctor made his first year out of residency. He also has a lot of hassle with the business side. He complained about insurance companies, fickle patients and extreme competition in our area. With so many of the large employers changing their dental insurance every year he can often lose 1/4 of his patients each January unless he adds yet another insurance company. I had never really considered dentistry but that really sealed the deal for me. I am going to shadow his brother though to hear him complain how his brother the dentist has it made.

Yes, you will most definitely hear the same complaints from the doctor brother as well. Doctors face malpractice insurance issues, hospital fees, etc.. Plus, if you own your own private practice, there will be the same issues with insurance companies, and hassle with the business side that you see with dentistry.

Not too sure about the income aspect though. Unless, the dentist brother is working at a small rural clinic, or the doctor brother is an ophthalmologist or orthopedic surgeon . But, usually dentists make six figures straight out of dental school, and on average dentists make more than many primary care doctors or some sub-specialties.

So, no career is perfect, and either one definitely has their downsides.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Dentistry would be the obvious better choice.......however, it isn't so certain now. All those rich dentists you see driving in their Porsches didn't have to pay 400k for tuition. It's not as 'sweet' of a gig now.(See what I did there? haha)

 

[Flashfan]

I can understand why my dentist talked about income. He was an associate that had to build up a practice, then when the owner was ready to retire he and another associate bought him out. We live in the Chicago region where there are a lot of dentists. A rural clinic would actually be better since there is little competition. In 45 miles there are hundreds of dentists here. Plus, he had to pay loans on dental school, upgrade equipment, get insurance (don't know why you think dentists don't have malpractice insurance). His brother is in Internal Medicine and has an office at the hospital. he has fewer employees and started with a ot of patients because at the time the insurance options in the area didn't have a lot of doctors accepting new patients.
Now my orthodontist makes bank and he has always encouraged me to go into his business. If I turn away from medicine I would probably be an optometrist. I would never be bored with the eye.

 

[shim0shim]

Dentistry would be the obvious better choice.......however, it isn't so certain now. All those rich dentists you see driving in their Porsches didn't have to pay 400k for tuition. It's not as 'sweet' of a gig now.(See what I did there? haha)

400k? Not sure where you are referring to, but Canada and Australia estimated tuition rates for dental school is approximately 200-250k. 400k would just be too much lol.

And yes, I agree with your "obvious better choice"

 

[shim0shim]

I can understand why my dentist talked about income. He was an associate that had to build up a practice, then when the owner was ready to retire he and another associate bought him out. We live in the Chicago region where there are a lot of dentists. A rural clinic would actually be better since there is little competition. In 45 miles there are hundreds of dentists here. Plus, he had to pay loans on dental school, upgrade equipment, get insurance (don't know why you think dentists don't have malpractice insurance). His brother is in Internal Medicine and has an office at the hospital. he has fewer employees and started with a ot of patients because at the time the insurance options in the area didn't have a lot of doctors accepting new patients.
Now my orthodontist makes bank and he has always encouraged me to go into his business. If I turn away from medicine I would probably be an optometrist. I would never be bored with the eye.

I see. That is definitely not the case from the countries that I am from (Australia and Canada). Dentists here are very happy. So, I guess that differs by region.

And yes, I feel you about the eyes Cuz, teeth don't seem to bore a lot of dentists out there! hehe.

 

[allantois]

I see. That is definitely not the case from the countries that I am from (Australia and Canada). Dentists here are very happy. So, I guess that differs by region.

And yes, I feel you about the eyes Cuz, teeth don't seem to bore a lot of dentists out there! hehe.

How are you from 2 different parts of the world?

Australia:

James Cook University Dental School:
a 5 year undergraduate degree
total tuition - $216,000 USD

University of Melbourne Dental School:
a 4 year graduate degree
total tuition $283,000 USD

University of Queensland Dental School:
a 5 year undergraduate degree
total tuition $241,000 USD

University of Sydney Dental School:
a 4 year graduate degree
total tuition - $244,000 USD

State of Florida:

Nova Southeastern:
total tuition - $220,000 (in state)

Lake Erie:
$192,000

University of Florida:
$164,000 (in state)

AND

median dentist salary in Australia is $91,600 AUD ($86,000 USD)

http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Dentist/Salary#by_Employer_Type

while median dentist salary in the US is $122,000
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Dentist/Salary

**The figures for both countries are for dentists with 0-5 years of experience

I'm not buying that the grass is greener in Oceania.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

My dentist today told me to stick with med school. Income was a primary issue. He said it took him ten years to make the money that his brother the doctor made his first year out of residency. He also has a lot of hassle with the business side. He complained about insurance companies, fickle patients and extreme competition in our area. With so many of the large employers changing their dental insurance every year he can often lose 1/4 of his patients each January unless he adds yet another insurance company. I had never really considered dentistry but that really sealed the deal for me. I am going to shadow his brother though to hear him complain how his brother the dentist has it made.

It's a good thing physicians don't have to deal with that stuff.

 

[shim0shim]

How are you from 2 different parts of the world?

Simple. Each parent from each country!

 

[shim0shim]

It's a good thing physicians don't have to deal with that stuff.

They do. Physicians have to worry and deal with lawsuits and malpractice insurance and they're patients insurance companies. So do dentists, but lawsuits are pretty much zero for them.

 

[allantois]

Simple. Each parent from each country!

Ok, I figured you are from Canada. If all is so well there, why are you applying as an international student?
And I have updated my original post.

 

[shim0shim]

Ok, I figured you are from Canada. If all is so well there, why are you applying as an international student?
And I have updated my original post.

If you must know, 2 reasons: 1. it has always been a long term goal for me to complete a degree overseas. 2. Canada and Australia have a reciprocal agreement for dentistry where practice rights are granted for graduates of either country.

And about your official post: Yes, the tuition is very high. If you look at my above post, I did mention it will cost on average 250k. Regardless, tuition cost should not be a major indicator for a career choice. Besides, tuition cost for medical school is more or less the same. And as far as income, as you mentioned median income 91k (AUD) or 122k (USD) for 0-5 years experience seems legit, and it is on average more than doctors who have 0-5 years of experience (because they are most likely in residency years after graduation). The grass is not greener in Oceania. The grass is greener with dentistry lol - for a multitude of reasons that can be found just by doing some research.

Like I said, I received acceptances to both medical school and dental school and love and appreciate both professions. After many years of research and experience, I chose the profession that makes me happier. And I think everyone should do the same!

Anyhow, I think I have said enough on here! Good luck to all of you and I hope you will be as happy with your choice as I am

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

400k? Not sure where you are referring to, but Canada and Australia estimated tuition rates for dental school is approximately 200-250k. 400k would just be too much lol.

And yes, I agree with your "obvious better choice"

Okay, but I don't live in Australia or Canada.......Most of the people in this thread are in the US, where 400k is a reality for many dental students.

 

[DocConk]

haha that's interesting that you said that. Because a family friend who is an internal medicine doctor is now studying to be a dentist

After shadowing 4 doctors and 2 dentists and getting to know them at a personal level, I continuously come to the consensus that dentistry is the better option for me for a multitude of reasons. The dentists that I shadowed enjoyed a better lifestyle (i.e 9-5, more vacation and family time), more autonomy, better overall income, no residency, no malpractice insurance issues, no reductions in reimbursements due to NP's taking over, no limit on number of patients they see, and have more time and assets to own many businesses other than a dental clinic.

The most common arguments we all hear is, "teeth does not interest me", or "who wants to look at teeth all day". But, this is not so convincing as many physicians deal with blood, private areas, and many "unpleasant" aspects of the body on a daily basis.

Both are highly rewarding professions, and either way they are both doctors. if you must know, I have applied to and been accepted to both dental school and medical school. So, I do have alot of appreciation for both professions. However, for the reasons above and other personal reasons, I believe I will choose dentistry.

Bottom line: Choose what you love!

I don't believe you. You sound a lot like someone trying to convince him/herself that dentistry isn't inferior to practicing medicine as a physician. I've never seen a pre-med student go onto a pre-dental forum and try to convince people that medicine is the way to go (probably because I've never looked, because I want to be a physician for reasons that don't need reassurance from anonymous internet people). Maybe it's because we're a little more comfortable with our sought-after aspirations. If you want to be a dentist, go be one. Why would you come here to talk about it? Get a life. And I don't believe that you were accepted into medical school.

 

[shim0shim]

I don't believe you. You sound a lot like someone trying to convince him/herself that dentistry isn't inferior to practicing medicine as a physician. I've never seen a pre-med student go onto a pre-dental forum and try to convince people that medicine is the way to go (probably because I've never looked, because I want to be a physician for reasons that don't need reassurance from anonymous internet people). Maybe it's because we're a little more comfortable with our sought-after aspirations. If you want to be a dentist, go be one. Why would you come here to talk about it? Get a life. And I don't believe that you were accepted into medical school.

First of all, relax and mature up! Yikes. Someone who spends time figuring out whether someone needs to get a life or not needs to get a life!

There are so many things wrong about your post, I do not even know where to begin. This is what this thread is about, if you haven't yet figured it out: "Medicine Vs. Dentistry". You should spend some time reading the above posts, there are pre-medicine and pre-dentistry students talking about what they aspire more and what they think suits them better. No one is trying to convince anyone here LOOOL. We are all here to talk about our "sought-after aspirations" - SDN is all about that. Inferior? That is a strong statement coming from a highly opinionated person. If you are into medicine, for its "superiority" (which is not the case at all), then good luck with that! Neither profession is more superior or inferior than the other. At the end of the day, its your choice, and I could care less what you decide.

Believe what you want to believe, since what you believe will make no difference to my life or any other nice members on here. I DID get accepted to both medical school and dental school. As a matter of fact, the process of getting into dental school was more challenging for me. And I am highly comfortable with the choice that I made which is why I chose to talk about it here and I do not need reassurance definitely from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

If I were you, I would do some more research about what SDN is about as well as what medicine/dentistry is all about. I have found you very rude, unhelpful and unpleasant to talk to and for that reason, I have ignored future posts from you.

 

[shim0shim]

Okay, but I don't live in Australia or Canada.......Most of the people in this thread are in the US, where 400k is a reality for many dental students.

Oh I see

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

I don't believe you. You sound a lot like someone trying to convince him/herself that dentistry isn't inferior to practicing medicine as a physician. I've never seen a pre-med student go onto a pre-dental forum and try to convince people that medicine is the way to go (probably because I've never looked, because I want to be a physician for reasons that don't need reassurance from anonymous internet people). Maybe it's because we're a little more comfortable with our sought-after aspirations. If you want to be a dentist, go be one. Why would you come here to talk about it? Get a life. And I don't believe that you were accepted into medical school.

What makes a Dentist 'inferior' to a Physician? (Oh, and BTW that isn't true, I just want to see how you will defend it.)

 

[amvet70]

Before you get enamored with average/median income of dentists keep in mind that dental practices tend to have very high overheads (60% or more of gross income) due to fixed expenses (rent, equipment, etc), upgraded equipment, lab fees, salaries (and FICA), insurance, variable expenses (disposables), continuing education, licensing fees, utilities, etc. This 60% or more is pretax, right off the top. And keep in mind that these expenses get paid first or you’re out of business. Don’t forget school loan repayments.

Also keep in mind that dentists can develop physical problems (neck, leg, back, hand, etc) from positions they contort themselves into over course of career in order to see what they’re doing.

As to post about dentists driving Porsches: it’s not hard for any MD or DDS to lease an expensive car, assuming you have decent credit.

It’s hard when you’re in your 20s, but try to choose a pathway that you hope will make you happy over the next 40-50 years.

 

[DocConk]

What makes a Dentist 'inferior' to a Physician? (Oh, and BTW that isn't true, I just want to see how you will defend it.)

Did I say that they are inferior? I simply stated that the person sounded like someone who is trying to convince herself that dentistry isn't inferior. You should read the post a few more times for clarity.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Did I say that they are inferior? I simply stated that the person sounded like someone who is trying to convince herself that dentistry isn't inferior. You should read the post a few more times for clarity.

It's not too much of a stretch to think that that is what you were implying.

Before you get enamored with average/median income of dentists keep in mind that dental practices tend to have very high overheads (60% or more of gross income) due to fixed expenses (rent, equipment, etc), upgraded equipment, lab fees, salaries (and FICA), insurance, variable expenses (disposables), continuing education, licensing fees, utilities, etc. This 60% or more is pretax, right off the top. And keep in mind that these expenses get paid first or you’re out of business. Don’t forget school loan repayments.

You know that the average income numbers are after overhead, right?

 

[maxilofacial]

Interesting about the MD/DMD. Haven't read all the posts so hoping this hasn't already been discussed to ridiculous lengths, but what kind of a career would that set someone up for? I don't know much of anything about dentistry or oral surgery...would it somehow combine these two?

Six years programs in OMFS will give you the MD.

 

[jaguar33]

First of all, relax and mature up! Yikes. Someone who spends time figuring out whether someone needs to get a life or not needs to get a life!

There are so many things wrong about your post, I do not even know where to begin. This is what this thread is about, if you haven't yet figured it out: "Medicine Vs. Dentistry". You should spend some time reading the above posts, there are pre-medicine and pre-dentistry students talking about what they aspire more and what they think suits them better. No one is trying to convince anyone here LOOOL. We are all here to talk about our "sought-after aspirations" - SDN is all about that. Inferior? That is a strong statement coming from a highly opinionated person. If you are into medicine, for its "superiority" (which is not the case at all), then good luck with that! Neither profession is more superior or inferior than the other. At the end of the day, its your choice, and I could care less what you decide.

Believe what you want to believe, since what you believe will make no difference to my life or any other nice members on here. I DID get accepted to both medical school and dental school. As a matter of fact, the process of getting into dental school was more challenging for me. And I am highly comfortable with the choice that I made which is why I chose to talk about it here and I do not need reassurance definitely from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

If I were you, I would do some more research about what SDN is about as well as what medicine/dentistry is all about. I have found you very rude, unhelpful and unpleasant to talk to and for that reason, I have ignored future posts from you.

What medical school were you accepted too? I thought I saw you in the underdog thread for this year and you don't have an MCAT score yet.

 

[amvet70]

My post above regarding overhead and net income stems from family gathering last month that included conversation with two uncles both with over 25 years in private practice of general dentistry. In part the conversation included discussion of incomes of new DDS/MDs. In their opinion and experiences with newly graduated associates, the associates generally do not have the verbal skills or clinical efficiencies that can generate the collected revenues minus high overhead that can justify paying them 6 digit incomes. It’s not that they will not develop their skills in time, they may. Both agreed that they simply do not let loose new DDSs on their practice’s patients just because they just got a new license in the mail. As associates of my uncles, uncles’ practice reputation that they have built up over years is on line. Uncles need to actually see their new associates abilities in practice. As they both indicated they’ve had to let some go fairly quickly. Also, DDSs, like MDs, are dealing with people who tend to be nervous. You just can’t send a new DDS into a patient with me DDS, you patient with problem, open, I fix kind of approach. DDS need to instill some confidence into patients and the newly graduated DDSs typically haven’t mastered the verbal skills needed to quickly allay patients concerns and fears about new DDS. So a simple procedure that might take 20 minutes, becomes an hour or more as new DDS verbally stumbles their way through the appt. Furthermore, according to uncles, a new DDS who might have completed say 50 crown procedures in 4 years in dental school is simply not as efficient as a DDS with 25 years of experience who does that many in a month. In addition dentistry is not immune to reimbursement squeezes of insurance companies.

As only a month into second year of residency I have to admit that looking back to when I started intern year I get what my uncles are saying. It’s amazing how one changes after often working 70-80 hours 6 days a week for a year as intern that you develop and grow in patient management/clinical efficiencies. The down side is that for the next few years as resident/fellow I’m stuck with low wages where new DDS has potential to grow income more quickly assuming they can develop the needed skills.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

It's not too much of a stretch to think that that is what you were implying.



You know that the average income numbers are after overhead, right?

Yeah, and online is just about the worst place to look for dental salaries. It's really funny that people think private practice Dentists make 150k!

 

[shim0shim]

What medical school were you accepted too? I thought I saw you in the underdog thread for this year and you don't have an MCAT score yet.

Hi jaguar33,

I got accepted to MSUCOM last year with an older MCAT score, but the school was not my top choice. I was studying to retake the MCAT this summer to try for MD schools and my top choice DO schools. However, I got into my top choice dental school recently and decided to go with that, as dentistry is my preferred career choice.

If you have any more questions feel free to send me a private message.

 

[jaguar33]

Hi jaguar33,

I got accepted to MSUCOM last year with an older MCAT score, but the school was not my top choice. I was studying to retake the MCAT this summer to try for MD schools and my top choice DO schools. However, I got into my top choice dental school recently and decided to go with that, as dentistry is my preferred career choice.

If you have any more questions feel free to send me a private message.

Gotcha, good luck!