Meharry and Howard Dental Schools

[ToothbrushBuddy]

School admissions is only a small part of what I was referring to. Historically, there was indeed a huge degree of discrimination against many non-whites, but especially blacks. Consequently, it was quite understandable that some institutions made an effort to combat this blatant racism by offering greater opportunities for minorities. Is this still the case today though? Or have we put so much emphasis on political correctness that it, at (increasingly frequent) times, is more of a societal blight than an instrument for the nobler purpose of its origins?

As for Meharry's selectivity, I have no problem with this statement, "They are looking for those average students who have volunteered in an underserved community or has a disadvantaged status" by yko0584. But how does this justify a racial preference? Can this not apply to any race? We'll say (whether true or not), @fatham878, that a majority of African Americans entering the dental field do indeed want to help the underserved. But let's expand our scope of examination to all university institutions, regardless of discipline (or beyond to a majority of sociopolitical and economic entities). A majority of careers are not aimed at helping the underserved. What then can partiality do in the name of fairness? I'm all about helping those who are "underserved" or are lacking financially, but this isn't limited to any one race. How far can we proceed before it isn't "fair" any longer? For example, a good friend of mine, who is very intelligent, upper middle class, and a minority, has nearly a full ride at her undergraduate school. $9,000+ of that/year is simply due to her "cultural diversity" (race) - unrelated to anything she has done aside from being born. Is this fair?

By all means, recruit those who seek to help the underserved. Offer assistance to those who wouldn't normally be able to afford an education. But beyond specific instances where it is actually applicable, please - don't show preference to some because of their race. We're all supposed to be equal as Americans, right?

Have you ever actually lived on an Indian reservation or ever lived in a ghetto? Do you even know what it is like to be disadvantaged since birth? To have every odd stacked against you since the day you were conceived? Do you know the oppression of poverty that many disadvantaged American minorities live in everyday? Yeah, I didn't think so...

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[shulk]

Remember that most dental schools will judge you based on your academic, interpersonal, and extracurricular merits. Yes, there are a few schools that make significant decisions about you based on your race or religious preferences, but the most powerful thing you can do to voice your disapproval of such practices is simply to not give any of your money to them; do not apply to or attend those schools.

 

[Phuhseeshus]

Have you ever actually lived on an Indian reservation or ever lived in a ghetto? Do you even know what it is like to be disadvantaged since birth? To have every odd stacked against you since the day you were conceived? Do you know the oppression of poverty that many disadvantaged American minorities live in everyday? Yeah, I didn't think so...

I don't have any idea - you're correct. But you don't have any reason to be angry with me. I said I fully support people who are underprivileged and in such conditions - I think it's great that schools and other institutions help them out. I'm displeased when schools give extra aid based solely on race/ethnic background when the individuals are not disadvantaged. Someone can be Native American or African American, or white for that matter - and be severely disadvantaged. Someone can also be Native American, African American, or white and have no disadvantage at all.

Why should any of those 3 groups get any preferential treatment if they're not at a disadvantage?

Let's give a drastic example:

If you're Beyonce, you're not disadvantaged.
If you're a poverty stricken African American living in the ghetto, you're at a disadvantage.

Should Beyonce's children (assuming she had college-aged kids) get preferential treatment? If so, why?

 

[ModifiedBass]

If you brought up Meharry and Howard, why not Loma Linda? I disagree with pretty much everything you have to say, but at least cover all the bases.

 

[MasterDental]

If you brought up Meharry and Howard, why not Loma Linda? I disagree with pretty much everything you have to say, but at least cover all the bases.

I was thinking the same thing. Lima Linda does the same thing but they select their class based on religion rather than race. The case of Loma Linda is even worse if you think about race vs just their Adventist religion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ferneezy]

Should Beyonce's children (assuming she had college-aged kids) get preferential treatment? If so, why?

the argument ostensibly put forth by the dental schools of meharry and howard would be: yes, they deserve to be in dental school (not going to use 'preferential treatment' as i find the premise it suggests silly). at the very least because there is a disproportionately lower percentage of african american practitioners of dentistry relative to the percentage of african americans in the US pop. they would support that by arguing said population (in general) would feel more comfortable seeing health professionals that are "more like them". and the idea of the profession of dentistry as a whole is to serve the patient and the public-at-large (ada code of conduct)...so churning out more of the kinds of dentists that more of the public wants to receive care from is a pretty big deal.

at any rate, there are two different uses of 'disadvantaged' floating around this thread that might be causing a little confusion.
first, i'll submit that if you are born in the US as a minority, regardless of urm status filtered by the healthcare education prism, you can be at some kind of a social/economic/educational disadvantage at the very least. i'm referring to anyone red, yellow, black, brown. doesn't matter. if you're not white, you have the potential to be 'disadvantaged'.
second, none of us can know your level of knowledge of the US dental app process given your reluctance to share, but the second kind of 'disadvantage' that schools carved a section of the application out for refers to anyone that may have been disadvantaged socially, economically, or educationally. it is race/ethnic agnostic. funny, that.

 

[thirstyscholar]

Funny how an associate of mine, coming from the 1% of Egyptian Wealth, got a full ride due to 'her URM' status.

 

[Ferneezy]

Funny how an associate of mine, coming from the 1% of Egyptian Wealth, got a full ride due to 'her URM' status.

is she a well trained and competent dentist?

 

[thirstyscholar]

is she a well trained and competent dentist?

Indeed. UCONN does not play around

 

[thirstyscholar]

Competent clinicians from Howard and Meharry sadly are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Ferneezy]

Indeed. UCONN does not play around

the dental school did its job.

Competent clinicians from Howard and Meharry sadly are the exception rather than the rule.

always wondered how this is measured. as a dentist please enlighten us how practitioners judge the abilities of their peers. or at least how you do.

 

[thirstyscholar]

always wondered how this is measured. as a dentist please enlighten us how practitioners judge the abilities of their peers. or at least how you do.

Usually D2s competently handle Class 3 restorations....

 

[fatham878]

Usually D2s competently handle Class 3 restorations....

And you are using one particular instance to sum up the entirety of a school's graduating dentists? I find it hard to believe that you know more than a few Meharry/Howard-graduated dentists and that everyone you have come into contact with is just unfit to be a dentist.

I am sure there are many Meharry/Howard grads that can "competently handle Class 3 restorations." You seem to hold some bias against the schools, and I am unsure why. Again, you belittle the school but give little evidence beyond vague statements that insult your peers and colleagues (if you are indeed a practicing dentist) that also worked their tails off for 4 years and passed the same exact boards as you did. I am guessing if you are a practicing dentist, you must be over your eyes in student loan debt for going to a school with a big name and found that in the real world that the average patient cares little for where you went to dental school.

Why come back to this thread and post again if you have nothing useful to post? You posted months ago a response to someone saying that the schools had merit with "It's not." I called you out then, but you ignored me. Not only have you ignored me, you have ignored the entire thread and continue to be antagonistic. So your associate got a full-ride and s/he is from the top 1% of Egyptian wealth. You said enough in your comment. The top ONE percent of Egyptian wealth. I am sure her situation is far from the norm. Way to go, you really proved your point with that example; the entire idea of URM is bunk thanks to your friend

I really don't expect a response from you, but I'll be waiting for some evidence to back up your claims of incompetency.

 

[yko0584]

I don't have any idea - you're correct. But you don't have any reason to be angry with me. I said I fully support people who are underprivileged and in such conditions - I think it's great that schools and other institutions help them out. I'm displeased when schools give extra aid based solely on race/ethnic background when the individuals are not disadvantaged. Someone can be Native American or African American, or white for that matter - and be severely disadvantaged. Someone can also be Native American, African American, or white and have no disadvantage at all.

Why should any of those 3 groups get any preferential treatment if they're not at a disadvantage?

Let's give a drastic example:

If you're Beyonce, you're not disadvantaged.
If you're a poverty stricken African American living in the ghetto, you're at a disadvantage.

Should Beyonce's children (assuming she had college-aged kids) get preferential treatment? If so, why?

LoL I think every school would give preferential treatment to Beyonce kids, if she had any old enough for dental school. It's called a more successful fundraiser for whatever school fund they need. It was a terrible scenario but I do understand what you are saying and I totally agree that rich African Americans should not be treated as a disadvantaged minority as their options are unlimited during their education. If anything they should be strict on them, with all the resources they have, they should have much higher stats!

 

[Phuhseeshus]

@yko0584

I'm glad you understand my example, but even if wealthy they should be held to equal (not higher) standards (not sure whether you were being sarcastic or not).

But let's be real... Beyonce's family would definitely get preferential treatment lol

 

[yko0584]

@yko0584

I'm glad you understand my example, but even if wealthy they should be held to equal (not higher) standards (not sure whether you were being sarcastic or not).

But let's be real... Beyonce's family would definitely get preferential treatment lol

I know if I was Dean, I would give them an early invite as long as Beyonce comes with them. Haha no actually, I do believe rich people should be looked at tough. They really have no reason as to why they would do bad in school. They can get a private tutor, they don't have to work and all they have to do is learn the information. Plus, rich people usually make contributions to schools to where they are most likely guaranteed an acceptance.

 

[ModifiedBass]

I know if I was Dean, I would give them an early invite as long as Beyonce comes with them. Haha no actually, I do believe rich people should be looked at tough. They really have no reason as to why they would do bad in school. They can get a private tutor, they don't have to work and all they have to do is learn the information. Plus, rich people usually make contributions to schools to where they are most likely guaranteed an acceptance.

Have you forgotten about Affluenza???

 

[rnco]

Jeez, you'd think that being poor was a serious handicap. Being poor is supposed to suck, just like minimum wage, it's supposed to give you incentive to work harder. Oh well, keep preaching about "gibs muh dat" handouts and zero accountability…………

Only in america…enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[fatham878]

Jeez, you'd think that being poor was a serious handicap. Being poor is supposed to suck, just like minimum wage, it's supposed to give you incentive to work harder. Oh well, keep preaching about "gibs muh dat" handouts and zero accountability…………

Only in america…enjoy it while it lasts.

Again, an off-topic post that adds nothing to the conversation at hand. In addition, you continue to ignore any legitimate responses to your opinions.

I would go into a discussion about the post and everything wrong with it (and you), but I fear that you will again run away from it and it'll be a waste of my time. So instead, I will just say this... Would you want to switch lives with anybody you are mocking? You make their lives out to be carefree and oh so grand, but I would bet that you would never want to be in their shoes.

 

[thirstyscholar]

I am sure there are many Meharry/Howard grads that can "competently handle Class 3 restorations." You seem to hold some bias against the schools, and I am unsure why. Again, you belittle the school but give little evidence beyond vague statements that insult your peers and colleagues (if you are indeed a practicing dentist) that also worked their tails off for 4 years and passed the same exact boards as you did. I am guessing if you are a practicing dentist, you must be over your eyes in student loan debt for going to a school with a big name and found that in the real world that the average patient cares little for where you went to dental school.

Your bolded part is true

Why come back to this thread and post again if you have nothing useful to post? You posted months ago a response to someone saying that the schools had merit with "It's not." I called you out then, but you ignored me. Not only have you ignored me, you have ignored the entire thread and continue to be antagonistic. So your associate got a full-ride and s/he is from the top 1% of Egyptian wealth. You said enough in your comment. The top ONE percent of Egyptian wealth. I am sure her situation is far from the norm. Way to go, you really proved your point with that example; the entire idea of URM is bunk thanks to your friend

I really don't expect a response from you, but I'll be waiting for some evidence to back up your claims of incompetency.

Go check specialization and board pass rates. Proof in the pudding as they say.

Regarding my associate, I merely point out the flaw in the logic that schools with 3.0 GPA/17 DAT present in 'selection'. As above posters mention, Beyonce's child will get 'URM' status despite flying to Oxford on weekends for a private tutor. Therein lies the problem.

In theory communism works.

 

[ModifiedBass]

As above posters mention, Beyonce's child will get 'URM' status despite flying to Oxford on weekends for a private tutor. Therein lies the problem.

In theory communism works.

So you're saying that because a small percentage of individuals can take advantage of the system, that those that are socioeconomically disadvantaged shouldn't receive support? Solid argument, that.

 

[thirstyscholar]

So you're saying that because a small percentage of individuals can take advantage of the system, that those that are socioeconomically disadvantaged shouldn't receive support? Solid argument, that.

Show me where socioeconomically disadvantaged are indeed getting support.

Unless of course, you're assuming that all non-Caucasian and Asian Americans are somehow socioeconomically disadvantaged.

 

[ModifiedBass]

Show me where socioeconomically disadvantaged are indeed getting support.

Unless of course, you're assuming that all non-Caucasian and Asian Americans are somehow socioeconomically disadvantaged.

The goal of Meharry and Howard is to provide more opportunities to disadvantaged individuals willing to serve in disadvantaged areas. The majority of the disadvantaged individuals they accept are URM, but not in entirety. Historically, and currently, there is a socioeconomic disparity between Caucasian Americans and URMs so they are attempting to relieve some of this disparity.

 

[thirstyscholar]

The goal of Meharry and Howard is to provide more opportunities to disadvantaged individuals willing to serve in disadvantaged areas. The majority of the disadvantaged individuals they accept are URM, but not in entirety. Historically, and currently, there is a socioeconomic disparity between Caucasian Americans and URMs so they are attempting to relieve some of this disparity.

Prove that part.

Contrary to the Mission Statements you posted, minority does not make a disadvantaged student.

 

[ModifiedBass]

Just pointing out that statistically, URMs have a lower SES than Caucasians. You are right in that the students they accept may not be those specific disadvantaged individuals, but they are also trying to increase the overall practicing percentage of URMs; there are multiple articles (many are through the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation if you want to search) showing an attempt of many dental schools to raise the statistically low percentage of practicing URMs nationally. Howard and Meharry are historically black colleges so I see no wrong in them showing preferential treatment to URMs, they are private schools after all and may choose their students by the means they deem fit for their institutions.

 

[thirstyscholar]

Just pointing out that statistically, URMs have a lower SES than Caucasians. You are right in that the students they accept may not be those specific disadvantaged individuals, but they are also trying to increase the overall practicing percentage of URMs; there are multiple articles (many are through the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation if you want to search) showing an attempt of many dental schools to raise the statistically low percentage of practicing URMs nationally. Howard and Meharry are historically black colleges so I see no wrong in them showing preferential treatment to URMs, they are private schools after all and may choose their students by the means they deem fit for their institutions.

Perfectly fine to let 'disadvantaged' students gain admission. My point merely highlights that socio-economic lines make a more rational data point than race.

 

[sgv]

Objectively, they're schools that have an incoming class of low gpa and dat. Lower first time board pass rate. Low specializing rate. If you look at what schools receive the most complaints from its own students, it's these two schools. If I wanted as painless an experience of dental school as possible, I don't think I would pick these two schools. When it comes to any objective ranking, be it GPA, DAT, research funding, and clinical instruction hours, these two schools are well below the majority of schools. But they were never trying to be the most selective, highly ranked research schools in the first place.

 

[thirstyscholar]

Objectively, they're schools that have an incoming class of low gpa and dat. Lower first time board pass rate. Low specializing rate. If you look at what schools receive the most complaints from its own students, it's these two schools.

Ignoring the obvious for the moment. Will say that my most prepared peers came from state schools. Looking at you UCONN and Stony Brook...

 

[thirstyscholar]

PENN, Case, and Columbia round out the privates for those wondering

 

[Dentalguy8621]

I have a difficult time understanding why predents say things like "man! sucks that the majority of people at these 2/65 dental schools in the US focus more on URM!!"

While the other 63/65 dental schools have traditionally a major percentage of non URM.

This stuff is tired. Stop.

 

[thirstyscholar]

I have a difficult time understanding why predents say things like "man! sucks that the majority of people at these 2/65 dental schools in the US focus more on URM!!"

While the other 63/65 dental schools have traditionally a major percentage of non URM.

This stuff is tired. Stop.

Come back and tell us how you feel once you get licensed.

 

[Dentalguy8621]

Come back and tell us how you feel once you get licensed.

Yeah most definitely.