MFT via CIIS vs. PsyD via The Wright Institute

[oesie]

Hello,

I need some help with making a decission.

I am admitted to the PsyD program of The Wright Institute (Berkeley) and I am also admitted to a Masters of Integral Counselling program at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) in San Francisco (which fulfills all the requirements to peruse licensing as a MFT or LPCC).

I am a non-traditional student – I am already 42 and I come from Austria (Europe) but I live currently in France. I got my BSc in England (from an accredited institution) via distance study.

It is my dream to study in the US and I hope that I will be able to stay there after my studies (I know that this will be hard especially as a psychologist or therapist). I am unfortunately not compatible for a PhD (I have no research experience) or a program which requests the GRE. I can finance a Master’s degree fully but for a doctoral degree I would need to go into depth (the amount of depth depends on the strength of the dollar and of course how long it will take to finish but I am currently estimating around 50k). I am aware that I need an American co-signer to get a bank loan in the US.

I read many threads on this forum about PsyD’s, The Wright Institute (being called a diploma mill), the internship crisis and how to be compatible for an internship. I am aware of the Wright Institute’s low match-rate for APA approved internships (35%) and I am aware that having a non-APA accredited internship is a big disadvantage when looking for work. I am aware that I cannot apply for VA’s or government positions as a foreigner. My ultimate goal is to be a psychotherapist in private practice but I would also like to have other options (such as working in hospitals, as a teacher or being credible as a writer). I am passionate about clinical psychology and would like to get a thorough education as a practitioner (I am concerned that a masters is not enough).

A big concern is also where I can work if I cannot stay in the US. In France and in Austria, it seems to be easier to have a PsyD recognized, since a Masters in Counseling does not exist in those two countries. There seems to be no way that I can work in Austria as a Psychotherapist with either degree (this means that I will close the door to my home country, maybe indefinitely). In England, an US masters is most likely recognized but I am not sure about the PsyD. As you can maybe tell, I am geographically flexible (this also applies to finding an internship in the US).

I have some open questions:

Is it possible for an international student to obtain a PAID internship (not just theoretically but also practically)?

I hear it is even harder for international students to find an internship and that may sites discriminate against international students. Is that true? Does that also apply to being older?

Does anybody know international graduates who managed to find clinical work in the US/in California (with a H1B visa rather than marriage)?

Is it more likely to find work in the US/in California with a counseling masters or with a PsyD?

I have differing information about remuneration for work with the two degrees. Some write, that PsyD earn hardly more in private practice than MFT’s or LPCC’s? True? I am not in it for the money but I will have to think about if/how I can pay my depth back.

Does anyone know anything about the reputation of the CIIS Masters of Integral Counseling program?

Anyone who attended The Wright Institute or CIIS (master’s program)?

Any international students on here?

Any advice?

Thank you!!!!

Oesie

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[cara susanna]

Is it more likely to find work in the US/in California with a counseling masters or with a PsyD?

The situation seems pretty bad for both, from what I've heard on these boards. I can say with certainty that the market in California seems pretty bad for PsyDs, especially if you're looking in the larger metropolitan areas.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

CA is probably the most saturated state in the country in regard to therapists and more specifically psychologists. If you go live in a rural community in the mountains…less competition, but in LA, SF, SD, etc…absolutely flooded.

 

[eeor1006]

As an international student who obtained H1b working as LPC I feel like I should chime in. To answer your questions,

Is it possible for an international student to obtain a PAID internship (not just theoretically but also practically)?
If you mean internship at master's level, I can tell you it is very, very hard. I completed my MS in counseling at a well regarded and connected university and I have never heard of anyone who secured a paid internship (don't know about school counseling people). Most of my classmates were offered full-time employment by their internship sites though.

I hear it is even harder for international students to find an internship and that may sites discriminate against international students. Is that true? Does that also apply to being older?
I think this depends on the area, school, your perferred setting and population etc.. In my experience, it is not significantly harder for international students to find an internship. All international students in my program who applied for internship in US obtained one more more internship.

Does anybody know international graduates who managed to find clinical work in the US/in California (with a H1B visa rather than marriage)?
I know 4 (myself included) are/were working as clinicians via H1b, 2 LPCs and 2 LCSWs.

Is it more likely to find work in the US/in California with a counseling masters or with a PsyD?
Don't know enough to answer this. Sorry.

I have differing information about remuneration for work with the two degrees. Some write, that PsyD earn hardly more in private practice than MFT’s or LPCC’s? True? I am not in it for the money but I will have to think about if/how I can pay my depth back.
If you want to do private practice, you will need a Visa that allows you to work legally in US. You can't sponsor yourself H1b. I do know a LCSW who obtained H1b and green card eventually working for a community agency and do private practice part-time. To run a successful private practice needs much more than good clinical skills. It is a business and business acumen matters more than the type of license you hold. I can't remember how many times I was called "Dr. XX" by my clients and case workers.

Does anyone know anything about the reputation of the CIIS Masters of Integral Counseling program?
Another I don't know.

Anyone who attended The Wright Institute or CIIS (master’s program)?

Any international students on here?
There must be more here on SDN. Feel free to let me know if you have another questions.

 

[oesie]

Thank you very much for your answers. This is most helpful!

 

[LAPsyGuy]

I can say with certainty that the market in California seems pretty bad for PsyDs, especially if you're looking in the larger metropolitan areas.

Based on what data? Not a challenge, just want to know.

 

[cara susanna]

Based on what data? Not a challenge, just want to know.

Just the number of unpaid post-docs and posts on SDN about it. Not the best evidence, I know. I may be trying to lower my expectations because I'll be moving there and I like to be pessimistic about things.

 

[LAPsyGuy]

Just the number of unpaid post-docs and posts on SDN about it. Not the best evidence, I know. I may be trying to lower my expectations because I'll be moving there and I like to be pessimistic about things.

Understood. I'm right behind you. I firmly believe good clinicians find good work. I'm more on the optimistic side.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Just the number of unpaid post-docs and posts on SDN about it. Not the best evidence, I know. I may be trying to lower my expectations because I'll be moving there and I like to be pessimistic about things.

Don't worry. The market might be flooded with practitioners, but from what I know about the area, there is plenty of work to go around and the cream will always rise to the top. It is more competitive, for sure, and you won't be just competing with grads from diploma mills either. There are some good schools and good psychologists in California. That is one reason that I was okay with leaving. I feel confident that I could compete in Cali if we had to move back, but am glad that I don't have to. Good luck with the move.